Oh absolutely, I'm not saying rap is any different from say... hair bands in the late 80's. In fact what I am putting across is that rap is EXACTLY like hair bands in the late 80's. Something new is going to come along soon and sweep away the 95% garbage that is being put out now and replace it with something new.
Nick
No way. Rap music will be here for the next 200 years. It's like french fries. It is cheap and requires little skill to produce and sell. The people who listen to rap will listen to anything since maybe 2% of all rap created after 1995 has any artistic merit anyway.
The last 10 years of rap music is basically "coolness and danger" in a can. There's nothing about it that really has any danger about it but kids like to play the part. If millions of teens have been fooled by this crap for the last 10 years, then there will always be money to be made.
No way. Rap music will be here for the next 200 years. It's like french fries. It is cheap and requires little skill to produce and sell. The people who listen to rap will listen to anything since maybe 2% of all rap created after 1995 has any artistic merit anyway.
I declare you this week's King Of Generalizations.
Agree with this 100%. I would personally rather listen to a troupe of lobotomized flatulent gorillas let loose in a recording studio with a castrated orang-utang on MDMA on the mixing desk...oh....wait......
I think Keef said it best when he said there were three types of music he despised and which should be expunged from history and that they all coincidentally began with the letter C: Classical, Country and Rap......
Keef - true, true, but the scoring of Clockwork Orange was pretty cool.
Now Chucker, hardy is the generalization monitor. Don't take his job or else he will be upset.
Nick
I have nothing to get upset about. I am only the master of the obvious and others are perfectly able to see what is in black and white, or grey as the case may be...
I'll probably get flamed for this but IMO rap isn't music.
Why?
It's a story with no real contens cause it's always about money, cars, sex & parties.
Too much lyrics push away the music, where it is about no?
I always think, if U wanna tell a real story U should write a book, if U want to make music U make music, if U wanna make rap U brag about things and put a lame beat on it...
It's all about taste i guess, but the media is so wrong to push such a small variety of music styles.
It's the media's fault that rap became so big. A lot of rap industries became wealthy selling drugs, so they could buy themselves 'air time' on the tv, now is that good education for our kids?
Other people will have other conclusions which is perfectly normal, this is mine.
Yes. And knee-jerk too. Rap is performed by mostly young black men. It's listened to by a wider group, but I would venture to guess it is predominently young black men. It is what it is.
It isn't simply about making generalizations, it is making generalizations WITHOUT EXCEPTION.
That is a problem.
Further, if you want to make the comparison to McCarthyism.....It was the GENERALIZATION that LIBERALS and SOCIALISTS were tacit supporters of the Soviets that caused it to be successful and not some fear of being accused...
Where do you get your bullshit?
First off, I don't see that there's this "problem" today where people are making sweeping generalizations and this act is causing damage. I just don't see that it happens. Furthermore, Nick was quite explicit in mentioning his sample -- all the young black folks he knows.
Is this really the best you can do? McCarthyism wasn't about generalization, it was a crusade comprised of mostly lies for the purpose of furthering the agenda of a power-hungry group. I see the contemporary liberal agenda having the same basic ire -- you're going to try to crucify whoever you disagree with by contrived claims of "generalization," "racism," or "intolerance." Where McCarthyism made people afraid to speak-up about their political opinions, modern liberals are doing the same exact thing with political correctness. For a white male, any comment that touches on culture is taboo, and if I make one I can expect that and least one brainwashed dolt is going to try to hang me with it. In this respect, there's a common thread between these two nadirs of recent american social history.
But, oh wait a minute. . . To make those observations I had to generalize. The human race is doomed.
Feel free to discuss your politics, but if it REQUIRES you to make generalizations, then you are a closed minded fool... But of course since you can't seem to fathom such a discourse, you already reveal such feeble mindedness.
Generalizations are lies by and by...
I seriously doubt that all of the young blacks Nick knows listen to rap exclusively. I just don't think his personal crusade to discover the musical tastes of his sample group is all that rigorous. Did he actually do a survey or is he basing this on his perception? Since Nick isn't known for his factual accuracy, my bet would be its his perception when he needed to make a point...
I'll probably get flamed for this but IMO rap isn't music.
Why?
Because you happen not to like it.
Quote:
I always think, if U wanna tell a real story U should write a book, if U want to make music U make music, if U wanna make rap U brag about things and put a lame beat on it...
And 'if U wanna' make a point, you shouldn't write like you're on some AOL chat room.
Quote:
A lot of rap industries became wealthy selling drugs, so they could buy themselves 'air time' on the tv, now is that good education for our kids?
