I've always felt the mighty mouse as a whole was a solution looking for a problem. Apparently Apple is the only company out there who thinks that having two specific buttons is a major headache/design flaw, and building a mouse as a big button that depends on finger location to know left or right click was the cure.
And the ball is another "Look what we can do different!" feature that solved the never-ending problem of scroll-wheel reliability/usability.
Apple just needs to stop always putting design and form over function. I mean, the macbook pro looks nice and all, but couldn't they make it a little clunkier but easy to replace the harddrive???
That's what makes Apple a great company! You'll notice it's only the geeks who complain about the Mighty Mouse. Most ordinary people don't care. They like the mouse fine. I admit though, that the Mighty Mouse is sort of petty about not having multiple buttons.
By keeping things simple and intuitive, Apple *IS* putting function over design and form. You can have all the functionality in the world, but if it's not designed well, it's worthless. If Apple took advice about functionality from geeks like us they wouldn't be as good, because they don't design products for geeks like us. They design them for the ordinary person and that's where their strength is.
Keep hands clean. It's always a good idea anyway. I swear to god some people just don't care about personal hygiene.
I'd say I was pretty clean most of the time, however, the little critter is in my hand for 12-18 hours a day, 7 days a week normally for me so I guess I'm using it more than you do to get a year out of it. I also reckon it's not dirt/grease on the hands that's the problem as that can be cleaned off with an alcohol swipe and the mouse upside down. I reckon it's specks of dirt, an eyelash or whatever jamming in the roller rather than dirt on the ball/roller interface that stops the roller going round.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaPeaJay
That's what makes Apple a great company! You'll notice it's only the geeks who complain about the Mighty Mouse. Most ordinary people don't care. They like the mouse fine. I admit though, that the Mighty Mouse is sort of petty about not having multiple buttons.
By keeping things simple and intuitive, Apple *IS* putting function over design and form. You can have all the functionality in the world, but if it's not designed well, it's worthless. If Apple took advice about functionality from geeks like us they wouldn't be as good, because they don't design products for geeks like us. They design them for the ordinary person and that's where their strength is.
There's nothing wrong with being a geek *AND* liking good aesthetic design. I spend most of my time looking at a computer all day so making it look good too shouldn't be dismissed as unimportant, even when I'm doing über geek tasks like writing code. I once worked in a mainframe machine room staring at large blue and orange boxes and green screens all day - no windows and the sound of large air con fans all around. The work itself was a geek wet dream but the environment I worked in wasn't pleasant.
I also think the 'no buttons' design is quite good for computer novices who have real problems with two button mice and context menus. I bought my parents a MacBook at Christmas and having just one button to press is one of the things they really like in comparison to the multi button nightmare they had with their old Windows PC.
Come on, Apple. Stop trying to "improve" the mouse and just give us another MultiTouch tablet. The iGesture can do all this and more but it needs to be in production again if people are going to buy it. I live in some fear that my iGesture tablet is going to drop dead someday and I'll have to replace it with one of the rare ones that sell on eBay for 3x original retail price. But what can I say, once you go MultiTouch, you never want to go back. This patent is, after all, nothing more than an adaptation of MultiTouch functionality. Fingerworks iGesture users have been using 1 finger to move text cursor, two to move mouse pointer, four to scroll and pan for years. It's easy for some people to claim "it takes too much effort" because they've never actually used such gestures.
Hmm... I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I'd say, they design products for Steve right now, so nearly everything reflects his likes.
Well I would venture to say that Steve has a good eye for design, and knows what the average person needs and is looking for. He turned Apple around with it! There's no debating that.
There is a fine balance between good design and functionality.
That's what makes Apple a great company! You'll notice it's only the geeks who complain about the Mighty Mouse. Most ordinary people don't care. They like the mouse fine. I admit though, that the Mighty Mouse is sort of petty about not having multiple buttons.
By keeping things simple and intuitive, Apple *IS* putting function over design and form. You can have all the functionality in the world, but if it's not designed well, it's worthless. If Apple took advice about functionality from geeks like us they wouldn't be as good, because they don't design products for geeks like us. They design them for the ordinary person and that's where their strength is.
