The cheapest iPod in 2001 was $399 and was holding about a thousand song in mp3 format. in 2007, you can get a much less bulky iPod with a color screen that holds a thousand AAC songs at $199 (second gen 4GB iPod nano).
Also, the first gen 2GB nano was $199, it's now $149. Sure you'll say "they just upgraded the 1GB model", but the 1GB was a late addition anyway that brought the entry level price for an iPod with screen to $149.
And if you don't consider the nano in the same league as the original iPod because of its smaller screen, then consider comparing the $249 current HDD iPod video vs. the $399 original iPod. Not only it has much more capacity and features, but it's ALSO a lot cheaper.
The iPod shuffle was introduced at $99 for the 512MB model. The second gen shuffle is $79, is much smaller and has twice the storage.
A small 1000 songs audio player is good enough for the majority people, and that'll be true for years to come, Apple would've been stupid to keep the cheapest iPod at $399 and only add features. For an audio player, there's no equivalent to the increasing requirements of computer software.
Apple also tries to bring down the prices of Macs, but the situation is more complicated there. Over the years, software has been more demanding (thanks to bloatware) and Macs only recently reached a point in performance where almost everything in OS X is snappy on every new machines. Apple could've released a $300 500Mhz G4 Mac Mini with 128 MB of RAM in 2005, but it would've been a crappy user experience. Also, the intel transition forced them to bring up the price of the mini, but I bet it'll eventually get back at $499. And if you think about it, the $599 intel Mac mini is still a lot cheaper than the $1799 PowerMac cube...
The AppleTV can play HD video content, and that will be enough for years to come, no need to upgrade the hardware for that in the meantime. Even if there might be some upgrades to the HDD I bet that the price will come down eventually. And even with only a 40GB HDD, the AppleTV is perfectly useable for streaming from a large collection of movies and TV shows.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the base AppleTV sell for $199/$249 in 2008, I don't see what killer feature they could add to justify keeping the price at $299.
And please guys, stop asking for a DVR feature in the AppleTV, it won't happen, end of story.
My Mac 950 cost $6,000 without the $189 Pro keyboard in 1992. In today's dollars that's likely equivelent to $7,500.
For that, I received 8 MB RAM, a 230 MB HD. built-in graphics with 1 MB RAM, upgradable to two, mono sound, a floppy drive, and a mouse.
It did have five NuBus slots, 16 RAM slots, space for three externally accessable drives (5 1/4), and several internal ones.
So Apple has certainly lowered the price of its computers as well.
VL-Tone is right, the original iMac retailed for $1299 if I remember correctly. As new models were released that price went down to $899, with the eMacs (which was really an iMac) down at the $699 level. The iPod example is another, more recent example of that. Another one is the current iMac which has made it down to the $999 level again. Apple lowers the prices of their products whenever they can to be more competative and keep their margins large enough to comfortabley stay in business. Don't forget that part of the extra cost in the Mini is that it includes built in AirPort and BlueTooth, sure the AirPort needs to be updated to the new "n" standard and the processor needs to be upgraded to a Core 2 and it would be great if they gave it a HDMI port, but it really isn't that bad of a deal. I agree that it will get back down to the $499 entry price when Apple can, but they can't do it right now given the component costs and feature set that it has.
I still maintain that Apple is almost certainly decoding H.264 on the GPU. Any QT codec installed will have to run on the CPU with its crippled FSB. So there could be performance issues (highly unlikely that you'd be able to get the QuickTime MPEG-2 component to work in real-time, for example).
In addition, this "hack" is still complicated: as far as I can tell, files you might want to play with "hacked" codecs have to be on the AppleTV HDD, you cannot stream them from iTunes.
I remain unimpressed that Apple haven't implemented MPEG-2, AC3, DTS, and CSS support to enable playback of unmodified DVD-video images (as in disk images).
I remain unimpressed that Apple haven't implemented MPEG-2, AC3, DTS, and CSS support to enable playback of unmodified DVD-video images (as in disk images).
Apple supporting MPEG-TS and CSS isn't going to go over well with their plans to woo more studios to iTunes. Let's not be foolish now. Apple cannot appeal to your needs and the studios needs at the same time. There has to be a balance.
