I disagree totally. The US companies may need to get bigger and bigger - but merging within the US only builds monopoly power, which is bad for many reasons. We need several options for competition to work effectively otherwise it all comes down to regulatory control which does not have the same pressures to improve.
If a telcos say they have to merge to grow - why not merge with a European Telco? or an Asian Telco? Telstra (in Australia) is a controlled monopoly - I'd rather that Telstra sold off 50% of its business to a big US competitor, AND used the money earned from that to buy a smaller US competitor (for example).
All that said - sure AT&T is getting back to its original size - but do you still have multiple options available to you in any given market? The key to competition is not needing to use AT&T at all if you don't want to.
It's very difficult for a US company to merge with a European company. Europe is very insular. Many countries will do anything they can to prevent that. Some countries, particularly France, and Italy will force their own companies to merge to prevent even other European companies from buying them. The French call it creating a National Champion. So, if a European company wants to buy an American firm, that would be ok with them. But when an American firm wants to buy an European firm, it's not.
This isn't always true, or course, but it's happened numerous times in the past 15 years or so.
Mercedes "merged" with Chrysler, but I don't think it would have been as easy if Chrysler wanted to take Mercedes over. France forced two French drug companies to merge, despite the fact that it was a bad business deal, rather than having either one taken over by a German company. Volkswagen is "protected" by the German government from being taken over. This is true in many places.
Telecommunications is an area that they protect very strongly.
Many European companies are being propped up with illegal subsidies that the EU doesn't even allow! But, it's done anyway.
American companies find it hard to compete, much less buy a majority stake, as European companies do here. Same thing is true for Japan, S Korea, China, etc.
But, that's not true. While I don't use CE or Symbian, the Palm has all of the relevent API's. Show me differently.
Yes Palm has API's I'm not arguing that. I'm saying iPhone uses Cocoa which is a higher development platform.
As evidenced Palm OS is up for license but no one wants it and Palm itself is using Windows Mobile.
Quote:
That means nothing. It's just the interface, which while great, doesn't give it any more computing abilities.
The interface is everything. That's the starting point from how all software will function. That is what made the GUI such an important development.
Multi-touch introduces new way simplify the use of complex actions. Instead of having to deal with proxy controls that manipulate software. You actually touch the software and controls themselves.
Quote:
My Palm can be used on the internet. I can buy any program anyone cares to write for it. I can get full sized keyboards. It can print to printers. I can listen to music or watch video. I can do my own programming if I become a developer. It has a camera, and I can manipulate the images, with the proper program.
Yes but their functionality and ease of use are not much like that of their desktop equivalents. From what we've seen iPhone apps are much like their desktop equivalents. The look, feel, and operation of Safari on iPhone was pretty much exactly like Safari for Mac. Mail for iPhone appeared to have 90% of the functionality of Mail on the Mac. Google Earth on the iPhone was exactly like Google Earth for the desktop. This functionality comes directly from OS X and the iPhones interface.
Quote:
I don't know what that's supposed to mean. It seems as though the vision is limited to a smartphone right now.
Its likely Apple wants to implement a discipline of strict control of iPhone app development, to ensure that apps make the most efficient and easy use of the devices size and multi-touch capability. A free for all of app development would not maintain such a strict control.
Quote:
It's not more than a phone right now. When it comes out, what will we be able to get with it? How many programs will be available? What kinds? Will Apple limit them to what Apple thinks we should have? What about keyboards, printers, exchanging information, programs, and phone data wirelessly? Will we be able to do that?
I have drawing programs, which I use when barnstorming ideas. How can I do something like that on the iPhone, with just finger touch?
That is true we do not know how far Apple will open the iPhone or what they will allow third parties to develop. But that is not my point. My point is that the technology in the iPhone is potentially able to do all of those things. Whether Apple will allow the iPhone to do them is another issue.
Apple could allow a stylus pad to be attached to the iPhone and handwriting through Ink Well. The technology is there.
AT&T was not as bad as you guys are making it out to be, Momma Bell was a regulated monopoly. The Bell System was limited to 12% profit. All its advances were made available outside the company. The semiconductor invention was a profit to the company in that it was integrated into equipment, reducing cost and lowering rates. The transistor was developed in Bell Labs. In 1953, five years after it was developed, the transistor was licensed to Akio Morita for $25,000, who began to sell transistor radios two years later. In 1957, he changed the company name to Sony.
