iPhone primed to trump rivals in audience appeal

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 62
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wally View Post


    I thought the same thing when reading the article.... who needs a 5mp camera in their phone? It might sound cool... but mp are part of the picture quality equation. At 5mp I want a good lense to go with that... I could see myself using the iPhone's camera to take "quick and dirty" snapshots for design inspiration purposes... but I'm not planning on enlarging these shots to hang over the mantle... 5mp is a waste...



    That's really the problem. I think that generally, the people that want big megapixels are the ones that don't really understand that the limitations are abundant with such a tiny camera. I'm really impressed that the resulting picture is recognizable. If you take a look at the threads where people submit pictures, it's easy to see that a given image was from a phone or some other device with such a tiny camera, and it has nothing to do with the number of pixels.
  • Reply 22 of 62
    dkriebdkrieb Posts: 10member
    iPhone Bitch
  • Reply 23 of 62
    nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    Re closed vs. open iPhone: there are two different approaches, and BOTH have value:



    1. Make a PLATFORM and let any developer dream up new apps and grow the platform. I think we can all support that! The benefits are obvious.



    2. Make an APPLIANCE and allow only limited, controlled, tested expansion of that appliance by developers.




    #2 would suck for a computer, but it has real value for a PHONE--even one that goes beyond the usual definition.



    #2 means your phone just works--not like a Mac (usually) "just works" but like an iPod "just works." (Remember, when some 3rd party app crashes, even if it harms nothing else, it's still your iPhone failing on you.)



    #2 means the ease-of-use and consistency from one app to another is NEVER damaged.



    #2 means when Apple wants to improve the OS or release a new device, their hands aren't tied (and quality control hampered) by having to worry about breaking a million 3rd-party apps. (Apple could say, "we don't care what 3rd party apps break, that's their funeral," but that's a poor customer experince.)



    #2 means you have a rock-solid appliance, but not a portable computer platform.



    I won't criticize anyone who prefers #1. It's fun and exciting and the sky is the limit. I might even choose #1 myself.



    But I also can't criticize apple for choosing #2. It does have real benefits--and I think those benefits would serve most users (non "power-users"/hackers/customizers) better than #1.



    I also think #2 would generate better reviews and higher sales, even if it makes a small number of people parrot the "Apple is closed" cry--often repeated, seldom a justified complaint.



    Both DO have benefits. Neither is "wrong." The ideal might be #2 for the iPhone... and then #1 for an ultracompact Mac computing device we have yet to see....
  • Reply 24 of 62
    nagromme, excellently put!
  • Reply 25 of 62
    suhailsuhail Posts: 192member
    Without #1… I can't have MAME!!!
  • Reply 26 of 62
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Amongst all this "news" that analysts seem to be generating lately as Ai correspondents, where's Mr. Wu? I miss him.



    I miss him too. But all these other "analysts" are doing a lot of the work for him anyway. Summary of all this "analyst" stuff: BUY APPLE SO THE STOCK WILL GO UP TO $110, $120 and WE CAN ALL make lots of money.



    The only thing is that luckily for these "analysts" Apple should do well anyway. Gooooooo AAPL ...!!

    Disclosure: my brother owns AAPL bought at $65 approx.
  • Reply 27 of 62
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nagromme View Post


    Re closed vs. open iPhone: there are two different approaches, and BOTH have value:



    1. Make a PLATFORM and let any developer dream up new apps and grow the platform. I think we can all support that! The benefits are obvious.



    2. Make an APPLIANCE and allow only limited, controlled, tested expansion of that appliance by developers.




    #2 would suck for a computer, but it has real value for a PHONE--even one that goes beyond the usual definition.



    #2 means your phone just works--not like a Mac (usually) "just works" but like an iPod "just works." (Remember, when some 3rd party app crashes, even if it harms nothing else, it's still your iPhone failing on you.)



    #2 means the ease-of-use and consistency from one app to another is NEVER damaged.



    #2 means when Apple wants to improve the OS or release a new device, their hands aren't tied (and quality control hampered) by having to worry about breaking a million 3rd-party apps. (Apple could say, "we don't care what 3rd party apps break, that's their funeral," but that's a poor customer experince.)



    #2 means you have a rock-solid appliance, but not a portable computer platform.



    I won't criticize anyone who prefers #1. It's fun and exciting and the sky is the limit. I might even choose #1 myself.



    But I also can't criticize apple for choosing #2. It does have real benefits--and I think those benefits would serve most users (non "power-users"/hackers/customizers) better than #1.



    I also think #2 would generate better reviews and higher sales, even if it makes a small number of people parrot the "Apple is closed" cry--often repeated, seldom a justified complaint.