No, the complaints I usually see on the mighty mouse come down to "its great as a one button mouse, but its a pain using the right-click". People shouldn't have to re-invent the way they've used a device just because Apple decides they want to "improve" it. Apple didn't make a "better mouse", they just made a "different" mouse. Basically, the whole single-button design was done because apple doesn't want to have a multi-button mouse "by default". You still need to enable the right-click, so half the users may not even know there is a right-click.
As for design over functionality, apple overdoes it (and I look at design as in looks, not 'ease of use', which is completely different and a whole different topic). Again, why can MacBook owners easily swap out a hard drive, but macbook pro owners can't? Or, more imporatantly, why in the hell does a mac tower have to weigh 60 pounds? My G5 looks nice (for those three seconds I see it sitting under the desk every day), but after that, who cares? I see my Dell for the same amount of time. Yes, the PowerMac "looks" nicer. But, it can only hold two hard drives, and three PCI slots (one a PCI-X). I've got three firewire disks sitting on my desk because I can't put them in my mac. I also need a USB hub because once you plug in the keyboard and UPS, there's no more available ports on the back of the computer! What kind of stupidity is that? My crappy looking dell tower was way cheaper, is smaller, lighter, can have more hard drives, two external bays, a PCI-Express slot, 8 USB ports, etc, etc, etc.
Sorry, but Apple worries too much about things looking good, and not enough about what people actually need.
Well, I hope they wait at least 6 months after iPhone to come up with more touch-screen products, because i've got the distinct feeling that touch-screen will soon be a thing of the past for a 3rd time in the last 3 decades. I think the touch screen will doom not only iPhone, but make the forums light up with people talking about how they wish Apple would re-release the small-screen iPod...
While I think the Mighty Mouse feels pretty crappy as a product already, I think a touch interface would make it even less intuitive. I'll stick with my logitech, which has buttons and scroll wheel in all the right places... It's great that Apple is trying to re-invent the wheel so often, but they've also stuck to their guns a little too long on things like 1 button mouses and trackpads, no forward delete key, using different names than ctrl and alt (at least in North Americal), and of course not supporting quality audio/video codec options like XVid, FLAC, etc. etc.
Also, anyone who thinks the Mighty Mouse is "functional and intuitive" must think that only needing one hand to use a mouse is not, which seems ridiculous to me. Needing a hand on the keyboard to get right-click functionality seems to defeat one of the great uses of the mouse, namely, one-handed functionality...
You almost had me until you said using different names than ctrl? What is that left bottom and right bottom key on your keyboard? Why does the keyboard mapping ^ point to ctrl, why do the docs say to use control-c to quit a terminal process? All they did was replace the windows key with command... I love command so much more than control on windows. It's a lot easier to keep my hand in home row position and use my thumb then to move my entire hand to put my pinky on control.
You almost had me until you said using different names than ctrl? What is that left bottom and right bottom key on your keyboard? Why does the keyboard mapping ^ point to ctrl, why do the docs say to use control-c to quit a terminal process? All they did was replace the windows key with command... I love command so much more than control on windows. It's a lot easier to keep my hand in home row position and use my thumb then to move my entire hand to put my pinky on control.
Sorry, I'm just thinking about documentation issues, or switching between windows and osx apps, when it becomes confusing and redundant to have to constantly translate and remember the differences between command, option, control, alt, etc. It wouldn't be so bad if option was always the same as alt, etc. but it isn't in apps like photoshop and logic.
Also, I bought my macbook in Denmark, where the option key doesn't exist (it is called the alt key here), but is still referred to in all of the documentation, which is ridiculous. It feels like Apple could save some needless headaches by going with the keyboard layout which exists on over 80% of computers (also, by including a forward-delete key...). I know it's a pride thing to the brand to stick with some of its unique things like this, but it's also a waste of energy in my opinion.
Rather than detecting different hand positions, how about letting the user tilt the mouse horizontally or vertically to scroll & pan? The greater the angle, the faster the scroll, like rolling a ball bearing around on a surface.
Rather than detecting different hand positions, how about letting the user tilt the mouse horizontally or vertically to scroll & pan? The greater the angle, the faster the scroll, like rolling a ball bearing around on a surface.