What is a "rap industry", what do they have to do with drugs, and how do they "buy themselves air time"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar
Generalizations are lies by and by...
Stereotypes exist because there is always some truth to them.
Feel free to discuss your politics, but if it REQUIRES you to make generalizations, then you are a closed minded fool... But of course since you can't seem to fathom such a discourse, you already reveal such feeble mindedness.
I have been discoursing for two or three posts. Is this your way of giving up by calling me a closed-minded fool?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar
Generalizations are lies by and by...
No. Generalizations are statistical conclusions. By the nature of statistics, this means generalizations are neither truth nor lie. They are gray. But unless the practitioner didn't do his homework, generalizations will always be more true than untrue. If you are curious about the study of statistics, I can recommend textbooks for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar
I seriously doubt that all of the young blacks Nick knows listen to rap exclusively. ...
What if it is true? You are making generalizations based on your previous experiences with Nick. Of course, I realize that without the ability to make generalizations the human mind is worthless, and am willing to consider that possibility. Why aren't you willing to consider the possibility that political correctness may be counter-productive? Before you try to defend yourself by picking apart word structure in my posts, think about it, honestly. There are pundits out there who think that I must be wasting my time because they claim liberals are incapable of rational thinking. Prove them wrong.
I'll probably get flamed for this but IMO rap isn't music.
Why?
The reasons you cite have absolutely nothing to do with the definition of music.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001
Yes. And knee-jerk too. Rap is performed by mostly young black men.
Perhaps, but if so then it's more like a 60% majority than a 90% one. The blackness of hip hop is exaggerated. For example, out of the most prolific hit hip hop producers in recent years (neptunes, scott storch, timbaland, missy elliot) who are responsible for virtually all of the top hip hop tracks of the 00's, 3 are black, 1 is white and 1 is fillipino. When you move away from pop it only gets more diverse. The lines between hip hop and other genres (particularly electronica and rock) blur considerably, even when looking at the top producers named above, all of whom produce as many hits for pop and R&B stars like britney spears as they do for pop rappers like 50 Cent.
Quote:
It's listened to by a wider group, but I would venture to guess it is predominently young black men.
The pop rap audience is actually overwhelmingly white in the US. Feel free to do at least minimal research before forming opinions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar
I seriously doubt that all of the young blacks Nick knows listen to rap exclusively. I just don't think his personal crusade to discover the musical tastes of his sample group is all that rigorous. Did he actually do a survey or is he basing this on his perception? Since Nick isn't known for his factual accuracy, my bet would be its his perception when he needed to make a point...
Well, considering his california desert town is 90% white and 0.63% black and the demographic makeup is likely similar for 20 miles in any direction, I'm not sure whatever sample he's using is remotely relevant.
My opinion, the better Rappers - Old School were so much better than today's rap. Fat Boys, LL Cool J, Will Smith to name a few. They did Rap for FUN - not to promote violence and indulge youth in gangs.
Well, considering his california desert town is 90% white and 0.63% black and the demographic makeup is likely similar for 20 miles in any direction, I'm not sure whatever sample he's using is remotely relevant.
I don't believe I've listed that as my location for a while now because I moved over a year ago.
That said, the area where we live, often called the Pass Area or region has undergone tremendous growth.
You wanted to make claims from digging into what you claim is my person background so start posting up the numbers.
First I work in Moreno Valley.
The city in which I live in Beaumont, CA.
The surrounding cities are Banning, Calimesa, and Cabazon.
If you want to cover the full 20 miles, I would suggest you add Redlands, San Bernardino and Moreno Valley as well into those profiles you are going to pull up.
So what that supposed to prove my statement incorrect?
You made a statement? I thought you simply dismissed as you always do. Find your statement and I'm sure we can address it. From what I read you simply declared I wasn't "relevant." However I also guess you are right that 20% must be 1% since Moreno Valley is within 20 miles in any direction.
Is your view that unless you live in a majority black community you can't possibly know a black person? What is it you are trying to say? You note the city in which I work is 20% black and yet dismiss it. What number is large enough for one to know a reasonable number of black people for you?
I seriously doubt that all of the young blacks Nick knows listen to rap exclusively. I just don't think his personal crusade to discover the musical tastes of his sample group is all that rigorous. Did he actually do a survey or is he basing this on his perception? Since Nick isn't known for his factual accuracy, my bet would be its his perception when he needed to make a point...
Well, considering his california desert town is 90% white and 0.63% black and the demographic makeup is likely similar for 20 miles in any direction, I'm not sure whatever sample he's using is remotely relevant.
