When I go back to an older system like XP or OS 9, I can zip through stuff in next to no time.
I know, OS9 has extension conflicts, system freezes, and general instability which depletes productivity SO much more efficiently than the Genie effect.
EXACTLY! It annoys me very much too! I have an Intel iMac with 2gb memory.
Some examples of worse productivity on MacOSX:
- It's the spinning beachball when pressing ALT-I to "Italic" my text
- the spinning beachball when opening the Finder
- the REALLY annoying open/save dialog "warping" effect
- The swich effect for opening Finder windows (just pop up damnit)
- the fact I can't make folders or move inside open/save dialogs
(so when you save a file, browse to the destination folder and then need to
re-arrange stuff, you can't do that and have to browse to the same folder on the finder)
- When you minimize a window (e.g a browser window) it hides to the dock.
Then, right-clicking the dock window icon doesn't give me a 'close' option, which
is inconsistent. I have to re-open the window (genie grrr) and close it!
- I can't resize windows just like in Linux or Windows (left side of window, top, etc)
so a window which is on the right of my screen must be first moved to the left
and then I can resize it.
- I cant move/paste files on the finder my moving/pasting
- I can't copy/paste directories. On windows I can simply copy the path, paste
it in a Explorer window and e.g cut of the last folder of this path and press ENTER.
...all these things menioned above (especially interaction design stuff) will not result
in a more complex user interface. And all these things are very, very important when you
are working outside iTunes, iPhoto, etc. I use pro apps and Finder all the time and I
have to say productivity on Windows is better. *I use both platforms for a while, not a switcher*
I hope Leopard doesn't change the OS in some kind of Core Animation Galore. I want focus on producitivity!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
If part of the old UI paradigm was that it doesn't get bogged down then I would say I want it back. I'm getting really frustrated by all the little delays OS X keeps having. In Windows, I double-click a folder and the Window is there. I hide it and it vanishes instantly, no fading, no scale or genie. I click it in the taskbar and it's back instantly. I don't mean in 1 -2 seconds, I mean instantly. I want my whole system to run like that but Apple keep pushing the ideas about making things animate and swish in and out. I need to get work done and all these little delays add up. It does affect productivity because you get used to having to wait on things and taking things at a slower pace. When I go back to an older system like XP or OS 9, I can zip through stuff in next to no time.
That's a bit unfair. The point is being made that all those delays add up. If you are using a Mac at work, e.g for web development or what-have-you, it becomes annoying.
For new users; I think most of the animations on MacOSX do not result in "hey, I know what's going on now". There's enough feedforward/feedback going on most of the time.
But, I see your point that it can be handy for new users. But should all experienced users suffer for something that's made for new users? Then I opt for a "turn off effects" pref pane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha
Not to mention the fact that it's not like it keeps you from doing something else during that .5sec.
Such things are actually really important for illustrating what's going on to the user - *particularly* new users. "Where did it go?!?"
An option to turn off all the eye candy would be fair. I think giving people options is always a good idea.
But that reminds me of when I used to work at best buy, when people bought a windows PC, the techs would offer their spiel on whatever extra crap they can sell the customer, and on of those was a 30 dollar service called "system optimization". Basically what they did was turn off all the GUI effects in windows (e.g. window fading and such). What a scam.
- The swich effect for opening Finder windows (just pop up damnit)
All the other ones you mentioned annoy me too but this one can fortunately be turned off and I do so as soon as I get a new installation of OS X. I just get Tinkertool and disable Finder animation (don't disable desktop features - that disables your desktop):
...all these things menioned above (especially interaction design stuff) will not result
in a more complex user interface. And all these things are very, very important when you
are working outside iTunes, iPhoto, etc. I use pro apps and Finder all the time and I
have to say productivity on Windows is better. *I use both platforms for a while, not a switcher*
I hope Leopard doesn't change the OS in some kind of Core Animation Galore. I want focus on productivity!
