And in Japan and South Korea, there are providers offering 100Mbps for the equivalent of 20 euros per month.
I know this. But I left someone who knows the exact picture to show up and speak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak
Are you feeling a little less superior yet? What's your point?
Hey, no need to get angry. My point is very simple: what is the country where you are living? I just ask this simple question. It is not a matter of superiority or inferiority but of curiosity, since you cited speeds of 5 Mbps for the last ten(!) years. Is this bad to ask? Sorry if you took offense, I don't meant it.
Time Warner isn't the only provider in the US. Neither is cable the only real option for broadband anymore. For a decade the RBOCs dragged their feet for various reasons. They've stopped dragging their feet.
As I said, it really doesn't matter what you believe. You only need to look at their financial statements to see the level of investment into buildouts. Its all public.
Would companies lie in their financial statements? Hell, yeah! Those things are damn near worthless. How many times have we seen articles recently about Apple, Pixar, Dell, Disney, HP, etc. having to restate earnings or having stock options or other accounting problems? Even when it's completely legal, it's often the result of some very creative accounting that needs professionals to decipher. Ask former MCI or Enron employees how useful financial statements are.
Quote:
6M is a significant number for just one competitor rolliing out fiber to the premises over the last 3-4 years. NYC is a later build out than Northern Virginia and the DC area and you should see more coverage through the next couple years. Crest Lofts on Wall Street is getting up to 50Mbps service and the NYC build out will be at the 50MBps max vs the 30MBps max in the earlier locations.
Your argument seems almost completely rooted in web-based research. You can't believe everything you read on the net. I'll take the real world any time. You can quote as many abstract numbers as you want. Reality says almost nobody I know within a three-mile radius can get FiOS.
Quote:
And you're so stuck on the 90s and how the RBOCs essentially sat on thier broadband technology until they crushed the CLECs and got more favorable regulation before they invested billions into their networks. The RBOCs, for all their other faults, do have a lot of money and when they decide to deploy they can in a big way. 2000 trucks in Northern Virginia laying fiber and connecting them to homes. For a year they blanketed the area laying fiber.
Do you think Warner would have given you 10Mbps if they weren't watching Comcast, Cox and Adelphia lose share to FiOS? The fact that your 10Mbps is "fake" is because of the underlying limitations of DOCSIS 1.1 and 2.0. Limitations NOT present in FTTP.
Its not the late 90s anymore.
Gee, ya think? And yet it was well after the late ’90s before Time Warner finally upgraded. They didn't upgrade in 2001 or 2002 or even 2005. It was late 2006. And my 10Mbps is not "fake." I already said that with some servers and especially using multiple servers, I can max it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB
Hey, no need to get angry. My point is very simple: what is the country where you are living? I just ask this simple question. It is not a matter of superiority or inferiority but of curiosity, since you cited speeds of 5 Mbps for the last ten(!) years. Is this bad to ask? Sorry if you took offense, I don't meant it.
Pax. It has been noted in more than a few publications that, for supposedly the wealthiest, most technologically advanced nation on Earth, the US is ironically very far behind some other countries in terms of broadband speed and availability, thanks in no small part to the limited competition.
Pax. It has been noted in more than a few publications that, for supposedly the wealthiest, most technologically advanced nation on Earth, the US is ironically very far behind some other countries in terms of broadband speed and availability, thanks in no small part to the limited competition.
I see. I knew that there were some problems but not at this point. Perhaps apart competition the geographical distribution of the population could play a role too. And if so, this is difficult to circumvent. \
i dont know why but dropping the prce that £26 has made it look a WHOLE lot more attractive to me... if it wasnt so sunny here, if i wasnt up to my neck in house maintenance (building a courtyard out the back then redoing the kitchen ceiling) id be very tempted.. i AM very tempted... 6 months ago id have been all over this !
unless the summer turns out REALLY bad, i think i MIGHT just wait till GTA4 comes out
But then again, I don't see what people see in the AppleTV thingie. Go figure.
