Um - I don't think this is Apple's doing. They said pretty plainly that Leopard is coming out in the spring, and have been keeping the developers well fed with beta updates ever since that announcement.
"Well fed" is up to debate. Unless all developers are so super secret that the rumor sites don't even know they've got the latest builds without all those pesky issues in them. Keep in mind that developers need to test the OS with their software. You can't just hope its going to work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear
They say they are pleased with what Parallels has done for virtualization. What if they are bundling that as one of their top secret features? Or for that matter, they could be bundling some other existing product(s) as their top secret feature(s).
Ooh, bundling existing third-party software! Wow, how exciting. Certainly would be something spectacular for everyone to talk about after all the hype of the 'top-secret' features. (Which would more lead people to believe Jobs just made that up last year and they've been trying to come up with something ever since).
And Parallels won't be bundled. First, not everyone needs Windows support and won't want to pay for it. And parallels wouldn't just give their software away without taking a good hunk of cash back, and they wouldn't still be selling it now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac
Let's hope the top secret features get tested and aren't released on the unsuspecting public without proper development.
Or that the secret features are just stupid separate apps that don't affect the OS to its core.
Did anyone actually believe that Apple would delay Leopard for Vista? Really?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis
He was right about one thing. There's no money in the Mini and last I heard it's the worst selling Mac. [?] They either already enabled them and you missed it or Apple isn't going to enable them in the Developer Builds because Developers may not need them.
Mini sells pretty well. And besides, it is a gateway drug?I mean computer.
The secret features aren?t appearing in the developer previews because if they did, they wouldn?t be very secret. We?d have a more thorough dissection of their capabilities in a day than Apple would ever provide in a public announcement. Developer Previews are designed specifically to aid developers in testing their software for the next-generation OS. It is not meant to be a technology preview. The final product may look different, have different features, and yes, may be more stable and have fewer bugs (but it will also have its own bugs in product elements left out of the previews we?ve been seeing).
I boy, 100+ post of pontification about something most of know nothing about. Besides, I don't give a flip over when 10.5 is being released, as I'm waiting for 10.5.1 and 10.5.2 to happen before upgrading.
It would seem that iCal is not presented because it is probably going to take on the look and feel of the new iLife appas that may also be integrated with Leopard. I think iLife is probably THE major new thing in Leopard, although it would be nice to see some UI refinement (even though Tiger is the best looking and working OS out there).
Well, that's not saying much, since the competition is what? Vista? XP? Linux? Hell, as long as it didn't look like dog poo, it would take the top spot. And I hope if they tweak it, they fix the inconsistencies and issues everyone has with it, and not just change it just for change sake (and still leave all the inconsistencies and problems people have with it).
I also don't imagine iLife is the major new thing in Leopard. Apple makes a pretty penny suckering $$$ from users to upgrade every year. Why give that up and include it in OS X? Unless they change the OS pricing and charge $200+ for it (up from the projected $150 Leopard will list for). And how many people would not upgrade because they don't want to fork over the extra money for an update to iLife (Leopard at the moment is an iffy upgrade anyway, adding even more to the cost for upgrades to iLife would certainly sway myself and a bunch of others to the "wait and see" camps).
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko
Bootcamp we have known about. The only really shocking thing that they could include would go beyond having some kind of Parallelsesque app, but instead to have a VMWareish inclusion of Windows APIs that can run on Mac OS natively (I also think that Apples legal right to use these is the primary reason why MS has broken so many things with Vista so that Apple cannot natively use the new stuff.
First, I don't think VMWare mimics the Windows API. Its an emulator/virtual machine, like Parallels. I think you're thinking of WINE (which, in general, is a hit or miss proposition, as it only works with selected apps they've tested it with).
Second, Apple always had a legal right to use WINE (they have no right to use VMWare or Parallels, without an agreement that is), so I don't see how Microsoft can suddenly go "Oh crap, let's break vista so Apple's hardware won't work with it!". Keep in mind that Vista has been available for years to developers, and apple should have no problem getting their software to work. I think the main problem is that Apple is just filled with lousy Windows programmers who just hack their way into the system to force their will on the OS, and vista doesn't like that anymore (for example, there's no way to disable the iPod service on windows, regardless of whether you have an ipod or not, unless, perhaps, you only use the computer in limited mode). And looking at iTunes for Windows interface, you'd have to think their UI group trained in Redmond (menus in the title bar???).
