I've believed for a long time that the Top Secret Features are bull and just another type of marketing type from Apple. It'll probably just be a new version of iLife or something.
Hey when are the new iSight cameras coming out if at all? THeres lots of users out there with older machines / displays that cant do video iChat & wouldnt this be a cool feature to add to your Apple TV?
Yeah, 36 bugs for a OS that has almost 100 million lines of code is WAY too much. You're totally right. Seriously. Too much.
-=|Mgkwho
Did I say that? I just stated that I wouldn't be surprised if the "secret features" in leopard were accounting for some of the "serious bugs" people keep talking about.
Yeah, 36 bugs for a OS that has almost 100 million lines of code is WAY too much. You're totally right. Seriously. Too much.
-=|Mgkwho
Because, the database program I use that is 'stable' for our law firm has a fraction the code and twice the bugs... I guess it must be pre-alpha. AND WE PAY FOR IT!
Ok, first, if Leopard is as revolutionary as Apple wants us to think, then it's probably a really strange build that they're seeding to the developers. A mixed build that has a lot of Tiger still in it. I can imagine a couple of bugs are sprouting from that procedure too.
But ok. Leopard will come as 10.5. And a month or two later there will be the first 10.5.1 update. The 10.5 will have bugs, yes.. but doesn't every major release contain a handful of bugs? 30 more or less outstanding bugs doesn't sound bad. It sounds like they're on track.
I think the issue now is how long before the release will Apple need to disclose the top secret features to beta testers in order to resolve outstanding issues.
My suspicions are that Apple has a smaller community of premium developers extracted from the ADC group that Apple deliberately approached with a heavy NDA to be beta testers for the secret features. Apple will work to keep the surprise to a maximum. Most likely on the day of product announcement.
You should though if there is just one critical bug that could ruin your data. Firewire comes into mind. \
Hey, I'm not saying I want my OS to ship with bugs just so it can get out on time. We're still 2 months out and a lot will change between now and then. 36 is puny for a complete OS overhaul.
My main point is that I was making a comparison:
Unreleased OS X Leopard has 7.2% of the number of bugs Vista does and 1.44% of the number of bugs that XP did when it shipped.
How about we judge Leopard against its actual release condition, not the presumed condition the software will be in when its released, and not bugs listed when the software is still under development.
If this is what you're considering a large list then you've never been on the inside managing OS X.
Debian Etch had over 500 outstanding issues 2 months prior to it being stamped April 08, 2007.
Linux Kernel sees hundreds of fixes within a few months.
These are "major" issues. Who knows how many hundreds of lessor, but still important, bugs are known, and just how many are not yet known? Or, how many will be created in the process of fixing these?
IF Apple are keeping a lot of features under wraps as they claimed last year when Steve Jobs pre-announced some features of Leopard it would make sense that there are major problems with items like upgrades and installation.
Remember how long Apple were running OSX on Intel chips BEFORE they lanuched the Intel range of Mac!?!
I'd be willing to bet that Leopard is on schedule and I'm not a gambling man :-)
Win, of course. \ With this series of reports showing a slow progress (never occured so little time before the other scheduled release dates of OS X), it would be difficult to be otherwise.
I'd be okay with Leopard shipping with minor bugs, let's face it, all OSes do (most to be fixed shortly after launch by Software Update- god I love that thing), but I'd hope that Apple would not force a 10.5 ship if there are still major and obvious issues to be resolved. Because if they do, the comparisons to Windows will be plain:
"Hey, I thought you guys were supposed to have your acts together better than Microsoft! Bwahahaha!"... yeah, we can all see the fanboi comments now, can't we?
But while those don't matter, mainstream perception definitely DOES. If Leopard still has very serious, very-easy-to-come-across issues come June, it needs NOT to ship. Apple's reputation is part of what's fueling the resurgence of the Mac. If Apple compromises that to hit a ship date.... ugh.
I do hope they hit their Spring ship date, but it's secondary to quality. Releasing a 'beta OS' makes Apple no better than Microsoft. Here's hoping that Apple's dev team is able to have its cake (ship date) and eat it too (quality).
.
Yay. Looks like Apple listened to me (j/k ). Leopard is pushed back to October. It's the right call.
Of course, to keep Mac sales from stalling in the intervening months, they're likely going to have to get aggressive. A $999 MacBook, 15" MacBook, and a subnotebook would be great introductions in this time span. And yes, even the dreaded minitower, to entice Windows switchers.
Comments
Hey when are the new iSight cameras coming out if at all? THeres lots of users out there with older machines / displays that cant do video iChat & wouldnt this be a cool feature to add to your Apple TV?
I'm still hoping for my multitouch-based Leopard. Multitouch MBP for the win
I'm sure the secret features have something to do with the number of bugs. Apple's reputation is too clean to have a messup that big.