Definitely. One of the worst effects is Aperture's file browser. That's just bordering on ridiculous.
What I find funny is that the most productive app I've ever used is Shake and it has none of what people say make an OS X app. No font antialiasing or aquafied interface, no rollout sheets. But I find that I don't care one little bit because I can get work done quickly.
I think one thing that may help with the delays is quartz 2d extreme:
That's a bit unfair. The point is being made that all those delays add up. If you are using a Mac at work, e.g for web development or what-have-you, it becomes annoying.
The point was: the delay is usually just in your head. Beachballs? Sure. Those are annoying as hell, no doubt about it - but that's just shoddy programming of the Finder et al, not a problem with any eye candy. Beachball != eye candy, it's an indication that something is truly in a wait state. The others? No problem, go to the next thing you're doing.
I'd be interested in hearing more of your shortcuts for using Windows, because I wasn't really sure what you meant on a couple of those.
Quote:
For new users; I think most of the animations on MacOSX do not result in "hey, I know what's going on now". There's enough feedforward/feedback going on most of the time.
But, I see your point that it can be handy for new users. But should all experienced users suffer for something that's made for new users? Then I opt for a "turn off effects" pref pane.
*shrug* I use my Mac daily for work, and can't say they've ever bothered me. While it's doing one thing, I do another. Multitasking, y'know.
Wonderful remark. As soon as people start thinking about how things could be better, Mac fanboys are popping up and say: "hey, use Windows then!". Now that will improve MacOSX considerably! Bravo!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha
The point was: the delay is usually just in your head.
No it ain't in my head...It happens a lot less on Linux and Windows, OSses I use daily (Linux for server management, Windows for several Win only apps, Mac for video/music.[/QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha
Beachball != eye candy, it's an indication that something is truly in a wait state.
I agree. I was pointing out three seperate things that annoy me:
- animations that take the speed out of serious computer use
- beachballs that perhaps is the cause of inefficient programming.
- interaction design stuff that could be improvied
So the point you are making is true -but I was aware of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha
The others? No problem, go to the next thing you're doing.
I'd be interested in hearing more of your shortcuts for using Windows, because I wasn't really sure what you meant on a couple of those.
okay :-) Here goes!
First off all there is the (in)famous cut and paste feature on Windows. Now before Mac users start saying that's it's inconsistent or a bad metaphor, let me say it is darn handy!
Why no "grab file(s)" and "let go file(s)" on Mac? I don't want to switch to column view to move my files to the parent directory or to another location on my drive, because column view - by default- only shows the filenames partially. Resizing the columns takes too long.
Secondly there's an option on Windows to "view address bar" in an window. Again, a really bad naming since a folder structure is not an "address" (its because Windows XP uses the same bar for URLs).
Imagine I want to compare files from mySite\\public_html\\php to mySiteTwo\\public_html\\php.
The handy thing is that I simply copy the address from the addressbar, and paste it in another address bar, and e.g edit the first part of the directory structure (mySite => mySiteTwo).
Then I can start comparing and copying files from A to B.
Another thing: drop down boxes. Country selection in the browser for example. Let's say I am on Windows and I need to choose "netherlands". On Window, I repeatly press "N", and the dropdown menu skips from Nigeria to Netherlands, etc... Try the same on the Mac. Doesn't work, it stays at "Nigeria".
And there are lots of other small things that Apple could improve on.
I hope their focus isn't completely on widget-dashboard-core-animation-flashy-3d-stuff :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha
*shrug* I use my Mac daily for work, and can't say they've ever bothered me. While it's doing one thing, I do another. Multitasking, y'know.
yeah I know :-) I just want to see MacOSX being improved on cause it's a great OS!
No it ain't in my head...It happens a lot less on Linux and Windows, OSses I use daily (Linux for server management, Windows for several Win only apps, Mac for video/music.