Apple supporting MPEG-TS and CSS isn't going to go over well with their plans to woo more studios to iTunes. Let's not be foolish now. Apple cannot appeal to your needs and the studios needs at the same time. There has to be a balance.
iTunes ripping CDs didn't stop the iTunes Music Store from happening. I fail to see how having a new device that plays DVD content could possibly be viewed as a "bad thing" by the studios. Indeed, adding an extra dimension to the whole thing (allowing people to store their entire DVD collection on a server to be streamed around the house) may increase demand for DVDs (but probably not measurably).
iTunes ripping CDs didn't stop the iTunes Music Store from happening. I fail to see how having a new device that plays DVD content could possibly be viewed as a "bad thing" by the studios. Indeed, adding an extra dimension to the whole thing (allowing people to store their entire DVD collection on a server to be streamed around the house) may increase demand for DVDs (but probably not measurably).
The CD specification doesn't call for CSS encryption. Thus Apple was never in danger of promoting any usurpation of DRM on CD. DVD on the other hand have only become copyable because of breaches to CSS. I'd love to see it as well but I understand why Apple doesn't go there.
iTunes ripping CDs didn't stop the iTunes Music Store from happening.
Although the legalities of CD and DVD ripping differ. [edit: like hmurchison explained]
Quote:
I fail to see how having a new device that plays DVD content could possibly be viewed as a "bad thing" by the studios.
I fail to see how you would fail to see studios not twisting something that many of us can easily view in a customer's interest into a "bad thing".
Quote:
Indeed, adding an extra dimension to the whole thing (allowing people to store their entire DVD collection on a server to be streamed around the house) may increase demand for DVDs (but probably not measurably).
The CD specification doesn't call for CSS encryption.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjk
Although the legalities of CD and DVD ripping differ. [edit: like hmurchison explained]
You must both have missed the bit where I said that AppleTV should support CSS. If it did, there would be no circumvention of DRM.
Apple would just have to implement a similar protection system to Flip4Mac's Drive-In (which, again, the studios don't seem pissed about. Nor do they seem pissed that Apple's DVD player application will play DVD images) to prevent AppleTV playing DVD images that other people have ripped. Indeed, at the moment, for people to use AppleTV with their own legally acquired content, they have to remove the DRM from DVDs in order to convert the video and audio to H.264 and AAC so that it's playable on the AppleTV. Those resulting video files people can easily illegally share with their friends. So if anything, the Studios should prefer it if Apple provided support for unmodified DVD images with additional protection as I suggest.
From that thread that solipsism posted, it appears that AppleTV does have the DVD player framework on-board, so maybe they'll introduce the capability sometime down the road. Or, since the AppleTV is basically a Mac with a slow processor, it probably wouldn't be all that difficult to hack the AppleTV to work in conjunction with Flip4Mac's drive-in. However, that wouldn't give a very Apple-like solution.
From that thread that solipsism posted, it appears that AppleTV does have the DVD player framework on-board, so maybe they'll introduce the capability sometime down the road. Or, since the AppleTV is basically a Mac with a slow processor, it probably wouldn't be all that difficult to hack the AppleTV to work in conjunction with Flip4Mac's drive-in. However, that wouldn't give a very Apple-like solution.
Some options I can see happening:
Apple release iTunes and AppleTV updates that allow you stream your DVDs from your Windows or Macs. However, I think we'll first see this functionality as a hack on Mac OS X's iTunes in the form of a plug-in with another ugly codec support hack for AppleTV.
Apple releases updates to AppleTV that utilizes it's USB port. At the same time it offers DVD and Blu-ray/DVD players as a slim, stackable add-on device. I would like to think that Apple would also add a 2nd USB port to such an add-on device to allow a iPod to be easily connected.
Apple release iTunes and AppleTV updates that allow you stream your DVDs from your Windows or Macs. However, I think we'll first see this functionality as a hack on Mac OS X's iTunes in the form of a plug-in with another ugly codec support hack for AppleTV.
Apple releases updates to AppleTV that utilizes it's USB port. At the same time it offers DVD and Blu-ray/DVD players as a slim, stackable add-on device. I would like to think that Apple would also add a 2nd USB port to such an add-on device to allow a iPod to be easily connected.
option 2.) in no way achieves the functionality I suggest. I don't see the point of adding an optical drive to AppleTV, it's like adding a CD player onto an iPod. The point is to keep all your content on a central server and then be able to choose and stream what ever you want at the press of a few buttons instead of having to fish out the appropriate disk and load it into the machine.
