Rap: Stick a fork in it

Posted:
in AppleOutsider edited January 2014
No top ten for you!



While I have no doubt that there are still innovative rappers and rap groups out there doing great music and also doing positive music, but as a genre, as a whole, it is played out and done. We are now on the third cousin of the third cousin having a record deal. You can practically spit out the lyrics to the songs before they are released, even if you have never heard them before.



This is a good thing in my book for a couple reasons. First rap has pretty much killed R&B and turned it into some sort of "adult contemporary" nonsense. What sort of sad planet do we live on where Justin Timberlake is a R&B singer? How sad is it that the concept of a black pop performer is pretty much foreign and when they do happen to get played, they have to "rent-a-rapper" in order to be urban enough?



It is neat to see a new genre added, but sad when that genre becomes all encompassing. Most young black people I know listen to absolutely nothing BUT rap. I can find a huge array of music among my hispanic friends, from rock en espanol, to banda to great mixes of loads of different styles. However the black music scene has boiled itself down to rap and whoever R. Kelly, or Beyonce, Rhianna, copycats to be named later happens to sing with.



Thoughts?



Nick
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 56
    cosmonutcosmonut Posts: 4,872member
    I think rap has a good place so long as they rap about...something. Lately the rap scene has dwindled itself down to talking about how much the rappers love to have sex, spend money, and party. Yawn.



    Eminem actually had some promise, but I got tired of hearing him whine about his personal life.



    I bought Fort Minor's album "The Rising Tied" last year and have been pretty pleased with it. At least there's some substance to it. Sure, the first track is a "this is who we are" kind of thing, but all artists need one of those. The rest of the album is tight, including a song featuring John Legend.
  • Reply 2 of 56
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Pop music is shallow. What a revelation.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


    You can practically spit out the lyrics to the songs before they are released, even if you have never heard them before.



    Welcome to pop music.

    Quote:

    How sad is it that the concept of a black pop performer is pretty much foreign



    WTF does skin color have to do with it?

    Quote:

    Most young black people I know listen to absolutely nothing BUT rap.



    The same can be said about millions of white, asian, indian and arab young people on every continent.

    Quote:

    However the black music scene



    The "black music scene" is exaggeration through marketing. While black artists make up the largest ethnic group in popular hip hop, there has never been a shortage of non-black producers, rappers, singers, djs, b-boys or graff artists, and in some of those disciplines blacks are a minority. In fact, even today many of the biggest pop rap tracks are produced or performed by artists who aren't black, even though the pop industry is heavily skewed toward black artists. It only gets more diverse as you look past the pop acts. Non-pop hip hop is extremely diverse in style and there doesn't seem to be any dominant ethnicity.



    Furthermore, even though people like to pretend that there is such a thing as "black music," often the only difference between a black artist and any other artist is skin color. If Beyonce, Christina Aguilera and/or Nelly Furtado swapped ethnicities no one listening to their music would notice.



    As for the audience, they are just like any other typical pop music audience.
  • Reply 3 of 56
    hardeeharharhardeeharhar Posts: 4,841member
    It always disturbs me how easily Nick slips into over generalizations about racial groups other than his own...
  • Reply 4 of 56
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,061member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post


    It always disturbs me how easily Nick slips into over generalizations about racial groups other than his own...



    You guys just don't quit, do you?
  • Reply 5 of 56
    marcukmarcuk Posts: 4,442member
    its not all bad - we need more music like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuh-VylQy9s
  • Reply 6 of 56
    hardeeharharhardeeharhar Posts: 4,841member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    You guys just don't quit, do you?



    Is my statement false?
  • Reply 7 of 56
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,461member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post


    Is my statement false?



    Actually yes it is false.



    giant to his credit, did what I asked. His thoughts were given and though he disagrees with me very strongly, he didn't have to take the thread and somehow make it about me.



    You added nothing and show exactly why the /ignore list is your domain.



    Nick
  • Reply 8 of 56
    maimezvousmaimezvous Posts: 802member
    At my high school it appears to me that Nick is right to a point. The flaw is that a majority of people, not just one minority, only listen to rap or R&B.
  • Reply 9 of 56
    hardeeharharhardeeharhar Posts: 4,841member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


    Actually yes it is false.



    giant to his credit, did what I asked. His thoughts were given and though he disagrees with me very strongly, he didn't have to take the thread and somehow make it about me.