Third, I can't imagine MS would think it would be in their best interest to break iTunes/iPod support. Most iPod users are windows users. If the ipod won't work with vista properly, then there's a huge set of their user-base whose NOT upgrading. Add that to the other groups not upgrading, and its just another bullet in the foot.
Anyway, these are the things I am hoping for and would cause me to upgrade my last Rev Powerbook to a shiny new Macbook Pro. I don't use windows apps at all anymore except for one program at work. It would be nice to do all from my Mac without putting money in Mocrosofts pocketbook.[/QUOTE]
(for example, there's no way to disable the iPod service on windows, regardless of whether you have an ipod or not, unless, perhaps, you only use the computer in limited mode). And looking at iTunes for Windows interface, you'd have to think their UI group trained in Redmond (menus in the title bar???).
The iPod service appears under services in msconfig, and can be disabled.
This is standard functionality. Unless there is something strange going on?
Delayed until October, coming out in a few weeks... you hear both sides, and there is no reason to trust either one.
No, but there's reason to trust NEITHER one
Delaying a finished OS X for half a year for the sake of better VIsta support is utterly absurd.
And expecting just a couple more test releases before Final Candidate ignores the history of much more frequent updates preceding completion of past versions.
[/I]Wu noted that Spring technically runs from around March 20 to June 20 every year, which would give Apple nearly three more months to meet its self-imposed ship deadline. [/I]
I am not sure if 'self-imposed' was the proper term. All Steve said in his keynote at the 2006 WWDC was, "“Now we plan to get done with Leopard, and ship it this coming spring. So we working very hard on this, and we think we are going to get it out next spring.” Nothing has been said to change it.
"[/I]However, he (Wu) acknowledged that a concerns amongst developers is that they are still in the dark on the software's "top secret" feature set."[/I]
First of all, I would be very surprised if there is much of a concern amongst many developers. I for one am not. When he gave out the Leopard Developer Preview, most would feel quite comfortable that they had all they need for now. And if more were required it would come.
Remember all Steve said was, “There’s some top features to Leopard that we are going to keep close to the vest and not going to show you today. I just want you to know that they are there. We don’t want our friends to start their photocopiers any sooner than they have to, and so we are going to keep a few things secret…” Nothing else.
As for Appleinsider's statement that, "Apple had decided not to compete in the sub-$800 PC market," I am not sure that is reference is quite accurate. I do recall that it was said that, "…we don't think we can make a lot of money there." There is a difference was not actually stated.
As an analyst, I find Wu quite knowledgeable and his stock recommendations well worth considering. However, for Apple product announcements, there is nothing more accurate than that that comes from the horse's mouth and/or the Apple officialdome. From anywhere else is basically hearsay and/or conjecture…perhaps enough to perk my interests, but insufficient to hang my life on.
Pray tell what commercials of the new OS have you been apprised of? Even so at this stage, what would you be concerned of?
So you as a marketer wouldn't post a line-up for the fall TV season, Monday Night Football, Movies, your daughter's impending wedding, etc., until the day of the event. I would only be concerned if it where your obituary.
Come on, you know what I am talking about... the constant tease for every Apple product is getting old !
And looking at iTunes for Windows interface, you'd have to think their UI group trained in Redmond (menus in the title bar???).
Well, given the way the Windows interface works, I can't think of any better place to put the iTunes for Windows menus... Short of forcing iTunes to run in maximized mode all the time. Let's give Apple's Windows developers the benefit of understanding that they have to work within the limits of the OS they're coding for.
Well, that's not saying much, since the competition is what? Vista? XP? Linux? Hell, as long as it didn't look like dog poo, it would take the top spot.
dog poo!!!11!!!! it's brown, like a Zune!!!!11!!!!1!
The iPod service appears under services in msconfig, and can be disabled.
This is standard functionality. Unless there is something strange going on?
Oh, you can TRY to disable it, but run itunes, and it re-enables (not just turn it off and watch iTunes turn it on, but literally re-enable it after disabling it). Even more heinous, if you delete it (to maybe go "Hey, let me just remove this crap from my computer, then they can't start it!"), itunes just reinstalls it, and then turns it on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfmorrison
Well, given the way the Windows interface works, I can't think of any better place to put the iTunes for Windows menus... Short of forcing iTunes to run in maximized mode all the time. Let's give Apple's Windows developers the benefit of understanding that they have to work within the limits of the OS they're coding for.
It was fine in a previous version, where it wasn't in the title bar, per se, but below it. Now it just looks stupid (then again, Apple slapping the brushed theme on a windows app just doesn't work well either, but since that stop apple from applying it in OS X, so I guess it wasn't going to stop them in Windows, either).