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.
Try it in all 4 directions with your own mouse, imagine doing it 20 times a day and you'll see just how bad an idea that is.
No, the complaints I usually see on the mighty mouse come down to "its great as a one button mouse, but its a pain using the right-click". People shouldn't have to re-invent the way they've used a device just because Apple decides they want to "improve" it. Apple didn't make a "better mouse", they just made a "different" mouse. Basically, the whole single-button design was done because apple doesn't want to have a multi-button mouse "by default". You still need to enable the right-click, so half the users may not even know there is a right-click.
I wonder what the proportion of users who complain about it to users who are more than happy with it is? Some people like those monstrous Logitech mice with 18 buttons carved to resemble a croissant too. IMHO those are usually the ones complaining about simple mice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer
As for design over functionality, apple overdoes it (and I look at design as in looks, not 'ease of use', which is completely different and a whole different topic).
At least since the death of the G3 iMac, IMHO Apple's design has been a study in simple clean design. It's far from 'overdone'. When I think of overdone design I tend to think of Alienware or those horrible Ferrari Acer laptops which I'd be frankly embarrassed to be seen with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer
Again, why can MacBook owners easily swap out a hard drive, but macbook pro owners can't? Or, more imporatantly, why in the hell does a mac tower have to weigh 60 pounds?
Ah, so you are talking about ease of use not looks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer
My G5 looks nice (for those three seconds I see it sitting under the desk every day), but after that, who cares? I see my Dell for the same amount of time. Yes, the PowerMac "looks" nicer. But, it can only hold two hard drives, and three PCI slots (one a PCI-X). I've got three firewire disks sitting on my desk because I can't put them in my mac. I also need a USB hub because once you plug in the keyboard and UPS, there's no more available ports on the back of the computer! What kind of stupidity is that? My crappy looking dell tower was way cheaper, is smaller, lighter, can have more hard drives, two external bays, a PCI-Express slot, 8 USB ports, etc, etc, etc.
Sorry, but Apple worries too much about things looking good, and not enough about what people actually need.
You're conflating what YOU need with what 'people' need. Apart from that, they've fixed all the issues you site above in the Mac Pros.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five
No thanks. I require tactile feedback... and a non horse-pill shape.
You seem to be unaware that the whole mouse shell moves when you click it. Can't get more tactile than the whole thing moving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass
Well, I hope they wait at least 6 months after iPhone to come up with more touch-screen products, because i've got the distinct feeling that touch-screen will soon be a thing of the past for a 3rd time in the last 3 decades. I think the touch screen will doom not only iPhone, but make the forums light up with people talking about how they wish Apple would re-release the small-screen iPod...
Really, why do you think that?
Even outside of Apple, touch screens don't seem to be going away with phones from LG and Sony Ericsson using them. And I don't think you can buy a GPS unit for the car that isn't touch screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass
It's great that Apple is trying to re-invent the wheel so often, but they've also stuck to their guns a little too long on things like 1 button mouses and trackpads, no forward delete key, using different names than ctrl and alt (at least in North Americal), and of course not supporting quality audio/video codec options like XVid, FLAC, etc. etc.
Apple have supported multi button mice since at least the 1990s and have had a forward delete key since the 1980's Apple Extended Keyboard (which I still have - it's just a geat keyboard). They do occasionally drop keys on and off their keyboards though, especially the more compact keyboards. I can't think of a time they've renamed Ctrl and Option though they do put 'alt' on the option key now to appease switchers. Can anyone clear up why they started putting the Apple logo on the Command key? There would be an awful lot less visual cruft if they got rid of the alt and apple logo keytops on the keys and they just had the keytops used in menus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass
Also, anyone who thinks the Mighty Mouse is "functional and intuitive" must think that only needing one hand to use a mouse is not, which seems ridiculous to me. Needing a hand on the keyboard to get right-click functionality seems to defeat one of the great uses of the mouse, namely, one-handed functionality...
Huh? the Mighty Mouse's raison d'etre is that it's a MULTI BUTTON mouse, including right click. There's no need to use the ctrl key for right clicks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass
and of course not supporting quality audio/video codec options like XVid, FLAC, etc. etc.