You must both have missed the bit where I said that AppleTV should support CSS. If it did, there would be no circumvention of DRM.
From that thread that solipsism posted, it appears that AppleTV does have the DVD player framework on-board, so maybe they'll introduce the capability sometime down the road.
At this point its still premature to have a final analysis of AppleTV's functionality. A couple of key pieces are still missing, Leopard and Front Row 2. Its highly likely these will incorporate more functionality into AppleTV than Tiger and Front Row 1.
After Leopard comes out then we should have a better understanding of what is happening and what is missing.
Comments
How about the iPod?
The cheapest iPod in 2001 was $399 and was holding about a thousand song in mp3 format. in 2007, you can get a much less bulky iPod with a color screen that holds a thousand AAC songs at $199 (second gen 4GB iPod nano).
Also, the first gen 2GB nano was $199, it's now $149. Sure you'll say "they just upgraded the 1GB model", but the 1GB was a late addition anyway that brought the entry level price for an iPod with screen to $149.
And if you don't consider the nano in the same league as the original iPod because of its smaller screen, then consider comparing the $249 current HDD iPod video vs. the $399 original iPod. Not only it has much more capacity and features, but it's ALSO a lot cheaper.
The iPod shuffle was introduced at $99 for the 512MB model. The second gen shuffle is $79, is much smaller and has twice the storage.
A small 1000 songs audio player is good enough for the majority people, and that'll be true for years to come, Apple would've been stupid to keep the cheapest iPod at $399 and only add features. For an audio player, there's no equivalent to the increasing requirements of computer software.
Apple also tries to bring down the prices of Macs, but the situation is more complicated there. Over the years, software has been more demanding (thanks to bloatware) and Macs only recently reached a point in performance where almost everything in OS X is snappy on every new machines. Apple could've released a $300 500Mhz G4 Mac Mini with 128 MB of RAM in 2005, but it would've been a crappy user experience. Also, the intel transition forced them to bring up the price of the mini, but I bet it'll eventually get back at $499. And if you think about it, the $599 intel Mac mini is still a lot cheaper than the $1799 PowerMac cube...
The AppleTV can play HD video content, and that will be enough for years to come, no need to upgrade the hardware for that in the meantime. Even if there might be some upgrades to the HDD I bet that the price will come down eventually. And even with only a 40GB HDD, the AppleTV is perfectly useable for streaming from a large collection of movies and TV shows.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the base AppleTV sell for $199/$249 in 2008, I don't see what killer feature they could add to justify keeping the price at $299.
And please guys, stop asking for a DVR feature in the AppleTV, it won't happen, end of story.
My Mac 950 cost $6,000 without the $189 Pro keyboard in 1992. In today's dollars that's likely equivelent to $7,500.
For that, I received 8 MB RAM, a 230 MB HD. built-in graphics with 1 MB RAM, upgradable to two, mono sound, a floppy drive, and a mouse.
It did have five NuBus slots, 16 RAM slots, space for three externally accessable drives (5 1/4), and several internal ones.
So Apple has certainly lowered the price of its computers as well.
Since it's apparently confirmed that AppleTV uses OS X and, presumably, Quicktime frameworks this may be a reality already.
Does the announcement of Quicktime frameworks make this more desirable to you naysayers?
Does the announcement of Quicktime frameworks make this more desirable to you naysayers?
To which "announcement" do you refer?
To which "announcement" do you refer?
http://forums.somethingawful.com/sho...readid=2391956
http://forums.somethingawful.com/sho...readid=2391956
Interesting. Thanks for the link.
I still maintain that Apple is almost certainly decoding H.264 on the GPU. Any QT codec installed will have to run on the CPU with its crippled FSB. So there could be performance issues (highly unlikely that you'd be able to get the QuickTime MPEG-2 component to work in real-time, for example).
In addition, this "hack" is still complicated: as far as I can tell, files you might want to play with "hacked" codecs have to be on the AppleTV HDD, you cannot stream them from iTunes.
I remain unimpressed that Apple haven't implemented MPEG-2, AC3, DTS, and CSS support to enable playback of unmodified DVD-video images (as in disk images).
Interesting. Thanks for the link.
I remain unimpressed that Apple haven't implemented MPEG-2, AC3, DTS, and CSS support to enable playback of unmodified DVD-video images (as in disk images).