Then again, if you've ever used Media Player and they're appearing/disappearing menu, you know MS is completely screwed up in this as well.
Oh, you can TRY to disable it, but run itunes, and it re-enables (not just turn it off and watch iTunes turn it on, but literally re-enable it after disabling it). Even more heinous, if you delete it (to maybe go "Hey, let me just remove this crap from my computer, then they can't start it!"), itunes just reinstalls it, and then turns it on.
Haha? nice. I?ll have to play around with this.
I guess it is no big deal. It isn?t very resource-intensive (though iTunes is on Windows) and iPods were the entire reason why Apple ported iTunes over to Windows. The iTunes service is vital to a great deal of iTunes? and the iPod Software Restore?s iPod-related functionality so it makes some sense to maintain it. Have you noted problems that would make the service a concern?
Come on, you know what I am talking about... the constant tease for every Apple product is getting old !
Old Mac Guy
No, I don't.
Apple on the whole is incredibly secretive. Nearly all the comments regarding forthcoming products are coming from so called analysts rearranging air molecules in the hope people will think them clever.
If they could have, I think Apple would never have announced the iPhone but they were essentially forced to because they have to submit it to the FCC for certification and that is a public process so the cat had to be let out of the bag one way or the other. Also possible is that Cingular wanted heaps of publicity to get people to perhaps defer making non-cingular commitments.
In the case of Leopard, that too has to be pre-announced because it has to be released to developers for testing, otherwise I suspect we wouldn't hear about it until it was ready to ship. Apples recent comment about the Leopard release date wasn't a tease, it was a damage limiting necessity they were reluctantly goaded into by the inaccurate spoutings from Digi times that may have had developers ringing Apple up in a panic.
The Apple TV might be classed a tease, but again, I think outside factors meant it was strategic for them to announce it because Steve is obviously having a hard time getting the intransigent movie studios to join the iTunes party. Announcing it wasn't a tease for us it was a carrot to be dangled in front of them.
Comments
Um - I don't think this is Apple's doing. They said pretty plainly that Leopard is coming out in the spring, and have been keeping the developers well fed with beta updates ever since that announcement.
"Well fed" is up to debate. Unless all developers are so super secret that the rumor sites don't even know they've got the latest builds without all those pesky issues in them. Keep in mind that developers need to test the OS with their software. You can't just hope its going to work.
They say they are pleased with what Parallels has done for virtualization. What if they are bundling that as one of their top secret features? Or for that matter, they could be bundling some other existing product(s) as their top secret feature(s).
Ooh, bundling existing third-party software! Wow, how exciting. Certainly would be something spectacular for everyone to talk about after all the hype of the 'top-secret' features. (Which would more lead people to believe Jobs just made that up last year and they've been trying to come up with something ever since).
And Parallels won't be bundled. First, not everyone needs Windows support and won't want to pay for it. And parallels wouldn't just give their software away without taking a good hunk of cash back, and they wouldn't still be selling it now.
Let's hope the top secret features get tested and aren't released on the unsuspecting public without proper development.
Or that the secret features are just stupid separate apps that don't affect the OS to its core.
He was right about one thing. There's no money in the Mini and last I heard it's the worst selling Mac. [?] They either already enabled them and you missed it or Apple isn't going to enable them in the Developer Builds because Developers may not need them.
Mini sells pretty well. And besides, it is a gateway drug?I mean computer.
The secret features aren?t appearing in the developer previews because if they did, they wouldn?t be very secret. We?d have a more thorough dissection of their capabilities in a day than Apple would ever provide in a public announcement. Developer Previews are designed specifically to aid developers in testing their software for the next-generation OS. It is not meant to be a technology preview. The final product may look different, have different features, and yes, may be more stable and have fewer bugs (but it will also have its own bugs in product elements left out of the previews we?ve been seeing).
It would seem that iCal is not presented because it is probably going to take on the look and feel of the new iLife appas that may also be integrated with Leopard. I think iLife is probably THE major new thing in Leopard, although it would be nice to see some UI refinement (even though Tiger is the best looking and working OS out there).
Well, that's not saying much, since the competition is what? Vista? XP? Linux? Hell, as long as it didn't look like dog poo, it would take the top spot. And I hope if they tweak it, they fix the inconsistencies and issues everyone has with it, and not just change it just for change sake (and still leave all the inconsistencies and problems people have with it).