ive my mini hooked up to the TV.. its one of the best things ive done, apart from actually BUYING a mac in the first place
so i have no need for an Apple TV
or so i thought
but then one day recently the obvious dawned on me
the TV room has a (not so) great tendancy to be cold in the winter, now i can keep te heating on, and thats ok, but costly.. considering the kitchen/living room has a range cooker on 24/7 in the winter.. so im gonna go LCD in there and buy an Apple TV to stream all the movies and series i have on HDD (about to go up to 1.8 Terrabytes worth any day now)
Therefore, even 10:1 sales ratio at the moment means nothing.... when you compare 10 units to 1 units...when the whole market consist of gazillion......
i could be flippant and roll my eyes and say that even 10:1 not being a good enough indicator for you is no surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac
It will probably get even more complicated once the internet download service becomes more popular.....
that i can agree with , it will be very interesting if players like Apple can get enough sales and enough movie VARIETY and sell enough Apple TVs... but its still all if,if,if
so really all you or i can say is... we cant predict the future.
so we rely on the scant but GROWING evidence of volume sales... just EXACTLY like we will in terms of looking at movie sales from the likes of iTunes and of the Apple TV. {which i now realise i NEED!! go figure }
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac
Since good 480p source upconverted with good video processor would look near HD quality
wow... i want to write something bombastic and overblown in response to that... but i think you may be (from the stuff ive read on this thread and others) quite alone in saying that
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac
Anyway, as of right now, every format is a potential winner and a loser....... So, the current BD or HD sales figures don't mean jack other than the periodical progress indicator of long long long format war to come.
and that was my point in asking you WHAT is the ratio YOU would consider that BD is outselling HD-DVD by would be the indicator that the war between the two formats (only the two) is over? ie not CURRENT but future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac
I'm sure there are many other things you don't understand, including myself
mmm...almost a snide comment, but yeah im sure i could figure out one or two things i dont understand... cant we all?
Is there anyone more stubborn than a Mac user in computing (well maybe a linux user haha). I'll be honest with you I love to discuss topics with you fellas. Since most of us agree on Mac stuff there has to be something to be disagreeable about I admit that the war for me will effectively be over next year. Win/Lose/Draw I'm finding some way to get both formats in my home. Right now I'm more concerned with getting one HD player and then getting a decent but not fantastic LCD HDTV and a decent HDMI AVR (which is a freaking struggle...HDMI blows). I'm also looking at completing my 5.1 surround. I'm thinking about either a HSU or AVS 10" sub.
Holy shat have you guys into Home Theater checked out the Audyssey MultEQ hardware? www.audyssey.com It's ran by Tomlinson Holman (of THX...Tomlinson Holmans Experiment) fame. It's spendy at $2450 MRSP ....
Well, we will see who wins. I honestly don't care at this point, though I guess since I have a PS3 I'd rather see Blu-Ray. I own the movie that came with it and thats all. I have two games. As long as I can by games for another 5 years, I really don't care though. I'll by a freestanding player eventually anyway, probably when I upgrade my receiver (I don't even have surround now).
That's a good segue to the audio portion. I've certainly heard of Audyssey. I've been looking at the receiver end of things and I'm convinced that when the time comes, I'm going with a Denon. It'll be another year at least until I go that route..but when I do I'll invest $2000 in the receiver and at least an other $1000 in the speakers. I've been looking at the Denon 4306 http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/2243.asp
Pricing alert!.... HD-DVD player, HD-A2 now priced at $299 with 5 free HD-DVD rebate at amazon. Also, some people got great deal at local Circuit City, now promoting HD-A2 with free 4 HD-DVD movies.... the promo price for HD-A2 is around $230, but you need to pick up 4 HD-DVD movies to add and comes up around $350 out the door. I believe you can also get the toshiba's 5 free HD-DVD rebate along with CC deal. So... for about $350, you get 9 HD-DVD movies and a HD-A2 player.... Not a bad deal at all, even when you're just looking into getting a good upconverting SD-DVD player.