Yeah, 36 bugs for a OS that has almost 100 million lines of code is WAY too much. You're totally right. Seriously. Too much.
-=|Mgkwho
Yeah, 36 bugs for a OS that has almost 100 million lines of code is WAY too much. You're totally right. Seriously. Too much.
It's plagued, I tell ya! PLAGUED!
Yeah, 36 bugs for a OS that has almost 100 million lines of code is WAY too much. You're totally right. Seriously. Too much.
-=|Mgkwho
Did I say that? I just stated that I wouldn't be surprised if the "secret features" in leopard were accounting for some of the "serious bugs" people keep talking about.
I'm sure the secret features have something to do with the number of bugs. Apple's reputation is too clean to have a messup that big.
You're attributing, in plain English, the number of bugs to a messup that is "too" big.
-=|Mgkwho
Yeah, 36 bugs for a OS that has almost 100 million lines of code is WAY too much. You're totally right. Seriously. Too much.
-=|Mgkwho
Because, the database program I use that is 'stable' for our law firm has a fraction the code and twice the bugs... I guess it must be pre-alpha. AND WE PAY FOR IT!
Mommy, I want my money back!
But ok. Leopard will come as 10.5. And a month or two later there will be the first 10.5.1 update. The 10.5 will have bugs, yes.. but doesn't every major release contain a handful of bugs? 30 more or less outstanding bugs doesn't sound bad. It sounds like they're on track.
I think the issue now is how long before the release will Apple need to disclose the top secret features to beta testers in order to resolve outstanding issues.
My suspicions are that Apple has a smaller community of premium developers extracted from the ADC group that Apple deliberately approached with a heavy NDA to be beta testers for the secret features. Apple will work to keep the surprise to a maximum. Most likely on the day of product announcement.
-Clive
Seeing as how XP SHIPPED with 2500 and Vista with 500, I'm not too concered with 36.
-Clive
You should though if there is just one critical bug that could ruin your data. Firewire comes into mind.
You should though if there is just one critical bug that could ruin your data. Firewire comes into mind.
Hey, I'm not saying I want my OS to ship with bugs just so it can get out on time. We're still 2 months out and a lot will change between now and then. 36 is puny for a complete OS overhaul.
My main point is that I was making a comparison:
Unreleased OS X Leopard has 7.2% of the number of bugs Vista does and 1.44% of the number of bugs that XP did when it shipped.
-Clive
How about we judge Leopard against its actual release condition, not the presumed condition the software will be in when its released, and not bugs listed when the software is still under development.
Here Here!
http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/04/...yed.until.oct/
If this is what you're considering a large list then you've never been on the inside managing OS X.
Debian Etch had over 500 outstanding issues 2 months prior to it being stamped April 08, 2007.
Linux Kernel sees hundreds of fixes within a few months.
These are "major" issues. Who knows how many hundreds of lessor, but still important, bugs are known, and just how many are not yet known? Or, how many will be created in the process of fixing these?
IF Apple are keeping a lot of features under wraps as they claimed last year when Steve Jobs pre-announced some features of Leopard it would make sense that there are major problems with items like upgrades and installation.
Remember how long Apple were running OSX on Intel chips BEFORE they lanuched the Intel range of Mac!?!
I'd be willing to bet that Leopard is on schedule and I'm not a gambling man :-)
Looks like you lost. Stay out of the casino.
I agree, keep all easily panicked people away from making dubious posts for the next several months.
How 'bout now?
And the "I doubt it" folks win! Apple just announced Leopard won't be released until October.
http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/04/...yed.until.oct/
Win, of course.
Well, they've got two months and change still.
I'd be okay with Leopard shipping with minor bugs, let's face it, all OSes do (most to be fixed shortly after launch by Software Update- god I love that thing), but I'd hope that Apple would not force a 10.5 ship if there are still major and obvious issues to be resolved. Because if they do, the comparisons to Windows will be plain:
"Hey, I thought you guys were supposed to have your acts together better than Microsoft! Bwahahaha!"... yeah, we can all see the fanboi comments now, can't we?
But while those don't matter, mainstream perception definitely DOES. If Leopard still has very serious, very-easy-to-come-across issues come June, it needs NOT to ship. Apple's reputation is part of what's fueling the resurgence of the Mac. If Apple compromises that to hit a ship date.... ugh.
I do hope they hit their Spring ship date, but it's secondary to quality. Releasing a 'beta OS' makes Apple no better than Microsoft. Here's hoping that Apple's dev team is able to have its cake (ship date) and eat it too (quality).
.
Yay. Looks like Apple listened to me (j/k
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...l_october.html
Of course, to keep Mac sales from stalling in the intervening months, they're likely going to have to get aggressive. A $999 MacBook, 15" MacBook, and a subnotebook would be great introductions in this time span. And yes, even the dreaded minitower, to entice Windows switchers.
Apple Apologista Squad™, commence egg-hurling.
.