I also don't imagine iLife is the major new thing in Leopard. Apple makes a pretty penny suckering $$$ from users to upgrade every year. Why give that up and include it in OS X? Unless they change the OS pricing and charge $200+ for it (up from the projected $150 Leopard will list for). And how many people would not upgrade because they don't want to fork over the extra money for an update to iLife (Leopard at the moment is an iffy upgrade anyway, adding even more to the cost for upgrades to iLife would certainly sway myself and a bunch of others to the "wait and see" camps).
Bootcamp we have known about. The only really shocking thing that they could include would go beyond having some kind of Parallelsesque app, but instead to have a VMWareish inclusion of Windows APIs that can run on Mac OS natively (I also think that Apples legal right to use these is the primary reason why MS has broken so many things with Vista so that Apple cannot natively use the new stuff.
First, I don't think VMWare mimics the Windows API. Its an emulator/virtual machine, like Parallels. I think you're thinking of WINE (which, in general, is a hit or miss proposition, as it only works with selected apps they've tested it with).
Second, Apple always had a legal right to use WINE (they have no right to use VMWare or Parallels, without an agreement that is), so I don't see how Microsoft can suddenly go "Oh crap, let's break vista so Apple's hardware won't work with it!". Keep in mind that Vista has been available for years to developers, and apple should have no problem getting their software to work. I think the main problem is that Apple is just filled with lousy Windows programmers who just hack their way into the system to force their will on the OS, and vista doesn't like that anymore (for example, there's no way to disable the iPod service on windows, regardless of whether you have an ipod or not, unless, perhaps, you only use the computer in limited mode). And looking at iTunes for Windows interface, you'd have to think their UI group trained in Redmond (menus in the title bar???).
Third, I can't imagine MS would think it would be in their best interest to break iTunes/iPod support. Most iPod users are windows users. If the ipod won't work with vista properly, then there's a huge set of their user-base whose NOT upgrading. Add that to the other groups not upgrading, and its just another bullet in the foot.
Anyway, these are the things I am hoping for and would cause me to upgrade my last Rev Powerbook to a shiny new Macbook Pro. I don't use windows apps at all anymore except for one program at work. It would be nice to do all from my Mac without putting money in Mocrosofts pocketbook.[/QUOTE]
(for example, there's no way to disable the iPod service on windows, regardless of whether you have an ipod or not, unless, perhaps, you only use the computer in limited mode). And looking at iTunes for Windows interface, you'd have to think their UI group trained in Redmond (menus in the title bar???).
The iPod service appears under services in msconfig, and can be disabled.
This is standard functionality. Unless there is something strange going on?
Delayed until October, coming out in a few weeks... you hear both sides, and there is no reason to trust either one.
No, but there's reason to trust NEITHER one
Delaying a finished OS X for half a year for the sake of better VIsta support is utterly absurd.
And expecting just a couple more test releases before Final Candidate ignores the history of much more frequent updates preceding completion of past versions.
http://www.amtechresearch.com/compan...0&Sidebar=True
Nice to know all his contact information is public so people could send him inside info
Hi I'm Shaw Wu
http://www.amtechresearch.com/compan...0&Sidebar=True
Nice to know all his contact information is public so people could send him inside info
Oooh.... a local phone number. Maybe I can pay him a visit
Sebastian
I am not sure if 'self-imposed' was the proper term. All Steve said in his keynote at the 2006 WWDC was, "“Now we plan to get done with Leopard, and ship it this coming spring. So we working very hard on this, and we think we are going to get it out next spring.” Nothing has been said to change it.
"[/I]However, he (Wu) acknowledged that a concerns amongst developers is that they are still in the dark on the software's "top secret" feature set."[/I]
First of all, I would be very surprised if there is much of a concern amongst many developers. I for one am not. When he gave out the Leopard Developer Preview, most would feel quite comfortable that they had all they need for now. And if more were required it would come.
Remember all Steve said was, “There’s some top features to Leopard that we are going to keep close to the vest and not going to show you today. I just want you to know that they are there. We don’t want our friends to start their photocopiers any sooner than they have to, and so we are going to keep a few things secret…” Nothing else.
As for Appleinsider's statement that, "Apple had decided not to compete in the sub-$800 PC market," I am not sure that is reference is quite accurate. I do recall that it was said that, "…we don't think we can make a lot of money there." There is a difference was not actually stated.
As an analyst, I find Wu quite knowledgeable and his stock recommendations well worth considering. However, for Apple product announcements, there is nothing more accurate than that that comes from the horse's mouth and/or the Apple officialdome. From anywhere else is basically hearsay and/or conjecture…perhaps enough to perk my interests, but insufficient to hang my life on.