That's a good segue to the audio portion. I've certainly heard of Audyssey. I've been looking at the receiver end of things and I'm convinced that when the time comes, I'm going with a Denon. It'll be another year at least until I go that route..but when I do I'll invest $2000 in the receiver and at least an other $1000 in the speakers. I've been looking at the Denon 4306 http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/2243.asp
I love Denon products. However, I recently upgraded my entire home theater and I ended going with the Onkyo. And I'm extremely happy and impressed with Onkyo's products. Give them a look.
I see. I knew that there were some problems but not at this point. Perhaps apart competition the geographical distribution of the population could play a role too. And if so, this is difficult to circumvent. \
The ISPs have been using that excuse for years, too. And yet the fact remains that NYC and Tokyo, both with comparable population density, do not have comparable broadband speeds available to residents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac
Pricing alert!.... HD-DVD player, HD-A2 now priced at $299 with 5 free HD-DVD rebate at amazon. Also, some people got great deal at local Circuit City, now promoting HD-A2 with free 4 HD-DVD movies.... the promo price for HD-A2 is around $230, but you need to pick up 4 HD-DVD movies to add and comes up around $350 out the door. I believe you can also get the toshiba's 5 free HD-DVD rebate along with CC deal. So... for about $350, you get 9 HD-DVD movies and a HD-A2 player.... Not a bad deal at all, even when you're just looking into getting a good upconverting SD-DVD player.
I see more HD-DVD rush coming.....
It's just amazing. When Blu-ray puts its discs on sale, some people say it's desperation. When HD DVD puts its discs on sale, the same people say it's a good deal. Especially when you have to buy those discs a the exact same time you buy the player, and from a limited selection if it's at a bricks and mortar retailer. It couldn't possibly be a ploy to get disc sales figures up, could it? Noooo, of course not.
I love Denon products. However, I recently upgraded my entire home theater and I ended going with the Onkyo. And I'm extremely happy and impressed with Onkyo's products. Give them a look.
Yeah, I'm familiar with them. Right now though, Denon clearly leads the pack with features, particularly how they handle video processing. Onkyo makes a good product though, no doubt.
The ISPs have been using that excuse for years, too. And yet the fact remains that NYC and Tokyo, both with comparable population density, do not have comparable broadband speeds available to residents.
It's just amazing. When Blu-ray puts its discs on sale, some people say it's desperation. When HD DVD puts its discs on sale, the same people say it's a good deal. Especially when you have to buy those discs a the exact same time you buy the player, and from a limited selection if it's at a bricks and mortar retailer. It couldn't possibly be a ploy to get disc sales figures up, could it? Noooo, of course not.
I didn't read that as the discs being on sale, just the 5 free discs that you've always gotten. I read that as the player being on sale with qualifying full price disc purchase.
Hm... Best is rated 82 and the wost is 79.... The expert AV reviewers from PCworld think that Sammy BD-P1000 is the best player over even the PS3?... Well.... that what the experts say....
i wonder... do all those 5 free HD-DUD discs add up to total discs "sold"??
i wonder..
I'm sure they could, if they wanted to. If Sony does it.... why the hell not?... LOL. Kidding aside, sales numbers at this point is just too small to be significant. Once the sales numbers of both formats together come close to maybe 10% of the whole, then the numbers would have little more meaning.
I agree with bitemymac that the first three months of 2007 sales figures mean little as both format camps seem to be in this for the long haul and are willing to loose money in whatever amounts necessary to keep their format viable.
SDW2001, you might be happier spending $1000?1500 on a receiver and the remainder of the $3000 on speakers. Are you going to go 5.1 or 7.1?
Northgate, I have no experience with Denon, but from I've read they're a bitch to set up. You might want to read the receiver board on avsform, Yamaha is another brand to consider, as are the Pioneer Elites; however the Elites seem to be suffering from a firmware problem that requires them to be taken to a service center.
