umm most businesses don't want you watching tv, buring dvds, connecting to a xbox, or playing PC games.
Ummm... at my business (a very large multinational corporation, btw), the ability to burn DVDs in order to archive some pretty big media files is crucial in my group.
Looks like we won't be upgrading to Vista any time soon, in part because of stuff like this.
umm most businesses don't want you watching tv, buring dvds, connecting to a xbox, or playing PC games.
You didn't actually read my message, did you?
I said for a home power-user.
Of course, no business will care about the media features.
But a home user can't use either of the home editions if he telecommutes, because those editions don't allow you to connect to a domain-based network, and they don't support encryption (which a lot of businesses require for off-site computers.) Home users will want all of the media features, forcing them to buy the Ultimate edition (which is my entire point.)
Of course, no business will care about the media features.
But a home user can't use either of the home editions if he telecommutes, because those editions don't allow you to connect to a domain-based network, and they don't support encryption (which a lot of businesses require for off-site computers.) Home users will want all of the media features, forcing them to buy the Ultimate edition (which is my entire point.)
You appear to be somewhat new here - welcome! As far as supporting development on the Mac, Apple is terrific! When you join ADC, you get all sorts of developer resources, including a development environment (Xcode), SDKs, how-to's, videos, and a whole lot more.
I think it needs to be augmented with a third party book to start out, even for intermediate programmers. The Apple docs I've tried to use are often confusing or inadequate. It doesn't help that their downloadable examples are often not compilable on the latest version of Xcode, I had to get to a different computer to see how or if it works.
I use both Mac and PC, because there are somethings online that just dont work with the Mac. If it werent for that I wouldnt even use windows. All this talk about which operating system is the best and all the new features has me puzzled. Mostly cause, I hardly ever use the features of either OS. Most everything I a do has to do with the internet. Now I must say that I like little features like widgets, and spotlight, and I really like expose. But if they really want people to flock their OS, they need to make one that is almost totally web based and improve the ways you search and browse the internet. Just my opinion, Clyde
You appear to be somewhat new here - welcome! As far as supporting development on the Mac, Apple is terrific! When you join ADC, you get all sorts of developer resources, including a development environment (Xcode), SDKs, how-to's, videos, and a whole lot more. If you are meaning the iPhone and iPod, I woiuld counsel patience before slamming Apple.
More than that.
Every copy of Mac OS X comes with a full suite of developer tools, including an IDE, compiler, debugger, resource editors, and on-line reference manual.
The documentation is (as someone else mentioned already) meant for use by people who already know what they're doing, but there are plenty of good books for the developer who wants to get started. I would recommend new developers start with Cocoa Programming For Mac OS X, available at most good book stores. It assumes you know C, and some basic object oriented concepts. It teaches the rest of what a Mac OS X programmer needs to know - the Objective C language, the developer tools, and the most important object classes.
I learned from this book and found it extremely useful. The only real problem I had was that the Xcode tools bundled with Tiger (Mac OS 10.4) are a little different from those bundled with Panther (10.3), which the book is based on. But there aren't that many differences, and it shouldn't be that hard to figure them out.
Vista will sell millions as it is bundled with almost all new personal computers. But anyone with a clue will avoid the product unless they can afford to get the ultimate edition which provides functionality similar to that of OS-X. Microsoft has seriously curtailed the functionality of the system with the "lesser" editions.
At the end of the day, what M$ doesn't seem to understand is that it is selling a f!@#ing operating system. Don't tell me what the f!@#! I am allowed to do with my computer. I don't plan to upgrade to this trash on my PC until XP support is stopped after the next five years. I will probably switch to Linux at that point in time.
I like the tone of your post, angry young man.
Btw, either M$ is unbelievablely stupid or totally smug about their customers.
Either way, the day M$ releases a product that doesn't suck
is probably the day they release a vacuum cleaner.
I think the computer industy as a whole is down. I mean there is only so much one can do with computer software right now. I dont see any innovation coming from the computer industry right now, Apple included.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
Bully for them, but a copy is a copy is a copy.
Always makes me laugh when MS says that someone or another must 'innovate', when they themselves so seldomly do.
I think the computer industy as a whole is down. I mean there is only so much one can do with computer software right now. I dont see any innovation coming from the computer industry right now, Apple included.
... I dont see any innovation coming from the computer industry right now, Apple included.
Yeah, sure... that's why everyone is always copying/following Apple.
iPod, iPhone, OS X... everyone kind of waits around for Apple 'to do it right', then follows along right after. Its a great industry, following Apple, kudos to Microsoft on doing it so well. Anyone want to hook up their iPod-clone Zune to their OS X-clone Vista PC? 8)
Even my PC zealot friends admit that's pretty much the case... finally.
