AppleTV & codecs

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 54
    wmfwmf Posts: 1,164member
    If you have a lot of pirated files, just don't buy AppleTV.
  • Reply 22 of 54
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    There is no legal way for me to rip DVDs. That is copyright violation just like downloading mp3s or movies.
  • Reply 23 of 54
    areseearesee Posts: 776member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by octane View Post


    Quote:

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hiro

    AppleTV will play anything streamed from iTunes as well. That means you can install a transcodec into QT that will do the transcoding for you on the stream. No need to jack with the set-top box at all.



    We now have much stronger motivation for some of those other codecs to be implemented as QT plug-ins rather than just work in their own viewer.



    Quote:

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mr. H

    I have seen no evidence at all that this is the case. Can you provide any?



    I second that; do you have hands-on knowledge that it will?



    The AppleTV spec page sure reminds me of the iPod video page, AppleTV looking more iPod than iTunes+Front Row (which I was hoping for). My fingers are crossed that it will play anything in my iTunes library, but the current business model in place at Apple leads me to believe other wise. We may just have see in Feb.



    Watch the keynote. Jobs said several times that the AppleTV can stream from five PCs. He and Phil even demonstrated with a MacBook during the keynote.
  • Reply 24 of 54
    almalm Posts: 111member
    I'm pretty sure that "stream" means that it will receive raw stream from file and will have to decode it. That's common thing.
  • Reply 25 of 54
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    I have seen no evidence at all that this is the case. Can you provide any?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by octane View Post


    I second that; do you have hands-on knowledge that it will?



    The AppleTV spec page sure reminds me of the iPod video page, AppleTV looking more iPod than iTunes+Front Row (which I was hoping for). My fingers are crossed that it will play anything in my iTunes library, but the current business model in place at Apple leads me to believe other wise. We may just have see in Feb.





    Umm yes???



    How obvious does Apple have to say it? Would this page qualify? [see "Always On" paragraph]



    For those that don't want to follow the link:
    Quote:

    Apple TV streams as well as it syncs, so you can pair up to five additional computers and let friends and family stream their iTunes libraries to your TV. And if iTunes is still syncing what you want to see — or if you don’t want to sync at all — you can watch a stream from your computer right away.





    All iTunes does is hand a file to QuickTime, that's all it has ever done. The stream will almost assuredly be handled by a version of QT Streaming Server which is already battle tested. The stream (for video) will also almost assuredly be in H.264 to manage the bandwidth. That leaves all the transcoding on the computer, not in the set-top box, making the set-top hardware simpler and insulated from future file format changes and associated firmware updates that may go south. It's actually pretty damn simple and only needed 802.11n to provide the necessary bandwidth, otherwise all the other pieces have been around for years.
  • Reply 26 of 54
    almalm Posts: 111member
    Yes, and in this case it will hand file (undecoded) to AppleTV.
  • Reply 27 of 54
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    There is no legal way for me to rip DVDs. That is copyright violation just like downloading mp3s or movies.



    This is not necessarily true. In America (before the DMCA) and many other parts of the world, copyright laws allow for the transfer of content from one media type to another for personal use.



    The DMCA may present a legal problem with DVDs, but as I said, I don't think this has actually been tested in court. I believe the DMCA makes allowance for personal use.



    And finally, I don't think anyone regards ripping your own DVDs for your own use as piracy.
  • Reply 28 of 54
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Sorry Hiro & aresee, but you are mistaken about what streaming is.



    Streaming does not entail transcoding. I know that the AppleTV will receive streams from iTunes. But if you try and stream a file from iTunes that AppeTV doesn't have a codec for, it will not play. In other words, at this moment in time, since the AppleTV can only decode MPEG-4 part 2 or 10 streams, those are the only files that you can play. This will change when/if:



    1.) Apple implement transcoding in iTunes (it does not currently do this)



    or



    2.) Third-parties can provide codecs that run on the AppleTV.
  • Reply 29 of 54
    gordygordy Posts: 1,004member
    I think we all know that, like iPod, this platform will stay closed, and that no real codec support will be added.