    You added nothing and show exactly why the /ignore list is your domain.



    Nick



    Do you actually believe that you don't generalize about people of [enter sex, sexuality, race, ethnicity differing from your own]?



    I have a new purpose in life... to point out everytime you do it... (not really, but it wouldn't be hard at all)...
  • Reply 10 of 56
    flounderflounder Posts: 2,674member
    I find it weird that people get worked up at all about what music anyone prefers.



    Live and let live, I say. People can listen to whatever music they want. I could care less, and care less what people think it reveals/says/whatever about society etc.
  • Reply 11 of 56
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,461member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post


    Do you actually believe that you don't generalize about people of [enter sex, sexuality, race, ethnicity differing from your own]?



    I have a new purpose in life... to point out everytime you do it... (not really, but it wouldn't be hard at all)...



    Enjoy your new purpose.



    Now try commenting on the topic of the thread instead of on me. Try PM's if you feel the need to speak to me about what I do instead of about the topic of the thread.



    Thanks,



    Nick
  • Reply 12 of 56
    hardeeharharhardeeharhar Posts: 4,841member
    Why rap?



    Why not polka?



    Music preferences change. The most popular stuff is vapid, much like the people buying it.



    Rap has changed the music industry and its musical DNA has spread into other genres... It will fade like polka into the woodwork, certainly, but its positive and negative effects will be lasting...
  • Reply 13 of 56
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post


    Do you actually believe that you don't generalize about people of [enter sex, sexuality, race, ethnicity differing from your own]?



    What's so bad about generalization? As long as we realize that exceptions can exist, there's no harm in it. Generalization is a completely sensical child of observation. Generalization is, in fact, rational and scientific. Pointing out that the rap on the radio is extremely homogenous and that the young black folks that Nick knows listen exclusively to rap may be generalizations, but they do no harm.



    In the 50's, McCarthy-ism made everyone afraid of being accused as a communist. Now, there's a certain world-view that has succeeded in making everyone afraid of being accused as a racist or a "generalizer." What a bunch of idiots.
  • Reply 14 of 56
    hardeeharharhardeeharhar Posts: 4,841member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post


    What's so bad about generalization? As long as we realize that exceptions can exist, there's no harm in it. Generalization is a completely sensical child of observation. Generalization is, in fact, rational and scientific. Pointing out that the rap on the radio is extremely homogenous and that the young black folks that Nick knows listen exclusively to rap may be generalizations, but they do no harm.



    In the 50's, McCarthy-ism made everyone afraid of being accused as a communist. Now, there's a certain world-view that has succeeded in making everyone afraid of being accused as a racist or a "generalizer." What a bunch of idiots.



    No spliney.



    It isn't simply about making generalizations, it is making generalizations WITHOUT EXCEPTION.



    That is a problem.



    Further, if you want to make the comparison to McCarthyism.....It was the GENERALIZATION that LIBERALS and SOCIALISTS were tacit supporters of the Soviets that caused it to be successful and not some fear of being accused...



    Where do you get your bullshit?
  • Reply 15 of 56
    marcukmarcuk Posts: 4,442member
    ANyway, I've always detested RAP/hiphop/r&b music and wont be sorry if theres a backlash against it. IMO its the biggest pile of talentless crap, both musically and artistically ever. There are a couple of tracks I like - but thats really it, just 2 or 3.



    And then theres the groups of 14 year old twats who hang around town with their hoodies giving everyone grief trying to act like they're 25 year old thugs - with all the furious hand movements they use that makes them look like cripples on a sugar overdose.
  • Reply 16 of 56
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


    It is neat to see a new genre added, but sad when that genre becomes all encompassing.



    Isn't that the same for just about any new music genre, though? As soon as it has caught on enough as to be popular, the majority of new releases will be meaningless superficiality?



    This doesn't seem to me as something specific to rap, and therefore not something that discredits rap in particular.