You guys are making my point for me. I say there is no innovation in the computer industy and u all say "look at the iPod and the iPhone." They changed their name from Apple computer and Apple Inc for a reason. Nothing new in innovation in the computer area. Consumer electronics, innovation is everywhere, not just Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
Yeah, sure... that's why everyone is always copying/following Apple.
iPod, iPhone, OS X... everyone kind of waits around for Apple 'to do it right', then follows along right after. Its a great industry, following Apple, kudos to Microsoft on doing it so well. Anyone want to hook up their iPod-clone Zune to their OS X-clone Vista PC? 8)
Even my PC zealot friends admit that's pretty much the case... finally.
Nothing on this phone is new or innovative. These features have been around, even visual voice mail.
Yawn. Another "it's the features" apologist.
It's the interface. That's the product. And yes, what is essentially a palm top computer running a multi-touch interface with the kind of integration and attention to detail that Apple brings to the party is "something new". Just the beginning of quite a few "something news" it seems pretty obvious.
And when Apple once again shakes up the UI world with a different idea about how to interact with their computer and MS gets around to making a fairly clunky copy, people like you will reliably be around to carry on about how Apple fan boys have no right to cry foul if MS adopts some bastardized version of multi-touch because you remember seeing that Jeff Han video and so it was "nothing new" and they "stole it" in the first place.
You guys are making my point for me. I say there is no innovation in the computer industy and u all say "look at the iPod and the iPhone." They changed their name from Apple computer and Apple Inc for a reason. Nothing new in innovation in the computer area. Consumer electronics, innovation is everywhere, not just Apple.
What point would that be again?
You're speaking so vaguely and briefly that no one really knows what you're trying to say here, except that you seem to want to lump the entire worldwide computer tech industry into the same 'innovate-less' boat, which is a bit laughable, unless you're the kind of person who believes that only 'once every 20 years' inventions like the the GUI and the transistor count (and even by that measure, Apple was the first to bring the GUI to the mass market, even if they didn't actually invent it).
I guess if the goal is to make Apple and MS seem on par, innovation-wise, that's about the only way to make the case, but I think most folks know that Apple innovates, and MS follows said innovations. Been that way for 20 years now, why change now? 8)
Seriously though, there are good reasons why that's the case. Its just not in Microsoft's corporate DNA to operate in this way, but it is in Apple's. Apple is a much more design- and UI- and customer-experience focused company than MS is. Unless and until that changes, Apple will continue to innovate, and Microsoft will continue to be a follower.
Ummm... at my business (a very large multinational corporation, btw), the ability to burn DVDs in order to archive some pretty big media files is crucial in my group.
Looks like we won't be upgrading to Vista any time soon, in part because of stuff like this.
.
You can burn DVD/cd's from Explorer. WMP, Itunes, Nero...as for the card games, chess, they're there, but you have to install them from the DVD, which I can understand, as I'd rather not have employees screwing around with Freecell if I was boss.
MS is attempting (very expensively) to create different market segments, and if in doing so, makes them buy Business or Ultimate, they'll make some extra money.
I look at this way - MS ties you to the OS, because everything is so Windows-centric or Apple ties you to the hardware. Still hoping Apple comes out a new Macbook with dedicated video when Leopard comes out, that's the only thing really holding me up - I despise integrated video. That or a mid-range tower for $1200-1500. I think that would over really well.
Yeah dude, I'm using a Treo smartphone with a multi-touch interface right now. Oh wait... I'm not.
Maybe something like the LG Prada you could try to point to, but its going to be a mere shadow of the iPhone's UI, because Apple patented all the good stuff.
You can burn DVD/cd's from Explorer. WMP, Itunes, Nero...as for the card games, chess, they're there, but you have to install them from the DVD, which I can understand, as I'd rather not have employees screwing around with Freecell if I was boss.
MS is attempting (very expensively) to create different market segments, and if in doing so, makes them buy Business or Ultimate, they'll make some extra money.
I look at this way - MS ties you to the OS, because everything is so Windows-centric or Apple ties you to the hardware. Still hoping Apple comes out a new Macbook with dedicated video when Leopard comes out, that's the only thing really holding me up - I despise integrated video. That or a mid-range tower for $1200-1500. I think that would over really well.
I think MS trying to make everyone pony up for Ultimate will 'ultimate-ly' backfire. Its just too expensive, and folks will resent them for being railroaded so obviously. \
Comments
umm most businesses don't want you watching tv, buring dvds, connecting to a xbox, or playing PC games.