UNIX was developed in Bell Labs and open source. The Bell System was forbidden to enter the computer industry. They posed no threat to emerging companies such as Microsoft, Apple, and Intel.
On Feb 27th, 1975, there was a fire at the E13th St (2nd Ave) NY Tel switch center. All telephone equipment was destroyed. 300 city blocks were without any phone service. In an era before cell phones and only rudimentary telecom satellites like Telstar (another Bell Labs invention), estimates were that service would not be restored for at least a year.
A command center was set up in a store on E14th St. Western electric began to ship equipment the next morning. Two crews of 2000 each worked 12 hour shifts. The 6 hospitals and the fire and police stations got service in 24 hours. Total service was restored in 22 days.
Yes Palm has API's I'm not arguing that. I'm saying iPhone uses Cocoa which is a higher development platform.
Maybe so, but it's also a lot more overhead. It's also questionable as to what advantage it would have for something such as this. If Apple came out with an Origami-like product, it would be different.
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As evidenced Palm OS is up for license but no one wants it and Palm itself is using Windows Mobile.
No doubt that Palm made many mistakes over the years, but so has Apple. The world is still Windows, even Apple is making it easy to run. They realize it as well as Palm does. BVut if Apple came out with a Windows computer, it could kill the company because of the speculation.
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The interface is everything. That's the starting point from how all software will function. That is what made the GUI such an important development.
The interfact is just one part of the whole. The hardware is at least as important. So far, we don't know much about what it can do, other than the phone demo's.
Quote:
Multi-touch introduces new way simplify the use of complex actions. Instead of having to deal with proxy controls that manipulate software. You actually touch the software and controls themselves.
The screens on these tiny devices are anything but complex. That's been their problem. Would you want to use a 480 x 320 screen on your computer, multi-touch or not? I sure as hell wouldn't.
I really have no idea what you're talking about when you say proxy controls. How is multi-touch simpler to the software than using a stylus? If anything, it's more complex, and has an additional layer of control and interpretation that has to be dealt with. You don't touch the software any more than you do with a stylus. But, now you can't make those very fine distinctions between small points on importance. The software must be written to be so simple on the screen that much sophistication might be lost.
If you type a short paragraph, and notice an error only when reading it back, how do you correct it? With the stylus, I touch behind the letter make a short sweep leftward, and just write the letter on the screen. How will that work here where the letters are so small that you can't select them with your finger? Are you going to have to move up letter by letter and line by line with a curser until you hit that letter?
It looks as though it might make simple actions complex.
What about my drawing programs? how do they do that?
Quote:
Yes but their functionality and ease of use are not much like that of their desktop equivalents. From what we've seen iPhone apps are much like their desktop equivalents. The look, feel, and operation of Safari on iPhone was pretty much exactly like Safari for Mac. Mail for iPhone appeared to have 90% of the functionality of Mail on the Mac. Google Earth on the iPhone was exactly like Google Earth for the desktop. This functionality comes directly from OS X and the iPhones interface.
If you can use an app with just the mouse, it should work fine here. But what about more complex apps?
Quote:
Its likely Apple wants to implement a discipline of strict control of iPhone app development, to ensure that apps make the most efficient and easy use of the devices size and multi-touch capability. A free for all of app development would not maintain such a strict control.
Yes, that's obvious. That's what I don't like about Jobs. He wants to control everything. This is one area where MS is better. You don't see them controlling the apps on their phone OS's.
He also gives flimsy excuses for it. He wants the control, and possibly a royalty as well. But, he uses the excuse that these apps might bring the phone network down. That's a lot of cr*p!. I've never heard of a phone app bringing any cell network down. If that ever happened, the cell companies would prevent apps from running. They wouldn't wait for Jobs to come save them.
It's up to the market to decide which apps make the best use of the phones API's, and IP. We might love apps that Jobs decides aren't suitable, but we'll never know.
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That is true we do not know how far Apple will open the iPhone or what they will allow third parties to develop. But that is not my point. My point is that the technology in the iPhone is potentially able to do all of those things. Whether Apple will allow the iPhone to do them is another issue.
Apple could allow a stylus pad to be attached to the iPhone and handwriting through Ink Well. The technology is there.