The reasons you cite have absolutely nothing to do with the definition of music.
Perhaps, but if so then it's more like a 60% majority than a 90% one. The blackness of hip hop is exaggerated. For example, out of the most prolific hit hip hop producers in recent years (neptunes, scott storch, timbaland, missy elliot) who are responsible for virtually all of the top hip hop tracks of the 00's, 3 are black, 1 is white and 1 is fillipino. When you move away from pop it only gets more diverse. The lines between hip hop and other genres (particularly electronica and rock) blur considerably, even when looking at the top producers named above, all of whom produce as many hits for pop and R&B stars like britney spears as they do for pop rappers like 50 Cent.
The pop rap audience is actually overwhelmingly white in the US. Feel free to do at least minimal research before forming opinions.
Well, considering his california desert town is 90% white and 0.63% black and the demographic makeup is likely similar for 20 miles in any direction, I'm not sure whatever sample he's using is remotely relevant.
OK, but it's still a majority. What's the problem? Secondly, so I was wrong about the audience. That's why I labeled it a "guess." That's what one does when one isn't sure about something.
Actually giant didn't disprove anything I said about the audience because I never claimed the audience for rap was black majority or black exclusive. I said that the black youth I know listen to rap exclusively. This does not preclude other groups from listening to rap or even from being the largest audience for rap.
His handwaving about the racial make up of producers, artists, etc also have nothing to do with what I have put forth. They are nice distractions, but have nothing to do with what I put forth. They might be a nice bit of conjecture about why rap has become so stale since the very large majority of rap albums sold and charts show a clear homogeniality in their racial make-up even though the practitioners do not. However all that would show is that racism, even when it is reverse racism harms whatever it touches. If he would like to share that thought, instead of wandering around and dismissing everyone as stupid, ignorant, racist, out of touch or whatever else it is he is trying to put across, it would be a welcome change.
Comments
Oh absolutely, I'm not saying rap is any different from say... hair bands in the late 80's. In fact what I am putting across is that rap is EXACTLY like hair bands in the late 80's. Something new is going to come along soon and sweep away the 95% garbage that is being put out now and replace it with something new.
Nick
No way. Rap music will be here for the next 200 years. It's like french fries. It is cheap and requires little skill to produce and sell. The people who listen to rap will listen to anything since maybe 2% of all rap created after 1995 has any artistic merit anyway.
The last 10 years of rap music is basically "coolness and danger" in a can. There's nothing about it that really has any danger about it but kids like to play the part. If millions of teens have been fooled by this crap for the last 10 years, then there will always be money to be made.
No way. Rap music will be here for the next 200 years. It's like french fries. It is cheap and requires little skill to produce and sell. The people who listen to rap will listen to anything since maybe 2% of all rap created after 1995 has any artistic merit anyway.
I declare you this week's King Of Generalizations.
Congrats.
Agree with this 100%. I would personally rather listen to a troupe of lobotomized flatulent gorillas let loose in a recording studio with a castrated orang-utang on MDMA on the mixing desk...oh....wait......
I think Keef said it best when he said there were three types of music he despised and which should be expunged from history and that they all coincidentally began with the letter C: Classical, Country and Rap......
Keef - true, true, but the scoring of Clockwork Orange was pretty cool.
I declare you this week's King Of Generalizations.
Congrats.
Now Chucker, hardy is the generalization monitor. Don't take his job or else he will be upset.
Nick
Now Chucker, hardy is the generalization monitor. Don't take his job or else he will be upset.
Nick
I have nothing to get upset about. I am only the master of the obvious and others are perfectly able to see what is in black and white, or grey as the case may be...
Why?
It's a story with no real contens cause it's always about money, cars, sex & parties.
Too much lyrics push away the music, where it is about no?
I always think, if U wanna tell a real story U should write a book, if U want to make music U make music, if U wanna make rap U brag about things and put a lame beat on it...
It's all about taste i guess, but the media is so wrong to push such a small variety of music styles.
It's the media's fault that rap became so big. A lot of rap industries became wealthy selling drugs, so they could buy themselves 'air time' on the tv, now is that good education for our kids?
Other people will have other conclusions which is perfectly normal, this is mine.
Greetz
Is my statement false?
Yes. And knee-jerk too. Rap is performed by mostly young black men. It's listened to by a wider group, but I would venture to guess it is predominently young black men. It is what it is.
No spliney.
It isn't simply about making generalizations, it is making generalizations WITHOUT EXCEPTION.
That is a problem.