XVid is a quality codec???? That's funny. At best it's a more functional fix for DivX which is a ripped off bastard port of Microsoft's bastardization of the MPEG4 standard into it's own shitty container. There's a reason neither Microsoft or Apple or indeed any major company supports DivX or XVid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647
All they did was replace the windows key with command
I think you'll find the command key was there a long time before the Windows key was even thought of - a decade or so in fact.
Comments
I've always felt the mighty mouse as a whole was a solution looking for a problem. Apparently Apple is the only company out there who thinks that having two specific buttons is a major headache/design flaw, and building a mouse as a big button that depends on finger location to know left or right click was the cure.
And the ball is another "Look what we can do different!" feature that solved the never-ending problem of scroll-wheel reliability/usability.
Apple just needs to stop always putting design and form over function. I mean, the macbook pro looks nice and all, but couldn't they make it a little clunkier but easy to replace the harddrive???
That's what makes Apple a great company! You'll notice it's only the geeks who complain about the Mighty Mouse. Most ordinary people don't care. They like the mouse fine. I admit though, that the Mighty Mouse is sort of petty about not having multiple buttons.
By keeping things simple and intuitive, Apple *IS* putting function over design and form. You can have all the functionality in the world, but if it's not designed well, it's worthless. If Apple took advice about functionality from geeks like us they wouldn't be as good, because they don't design products for geeks like us. They design them for the ordinary person and that's where their strength is.
They design them for the ordinary person and that's where their strength is.
Hmm... I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I'd say, they design products for Steve right now, so nearly everything reflects his likes.
Those are the ugliest hands I've ever seen!
I was thinking that exact thing.
Keep hands clean. It's always a good idea anyway. I swear to god some people just don't care about personal hygiene.
I'd say I was pretty clean most of the time, however, the little critter is in my hand for 12-18 hours a day, 7 days a week normally for me so I guess I'm using it more than you do to get a year out of it. I also reckon it's not dirt/grease on the hands that's the problem as that can be cleaned off with an alcohol swipe and the mouse upside down. I reckon it's specks of dirt, an eyelash or whatever jamming in the roller rather than dirt on the ball/roller interface that stops the roller going round.
That's what makes Apple a great company! You'll notice it's only the geeks who complain about the Mighty Mouse. Most ordinary people don't care. They like the mouse fine. I admit though, that the Mighty Mouse is sort of petty about not having multiple buttons.
By keeping things simple and intuitive, Apple *IS* putting function over design and form. You can have all the functionality in the world, but if it's not designed well, it's worthless. If Apple took advice about functionality from geeks like us they wouldn't be as good, because they don't design products for geeks like us. They design them for the ordinary person and that's where their strength is.
There's nothing wrong with being a geek *AND* liking good aesthetic design. I spend most of my time looking at a computer all day so making it look good too shouldn't be dismissed as unimportant, even when I'm doing über geek tasks like writing code. I once worked in a mainframe machine room staring at large blue and orange boxes and green screens all day - no windows and the sound of large air con fans all around. The work itself was a geek wet dream but the environment I worked in wasn't pleasant.
I also think the 'no buttons' design is quite good for computer novices who have real problems with two button mice and context menus. I bought my parents a MacBook at Christmas and having just one button to press is one of the things they really like in comparison to the multi button nightmare they had with their old Windows PC.
Hmm... I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I'd say, they design products for Steve right now, so nearly everything reflects his likes.
Well I would venture to say that Steve has a good eye for design, and knows what the average person needs and is looking for. He turned Apple around with it! There's no debating that.
There is a fine balance between good design and functionality.
That's what makes Apple a great company! You'll notice it's only the geeks who complain about the Mighty Mouse. Most ordinary people don't care. They like the mouse fine. I admit though, that the Mighty Mouse is sort of petty about not having multiple buttons.
By keeping things simple and intuitive, Apple *IS* putting function over design and form. You can have all the functionality in the world, but if it's not designed well, it's worthless. If Apple took advice about functionality from geeks like us they wouldn't be as good, because they don't design products for geeks like us. They design them for the ordinary person and that's where their strength is.