    The real problem is that the majors fail to (or downright refuse to) push truly creative artists, as they know very well that they wouldn't sell as much.
  • Reply 17 of 56
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,461member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chucker View Post


    Isn't that the same for just about any new music genre, though? As soon as it has caught on enough as to be popular, the majority of new releases will be meaningless superficiality?



    This doesn't seem to me as something specific to rap, and therefore not something that discredits rap in particular.



    The real problem is that the majors fail to (or downright refuse to) push truly creative artists, as they know very well that they wouldn't sell as much.



    Oh absolutely, I'm not saying rap is any different from say... hair bands in the late 80's. In fact what I am putting across is that rap is EXACTLY like hair bands in the late 80's. Something new is going to come along soon and sweep away the 95% garbage that is being put out now and replace it with something new.



    I've not tried to discredit rap and I have enjoyed quite a bit of it over the years. Sadly I don't get to enjoy as much music of any genre as a 36 year old man as I did when I was say, a 16 year old kid. Those are the realities of changing priorities as you get older though. I spend more time following the stock market than say, the top 40 charts for a half dozen different genres.



    Also as the market for everything has exploded and become more fragmented, it becomes even harder to follow. Take cartoons for example, when I was growing up you had Hanna Barbara, Warner Bros and Disney which pretty much the U.S. domestic market. (Though some of us were getting very much into anime which was exciting, new and very different back then.)



    Now I couldn't even tell you which cartoons my kids watch across the 10 channels that offer 24 hour a day programming. I mean I'm sure marketing has beat a few names into my head and I'm sure those names would be deemed "crap" by current cartoon-o-philes.



    "The majors" have never been anything more than copycat shoe salesmen. Whatever happens to hit the iron hot next, they assuredly will sign whatever 20 acts most resemble the current hit maker. This is a good and bad phenomenon because it will help get rid of whatever needs to leave as well. All the majors will rush on to the next big thing.



    Nick
  • Reply 18 of 56
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


    Oh absolutely, I'm not saying rap is any different from say... hair bands in the late 80's. In fact what I am putting across is that rap is EXACTLY like hair bands in the late 80's. Something new is going to come along soon and sweep away the 95% garbage that is being put out now and replace it with something new.



    Agreed.



    Quote:

    I've not tried to discredit rap and I have enjoyed quite a bit of it over the years. Sadly I don't get to enjoy as much music of any genre as a 36 year old man as I did when I was say, a 16 year old kid. Those are the realities of changing priorities as you get older though. I spend more time following the stock market than say, the top 40 charts for a half dozen different genres.



    I wouldn't know.



    Quote:

    Also as the market for everything has exploded and become more fragmented, it becomes even harder to follow. Take cartoons for example, when I was growing up you had Hanna Barbara, Warner Bros and Disney which pretty much the U.S. domestic market. (Though some of us were getting very much into anime which was exciting, new and very different back then.)



    Now I couldn't even tell you which cartoons my kids watch across the 10 channels that offer 24 hour a day programming. I mean I'm sure marketing has beat a few names into my head and I'm sure those names would be deemed "crap" by current cartoon-o-philes.



    *nod*



    I think it's simply that everything becomes commoditized at a point. To make it more suitable for the masses, you have to water it down in quality, and it goes without saying that the specialty/uniqueness value fades as well.



    Quote:

    "The majors" have never been anything more than copycat shoe salesmen.



    Prolly.



    Quote:

    Whatever happens to hit the iron hot next, they assuredly will sign whatever 20 acts most resemble the current hit maker. This is a good and bad phenomenon because it will help get rid of whatever needs to leave as well. All the majors will rush on to the next big thing.



    Still, I'd like to see more of an opportunity for decidedly unpopular music/cartoons/whatever to become available to everyone interested in it. I think efforts such as Creative Commons could help a lot with this, though it remains hard to find true quality.



    Meanwhile, you can assume everything discussed on the mainstream media to be yesteryear's news.
  • Reply 19 of 56
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Women and negroes, when will they learn to make conservative white male America happy!?!?
  • Reply 20 of 56
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,461member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    Women and negroes, when will they learn to make conservative white male America happy!?!?



    Leave your personal life out of this okay?



    Nick
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