    Both DO have benefits. Neither is "wrong." The ideal might be #2 for the iPhone... and then #1 for an ultracompact Mac computing device we have yet to see....



    Hear hear, excellent. #2 is Apple, Inc.'s main strategy. No point opening it up fully because then it "denigrates" into just another PDA/Smartphone/Etc. Controlled rigorously tested third party development. 2nd half of 2007, we'll have the "made for iPhone" program start to come on. Hackers will certainly push (and achieve) #1 but for the most part #2 is the way to fly.



    Apple's goal is to revolutionize what we think of the phone. It becomes a personal communicator and portable organizer. And plays music and videos too. It's a revolution. The next revolution after the iPod. Apple "gets it". This hype has to be realised, but remember iSteve's 1% of 1+ billion phones sold in 2008. That's 10 million units in 2008. Highly conservative, they could move potentially 20 million units in 2008.



    The iPod was the marketshare bone-crushing juggernaut. But the Mac, and iPhone, needs to be understandably, viewed in the light of growth and sustainable continued gains in profit for Apple,Inc. iPhone is the third growth engine that while unit sales will lag behind iPod unit sales, and below iPhone Mac unit sales, overall, we are seeing the Apple, Inc. ecosystem thrive.



    Side note: Given mid-April announcement at NAB, I don't anticipate Leopard to be released by then. Probably mid-May, alongside some new models. WWDC though... Hmm.. maybe Leopard release and full demo then, not May. Maybe before mid-April Mac Mini bump to Core2Duo, small other bumps.



    Timeline review:

    Anytime from March-April-May-June :: small bumps to models eg. MacMini Core2Duo.

    March: AppleTV shipping, continue Airport Extreme 802.11N rollout.

    April: mid-April NAB FinalCutPro, Motion, DVDStudioPro, possible 8coreMacPro announced.

    April: early April, AAPL Jan-March 2007 (FY07 Q2) results.

    May: Maybe some iPod updates, no Video touchscreen iPod until iPhone more in swing.

    May: Adobe Universal CS3 release and shipping in full swing*

    June: WWDC: full demo and shipping releae announced for Leopard Mac OS X 10.5.

    Some new Mac models to sweeten the Leopard release.



    *This suggests that mid-April announcement is a prep for Pro machine updates for mass sales in the

    pro creative [graphic/ web design] scene, on top of broadcast market. For those waiting in the wings.

    No Leopard release here because the pros want to jump on 10.4.8/ 10.4.9 real stable platform when upgrading.

    So pro Mac updates will be for MacPro Quad, MacPro 8Core, MacBookPro bumps, maybe MacBook 15.4".
  • Reply 28 of 62
    nofeernofeer Posts: 2,422member
    as far as apps, why can't apple bring in the apps like to read pdf, .doc files etc remember the amount of apps needed or most used is much much smaller than in the computer world, apple could handle this themselves so the ui is consistant or require strick ui i feel much of this app question will be answered by close alies to apple or apple themselves by or soon after june. when do consumers buy phones and when do business users buy phones. i think their will be two stages one in june then another for the christmas buying season.

    i also predict that before christmas it will be 3g AND twice the memory with growing app choices.
  • Reply 29 of 62
    nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    Absolutely, Apple can and should keep developing apps (and/or having other companies do so--like the iPod games by EA). And they will: Jobs touted the ability of the iPhone to gain new features. (In fact, the phone will gain some features when it ships that we haven't yet seen.)



    PDF reading is already there, I seem to recall. Hopefully .doc (and .docx?) will be there too.



    I also really hope for Flash playback--that seems to be a "maybe" officially, but even Apple.com is best viewed with Flash enabled.
  • Reply 30 of 62
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Certainly the word "desktop-class" was used very frequently. PDF, Office document viewers, editors(?)... There are some interesting possibilities. But Apple will keep it very focused upon launched not to try too many apps at first.
  • Reply 31 of 62
    I believe there is another factor that will make the iPhone more popular than it's competitors...

    Accessories! Accessories! Accessories!



    I LOVE THIS COMPANY!
  • Reply 32 of 62
    dentondenton Posts: 725member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post


    as far as apps, why can't apple bring in the apps like to read pdf, .doc files etc remember the amount of apps needed or most used is much much smaller than in the computer world, apple could handle this themselves so the ui is consistant or require strick ui i feel much of this app question will be answered by close alies to apple or apple themselves by or soon after june. when do consumers buy phones and when do business users buy phones. i think their will be two stages one in june then another for the christmas buying season.

    i also predict that before christmas it will be 3g AND twice the memory with growing app choices.