No, the complaints I usually see on the mighty mouse come down to "its great as a one button mouse, but its a pain using the right-click". People shouldn't have to re-invent the way they've used a device just because Apple decides they want to "improve" it. Apple didn't make a "better mouse", they just made a "different" mouse. Basically, the whole single-button design was done because apple doesn't want to have a multi-button mouse "by default". You still need to enable the right-click, so half the users may not even know there is a right-click.
As for design over functionality, apple overdoes it (and I look at design as in looks, not 'ease of use', which is completely different and a whole different topic). Again, why can MacBook owners easily swap out a hard drive, but macbook pro owners can't? Or, more imporatantly, why in the hell does a mac tower have to weigh 60 pounds? My G5 looks nice (for those three seconds I see it sitting under the desk every day), but after that, who cares? I see my Dell for the same amount of time. Yes, the PowerMac "looks" nicer. But, it can only hold two hard drives, and three PCI slots (one a PCI-X). I've got three firewire disks sitting on my desk because I can't put them in my mac. I also need a USB hub because once you plug in the keyboard and UPS, there's no more available ports on the back of the computer! What kind of stupidity is that? My crappy looking dell tower was way cheaper, is smaller, lighter, can have more hard drives, two external bays, a PCI-Express slot, 8 USB ports, etc, etc, etc.
Sorry, but Apple worries too much about things looking good, and not enough about what people actually need.
Get with it, Apple. Your mice have sucked ever since the Puck.
-Clive
While I think the Mighty Mouse feels pretty crappy as a product already, I think a touch interface would make it even less intuitive. I'll stick with my logitech, which has buttons and scroll wheel in all the right places... It's great that Apple is trying to re-invent the wheel so often, but they've also stuck to their guns a little too long on things like 1 button mouses and trackpads, no forward delete key, using different names than ctrl and alt (at least in North Americal), and of course not supporting quality audio/video codec options like XVid, FLAC, etc. etc.
Also, anyone who thinks the Mighty Mouse is "functional and intuitive" must think that only needing one hand to use a mouse is not, which seems ridiculous to me. Needing a hand on the keyboard to get right-click functionality seems to defeat one of the great uses of the mouse, namely, one-handed functionality...
You almost had me until you said using different names than ctrl? What is that left bottom and right bottom key on your keyboard? Why does the keyboard mapping ^ point to ctrl, why do the docs say to use control-c to quit a terminal process? All they did was replace the windows key with command... I love command so much more than control on windows. It's a lot easier to keep my hand in home row position and use my thumb then to move my entire hand to put my pinky on control.
Sorry, I'm just thinking about documentation issues, or switching between windows and osx apps, when it becomes confusing and redundant to have to constantly translate and remember the differences between command, option, control, alt, etc. It wouldn't be so bad if option was always the same as alt, etc. but it isn't in apps like photoshop and logic.
Also, I bought my macbook in Denmark, where the option key doesn't exist (it is called the alt key here), but is still referred to in all of the documentation, which is ridiculous. It feels like Apple could save some needless headaches by going with the keyboard layout which exists on over 80% of computers (also, by including a forward-delete key...). I know it's a pride thing to the brand to stick with some of its unique things like this, but it's also a waste of energy in my opinion.
I see your point though...
I knew it.
So did I, thats why I started this thread last July. I for one can't wait for that ball to be gone.
For more, see: http://stealthisidea.com/articles/tilt-mouse/
So did I, thats why I started this thread last July. I for one can't wait for that ball to be gone.
Twisted minds think alike!
Rather than detecting different hand positions, how about letting the user tilt the mouse horizontally or vertically to scroll & pan? The greater the angle, the faster the scroll, like rolling a ball bearing around on a surface.
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.
Try it in all 4 directions with your own mouse, imagine doing it 20 times a day and you'll see just how bad an idea that is.
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.
Try it in all 4 directions with your own mouse, imagine doing it 20 times a day and you'll see just how bad an idea that is.
You are right that a steep tilt angle would kill. A little tilt would have to go a long way.
No, the complaints I usually see on the mighty mouse come down to "its great as a one button mouse, but its a pain using the right-click". People shouldn't have to re-invent the way they've used a device just because Apple decides they want to "improve" it. Apple didn't make a "better mouse", they just made a "different" mouse. Basically, the whole single-button design was done because apple doesn't want to have a multi-button mouse "by default". You still need to enable the right-click, so half the users may not even know there is a right-click.