Until we know how open this phone is, and Jobs was circumspect about that, we can't decide how good a "computer" it will be. We consider computers to be able to run whatever anyone makes. If it is too limited, then it isn't a computer, it is an appliance, with with an embedded cpu that does just what the manufacturer builts in.
We were told that it only accepts finger input. No stylus at all.
Apple and ATT restrict what you can do with the phone and worse - they disable it (so you must throw your $500 in the crapper) when you stop paying the monthly extortion.
I wasn't aware that once you stop paying for your phone contract, the iPhone stops working as an iPod. Is that the case? You can't use it as an iPod and might as well chuck it?
I wasn't aware that once you stop paying for your phone contract, the iPhone stops working as an iPod. Is that the case? You can't use it as an iPod and might as well chuck it?
I would imagine that you could use it for everything other than for the phone and internet functions. Though it's possible that the WiFi might be tied to that as well.
I really have no idea what you're talking about when you say proxy controls.
Proxy controls are having to move and click a mouse that represents a pointer. The pointer is used to touch on screen buttons, sliders, and rubber bands. Multi-touch goes around this to allow your finger to directly touch and manipulate the buttons, sliders, or rubber bands.
On the Blackberry and Motorola Q their is a scroll/click wheel that compliments this function.
Quote:
If you type a short paragraph, and notice an error only when reading it back, how do you correct it? With the stylus, I touch behind the letter make a short sweep leftward, and just write the letter on the screen. How will that work here where the letters are so small that you can't select them with your finger? Are you going to have to move up letter by letter and line by line with a curser until you hit that letter?
Apple is pretty imaginative they may come up with something. Its possible you can touch a misspelled work in a paragraph. The word is highlighted and enlarged to ensure it is the word you intend, which will allow you to retype the word or move on to another. But certainly I don't know we will have to wait and see.
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If you can use an app with just the mouse, it should work fine here. But what about more complex apps?
That is what I was saying earlier is that multi-touch could make using more complex apps easier. Its possible it just takes imagination.
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Yes, that's obvious. That's what I don't like about Jobs. He wants to control everything.
Yes that does have its pluses and minuses. So far his strategy has had a successful stewardship. I would cite Origami as an example of the weakness of MS strategy. No one seemed to question the purpose and real world usability of desktop apps on a 4" screen. Which is partially why the strategy has not worked.
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He also gives flimsy excuses for it
Yeah the bad that goes along with the good. But its possible some new information may come to light that helps these statements make more sense.
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We were told that it only accepts finger input. No stylus at all.
No stylus on the iPhone screen itself. Which I think is fine as the QWERTY keyboard has proven far more popular than the stylus. But he did not definitively say there would be no third party add on of stylus input.
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Until we know how open this phone is, and Jobs was circumspect about that, we can't decide how good a "computer" it will be. We consider computers to be able to run whatever anyone makes. If it is too limited, then it isn't a computer, it is an appliance, with with an embedded cpu that does just what the manufacturer builts in.
I agree. I'm only saying there is a great deal of potential.
I had the service rep tell me point blank, that when I make a phone call to someone else's cell on my plan (had free mobile to mobile), between 9am to 9pm, they took that out of my anytime minutes - not my m2m minutes. If that isn't crooked, I don't know what is.
Don't the m2m part of most plans stipulate that the other mobile must be from the same carrier?
when I make a phone call to someone else's cell on my plan (had free mobile to mobile), between 9am to 9pm, they took that out of my anytime minutes - not my m2m minutes. If that isn't crooked, I don't know what is.
That is the point of mobile to mobile and how works for every carrier.
Most of the phones and PDAs currently available have about the power of a personal computer of maybe ten years ago. Apple isn't saying what they are using, but I don't think they are using anything siginificantly different. The graphics and user input will certainly be smoother, but I don't think that alone necessarily makes it cross over into what is considered a computer.
The fact that Apple seems to be saying that they will excercise some amount of control over what software goes onto a user's phone in at least one way makes it more like a mobile WebTV console.
That is the point of mobile to mobile and how works for every carrier.
Are you sure? I don't think that makes sense. For any calls after 9pm, I already get unlimited minutes regardless of who calls me or who I call, so how would free mobile to mobile make any difference if I can't use them during the day and the unlimited minutes in the evening are already covered?
From what I understood Wally was saying calls made between 9am and 9pm to carriers outside of your own would be charged to your anytime minutes not your mobile to mobile. I'm saying yes that's how it works.