Well, what I meant was that while the things you are stating do *happen*, the fact that most of them *actually* slow you down is just in your head. ie, a .5sec delay on an action that you're not immediately *waiting* on (like the swish to the Dock) is no delay at all to your workflow. Many of the eye candy items fall into that category. That's all.
Quote:
I agree. I was pointing out three seperate things that annoy me:
- animations that take the speed out of serious computer use
- beachballs that perhaps is the cause of inefficient programming.
- interaction design stuff that could be improvied
So the point you are making is true -but I was aware of that.
'k
Quote:
okay :-) Here goes!
First off all there is the (in)famous cut and paste feature on Windows. Now before Mac users start saying that's it's inconsistent or a bad metaphor, let me say it is darn handy!
Why no "grab file(s)" and "let go file(s)" on Mac? I don't want to switch to column view to move my files to the parent directory or to another location on my drive, because column view - by default- only shows the filenames partially. Resizing the columns takes too long.
Not gonna argue this one, I disagree with you, but there's just no pleasing some people.
Quote:
Secondly there's an option on Windows to "view address bar" in an window. Again, a really bad naming since a folder structure is not an "address" (its because Windows XP uses the same bar for URLs).
Imagine I want to compare files from mySite\\public_html\\php to mySiteTwo\\public_html\\php.
The handy thing is that I simply copy the address from the addressbar, and paste it in another address bar, and e.g edit the first part of the directory structure (mySite => mySiteTwo).
Then I can start comparing and copying files from A to B.
Okay, so what you want is an integration of the command line with the GUI. Hmm. Can't say I'd be for that, although I can understand the utility. I bounce between the two on a regular basis... and to be honest, the lack of a solid command line in Windows *BUGS THE HELL OUT OF ME*. Half a dozen times a day, I find myself thinking "Good god damn, why can't this POS thing just GET OUT OF MY WAY??" Hmm, I'd have to ponder that one. Useful for serious power users, probably crappy for the rest of the users, and the serious power users have the Terminal to go to for a truly powerful experience...
Quote:
Another thing: drop down boxes. Country selection in the browser for example. Let's say I am on Windows and I need to choose "netherlands". On Window, I repeatly press "N", and the dropdown menu skips from Nigeria to Netherlands, etc... Try the same on the Mac. Doesn't work, it stays at "Nigeria".
Try actually typing the name. N gets you to the Ns. Ne would get you to Netherlands. etc. And, of course, you can then use the arrows when you get close enough, or if you end up with 'United Arab Emirates' and 'United States of America' on the list and don't feel like typing 'United S' to get to the second one.
Quote:
And there are lots of other small things that Apple could improve on.
I hope their focus isn't completely on widget-dashboard-core-animation-flashy-3d-stuff :-)
yeah I know :-) I just want to see MacOSX being improved on cause it's a great OS!
Oh sure, there are always things that can be improved upon. The trick is improving them in the right direction.
Secondly there's an option on Windows to "view address bar" in an window.
I would love to see an address bar in the Finder. I'm so tired of always using the Go menu and it's handy for copying the current directory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha
and to be honest, the lack of a solid command line in Windows *BUGS THE HELL OUT OF ME*.
Yeah, that's one of the biggest reasons I have against using Windows but the interface is still faster. I guess strictly we should compare the Os X one to Vista but I believe they still give you an option to turn off the fancy effects.
The speed of the "scroll down" windows for Save and Open can be set to Instant via a command-line change in one of the system's plists. I can't remember right now which one it is. Lemme look on MacOSxHints.
The speed of the "scroll down" windows for Save and Open can be set to Instant via a command-line change in one of the system's plists. I can't remember right now which one it is. Lemme look on MacOSxHints.
Cool tip! I wish it was a prefpane option for all kinds of animations.
Tinkertool also does that one. I think it's called accelerating sheet rollouts. I set it to 0.1 so it's twice as fast as normal. If you make it too fast, it still tries to animate it and then it just stutters and it gets annoying seeing it jitter.