I wonder what the proportion of users who complain about it to users who are more than happy with it is? Some people like those monstrous Logitech mice with 18 buttons carved to resemble a croissant too. IMHO those are usually the ones complaining about simple mice.
As for design over functionality, apple overdoes it (and I look at design as in looks, not 'ease of use', which is completely different and a whole different topic).
At least since the death of the G3 iMac, IMHO Apple's design has been a study in simple clean design. It's far from 'overdone'. When I think of overdone design I tend to think of Alienware or those horrible Ferrari Acer laptops which I'd be frankly embarrassed to be seen with.
Again, why can MacBook owners easily swap out a hard drive, but macbook pro owners can't? Or, more imporatantly, why in the hell does a mac tower have to weigh 60 pounds?
Ah, so you are talking about ease of use not looks.
My G5 looks nice (for those three seconds I see it sitting under the desk every day), but after that, who cares? I see my Dell for the same amount of time. Yes, the PowerMac "looks" nicer. But, it can only hold two hard drives, and three PCI slots (one a PCI-X). I've got three firewire disks sitting on my desk because I can't put them in my mac. I also need a USB hub because once you plug in the keyboard and UPS, there's no more available ports on the back of the computer! What kind of stupidity is that? My crappy looking dell tower was way cheaper, is smaller, lighter, can have more hard drives, two external bays, a PCI-Express slot, 8 USB ports, etc, etc, etc.
Sorry, but Apple worries too much about things looking good, and not enough about what people actually need.
You're conflating what YOU need with what 'people' need. Apart from that, they've fixed all the issues you site above in the Mac Pros.
No thanks. I require tactile feedback... and a non horse-pill shape.
You seem to be unaware that the whole mouse shell moves when you click it. Can't get more tactile than the whole thing moving.
Well, I hope they wait at least 6 months after iPhone to come up with more touch-screen products, because i've got the distinct feeling that touch-screen will soon be a thing of the past for a 3rd time in the last 3 decades. I think the touch screen will doom not only iPhone, but make the forums light up with people talking about how they wish Apple would re-release the small-screen iPod...
Really, why do you think that?
Even outside of Apple, touch screens don't seem to be going away with phones from LG and Sony Ericsson using them. And I don't think you can buy a GPS unit for the car that isn't touch screen.
It's great that Apple is trying to re-invent the wheel so often, but they've also stuck to their guns a little too long on things like 1 button mouses and trackpads, no forward delete key, using different names than ctrl and alt (at least in North Americal), and of course not supporting quality audio/video codec options like XVid, FLAC, etc. etc.
Apple have supported multi button mice since at least the 1990s and have had a forward delete key since the 1980's Apple Extended Keyboard (which I still have - it's just a geat keyboard). They do occasionally drop keys on and off their keyboards though, especially the more compact keyboards. I can't think of a time they've renamed Ctrl and Option though they do put 'alt' on the option key now to appease switchers. Can anyone clear up why they started putting the Apple logo on the Command key? There would be an awful lot less visual cruft if they got rid of the alt and apple logo keytops on the keys and they just had the keytops used in menus.
Also, anyone who thinks the Mighty Mouse is "functional and intuitive" must think that only needing one hand to use a mouse is not, which seems ridiculous to me. Needing a hand on the keyboard to get right-click functionality seems to defeat one of the great uses of the mouse, namely, one-handed functionality...
Huh? the Mighty Mouse's raison d'etre is that it's a MULTI BUTTON mouse, including right click. There's no need to use the ctrl key for right clicks.
and of course not supporting quality audio/video codec options like XVid, FLAC, etc. etc.
XVid is a quality codec???? That's funny. At best it's a more functional fix for DivX which is a ripped off bastard port of Microsoft's bastardization of the MPEG4 standard into it's own shitty container. There's a reason neither Microsoft or Apple or indeed any major company supports DivX or XVid.
All they did was replace the windows key with command
I think you'll find the command key was there a long time before the Windows key was even thought of - a decade or so in fact.