I'm not sure how unlimited minutes came into the discussion.
From what I understood Wally was saying calls made between 9am and 9pm to carriers outside of your own would be charged to your anytime minutes not your mobile to mobile. I'm saying yes that's how it works.
He wasn't clear as to whether the other person was of the same carrier or not, that's why I asked.
Are you sure? I don't think that makes sense. For any calls after 9pm, I already get unlimited minutes regardless of who calls me or who I call, so how would free mobile to mobile make any difference if I can't use them during the day and the unlimited minutes in the evening are already covered?
Here's the quote from the cingular term and conditions. Sometimes its good to read these. So as I read this Cingular's isn't even nation wide for m2m, just within your calling area.
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Mobile to Mobile Minutes: Mobile to Mobile Minutes may be used, subject to the above provisions governing unlimited usage, when directly dialing or receiving calls from any other Cingular phone number from within your calling area. Mobile to Mobile Minutes may not be used for interconnection to other networks. Calls to Cingular Voicemail and return calls from Voicemail not included.
I've always understood that any calls I make to another T-Mobile customer with my phone are free for me. I've never thought that I can call someone with any other carrier (like my fiancee' with her Verizon phone) and get a free call.
I would imagine that you could use it for everything other than for the phone and internet functions. Though it's possible that the WiFi might be tied to that as well.
If you dropped Cingular, I would say the internet would continue to function through wifi, as it does when using Cingular. Hopefully we'll see some ways of changing providers before long, too.
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
he did not definitively say there would be no third party add on of stylus input.
No, he didn't say definitively. However, the type of touch screen used can not sense input from plastic etc, just fingers. That would make a 3rd party stylus complicated.
The other half of this is 'advanced to what user'? I still believe that Apple's strategy is not to 'take' part of the current smart phone market but to create/access a new easy-to-use smart phone market!! This market is potentially larger than the current smart market and, believe me, there are plenty of people out there that will pay $100's of dollars for something that they can easily use but these same people wouldn't put that money out for the current crop of phones.
Yes, those people are called mac fanatics, not general public. These people (if other than mac fanatics) that prefer ease of use, where are they?.. cause apple would like them to get off their butts and buy computers!!!. Microsoft still has over 80% worldwide marketshare
Comments
Vinea
* In its past glory. Bell Labs is still around but IMHO a pale shadow of itself after Lucent. Heck, Xerox PARC is still PHYSICALLY around.
I disagree totally. The US companies may need to get bigger and bigger - but merging within the US only builds monopoly power, which is bad for many reasons. We need several options for competition to work effectively otherwise it all comes down to regulatory control which does not have the same pressures to improve.
If a telcos say they have to merge to grow - why not merge with a European Telco? or an Asian Telco? Telstra (in Australia) is a controlled monopoly - I'd rather that Telstra sold off 50% of its business to a big US competitor, AND used the money earned from that to buy a smaller US competitor (for example).
All that said - sure AT&T is getting back to its original size - but do you still have multiple options available to you in any given market? The key to competition is not needing to use AT&T at all if you don't want to.
It's very difficult for a US company to merge with a European company. Europe is very insular. Many countries will do anything they can to prevent that. Some countries, particularly France, and Italy will force their own companies to merge to prevent even other European companies from buying them. The French call it creating a National Champion. So, if a European company wants to buy an American firm, that would be ok with them. But when an American firm wants to buy an European firm, it's not.
This isn't always true, or course, but it's happened numerous times in the past 15 years or so.
Mercedes "merged" with Chrysler, but I don't think it would have been as easy if Chrysler wanted to take Mercedes over. France forced two French drug companies to merge, despite the fact that it was a bad business deal, rather than having either one taken over by a German company. Volkswagen is "protected" by the German government from being taken over. This is true in many places.
Telecommunications is an area that they protect very strongly.
Many European companies are being propped up with illegal subsidies that the EU doesn't even allow! But, it's done anyway.
American companies find it hard to compete, much less buy a majority stake, as European companies do here. Same thing is true for Japan, S Korea, China, etc.
It's a one way deal.
Well, if they bring back Bell Labs* it's a plus for the US. Do we even have any labs like that anymore?
Vinea
* In its past glory. Bell Labs is still around but IMHO a pale shadow of itself after Lucent. Heck, Xerox PARC is still PHYSICALLY around.