Further, if you want to make the comparison to McCarthyism.....It was the GENERALIZATION that LIBERALS and SOCIALISTS were tacit supporters of the Soviets that caused it to be successful and not some fear of being accused...
Where do you get your bullshit?
First off, I don't see that there's this "problem" today where people are making sweeping generalizations and this act is causing damage. I just don't see that it happens. Furthermore, Nick was quite explicit in mentioning his sample -- all the young black folks he knows.
Is this really the best you can do? McCarthyism wasn't about generalization, it was a crusade comprised of mostly lies for the purpose of furthering the agenda of a power-hungry group. I see the contemporary liberal agenda having the same basic ire -- you're going to try to crucify whoever you disagree with by contrived claims of "generalization," "racism," or "intolerance." Where McCarthyism made people afraid to speak-up about their political opinions, modern liberals are doing the same exact thing with political correctness. For a white male, any comment that touches on culture is taboo, and if I make one I can expect that and least one brainwashed dolt is going to try to hang me with it. In this respect, there's a common thread between these two nadirs of recent american social history.
But, oh wait a minute. . . To make those observations I had to generalize. The human race is doomed.
Feel free to discuss your politics, but if it REQUIRES you to make generalizations, then you are a closed minded fool... But of course since you can't seem to fathom such a discourse, you already reveal such feeble mindedness.
Generalizations are lies by and by...
I seriously doubt that all of the young blacks Nick knows listen to rap exclusively. I just don't think his personal crusade to discover the musical tastes of his sample group is all that rigorous. Did he actually do a survey or is he basing this on his perception? Since Nick isn't known for his factual accuracy, my bet would be its his perception when he needed to make a point...
I'll probably get flamed for this but IMO rap isn't music.
Why?
Because you happen not to like it.
I always think, if U wanna tell a real story U should write a book, if U want to make music U make music, if U wanna make rap U brag about things and put a lame beat on it...
And 'if U wanna' make a point, you shouldn't write like you're on some AOL chat room.
A lot of rap industries became wealthy selling drugs, so they could buy themselves 'air time' on the tv, now is that good education for our kids?
What is a "rap industry", what do they have to do with drugs, and how do they "buy themselves air time"?
Generalizations are lies by and by...
Stereotypes exist because there is always some truth to them.
No spliney.
Feel free to discuss your politics, but if it REQUIRES you to make generalizations, then you are a closed minded fool... But of course since you can't seem to fathom such a discourse, you already reveal such feeble mindedness.
I have been discoursing for two or three posts. Is this your way of giving up by calling me a closed-minded fool?
Generalizations are lies by and by...
No. Generalizations are statistical conclusions. By the nature of statistics, this means generalizations are neither truth nor lie. They are gray. But unless the practitioner didn't do his homework, generalizations will always be more true than untrue. If you are curious about the study of statistics, I can recommend textbooks for you.
I seriously doubt that all of the young blacks Nick knows listen to rap exclusively. ...
What if it is true? You are making generalizations based on your previous experiences with Nick. Of course, I realize that without the ability to make generalizations the human mind is worthless, and am willing to consider that possibility. Why aren't you willing to consider the possibility that political correctness may be counter-productive? Before you try to defend yourself by picking apart word structure in my posts, think about it, honestly. There are pundits out there who think that I must be wasting my time because they claim liberals are incapable of rational thinking. Prove them wrong.
I'll probably get flamed for this but IMO rap isn't music.
Why?
The reasons you cite have absolutely nothing to do with the definition of music.
Yes. And knee-jerk too. Rap is performed by mostly young black men.
Perhaps, but if so then it's more like a 60% majority than a 90% one. The blackness of hip hop is exaggerated. For example, out of the most prolific hit hip hop producers in recent years (neptunes, scott storch, timbaland, missy elliot) who are responsible for virtually all of the top hip hop tracks of the 00's, 3 are black, 1 is white and 1 is fillipino. When you move away from pop it only gets more diverse. The lines between hip hop and other genres (particularly electronica and rock) blur considerably, even when looking at the top producers named above, all of whom produce as many hits for pop and R&B stars like britney spears as they do for pop rappers like 50 Cent.
It's listened to by a wider group, but I would venture to guess it is predominently young black men.
The pop rap audience is actually overwhelmingly white in the US. Feel free to do at least minimal research before forming opinions.
I seriously doubt that all of the young blacks Nick knows listen to rap exclusively. I just don't think his personal crusade to discover the musical tastes of his sample group is all that rigorous. Did he actually do a survey or is he basing this on his perception? Since Nick isn't known for his factual accuracy, my bet would be its his perception when he needed to make a point...