Ummm... at my business (a very large multinational corporation, btw), the ability to burn DVDs in order to archive some pretty big media files is crucial in my group.
Looks like we won't be upgrading to Vista any time soon, in part because of stuff like this.
.
umm most businesses don't want you watching tv, buring dvds, connecting to a xbox, or playing PC games.
You didn't actually read my message, did you?
I said for a home power-user.
Of course, no business will care about the media features.
But a home user can't use either of the home editions if he telecommutes, because those editions don't allow you to connect to a domain-based network, and they don't support encryption (which a lot of businesses require for off-site computers.) Home users will want all of the media features, forcing them to buy the Ultimate edition (which is my entire point.)
LOL... no wonder Microsoft refers to Apple as 'R&D South'. They're always playing catch-up to the Cupertino boys.
And what's the current count on how many times has MS been humiliated by their internal e-mails anyway?
.
You didn't actually read my message, did you?
I said for a home power-user.
Of course, no business will care about the media features.
But a home user can't use either of the home editions if he telecommutes, because those editions don't allow you to connect to a domain-based network, and they don't support encryption (which a lot of businesses require for off-site computers.) Home users will want all of the media features, forcing them to buy the Ultimate edition (which is my entire point.)
You appear to be somewhat new here - welcome! As far as supporting development on the Mac, Apple is terrific! When you join ADC, you get all sorts of developer resources, including a development environment (Xcode), SDKs, how-to's, videos, and a whole lot more.
I think it needs to be augmented with a third party book to start out, even for intermediate programmers. The Apple docs I've tried to use are often confusing or inadequate. It doesn't help that their downloadable examples are often not compilable on the latest version of Xcode, I had to get to a different computer to see how or if it works.
www.christiancarsalesman.com
You appear to be somewhat new here - welcome! As far as supporting development on the Mac, Apple is terrific! When you join ADC, you get all sorts of developer resources, including a development environment (Xcode), SDKs, how-to's, videos, and a whole lot more. If you are meaning the iPhone and iPod, I woiuld counsel patience before slamming Apple.
More than that.
Every copy of Mac OS X comes with a full suite of developer tools, including an IDE, compiler, debugger, resource editors, and on-line reference manual.
The documentation is (as someone else mentioned already) meant for use by people who already know what they're doing, but there are plenty of good books for the developer who wants to get started. I would recommend new developers start with Cocoa Programming For Mac OS X, available at most good book stores. It assumes you know C, and some basic object oriented concepts. It teaches the rest of what a Mac OS X programmer needs to know - the Objective C language, the developer tools, and the most important object classes.
I learned from this book and found it extremely useful. The only real problem I had was that the Xcode tools bundled with Tiger (Mac OS 10.4) are a little different from those bundled with Panther (10.3), which the book is based on. But there aren't that many differences, and it shouldn't be that hard to figure them out.
http://www.informationweek.com/windo...leID=197001418
LOL... no wonder Microsoft refers to Apple as 'R&D South'. They're always playing catch-up to the Cupertino boys.
And what's the current count on how many times has MS been humiliated by their internal e-mails anyway?
.
It might also have something to do with the fact that the real money is made microsoft's copies.
Vista will sell millions as it is bundled with almost all new personal computers. But anyone with a clue will avoid the product unless they can afford to get the ultimate edition which provides functionality similar to that of OS-X. Microsoft has seriously curtailed the functionality of the system with the "lesser" editions.
At the end of the day, what M$ doesn't seem to understand is that it is selling a f!@#ing operating system. Don't tell me what the f!@#! I am allowed to do with my computer. I don't plan to upgrade to this trash on my PC until XP support is stopped after the next five years. I will probably switch to Linux at that point in time.
I like the tone of your post, angry young man.
Btw, either M$ is unbelievablely stupid or totally smug about their customers.
Either way, the day M$ releases a product that doesn't suck
is probably the day they release a vacuum cleaner.
Sorry guys, i couldn't resist.
It might also have something to do with the fact that the real money is made microsoft's copies.
Bully for them, but a copy is a copy is a copy.
Always makes me laugh when MS says that someone or another must 'innovate', when they themselves so seldomly do.
.
Bully for them, but a copy is a copy is a copy.
Always makes me laugh when MS says that someone or another must 'innovate', when they themselves so seldomly do.
.
I think the computer industy as a whole is down. I mean there is only so much one can do with computer software right now. I dont see any innovation coming from the computer industry right now, Apple included.
hmm - http://www.apple.com/iphone/ ?
Not innovative enough for you ?
... I dont see any innovation coming from the computer industry right now, Apple included.