I think IBM's is about it. PARC still exists, but as Zerox ain't what it used to be, neither is PARC.
But, that's not true. While I don't use CE or Symbian, the Palm has all of the relevent API's. Show me differently.
Yes Palm has API's I'm not arguing that. I'm saying iPhone uses Cocoa which is a higher development platform.
As evidenced Palm OS is up for license but no one wants it and Palm itself is using Windows Mobile.
That means nothing. It's just the interface, which while great, doesn't give it any more computing abilities.
The interface is everything. That's the starting point from how all software will function. That is what made the GUI such an important development.
Multi-touch introduces new way simplify the use of complex actions. Instead of having to deal with proxy controls that manipulate software. You actually touch the software and controls themselves.
My Palm can be used on the internet. I can buy any program anyone cares to write for it. I can get full sized keyboards. It can print to printers. I can listen to music or watch video. I can do my own programming if I become a developer. It has a camera, and I can manipulate the images, with the proper program.
Yes but their functionality and ease of use are not much like that of their desktop equivalents. From what we've seen iPhone apps are much like their desktop equivalents. The look, feel, and operation of Safari on iPhone was pretty much exactly like Safari for Mac. Mail for iPhone appeared to have 90% of the functionality of Mail on the Mac. Google Earth on the iPhone was exactly like Google Earth for the desktop. This functionality comes directly from OS X and the iPhones interface.
I don't know what that's supposed to mean. It seems as though the vision is limited to a smartphone right now.
Its likely Apple wants to implement a discipline of strict control of iPhone app development, to ensure that apps make the most efficient and easy use of the devices size and multi-touch capability. A free for all of app development would not maintain such a strict control.
It's not more than a phone right now. When it comes out, what will we be able to get with it? How many programs will be available? What kinds? Will Apple limit them to what Apple thinks we should have? What about keyboards, printers, exchanging information, programs, and phone data wirelessly? Will we be able to do that?
I have drawing programs, which I use when barnstorming ideas. How can I do something like that on the iPhone, with just finger touch?
That is true we do not know how far Apple will open the iPhone or what they will allow third parties to develop. But that is not my point. My point is that the technology in the iPhone is potentially able to do all of those things. Whether Apple will allow the iPhone to do them is another issue.
Apple could allow a stylus pad to be attached to the iPhone and handwriting through Ink Well. The technology is there.
UNIX was developed in Bell Labs and open source. The Bell System was forbidden to enter the computer industry. They posed no threat to emerging companies such as Microsoft, Apple, and Intel.
On Feb 27th, 1975, there was a fire at the E13th St (2nd Ave) NY Tel switch center. All telephone equipment was destroyed. 300 city blocks were without any phone service. In an era before cell phones and only rudimentary telecom satellites like Telstar (another Bell Labs invention), estimates were that service would not be restored for at least a year.
A command center was set up in a store on E14th St. Western electric began to ship equipment the next morning. Two crews of 2000 each worked 12 hour shifts. The 6 hospitals and the fire and police stations got service in 24 hours. Total service was restored in 22 days.
Yes Palm has API's I'm not arguing that. I'm saying iPhone uses Cocoa which is a higher development platform.
Maybe so, but it's also a lot more overhead. It's also questionable as to what advantage it would have for something such as this. If Apple came out with an Origami-like product, it would be different.
As evidenced Palm OS is up for license but no one wants it and Palm itself is using Windows Mobile.
No doubt that Palm made many mistakes over the years, but so has Apple. The world is still Windows, even Apple is making it easy to run. They realize it as well as Palm does. BVut if Apple came out with a Windows computer, it could kill the company because of the speculation.
The interface is everything. That's the starting point from how all software will function. That is what made the GUI such an important development.
The interfact is just one part of the whole. The hardware is at least as important. So far, we don't know much about what it can do, other than the phone demo's.
Multi-touch introduces new way simplify the use of complex actions. Instead of having to deal with proxy controls that manipulate software. You actually touch the software and controls themselves.
The screens on these tiny devices are anything but complex. That's been their problem. Would you want to use a 480 x 320 screen on your computer, multi-touch or not? I sure as hell wouldn't.