Pray tell what commercials of the new OS have you been apprised of? Even so at this stage, what would you be concerned of?
So you as a marketer wouldn't post a line-up for the fall TV season, Monday Night Football, Movies, your daughter's impending wedding, etc., until the day of the event. I would only be concerned if it where your obituary.
Come on, you know what I am talking about... the constant tease for every Apple product is getting old !
Old Mac Guy
And looking at iTunes for Windows interface, you'd have to think their UI group trained in Redmond (menus in the title bar???).
Well, given the way the Windows interface works, I can't think of any better place to put the iTunes for Windows menus... Short of forcing iTunes to run in maximized mode all the time. Let's give Apple's Windows developers the benefit of understanding that they have to work within the limits of the OS they're coding for.
Oooh.... a local phone number. Maybe I can pay him a visit
Sebastian
I was thinking the same! How bout all us locals go down and pay him a visit?
As for Wu's comment that, "Apple had decided not to compete in the sub-$800 PC market,"
That wasn't Wu saying that. It was AI pointing out that Apple have in the past said one thing, and then done the opposite not very much later.
Well, that's not saying much, since the competition is what? Vista? XP? Linux? Hell, as long as it didn't look like dog poo, it would take the top spot.
dog poo!!!11!!!! it's brown, like a Zune!!!!11!!!!1!
That wasn't Wu saying that. It was AI pointing out that Apple have in the past said one thing, and then done the opposite not very much later.
Thank you for pointing it out. I made the correction to my original post.
The iPod service appears under services in msconfig, and can be disabled.
This is standard functionality. Unless there is something strange going on?
Oh, you can TRY to disable it, but run itunes, and it re-enables (not just turn it off and watch iTunes turn it on, but literally re-enable it after disabling it). Even more heinous, if you delete it (to maybe go "Hey, let me just remove this crap from my computer, then they can't start it!"), itunes just reinstalls it, and then turns it on.
Well, given the way the Windows interface works, I can't think of any better place to put the iTunes for Windows menus... Short of forcing iTunes to run in maximized mode all the time. Let's give Apple's Windows developers the benefit of understanding that they have to work within the limits of the OS they're coding for.
It was fine in a previous version, where it wasn't in the title bar, per se, but below it. Now it just looks stupid (then again, Apple slapping the brushed theme on a windows app just doesn't work well either, but since that stop apple from applying it in OS X, so I guess it wasn't going to stop them in Windows, either).
Then again, if you've ever used Media Player and they're appearing/disappearing menu, you know MS is completely screwed up in this as well.
Oh, you can TRY to disable it, but run itunes, and it re-enables (not just turn it off and watch iTunes turn it on, but literally re-enable it after disabling it). Even more heinous, if you delete it (to maybe go "Hey, let me just remove this crap from my computer, then they can't start it!"), itunes just reinstalls it, and then turns it on.
Haha? nice. I?ll have to play around with this.
I guess it is no big deal. It isn?t very resource-intensive (though iTunes is on Windows) and iPods were the entire reason why Apple ported iTunes over to Windows. The iTunes service is vital to a great deal of iTunes? and the iPod Software Restore?s iPod-related functionality so it makes some sense to maintain it. Have you noted problems that would make the service a concern?
Come on, you know what I am talking about... the constant tease for every Apple product is getting old !
Old Mac Guy
No, I don't.
Apple on the whole is incredibly secretive. Nearly all the comments regarding forthcoming products are coming from so called analysts rearranging air molecules in the hope people will think them clever.
If they could have, I think Apple would never have announced the iPhone but they were essentially forced to because they have to submit it to the FCC for certification and that is a public process so the cat had to be let out of the bag one way or the other. Also possible is that Cingular wanted heaps of publicity to get people to perhaps defer making non-cingular commitments.
In the case of Leopard, that too has to be pre-announced because it has to be released to developers for testing, otherwise I suspect we wouldn't hear about it until it was ready to ship. Apples recent comment about the Leopard release date wasn't a tease, it was a damage limiting necessity they were reluctantly goaded into by the inaccurate spoutings from Digi times that may have had developers ringing Apple up in a panic.
The Apple TV might be classed a tease, but again, I think outside factors meant it was strategic for them to announce it because Steve is obviously having a hard time getting the intransigent movie studios to join the iTunes party. Announcing it wasn't a tease for us it was a carrot to be dangled in front of them.