Yeah, sure... that's why everyone is always copying/following Apple.
iPod, iPhone, OS X... everyone kind of waits around for Apple 'to do it right', then follows along right after. Its a great industry, following Apple, kudos to Microsoft on doing it so well. Anyone want to hook up their iPod-clone Zune to their OS X-clone Vista PC? 8)
Even my PC zealot friends admit that's pretty much the case... finally.
.
hmm - http://www.apple.com/iphone/ ?
Not innovative enough for you ?
Yeah, sure... that's why everyone is always copying/following Apple.
iPod, iPhone, OS X... everyone kind of waits around for Apple 'to do it right', then follows along right after. Its a great industry, following Apple, kudos to Microsoft on doing it so well. Anyone want to hook up their iPod-clone Zune to their OS X-clone Vista PC? 8)
Even my PC zealot friends admit that's pretty much the case... finally.
.
Nothing on this phone is new or innovative. These features have been around, even visual voice mail.
Yawn. Another "it's the features" apologist.
It's the interface. That's the product. And yes, what is essentially a palm top computer running a multi-touch interface with the kind of integration and attention to detail that Apple brings to the party is "something new". Just the beginning of quite a few "something news" it seems pretty obvious.
And when Apple once again shakes up the UI world with a different idea about how to interact with their computer and MS gets around to making a fairly clunky copy, people like you will reliably be around to carry on about how Apple fan boys have no right to cry foul if MS adopts some bastardized version of multi-touch because you remember seeing that Jeff Han video and so it was "nothing new" and they "stole it" in the first place.
You guys are making my point for me. I say there is no innovation in the computer industy and u all say "look at the iPod and the iPhone." They changed their name from Apple computer and Apple Inc for a reason. Nothing new in innovation in the computer area. Consumer electronics, innovation is everywhere, not just Apple.
What point would that be again?
You're speaking so vaguely and briefly that no one really knows what you're trying to say here, except that you seem to want to lump the entire worldwide computer tech industry into the same 'innovate-less' boat, which is a bit laughable, unless you're the kind of person who believes that only 'once every 20 years' inventions like the the GUI and the transistor count (and even by that measure, Apple was the first to bring the GUI to the mass market, even if they didn't actually invent it).
I guess if the goal is to make Apple and MS seem on par, innovation-wise, that's about the only way to make the case, but I think most folks know that Apple innovates, and MS follows said innovations. Been that way for 20 years now, why change now? 8)
Seriously though, there are good reasons why that's the case. Its just not in Microsoft's corporate DNA to operate in this way, but it is in Apple's. Apple is a much more design- and UI- and customer-experience focused company than MS is. Unless and until that changes, Apple will continue to innovate, and Microsoft will continue to be a follower.
.
Ummm... at my business (a very large multinational corporation, btw), the ability to burn DVDs in order to archive some pretty big media files is crucial in my group.
Looks like we won't be upgrading to Vista any time soon, in part because of stuff like this.
.
You can burn DVD/cd's from Explorer. WMP, Itunes, Nero...as for the card games, chess, they're there, but you have to install them from the DVD, which I can understand, as I'd rather not have employees screwing around with Freecell if I was boss.
MS is attempting (very expensively) to create different market segments, and if in doing so, makes them buy Business or Ultimate, they'll make some extra money.
I look at this way - MS ties you to the OS, because everything is so Windows-centric or Apple ties you to the hardware. Still hoping Apple comes out a new Macbook with dedicated video when Leopard comes out, that's the only thing really holding me up - I despise integrated video. That or a mid-range tower for $1200-1500. I think that would over really well.
Nothing on this phone is new or innovative.
Yeah dude, I'm using a Treo smartphone with a multi-touch interface right now. Oh wait... I'm not.
Maybe something like the LG Prada you could try to point to, but its going to be a mere shadow of the iPhone's UI, because Apple patented all the good stuff.
.
You can burn DVD/cd's from Explorer. WMP, Itunes, Nero...as for the card games, chess, they're there, but you have to install them from the DVD, which I can understand, as I'd rather not have employees screwing around with Freecell if I was boss.
MS is attempting (very expensively) to create different market segments, and if in doing so, makes them buy Business or Ultimate, they'll make some extra money.
I look at this way - MS ties you to the OS, because everything is so Windows-centric or Apple ties you to the hardware. Still hoping Apple comes out a new Macbook with dedicated video when Leopard comes out, that's the only thing really holding me up - I despise integrated video. That or a mid-range tower for $1200-1500. I think that would over really well.
I think MS trying to make everyone pony up for Ultimate will 'ultimate-ly' backfire. Its just too expensive, and folks will resent them for being railroaded so obviously.
.