I really have no idea what you're talking about when you say proxy controls. How is multi-touch simpler to the software than using a stylus? If anything, it's more complex, and has an additional layer of control and interpretation that has to be dealt with. You don't touch the software any more than you do with a stylus. But, now you can't make those very fine distinctions between small points on importance. The software must be written to be so simple on the screen that much sophistication might be lost.
If you type a short paragraph, and notice an error only when reading it back, how do you correct it? With the stylus, I touch behind the letter make a short sweep leftward, and just write the letter on the screen. How will that work here where the letters are so small that you can't select them with your finger? Are you going to have to move up letter by letter and line by line with a curser until you hit that letter?
It looks as though it might make simple actions complex.
What about my drawing programs? how do they do that?
Yes but their functionality and ease of use are not much like that of their desktop equivalents. From what we've seen iPhone apps are much like their desktop equivalents. The look, feel, and operation of Safari on iPhone was pretty much exactly like Safari for Mac. Mail for iPhone appeared to have 90% of the functionality of Mail on the Mac. Google Earth on the iPhone was exactly like Google Earth for the desktop. This functionality comes directly from OS X and the iPhones interface.
If you can use an app with just the mouse, it should work fine here. But what about more complex apps?
Its likely Apple wants to implement a discipline of strict control of iPhone app development, to ensure that apps make the most efficient and easy use of the devices size and multi-touch capability. A free for all of app development would not maintain such a strict control.
Yes, that's obvious. That's what I don't like about Jobs. He wants to control everything. This is one area where MS is better. You don't see them controlling the apps on their phone OS's.
He also gives flimsy excuses for it. He wants the control, and possibly a royalty as well. But, he uses the excuse that these apps might bring the phone network down. That's a lot of cr*p!. I've never heard of a phone app bringing any cell network down. If that ever happened, the cell companies would prevent apps from running. They wouldn't wait for Jobs to come save them.
It's up to the market to decide which apps make the best use of the phones API's, and IP. We might love apps that Jobs decides aren't suitable, but we'll never know.
That is true we do not know how far Apple will open the iPhone or what they will allow third parties to develop. But that is not my point. My point is that the technology in the iPhone is potentially able to do all of those things. Whether Apple will allow the iPhone to do them is another issue.
Apple could allow a stylus pad to be attached to the iPhone and handwriting through Ink Well. The technology is there.
Until we know how open this phone is, and Jobs was circumspect about that, we can't decide how good a "computer" it will be. We consider computers to be able to run whatever anyone makes. If it is too limited, then it isn't a computer, it is an appliance, with with an embedded cpu that does just what the manufacturer builts in.
We were told that it only accepts finger input. No stylus at all.
Apple and ATT restrict what you can do with the phone and worse - they disable it (so you must throw your $500 in the crapper) when you stop paying the monthly extortion.
I wasn't aware that once you stop paying for your phone contract, the iPhone stops working as an iPod. Is that the case? You can't use it as an iPod and might as well chuck it?
I wasn't aware that once you stop paying for your phone contract, the iPhone stops working as an iPod. Is that the case? You can't use it as an iPod and might as well chuck it?
I would imagine that you could use it for everything other than for the phone and internet functions. Though it's possible that the WiFi might be tied to that as well.
I really have no idea what you're talking about when you say proxy controls.
Proxy controls are having to move and click a mouse that represents a pointer. The pointer is used to touch on screen buttons, sliders, and rubber bands. Multi-touch goes around this to allow your finger to directly touch and manipulate the buttons, sliders, or rubber bands.
On the Blackberry and Motorola Q their is a scroll/click wheel that compliments this function.
If you type a short paragraph, and notice an error only when reading it back, how do you correct it? With the stylus, I touch behind the letter make a short sweep leftward, and just write the letter on the screen. How will that work here where the letters are so small that you can't select them with your finger? Are you going to have to move up letter by letter and line by line with a curser until you hit that letter?
Apple is pretty imaginative they may come up with something. Its possible you can touch a misspelled work in a paragraph. The word is highlighted and enlarged to ensure it is the word you intend, which will allow you to retype the word or move on to another. But certainly I don't know we will have to wait and see.
If you can use an app with just the mouse, it should work fine here. But what about more complex apps?
That is what I was saying earlier is that multi-touch could make using more complex apps easier. Its possible it just takes imagination.
Yes, that's obvious. That's what I don't like about Jobs. He wants to control everything.