Apple supporting MPEG-TS and CSS isn't going to go over well with their plans to woo more studios to iTunes. Let's not be foolish now. Apple cannot appeal to your needs and the studios needs at the same time. There has to be a balance.
Apple supporting MPEG-TS and CSS isn't going to go over well with their plans to woo more studios to iTunes. Let's not be foolish now. Apple cannot appeal to your needs and the studios needs at the same time. There has to be a balance.
iTunes ripping CDs didn't stop the iTunes Music Store from happening. I fail to see how having a new device that plays DVD content could possibly be viewed as a "bad thing" by the studios. Indeed, adding an extra dimension to the whole thing (allowing people to store their entire DVD collection on a server to be streamed around the house) may increase demand for DVDs (but probably not measurably).
http://egotastic.com/video?flv=/medi...n%20Apple%20TV
Olivia Munn from G4TV.
iTunes ripping CDs didn't stop the iTunes Music Store from happening. I fail to see how having a new device that plays DVD content could possibly be viewed as a "bad thing" by the studios. Indeed, adding an extra dimension to the whole thing (allowing people to store their entire DVD collection on a server to be streamed around the house) may increase demand for DVDs (but probably not measurably).
The CD specification doesn't call for CSS encryption. Thus Apple was never in danger of promoting any usurpation of DRM on CD. DVD on the other hand have only become copyable because of breaches to CSS. I'd love to see it as well but I understand why Apple doesn't go there.
iTunes ripping CDs didn't stop the iTunes Music Store from happening.
Although the legalities of CD and DVD ripping differ. [edit: like hmurchison explained]
I fail to see how having a new device that plays DVD content could possibly be viewed as a "bad thing" by the studios.
I fail to see how you would fail to see studios not twisting something that many of us can easily view in a customer's interest into a "bad thing".
Indeed, adding an extra dimension to the whole thing (allowing people to store their entire DVD collection on a server to be streamed around the house) may increase demand for DVDs (but probably not measurably).
The effect Flip4Mac Drive-In might have to some extent?
The CD specification doesn't call for CSS encryption.
Although the legalities of CD and DVD ripping differ. [edit: like hmurchison explained]
You must both have missed the bit where I said that AppleTV should support CSS. If it did, there would be no circumvention of DRM.
Apple would just have to implement a similar protection system to Flip4Mac's Drive-In (which, again, the studios don't seem pissed about. Nor do they seem pissed that Apple's DVD player application will play DVD images) to prevent AppleTV playing DVD images that other people have ripped. Indeed, at the moment, for people to use AppleTV with their own legally acquired content, they have to remove the DRM from DVDs in order to convert the video and audio to H.264 and AAC so that it's playable on the AppleTV. Those resulting video files people can easily illegally share with their friends. So if anything, the Studios should prefer it if Apple provided support for unmodified DVD images with additional protection as I suggest.
From that thread that solipsism posted, it appears that AppleTV does have the DVD player framework on-board, so maybe they'll introduce the capability sometime down the road. Or, since the AppleTV is basically a Mac with a slow processor, it probably wouldn't be all that difficult to hack the AppleTV to work in conjunction with Flip4Mac's drive-in. However, that wouldn't give a very Apple-like solution.
From that thread that solipsism posted, it appears that AppleTV does have the DVD player framework on-board, so maybe they'll introduce the capability sometime down the road. Or, since the AppleTV is basically a Mac with a slow processor, it probably wouldn't be all that difficult to hack the AppleTV to work in conjunction with Flip4Mac's drive-in. However, that wouldn't give a very Apple-like solution.
Some options I can see happening:
Some options I can see happening:
option 2.) in no way achieves the functionality I suggest. I don't see the point of adding an optical drive to AppleTV, it's like adding a CD player onto an iPod. The point is to keep all your content on a central server and then be able to choose and stream what ever you want at the press of a few buttons instead of having to fish out the appropriate disk and load it into the machine.
You must both have missed the bit where I said that AppleTV should support CSS. If it did, there would be no circumvention of DRM.
From that thread that solipsism posted, it appears that AppleTV does have the DVD player framework on-board, so maybe they'll introduce the capability sometime down the road.
At this point its still premature to have a final analysis of AppleTV's functionality. A couple of key pieces are still missing, Leopard and Front Row 2. Its highly likely these will incorporate more functionality into AppleTV than Tiger and Front Row 1.
After Leopard comes out then we should have a better understanding of what is happening and what is missing.