    Do you really believe that the iPhone will not be able to read a variety of documents (particularly pdf, doc, xls) on release simply because this capability was not mentioned in the Macworld keynote? Why don't you just wait to see what features the iPhone has that didn't make the short-list of priorities for the keynote demo? Your argument is obviously fallacious: why do people keep peddling this nonsense?
  • Reply 33 of 62
    eckingecking Posts: 1,588member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nagromme View Post


    "Sweet spot" for camera phones is 3-5 MP? No thanks. Are these "hardware preferences" that the market has for 3-5 MP actualy sales trends? Or someone checking a box on a questionnaire, "would you rather have 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 MP?" I have to wonder, given that an Apple competitor is the source of that statement



    In my Googling, other smartphones, and popular phones like the RAZR, have 640x480 (.3 MP) up to about 1 MP. Unless you're printing posters, 5 MP doesn't do much but waste storage--which is NOT what you want on a phone. If ever there was a reason to trade pixel area for capacity (and portability) a phone is it.



    2MP, like the iPhone, is 1600x1200. That's not at all bad.



    Yeah but most people are tools and would be like "zomfg! iphone has 64 megapixel camera, hasselblad is teh doom!!1!one!1!"
  • Reply 34 of 62
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:

    And while Nokia's devices were best positioned to compete with those from Apple, the latter could brag of advantages its rivals simply couldn't offer. No current phone designer has the same kind of devoted fan base, the Bank of America researcher said.



    Y'know, I'm a pretty big iPhone fan, but that part was utter gibberish. Mr. Analyst obviously has no clue.



    There are LEGIONS of Nokia and Motorola fanboys out there. The cellphone market is over a BILLION people worldwide right now, and as the #1 and #2 phone makers, Nokia and Moto both can number their current customers in the hundreds of millions.



    That's not to say that their fans can't be converted to the iPhone, and I believe a lot of them will be, but to say that the established competitors in the cellphone market do not have large and devoted fanbases is odd, at best.... when you sell a couple hundred million phones a year, if even 10% of your customers really like your product, you end up with a number right around the entire worldwide Mac installed base. Much more, actually, since the cellphone replacement cycle is closer to two years, so your customer base as either of those companies is closer to double that 'couple hundred' million.



    So where are they getting these analyst guys from?



    .
  • Reply 35 of 62
    aegisdesignaegisdesign Posts: 2,914member
    Anyone who doesn't believe phone cameras can't be decent, hasn't used a Sony Ericsson K800i or a Nokia N73.



    Anyone who doesn't believe phones can't make good iPod replacements hasn't used a recent Sony Ericsson Walkman phone.



    It's into that market that Apple will be coming a year late with no 3G, no inbuilt flash and a so-so camera. Most of the high end Nokias also work as SIP phones now too. The software in the rest of the iPhone better be good other wise the iPhones "bragging of advantages its rivals simply couldn't offer" will sound quite comical.



    The RDF is strong in this thread.
  • Reply 36 of 62
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Denton View Post


    Do you really believe that the iPhone will not be able to read a variety of documents (particularly pdf, doc, xls) on release simply because this capability was not mentioned in the Macworld keynote? Why don't you just wait to see what features the iPhone has that didn't make the short-list of priorities for the keynote demo? Your argument is obviously fallacious: why do people keep peddling this nonsense?



    Seeing how TextEdit and Safari can already read .DOC and .PDF files, respectively, I really don 't see how this won't be included.



    Plus, I've been using Google Docs more and more lately as it contains only the simple features that I, and I assume most people, need to create .DOC files. With Google and Apple collaborating, I wonder if they are working on something--like the Google Maps that was demoed at MacWorld-- to create a simple and free editor/viewer for the iPhone.
  • Reply 37 of 62
    Not enough hype or too much hype? I'm starting to believe the former, or maybe the market is just starting to realize how big the iPhone treat is, so maybe it's just right amount of hype. I recently read that AT&T anticipates that the iPhone will bring with it a sharp increase in new customers. Of course the inverse of that is a sharp decrease in competitor user base. One of those is Verizon, as a current Verizon customer who is frustrated with Verizon's standard practice of crippling their phones to force you to use their extra services plus use up your minutes, well, I'm looking forward to it. I expect there will be an initial surge, then a slow down. It all really depends on how the pricing with service plans workout. While Apple is certainly going to try and maximize profits from the gotta-have-it-early-adoptors, the other factor that may have been considers in the pricing is supply and demand. Clearly the more users Apple can get onboard as early as possible will help establish it's base, the more people see it, touch it, the cascading effect well bring in new users, lower prices would do that, but maybe too much too fast vastly outstripping supply, which would lead to Apple losing its control on pricing. So the higher price will both maximize profits and at as a supply control. The production of a product has a limit, you can produce this many and no more, pricing of a unit can be adjusted. So if supply exceeds demand, for instance, AT&T (and Apple), can quick adjust the price of the unit, say with a two year contract, to balance supply and demand, in a controlled manner. The opposite, too low a price, channels empty, prices increase, and the market controls the iPhone. While initially this might be seen as desirable, you may lose potential hold outs as they consider the coveted device unobtainable. The article makes a very good point about the iPod factor of the iPhone, it's a major variable given the install base. I think that if Apple only did an iPod with a cell phone feature, that along would have seen huge demand (at a lower price of course), but they didn't, they made it an almost everything device. Add GPS done with google maps down the road, well, it would be the everything device, minus the kitchen sink (could do a widget for that I suppose
  • Reply 38 of 62
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,142member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    The iPhone will sell for lots of reasons, but it'll sell mostly for one main reason. Ease of use, ease of use, ease of use and ease of use.