Yes that does have its pluses and minuses. So far his strategy has had a successful stewardship. I would cite Origami as an example of the weakness of MS strategy. No one seemed to question the purpose and real world usability of desktop apps on a 4" screen. Which is partially why the strategy has not worked.
He also gives flimsy excuses for it
Yeah the bad that goes along with the good. But its possible some new information may come to light that helps these statements make more sense.
We were told that it only accepts finger input. No stylus at all.
No stylus on the iPhone screen itself. Which I think is fine as the QWERTY keyboard has proven far more popular than the stylus. But he did not definitively say there would be no third party add on of stylus input.
Until we know how open this phone is, and Jobs was circumspect about that, we can't decide how good a "computer" it will be. We consider computers to be able to run whatever anyone makes. If it is too limited, then it isn't a computer, it is an appliance, with with an embedded cpu that does just what the manufacturer builts in.
I agree. I'm only saying there is a great deal of potential.
I had the service rep tell me point blank, that when I make a phone call to someone else's cell on my plan (had free mobile to mobile), between 9am to 9pm, they took that out of my anytime minutes - not my m2m minutes. If that isn't crooked, I don't know what is.
Don't the m2m part of most plans stipulate that the other mobile must be from the same carrier?
when I make a phone call to someone else's cell on my plan (had free mobile to mobile), between 9am to 9pm, they took that out of my anytime minutes - not my m2m minutes. If that isn't crooked, I don't know what is.
That is the point of mobile to mobile and how works for every carrier.
Average phone = phone + PDA functions
Treo 700p = PDA + phone
iPhone = computer + phone
Most of the phones and PDAs currently available have about the power of a personal computer of maybe ten years ago. Apple isn't saying what they are using, but I don't think they are using anything siginificantly different. The graphics and user input will certainly be smoother, but I don't think that alone necessarily makes it cross over into what is considered a computer.
The fact that Apple seems to be saying that they will excercise some amount of control over what software goes onto a user's phone in at least one way makes it more like a mobile WebTV console.
That is the point of mobile to mobile and how works for every carrier.
Are you sure? I don't think that makes sense. For any calls after 9pm, I already get unlimited minutes regardless of who calls me or who I call, so how would free mobile to mobile make any difference if I can't use them during the day and the unlimited minutes in the evening are already covered?
I'm not sure how unlimited minutes came into the discussion.
From what I understood Wally was saying calls made between 9am and 9pm to carriers outside of your own would be charged to your anytime minutes not your mobile to mobile. I'm saying yes that's how it works.
He wasn't clear as to whether the other person was of the same carrier or not, that's why I asked.
Are you sure? I don't think that makes sense. For any calls after 9pm, I already get unlimited minutes regardless of who calls me or who I call, so how would free mobile to mobile make any difference if I can't use them during the day and the unlimited minutes in the evening are already covered?
Here's the quote from the cingular term and conditions. Sometimes its good to read these. So as I read this Cingular's isn't even nation wide for m2m, just within your calling area.
Mobile to Mobile Minutes: Mobile to Mobile Minutes may be used, subject to the above provisions governing unlimited usage, when directly dialing or receiving calls from any other Cingular phone number from within your calling area. Mobile to Mobile Minutes may not be used for interconnection to other networks. Calls to Cingular Voicemail and return calls from Voicemail not included.
I would imagine that you could use it for everything other than for the phone and internet functions. Though it's possible that the WiFi might be tied to that as well.
If you dropped Cingular, I would say the internet would continue to function through wifi, as it does when using Cingular. Hopefully we'll see some ways of changing providers before long, too.
he did not definitively say there would be no third party add on of stylus input.
No, he didn't say definitively. However, the type of touch screen used can not sense input from plastic etc, just fingers. That would make a 3rd party stylus complicated.
The other half of this is 'advanced to what user'? I still believe that Apple's strategy is not to 'take' part of the current smart phone market but to create/access a new easy-to-use smart phone market!! This market is potentially larger than the current smart market and, believe me, there are plenty of people out there that will pay $100's of dollars for something that they can easily use but these same people wouldn't put that money out for the current crop of phones.
Yes, those people are called mac fanatics, not general public. These people (if other than mac fanatics) that prefer ease of use, where are they?.. cause apple would like them to get off their butts and buy computers!!!. Microsoft still has over 80% worldwide marketshare