    After thinking about it, I have cancelled my AppleTV order. The codec support is the dealbreaker for me. I'll be buying a mini instead.
  • Reply 30 of 54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    Originally Posted by skatman

    DIVX, XVID, and the latest WMV are all MPEG-4 formats just like H.264.



    No.



    They are all based on similar ideas to one another (much like vorbis, mp3, AAC, ac3, WMA are all based on similar ideas to one another), but they most certainly are not MPEG-4.



    Ok, that's confused me so much I've even registered after lurking for waaaaay too long



    Even the Wikipedia page you link to states:



    "Xvid - MPEG-4 part 2 codec, compatible with DivX. "



    I understand that WMV is a container specification that can contain different codecs so I'm in agreement that WMV is not MPEG-4, but as far as I was aware divx & xvid are both MPEG-4 implementations?
  • Reply 31 of 54
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jemster View Post


    "Xvid - MPEG-4 part 2 codec, compatible with DivX."



    Oops, my bad. I hadn't realised that Xvid was an MPEG-4 part 2 compliant codec. I thought it was a proprietary hack up of MPEG-4 part 2 ideas like DivX and WMV.



    DivX started as a hack of Microsoft's "MPEG-4 version 3" codec, sometimes referred to as WMV1. WMV1 was created before MPEG-4 part 2 was finalised. It is proprietary to Microsoft and not MPEG-4 part 2 compliant (you can't decode it with an MPEG-4 decoder). The problem was that WMV1 only allowed the video stream to be encapsulated with an ASF wrapper. DivX was originally created as a hack of WMV1, allowing other wrappers/containers (such as AVI) to be used.



    DivX continued from there. It uses many of the same techniques as MPEG-4 part 2, but is not complaint with it, so DivX streams cannot be decoded with an MPEG-4 decoder. With version 6, DivX expanded and now offers both a video codec and a new wrapper/container to compete with .avi, .mov et al.
  • Reply 32 of 54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    Oops, my bad. I Hadn't realised that Xvid was an MPEG-4 part 2 compliant codec. I thought it was a proprietary hack up of MPEG-4 part 2 ideas like DivX and WMV-3.



    Sooooo... given that, it looks to me like the appleTV is going to support divx & xvid files to some extent. I wish Apple weren't so coy about the capabilities of this thing as I'd love to place an order if I knew it'd do everything I wanted. I suspect it will but I can't afford to burn money, I've already got a KiSS dp-1500 DVD Player that was meant to stream movies wirelessly but was woefully inadequate.
  • Reply 33 of 54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gordy View Post


    I think we all know that, like iPod, this platform will stay closed, and that no real codec support will be added.



    After thinking about it, I have cancelled my AppleTV order. The codec support is the dealbreaker for me. I'll be buying a mini instead.



    Yea, I hope everyone decides to cancel their Apple TV orders and their iPhone orders! Here's why... because Apple got these two products so close to being perfect but the few imperfections they do have, whether technical details or marketing, just absolutely kill the deal!



    Problems with iPhone:

    - It is "locked" to a specific service provider

    - Can't get an iPhone without a TWO YEAR CONTRACT (astonishingly STUPID of Apple to give into this CRAP!)

    - It's Expensive

    - No VOIP / Skype

    - No GPS



    Problems with Apple TV:

    - limited codec support (it's like they're trying to force you to buy your video content from iTunes)

    - It could easily have feature to stream from YouTube and Google Video, but doesn't

    - It's a little expensive for the limited features



    Why Apple get's so close and then does something soooo IDIODIC like partner exclusively with Cingular I cannot figure out! It is sooo sad, soooo sad, soooo sad The iPhone should be sold UNLOCKED! If Apple has the power to force the music studios to give into their ideas on music downloads at $0.99/track download-to-own model - and Apple admits this is because consumers want to OWN the music they pay for, then why can't Apple use their power to totally change the cellphone industry - forcing the providers to get away from the dreaded multi-year contracts, etc.???? WHY? WHY? WHY? It's like Apple is working for Cingular now, and not for their CUSTOMERS like you and me!
  • Reply 34 of 54
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jemster View Post


    Sooooo... given that, it looks to me like the appleTV is going to support divx & xvid files to some extent.