Comments
Such things are actually really important for illustrating what's going on to the user - *particularly* new users. "Where did it go?!?"
When I go back to an older system like XP or OS 9, I can zip through stuff in next to no time.
I know, OS9 has extension conflicts, system freezes, and general instability which depletes productivity SO much more efficiently than the Genie effect.
Some examples of worse productivity on MacOSX:
- It's the spinning beachball when pressing ALT-I to "Italic" my text
- the spinning beachball when opening the Finder
- the REALLY annoying open/save dialog "warping" effect
- The swich effect for opening Finder windows (just pop up damnit)
- the fact I can't make folders or move inside open/save dialogs
(so when you save a file, browse to the destination folder and then need to
re-arrange stuff, you can't do that and have to browse to the same folder on the finder)
- When you minimize a window (e.g a browser window) it hides to the dock.
Then, right-clicking the dock window icon doesn't give me a 'close' option, which
is inconsistent. I have to re-open the window (genie grrr) and close it!
- I can't resize windows just like in Linux or Windows (left side of window, top, etc)
so a window which is on the right of my screen must be first moved to the left
and then I can resize it.
- I cant move/paste files on the finder my moving/pasting
- I can't copy/paste directories. On windows I can simply copy the path, paste
it in a Explorer window and e.g cut of the last folder of this path and press ENTER.
...all these things menioned above (especially interaction design stuff) will not result
in a more complex user interface. And all these things are very, very important when you
are working outside iTunes, iPhoto, etc. I use pro apps and Finder all the time and I
have to say productivity on Windows is better. *I use both platforms for a while, not a switcher*
I hope Leopard doesn't change the OS in some kind of Core Animation Galore. I want focus on producitivity!
If part of the old UI paradigm was that it doesn't get bogged down then I would say I want it back. I'm getting really frustrated by all the little delays OS X keeps having. In Windows, I double-click a folder and the Window is there. I hide it and it vanishes instantly, no fading, no scale or genie. I click it in the taskbar and it's back instantly. I don't mean in 1 -2 seconds, I mean instantly. I want my whole system to run like that but Apple keep pushing the ideas about making things animate and swish in and out. I need to get work done and all these little delays add up. It does affect productivity because you get used to having to wait on things and taking things at a slower pace. When I go back to an older system like XP or OS 9, I can zip through stuff in next to no time.
For new users; I think most of the animations on MacOSX do not result in "hey, I know what's going on now". There's enough feedforward/feedback going on most of the time.
But, I see your point that it can be handy for new users. But should all experienced users suffer for something that's made for new users? Then I opt for a "turn off effects" pref pane.
Not to mention the fact that it's not like it keeps you from doing something else during that .5sec.
Such things are actually really important for illustrating what's going on to the user - *particularly* new users. "Where did it go?!?"
But that reminds me of when I used to work at best buy, when people bought a windows PC, the techs would offer their spiel on whatever extra crap they can sell the customer, and on of those was a 30 dollar service called "system optimization". Basically what they did was turn off all the GUI effects in windows (e.g. window fading and such). What a scam.
- The swich effect for opening Finder windows (just pop up damnit)
All the other ones you mentioned annoy me too but this one can fortunately be turned off and I do so as soon as I get a new installation of OS X. I just get Tinkertool and disable Finder animation (don't disable desktop features - that disables your desktop):
http://www.bresink.com/osx/TinkerTool.html
...all these things menioned above (especially interaction design stuff) will not result
in a more complex user interface. And all these things are very, very important when you
are working outside iTunes, iPhoto, etc. I use pro apps and Finder all the time and I
have to say productivity on Windows is better. *I use both platforms for a while, not a switcher*
I hope Leopard doesn't change the OS in some kind of Core Animation Galore. I want focus on productivity!
Definitely. One of the worst effects is Aperture's file browser. That's just bordering on ridiculous.
