AppleTV & codecs

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  • Reply 41 of 54
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BRussell View Post


    I don't think that's true. My understanding is that fair use has won in the courts and that people are allowed to rip DVDs for their personal use.



    You can legally rip it, but you cannot legally DeCSS it. For all intents and purposes that mens you cannot legally rip it since nearly everyone thinks of ripping a DVD as also unlocking it for playback.
  • Reply 42 of 54
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    You can legally rip it, but you cannot legally DeCSS it. For all intents and purposes that mens you cannot legally rip it since nearly everyone thinks of ripping a DVD as also unlocking it for playback.



    It's not that simple. Some laws in the US make it illegal to break copy protection, other laws permit personal use. The laws conflict, and the courts haven't definitively resolved the conflict. The making or distributing of software that breaks copy protection seems to have been found illegal in the courts with much more certainty, but the use of that software to rip DVDs for personal use is still up in the air. The MPAA and others of course want it to be illegal, but that doesn't mean the entire legal system, including the courts which interpret the law, will bend over and do whatever they want.
  • Reply 43 of 54
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    While the technicalities of that might be true, you can still get arrested for DMCA violations. Then sit thru the sucky part while the rest of the legal system decides whether DMCA can trump fair use or not. Will someone get arrested for personal use? Probably not. But the law is unfriendly enough to make everyone quite careful about the whole thing lest life get more interesting than it needs to be.
  • Reply 44 of 54
    octaneoctane Posts: 157member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aresee View Post


    Watch the keynote. Jobs said several times that the AppleTV can stream from five PCs. He and Phil even demonstrated with a MacBook during the keynote.



    Stream content from other machines wasn't even questioned. Perhaps I should have been more clear. I watched the keynote well before I posted my comment, and it provided no evidence for my question. Yes, Phil did stream content to the AppleTV from his MacBook, do you think the TV show was ripped from a DVD or off bittorrent? I don't think I was questioning if the AppleTV would play content from the iTunes store, did it seam like I was?





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    Umm yes???



    How obvious does Apple have to say it? Would this page qualify? [see "Always On" paragraph]



    For those that don't want to follow the link:





    All iTunes does is hand a file to QuickTime, that's all it has ever done. The stream will almost assuredly be handled by a version of QT Streaming Server which is already battle tested. The stream (for video) will also almost assuredly be in H.264 to manage the bandwidth. That leaves all the transcoding on the computer, not in the set-top box, making the set-top hardware simpler and insulated from future file format changes and associated firmware updates that may go south. It's actually pretty damn simple and only needed 802.11n to provide the necessary bandwidth, otherwise all the other pieces have been around for years.





    That page provides no answers to the question, I stand by my original post. We'll just have to wait and see.
  • Reply 45 of 54
    skatmanskatman Posts: 609member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jemster View Post


    Ok, that's confused me so much I've even registered after lurking for waaaaay too long



    Even the Wikipedia page you link to states:



    "Xvid - MPEG-4 part 2 codec, compatible with DivX. "



    I understand that WMV is a container specification that can contain different codecs so I'm in agreement that WMV is not MPEG-4, but as far as I was aware divx & xvid are both MPEG-4 implementations?



    That is why I said "latest WMV". Not all WMV packaged codecs are MPEG-4 based. WMV9 and above are MPEG-4.
  • Reply 46 of 54
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by octane View Post


    Stream content from other machines wasn't even questioned. Perhaps I should have been more clear. I watched the keynote well before I posted my comment, and it provided no evidence for my question. Yes, Phil did stream content to the AppleTV from his MacBook, do you think the TV show was ripped from a DVD or off bittorrent? I don't think I was questioning if the AppleTV would play content from the iTunes store, did it seam like I was?



    It bears repeating: With the prevalence of tools like ffmpegx, it's easy enough to simply convert whatever you have to a format that the iPod or AppleTV will play. For that reason, this is all really a non-issue, in my view. There are tons of different formats - what about flash video? I doubt AppleTV will play that, so you just download it from YouTube, convert it, and stick it in iTunes if you want AppleTV to access it.
  • Reply 47 of 54
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by skatman View Post


    WMV9 and above are MPEG-4.



    No, they aren't. You show me an MPEG-4 decoder decoding a WMV9 track.



    WMV9 has been standardised as VC-1 and is a competitor to H.264.
  • Reply 48 of 54
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BRussell View Post


    this is all really a non-issue, in my view.



    Not entirely. Lossily re-compressing an already lossily compressed file doesn't do wonders for quality.
  • Reply 49 of 54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    Never going to happen. You'll have to either transcode your files or get a different device. There are plenty of competitors out there, most of them cheaper.

    [/i]



    What are some of these cheaper boxes for playing Divx files (especially DivXHD) on a TV?
  • Reply 50 of 54
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post




    How do I put my DVDs into iTunes?

    I cannot even use this device to enjoy my legally-acquired content.



    You can't legally acquire DVD content in the US because it conflict with the DMCA. Sorta. While making legal backups were upheld in the 321 case how one legally gets decrypter software is dubious as distribution of software to make backups was judged illegal.



    Which is about as dumb a ruling as could have been made but it does mean nothing in iTunes will help you rip your own DVDs. Nothing Apple can do about it. Blame MPAA.



    So pretty much unless you are showing you own videos or videos purchased from iTunes or the rare unprotected DVD you would be "pirating" or breaking DMCA. AFAIK the DMCRA never got anywhere.



    Vinea
  • Reply 51 of 54
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by transco View Post


    What are some of these cheaper boxes for playing Divx files (especially DivXHD) on a TV?



    See this post from a while back in a different thread.
  • Reply 52 of 54
    jcgjcg Posts: 777member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BRussell View Post


    It's not that simple. Some laws in the US make it illegal to break copy protection, other laws permit personal use. The laws conflict, and the courts haven't definitively resolved the conflict. The making or distributing of software that breaks copy protection seems to have been found illegal in the courts with much more certainty, but the use of that software to rip DVDs for personal use is still up in the air. The MPAA and others of course want it to be illegal, but that doesn't mean the entire legal system, including the courts which interpret the law, will bend over and do whatever they want.



    As I understand it you can legally make back up copies of DVD's for personal, but you cannot RIP them or in any other way alter the "image" of the content on the disk. When you RIP a DVD you remove the copy protections which is illegal.
  • Reply 53 of 54
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JCG View Post


    As I understand it you can legally make back up copies of DVD's for personal, but you cannot RIP them or in any other way alter the "image" of the content on the disk. When you RIP a DVD you remove the copy protections which is illegal.



    My understanding of the situation in the U.S. is similar to BRussell's. There's a rather strange situation in that ripping the data from a DVD and removing the copy protection in the process is legal for personal use, but the distribution of the software to carry out that task is illegal.



    It is "fair use" to remove the copy protection in order to be able to convert the video from one format to another and subsequently play it on any device of your choosing, therefore it is legal as the DMCA allows for fair use. How you get your hands on the software necessary to exercise your fair-use rights is another matter. In any case, if you were to get your hands on said software, I believe that it would be the purveyor of the software, rather than you, that would be breaking the law.
  • Reply 54 of 54
    wmfwmf Posts: 1,164member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by transco View Post


    What are some of these cheaper boxes for playing Divx files (especially DivXHD) on a TV?



    http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=542&sec=1

    http://www.netgear.com/Products/Ente...s/EVA8000.aspx

    http://www.mvixusa.com/

    http://www.kiss-technology.com/?p=600en&v=users



    OK, so some of them aren't cheaper than AppleTV, but they play more formats.
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