    ... and don't forget ease of use
  • Reply 39 of 62
    abster2coreabster2core Posts: 2,501member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post


    Y'know, I'm a pretty big iPhone fan, but that part was utter gibberish. Mr. Analyst obviously has no clue.



    There are LEGIONS of Nokia and Motorola fanboys out there. The cellphone market is over a BILLION people worldwide right now, and as the #1 and #2 phone makers, Nokia and Moto both can number their current customers in the hundreds of millions.



    Fanboys and customers are two different things. Sure Nokia and the like have customers in the hundreds of millions, but most will stay with their current product and/or provider out of habit and convenience. The second group will switch on price, ease of switching and how well they can be convinced to do so. The third group are the technofiles and the must-have-the-newest-technology crowd and will gravitate to what they believe is the most advanced no matter who makes it.



    Mac'rs on the other have a loyalty that is paramount to paranoia and consider it treasonis if one switched. A lot of us will buy everything as soon as Apple releases it. More wish they could. Most can't wait for the 'next' thing. I doubt that Nokia has such a following that they will disregard the competitor no matter how much better their product may appear to be as us Mac'rs will.



    As the article stated, "No current phone designer has the same kind of devoted fan base." It doesn't say that it is smaller than Apples.



    What is most interesting, is that all the analysts are in most part, in agreement. To them, the iPhone looks like a winner. A big winner. Sure they cautiously preface their releases, as well they should. Sure they haven't always been right. But if Apple does what it does best they are counting on making their clients a lot of money; as we are counting on telling a lot of our friends (and enemies), "I told you so." "Again!"
  • Reply 40 of 62
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,142member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kaioslider View Post


    Not enough hype or too much hype? I'm starting to believe the former, or maybe the market is just starting to realize how big the iPhone treat is, so maybe it's just right amount of hype. I recently read that AT&T anticipates that the iPhone will bring with it a sharp increase in new customers. Of course the inverse of that is a sharp decrease in competitor user base. One of those is Verizon, as a current Verizon customer who is frustrated with Verizon's standard practice of crippling their phones to force you to use their extra services plus use up your minutes, well, I'm looking forward to it. I expect there will be an initial surge, then a slow down. It all really depends on how the pricing with service plans workout. While Apple is certainly going to try and maximize profits from the gotta-have-it-early-adoptors, the other factor that may have been considers in the pricing is supply and demand. Clearly the more users Apple can get onboard as early as possible will help establish it's base, the more people see it, touch it, the cascading effect well bring in new users, lower prices would do that, but maybe too much too fast vastly outstripping supply, which would lead to Apple losing its control on pricing. So the higher price will both maximize profits and at as a supply control. The production of a product has a limit, you can produce this many and no more, pricing of a unit can be adjusted. So if supply exceeds demand, for instance, AT&T (and Apple), can quick adjust the price of the unit, say with a two year contract, to balance supply and demand, in a controlled manner. The opposite, too low a price, channels empty, prices increase, and the market controls the iPhone. While initially this might be seen as desirable, you may lose potential hold outs as they consider the coveted device unobtainable. The article makes a very good point about the iPod factor of the iPhone, it's a major variable given the install base. I think that if Apple only did an iPod with a cell phone feature, that along would have seen huge demand (at a lower price of course), but they didn't, they made it an almost everything device. Add GPS done with google maps down the road, well, it would be the everything device, minus the kitchen sink (could do a widget for that I suppose



    All good points. I'd like to add, I suspect Apple have plans and ideas yet to even surface. Once they have a bridge-head in this market I am expecting new, paradigm shifting uses no one ever thought of. Everyone is discussing all the known and existing technologies. I have no clue what might be coming but I am damn sure in a few years everyone will be using some new features that Apple introduce that today don't even exist. By then no one will know how they ever lived without them. Of course then all the others will be copying Apple's ideas as per usual ...
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