    DivX - No. Not without third-party codec on AppeTV or transcoding of the file before streaming.



    XviD - possibly, as long as you can get the XviD video track inside a .mov wrapper so that iTunes will understand it. That's not too hard to do with QuickTime Pro.



    However



    There is an additional problem. MPEG-4 part 2 is made up of different "profiles":



    Simple Profile and Advanced Simple Profile. Advanced Simple Profile is a superset of Simple Profile.



    XviD implements Advanced Simple Profile. AppleTV will only do Simple Profile. So, if you've an XviD-encoded file that used any of the Advance Simple Profile features, the AppleTV will not play it.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jemster View Post


    I wish Apple weren't so coy about the capabilities of this thing as I'd love to place an order if I knew it'd do everything I wanted. I suspect it will but I can't afford to burn money, I've already got a KiSS dp-1500 DVD Player that was meant to stream movies wirelessly but was woefully inadequate.



    Check out this post of mine from a while back. You may find something suitable.



    Oh, and in case you missed it, I updated my earlier post in this thread (#32) with more info.
  • Reply 35 of 54
    Trojan horse, Macvault, trojan horse.



    Apple never would've been able to get into the game without cell provider support. Even though they may have been able to sell an unlocked phone, it would be too expensive and the providers wouldn't support any of the advanced features anyway.



    It's only exclusive for two years, after that Apple will be in a much better position to force other carriers to tolerate the fact that the iPhone will use more features than they want.
  • Reply 36 of 54
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Macvault View Post


    The iPhone should be sold UNLOCKED!



    Do you have any idea how much the iPhone would cost if it came unlocked? You're already complaining it's too expensive. The price is being subsidised by the contract.
  • Reply 37 of 54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    Do you have any idea how much the iPhone would cost if it came unlocked? You're already complaining it's too expensive. The price is being subsidised by the contract.



    Yea, I know, but I'd rather pay a few hundred $$$ more and own the thing free and clear, use it as a VOIP phone or whatever, than have to be under a #$^$%&$ cellphone contract - one of the worst things known to man! I cannot beleive Steve and Apple gave into this CRAP! I thought they would KNOW WHAT WE WANT and force the industry to conform to it's users by doing away with stupid contracts, etc. Kind of how Apple revolutionized the music industry - they forced the record labels to do it how we consumers want it to be done!
  • Reply 38 of 54
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    There is no legal way for me to rip DVDs. That is copyright violation just like downloading mp3s or movies.



    I don't think that's true. My understanding is that fair use has won in the courts and that people are allowed to rip DVDs for their personal use.
  • Reply 39 of 54
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    Do you have any idea how much the iPhone would cost if it came unlocked? You're already complaining it's too expensive. The price is being subsidised by the contract.



    Not only that, but it also wouldn't have some of the features it has, like voice mail. (Oh wait, this isn't an iPhone thread, is it.)
  • Reply 40 of 54
    pmjoepmjoe Posts: 565member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jemster View Post


    Sooooo... given that, it looks to me like the appleTV is going to support divx & xvid files to some extent.



    I haven't gotten that appearance from anything I've read that it'll play anything more than: "H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): 640 by 480, 30 fps, LC version of Baseline Profile; 320 by 240, 30 fps, Baseline profile up to Level 1.3; 1280 by 720, 24 fps, Progressive Main Profile. MPEG-4: 640 by 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile". Not enough for me either resolution or codec-wise, so I won't be getting one.

    Quote:

    I wish Apple weren't so coy about the capabilities of this thing as I'd love to place an order if I knew it'd do everything I wanted.



    It says right on Apple's website what it is capable of playing back. There is nothing coy about it.
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