Hm... Best is rated 82 and the wost is 79.... The expert AV reviewers from PCworld think that Sammy BD-P1000 is the best player over even the PS3?... Well.... that what the experts say....
erm... {faux outrage} cant you even get THAT right
the bottom rated "player" is 72 the 360 and above that... its 75 where did you get 79 ??
erm... {faux outrage} cant you even get THAT right
the bottom rated "player" is 72 the 360 and above that... its 75 where did you get 79 ??
oops... I only looked at the top 5.... the banner lost me. Anyway, you're missing the point, where the reviews were done by the reputable expert AV reviewer who works for PCworld? No... Then, what does that informatioin worth?....... it's waste of time. Just go reference pcworld reviewer's recommendations to the reviews done by the real experts...... then reply back if you'd like.
Comments
And in Japan and South Korea, there are providers offering 100Mbps for the equivalent of 20 euros per month.
I know this. But I left someone who knows the exact picture to show up and speak.
Are you feeling a little less superior yet? What's your point?
Hey, no need to get angry. My point is very simple: what is the country where you are living? I just ask this simple question. It is not a matter of superiority or inferiority but of curiosity, since you cited speeds of 5 Mbps for the last ten(!) years. Is this bad to ask?
Time Warner isn't the only provider in the US. Neither is cable the only real option for broadband anymore. For a decade the RBOCs dragged their feet for various reasons. They've stopped dragging their feet.
As I said, it really doesn't matter what you believe. You only need to look at their financial statements to see the level of investment into buildouts. Its all public.
Would companies lie in their financial statements? Hell, yeah! Those things are damn near worthless. How many times have we seen articles recently about Apple, Pixar, Dell, Disney, HP, etc. having to restate earnings or having stock options or other accounting problems? Even when it's completely legal, it's often the result of some very creative accounting that needs professionals to decipher. Ask former MCI or Enron employees how useful financial statements are.
6M is a significant number for just one competitor rolliing out fiber to the premises over the last 3-4 years. NYC is a later build out than Northern Virginia and the DC area and you should see more coverage through the next couple years. Crest Lofts on Wall Street is getting up to 50Mbps service and the NYC build out will be at the 50MBps max vs the 30MBps max in the earlier locations.
Your argument seems almost completely rooted in web-based research. You can't believe everything you read on the net. I'll take the real world any time. You can quote as many abstract numbers as you want. Reality says almost nobody I know within a three-mile radius can get FiOS.
And you're so stuck on the 90s and how the RBOCs essentially sat on thier broadband technology until they crushed the CLECs and got more favorable regulation before they invested billions into their networks. The RBOCs, for all their other faults, do have a lot of money and when they decide to deploy they can in a big way. 2000 trucks in Northern Virginia laying fiber and connecting them to homes. For a year they blanketed the area laying fiber.
Do you think Warner would have given you 10Mbps if they weren't watching Comcast, Cox and Adelphia lose share to FiOS? The fact that your 10Mbps is "fake" is because of the underlying limitations of DOCSIS 1.1 and 2.0. Limitations NOT present in FTTP.
Its not the late 90s anymore.
Gee, ya think? And yet it was well after the late ’90s before Time Warner finally upgraded. They didn't upgrade in 2001 or 2002 or even 2005. It was late 2006. And my 10Mbps is not "fake." I already said that with some servers and especially using multiple servers, I can max it out.
Hey, no need to get angry. My point is very simple: what is the country where you are living? I just ask this simple question. It is not a matter of superiority or inferiority but of curiosity, since you cited speeds of 5 Mbps for the last ten(!) years. Is this bad to ask?
Pax. It has been noted in more than a few publications that, for supposedly the wealthiest, most technologically advanced nation on Earth, the US is ironically very far behind some other countries in terms of broadband speed and availability, thanks in no small part to the limited competition.
Pax. It has been noted in more than a few publications that, for supposedly the wealthiest, most technologically advanced nation on Earth, the US is ironically very far behind some other countries in terms of broadband speed and availability, thanks in no small part to the limited competition.