What I find funny is that the most productive app I've ever used is Shake and it has none of what people say make an OS X app. No font antialiasing or aquafied interface, no rollout sheets. But I find that I don't care one little bit because I can get work done quickly.
I think one thing that may help with the delays is quartz 2d extreme:
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/14
but still no concrete Leopard news to see if they've actually done anything.
That's a bit unfair. The point is being made that all those delays add up. If you are using a Mac at work, e.g for web development or what-have-you, it becomes annoying.
The point was: the delay is usually just in your head. Beachballs? Sure. Those are annoying as hell, no doubt about it - but that's just shoddy programming of the Finder et al, not a problem with any eye candy. Beachball != eye candy, it's an indication that something is truly in a wait state. The others? No problem, go to the next thing you're doing.
I'd be interested in hearing more of your shortcuts for using Windows, because I wasn't really sure what you meant on a couple of those.
For new users; I think most of the animations on MacOSX do not result in "hey, I know what's going on now". There's enough feedforward/feedback going on most of the time.
But, I see your point that it can be handy for new users. But should all experienced users suffer for something that's made for new users? Then I opt for a "turn off effects" pref pane.
*shrug* I use my Mac daily for work, and can't say they've ever bothered me. While it's doing one thing, I do another. Multitasking, y'know.
Marv, dacloo...Windows! kthxbye.
Wonderful remark. As soon as people start thinking about how things could be better, Mac fanboys are popping up and say: "hey, use Windows then!". Now that will improve MacOSX considerably! Bravo!
The point was: the delay is usually just in your head.
No it ain't in my head...It happens a lot less on Linux and Windows, OSses I use daily (Linux for server management, Windows for several Win only apps, Mac for video/music.[/QUOTE]
Beachball != eye candy, it's an indication that something is truly in a wait state.
I agree. I was pointing out three seperate things that annoy me:
- animations that take the speed out of serious computer use
- beachballs that perhaps is the cause of inefficient programming.
- interaction design stuff that could be improvied
So the point you are making is true -but I was aware of that.
The others? No problem, go to the next thing you're doing.
I'd be interested in hearing more of your shortcuts for using Windows, because I wasn't really sure what you meant on a couple of those.
okay :-) Here goes!
First off all there is the (in)famous cut and paste feature on Windows. Now before Mac users start saying that's it's inconsistent or a bad metaphor, let me say it is darn handy!
Why no "grab file(s)" and "let go file(s)" on Mac? I don't want to switch to column view to move my files to the parent directory or to another location on my drive, because column view - by default- only shows the filenames partially. Resizing the columns takes too long.
Secondly there's an option on Windows to "view address bar" in an window. Again, a really bad naming since a folder structure is not an "address" (its because Windows XP uses the same bar for URLs).
Imagine I want to compare files from mySite\\public_html\\php to mySiteTwo\\public_html\\php.
The handy thing is that I simply copy the address from the addressbar, and paste it in another address bar, and e.g edit the first part of the directory structure (mySite => mySiteTwo).
Then I can start comparing and copying files from A to B.
Another thing: drop down boxes. Country selection in the browser for example. Let's say I am on Windows and I need to choose "netherlands". On Window, I repeatly press "N", and the dropdown menu skips from Nigeria to Netherlands, etc... Try the same on the Mac. Doesn't work, it stays at "Nigeria".
And there are lots of other small things that Apple could improve on.
I hope their focus isn't completely on widget-dashboard-core-animation-flashy-3d-stuff :-)
*shrug* I use my Mac daily for work, and can't say they've ever bothered me. While it's doing one thing, I do another. Multitasking, y'know.
yeah I know :-) I just want to see MacOSX being improved on cause it's a great OS!
No it ain't in my head...It happens a lot less on Linux and Windows, OSses I use daily (Linux for server management, Windows for several Win only apps, Mac for video/music.
Well, what I meant was that while the things you are stating do *happen*, the fact that most of them *actually* slow you down is just in your head.