Well, considering his california desert town is 90% white and 0.63% black and the demographic makeup is likely similar for 20 miles in any direction, I'm not sure whatever sample he's using is remotely relevant.
C Rap Die
Die Rap Die
We C Rap Die
My opinion, the better Rappers - Old School were so much better than today's rap. Fat Boys, LL Cool J, Will Smith to name a few. They did Rap for FUN - not to promote violence and indulge youth in gangs.
My two cents - keep the change.
Well, considering his california desert town is 90% white and 0.63% black and the demographic makeup is likely similar for 20 miles in any direction, I'm not sure whatever sample he's using is remotely relevant.
I don't believe I've listed that as my location for a while now because I moved over a year ago.
That said, the area where we live, often called the Pass Area or region has undergone tremendous growth.
You wanted to make claims from digging into what you claim is my person background so start posting up the numbers.
First I work in Moreno Valley.
The city in which I live in Beaumont, CA.
The surrounding cities are Banning, Calimesa, and Cabazon.
If you want to cover the full 20 miles, I would suggest you add Redlands, San Bernardino and Moreno Valley as well into those profiles you are going to pull up.
Have fun.
Nick
The city in which I live in Beaumont, CA.
Sorry. 2.91% black.
The surrounding cities are Banning, Calimesa, and Cabazon.
Looks like banning is the only one above 1%
If you want to cover the full 20 miles, I would suggest you add Redlands,
16 miles away, 4.31% black
San Bernardino
25 miles away, 16% black
and Moreno Valley as well into those profiles you are going to pull up.
18 miles, 20% black
So what that supposed to prove my statement incorrect?
Sorry. 2.91% black.
Looks like banning is the only one above 1%
16 miles away, 4.31% black
25 miles away, 16% black
18 miles, 20% black
So what that supposed to prove my statement incorrect?
You made a statement? I thought you simply dismissed as you always do. Find your statement and I'm sure we can address it. From what I read you simply declared I wasn't "relevant." However I also guess you are right that 20% must be 1% since Moreno Valley is within 20 miles in any direction.
Is your view that unless you live in a majority black community you can't possibly know a black person? What is it you are trying to say? You note the city in which I work is 20% black and yet dismiss it. What number is large enough for one to know a reasonable number of black people for you?
Nick
I seriously doubt that all of the young blacks Nick knows listen to rap exclusively. I just don't think his personal crusade to discover the musical tastes of his sample group is all that rigorous. Did he actually do a survey or is he basing this on his perception? Since Nick isn't known for his factual accuracy, my bet would be its his perception when he needed to make a point...
Well, considering his california desert town is 90% white and 0.63% black and the demographic makeup is likely similar for 20 miles in any direction, I'm not sure whatever sample he's using is remotely relevant.
Let's use the time machine...
So now would you like to make a statement instead of just attempting an insulting inference?
Nick
The reasons you cite have absolutely nothing to do with the definition of music.
Perhaps, but if so then it's more like a 60% majority than a 90% one. The blackness of hip hop is exaggerated. For example, out of the most prolific hit hip hop producers in recent years (neptunes, scott storch, timbaland, missy elliot) who are responsible for virtually all of the top hip hop tracks of the 00's, 3 are black, 1 is white and 1 is fillipino. When you move away from pop it only gets more diverse. The lines between hip hop and other genres (particularly electronica and rock) blur considerably, even when looking at the top producers named above, all of whom produce as many hits for pop and R&B stars like britney spears as they do for pop rappers like 50 Cent.
The pop rap audience is actually overwhelmingly white in the US. Feel free to do at least minimal research before forming opinions.
Well, considering his california desert town is 90% white and 0.63% black and the demographic makeup is likely similar for 20 miles in any direction, I'm not sure whatever sample he's using is remotely relevant.
OK, but it's still a majority. What's the problem? Secondly, so I was wrong about the audience. That's why I labeled it a "guess." That's what one does when one isn't sure about something.
His handwaving about the racial make up of producers, artists, etc also have nothing to do with what I have put forth. They are nice distractions, but have nothing to do with what I put forth. They might be a nice bit of conjecture about why rap has become so stale since the very large majority of rap albums sold and charts show a clear homogeniality in their racial make-up even though the practitioners do not. However all that would show is that racism, even when it is reverse racism harms whatever it touches. If he would like to share that thought, instead of wandering around and dismissing everyone as stupid, ignorant, racist, out of touch or whatever else it is he is trying to put across, it would be a welcome change.
Nick