I see. I knew that there were some problems but not at this point. Perhaps apart competition the geographical distribution of the population could play a role too. And if so, this is difficult to circumvent.
you beat me to it
...sorry?
i dont know why but dropping the prce that £26 has made it look a WHOLE lot more attractive to me... if it wasnt so sunny here, if i wasnt up to my neck in house maintenance (building a courtyard out the back then redoing the kitchen ceiling) id be very tempted.. i AM very tempted... 6 months ago id have been all over this !
unless the summer turns out REALLY bad, i think i MIGHT just wait till GTA4 comes out
But then again, I don't see what people see in the AppleTV thingie. Go figure.
ive my mini hooked up to the TV.. its one of the best things ive done, apart from actually BUYING a mac in the first place
so i have no need for an Apple TV
or so i thought
but then one day recently the obvious dawned on me
the TV room has a (not so) great tendancy to be cold in the winter, now i can keep te heating on, and thats ok, but costly.. considering the kitchen/living room has a range cooker on 24/7 in the winter.. so im gonna go LCD in there and buy an Apple TV to stream all the movies and series i have on HDD (about to go up to 1.8 Terrabytes worth any day now)
and i REALLY had no plans on getting one!
Therefore, even 10:1 sales ratio at the moment means nothing.... when you compare 10 units to 1 units...when the whole market consist of gazillion......
i could be flippant and roll my eyes and say that even 10:1 not being a good enough indicator for you is no surprise
It will probably get even more complicated once the internet download service becomes more popular.....
that i can agree with , it will be very interesting if players like Apple can get enough sales and enough movie VARIETY and sell enough Apple TVs... but its still all if,if,if
so really all you or i can say is... we cant predict the future.
so we rely on the scant but GROWING evidence of volume sales... just EXACTLY like we will in terms of looking at movie sales from the likes of iTunes and of the Apple TV. {which i now realise i NEED!! go figure
Since good 480p source upconverted with good video processor would look near HD quality
wow... i want to write something bombastic and overblown in response to that... but i think you may be (from the stuff ive read on this thread and others) quite alone in saying that
Anyway, as of right now, every format is a potential winner and a loser....... So, the current BD or HD sales figures don't mean jack other than the periodical progress indicator of long long long format war to come.
and that was my point in asking you WHAT is the ratio YOU would consider that BD is outselling HD-DVD by would be the indicator that the war between the two formats (only the two) is over? ie not CURRENT but future.
I'm sure there are many other things you don't understand, including myself
mmm...almost a snide comment, but yeah im sure i could figure out one or two things i dont understand... cant we all?
im not perfect....YET
Holy shat have you guys into Home Theater checked out the Audyssey MultEQ hardware? www.audyssey.com It's ran by Tomlinson Holman (of THX...Tomlinson Holmans Experiment) fame. It's spendy at $2450 MRSP ....
Well, we will see who wins. I honestly don't care at this point, though I guess since I have a PS3 I'd rather see Blu-Ray. I own the movie that came with it and thats all. I have two games. As long as I can by games for another 5 years, I really don't care though. I'll by a freestanding player eventually anyway, probably when I upgrade my receiver (I don't even have surround now).
That's a good segue to the audio portion. I've certainly heard of Audyssey. I've been looking at the receiver end of things and I'm convinced that when the time comes, I'm going with a Denon. It'll be another year at least until I go that route..but when I do I'll invest $2000 in the receiver and at least an other $1000 in the speakers. I've been looking at the Denon 4306 http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/2243.asp
I see more HD-DVD rush coming.....
That's a good segue to the audio portion. I've certainly heard of Audyssey. I've been looking at the receiver end of things and I'm convinced that when the time comes, I'm going with a Denon. It'll be another year at least until I go that route..but when I do I'll invest $2000 in the receiver and at least an other $1000 in the speakers. I've been looking at the Denon 4306 http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/2243.asp
I love Denon products. However, I recently upgraded my entire home theater and I ended going with the Onkyo. And I'm extremely happy and impressed with Onkyo's products. Give them a look.