I agree. I was pointing out three seperate things that annoy me:
- animations that take the speed out of serious computer use
- beachballs that perhaps is the cause of inefficient programming.
- interaction design stuff that could be improvied
So the point you are making is true -but I was aware of that.
'k
okay :-) Here goes!
First off all there is the (in)famous cut and paste feature on Windows. Now before Mac users start saying that's it's inconsistent or a bad metaphor, let me say it is darn handy!
Why no "grab file(s)" and "let go file(s)" on Mac? I don't want to switch to column view to move my files to the parent directory or to another location on my drive, because column view - by default- only shows the filenames partially. Resizing the columns takes too long.
Not gonna argue this one, I disagree with you, but there's just no pleasing some people.
Secondly there's an option on Windows to "view address bar" in an window. Again, a really bad naming since a folder structure is not an "address" (its because Windows XP uses the same bar for URLs).
Imagine I want to compare files from mySite\\public_html\\php to mySiteTwo\\public_html\\php.
The handy thing is that I simply copy the address from the addressbar, and paste it in another address bar, and e.g edit the first part of the directory structure (mySite => mySiteTwo).
Then I can start comparing and copying files from A to B.
Okay, so what you want is an integration of the command line with the GUI. Hmm. Can't say I'd be for that, although I can understand the utility. I bounce between the two on a regular basis... and to be honest, the lack of a solid command line in Windows *BUGS THE HELL OUT OF ME*. Half a dozen times a day, I find myself thinking "Good god damn, why can't this POS thing just GET OUT OF MY WAY??" Hmm, I'd have to ponder that one. Useful for serious power users, probably crappy for the rest of the users, and the serious power users have the Terminal to go to for a truly powerful experience...
Another thing: drop down boxes. Country selection in the browser for example. Let's say I am on Windows and I need to choose "netherlands". On Window, I repeatly press "N", and the dropdown menu skips from Nigeria to Netherlands, etc... Try the same on the Mac. Doesn't work, it stays at "Nigeria".
Try actually typing the name.
And there are lots of other small things that Apple could improve on.
I hope their focus isn't completely on widget-dashboard-core-animation-flashy-3d-stuff :-)
yeah I know :-) I just want to see MacOSX being improved on cause it's a great OS!
Oh sure, there are always things that can be improved upon. The trick is improving them in the right direction.
Secondly there's an option on Windows to "view address bar" in an window.
I would love to see an address bar in the Finder. I'm so tired of always using the Go menu and it's handy for copying the current directory.
and to be honest, the lack of a solid command line in Windows *BUGS THE HELL OUT OF ME*.
Yeah, that's one of the biggest reasons I have against using Windows but the interface is still faster. I guess strictly we should compare the Os X one to Vista but I believe they still give you an option to turn off the fancy effects.
The speed of the "scroll down" windows for Save and Open can be set to Instant via a command-line change in one of the system's plists. I can't remember right now which one it is. Lemme look on MacOSxHints.
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...04051208143172
First, turn off iDisk syncing if you have it on. This stalls the dialogs even starting to open.
Secondly, to make the speed at which the sheets come down and go back up almost instant, do this in the Terminal:
defaults write NSGlobalDomain NSWindowResizeTime .001
And quit and relaunch any app that you want to see the new speed in.
To set it back to the "normal" speed, use 0.2 for the value.
Try actually typing the name.
That's really odd, because I am experiencing weird behaviour on both my Powerbook and my iMac.
Oh sure, there are always things that can be improved upon. The trick is improving them in the right direction.
True!
defaults write NSGlobalDomain NSWindowResizeTime .001
Cool tip! I wish it was a prefpane option for all kinds of animations.
Cool tip! I wish it was a prefpane option for all kinds of animations.
Tinkertool also does that one. I think it's called accelerating sheet rollouts. I set it to 0.1 so it's twice as fast as normal. If you make it too fast, it still tries to animate it and then it just stutters and it gets annoying seeing it jitter.