I see. I knew that there were some problems but not at this point. Perhaps apart competition the geographical distribution of the population could play a role too. And if so, this is difficult to circumvent.
The ISPs have been using that excuse for years, too. And yet the fact remains that NYC and Tokyo, both with comparable population density, do not have comparable broadband speeds available to residents.
Pricing alert!.... HD-DVD player, HD-A2 now priced at $299 with 5 free HD-DVD rebate at amazon. Also, some people got great deal at local Circuit City, now promoting HD-A2 with free 4 HD-DVD movies.... the promo price for HD-A2 is around $230, but you need to pick up 4 HD-DVD movies to add and comes up around $350 out the door. I believe you can also get the toshiba's 5 free HD-DVD rebate along with CC deal. So... for about $350, you get 9 HD-DVD movies and a HD-A2 player.... Not a bad deal at all, even when you're just looking into getting a good upconverting SD-DVD player.
I see more HD-DVD rush coming.....
It's just amazing. When Blu-ray puts its discs on sale, some people say it's desperation. When HD DVD puts its discs on sale, the same people say it's a good deal. Especially when you have to buy those discs a the exact same time you buy the player, and from a limited selection if it's at a bricks and mortar retailer. It couldn't possibly be a ploy to get disc sales figures up, could it? Noooo, of course not.
I love Denon products. However, I recently upgraded my entire home theater and I ended going with the Onkyo. And I'm extremely happy and impressed with Onkyo's products. Give them a look.
Yeah, I'm familiar with them. Right now though, Denon clearly leads the pack with features, particularly how they handle video processing. Onkyo makes a good product though, no doubt.
The ISPs have been using that excuse for years, too. And yet the fact remains that NYC and Tokyo, both with comparable population density, do not have comparable broadband speeds available to residents.
It's just amazing. When Blu-ray puts its discs on sale, some people say it's desperation. When HD DVD puts its discs on sale, the same people say it's a good deal. Especially when you have to buy those discs a the exact same time you buy the player, and from a limited selection if it's at a bricks and mortar retailer. It couldn't possibly be a ploy to get disc sales figures up, could it? Noooo, of course not.
i wonder..
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130058/article.html
PC World High Definition Player Round Up...And looky where HD DVD stacked up?....Hmmm, last.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130058/article.html
Hm... Best is rated 82 and the wost is 79.... The expert AV reviewers from PCworld think that Sammy BD-P1000 is the best player over even the PS3?... Well.... that what the experts say....
i wonder... do all those 5 free HD-DUD discs add up to total discs "sold"??
i wonder..
I'm sure they could, if they wanted to. If Sony does it.... why the hell not?... LOL. Kidding aside, sales numbers at this point is just too small to be significant. Once the sales numbers of both formats together come close to maybe 10% of the whole, then the numbers would have little more meaning.
SDW2001, you might be happier spending $1000?1500 on a receiver and the remainder of the $3000 on speakers. Are you going to go 5.1 or 7.1?
Northgate, I have no experience with Denon, but from I've read they're a bitch to set up. You might want to read the receiver board on avsform, Yamaha is another brand to consider, as are the Pioneer Elites; however the Elites seem to be suffering from a firmware problem that requires them to be taken to a service center.
Hm... Best is rated 82 and the wost is 79.... The expert AV reviewers from PCworld think that Sammy BD-P1000 is the best player over even the PS3?... Well.... that what the experts say....
erm... {faux outrage} cant you even get THAT right
the bottom rated "player" is 72 the 360 and above that... its 75 where did you get 79 ??
erm... {faux outrage} cant you even get THAT right
the bottom rated "player" is 72 the 360 and above that... its 75 where did you get 79 ??
oops... I only looked at the top 5.... the banner lost me. Anyway, you're missing the point, where the reviews were done by the reputable expert AV reviewer who works for PCworld? No... Then, what does that informatioin worth?....... it's waste of time. Just go reference pcworld reviewer's recommendations to the reviews done by the real experts...... then reply back if you'd like.