Apple delays Leopard release until October

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  • Reply 361 of 504
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,408member
    I don't care too much for the entertainment angle, other than music apps & iTunes.



    I guess that's why AppleTV disappoints me so much. I'd rather it be a standalone piece of hardware that would merely gain additional functionality if used with a Mac.
  • Reply 362 of 504
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Can also mean a delivery timeframe in September as well.



    Good joke......
  • Reply 363 of 504
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Daffy_Duck View Post


    "So the real question to ask Mac users is "what type computing user are you? Are you in it now for the Entertainment or the Productivity?" That will determine the efficacy of Leopard thusfar for your needs. Apple is HEAVY into the productivity right now and a bit light on the Entertainment with Leopard. "



    I'll bite. Tiger has partial support for metadata in the file system. Spotlight can index embedded metadata but it can't create it. The only option is Spotlight comments which are stored in the index, not in the file. In other words, the data is not portable. Adding Spotlight comments is a very tedious affair. I want Apple to really make metadata a part of the system and give us ways to easily create custom data, embedded in the file which is searchable via Spotlight.



    Spotlight has a lot of untapped potential.



    Yes it does. I too wonder if there will be a way to batch assign metadata. Here's a blurb from WWDC 2006



    Quote:

    5) Spotlight



    Spotlight is being enhanced for Leopard. You can search other Macs if you have permissions, and you can search servers. Advanced search options will be available (booleans, filetypes, and other Finder search features). Spotlight will also serve as an applications launcher, and be able to store results of Recent Items.



    I like the ability to Spotlight other computers for files I have permission for. Nice way to search ad hoc networks and serverless networks.
  • Reply 364 of 504
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,121member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AquaMac View Post


    Anyone remember Tiger OS X 10.4.0? Almost everyone was belly aching about how buggy it was. "Why didn't they wait a few months and work out the kinks? If i'm gonna pay $120 bucks I want the bugs worked out. I don't want to pay for being a beta tester." Well let's hope the release in October is much smoother than Tiger's.



    That was a special case. Apple had decided to move to Intel at some time between the start of 10.4, and the early betas.



    Once they came up with a strategy, and decided upon a timeline for it, they had to decide when to announce it.



    Obviously they decided that the dev conf was the time and place, which made sense.



    But, in order to do so they had to move competing issues out of the way. It wouldn't do to announce both Tiger, AND Intel at the same time.



    As the move to Intel was, by far, the most important news, they had to get Tiger out of the way early enough so that it wouldn't become an issue at the conf. Therefor, they released it early, even though it wasn't quite ready.



    this issue is much different from that. While Apple is blaming the iPhone for thios delay. While I think that is, to some extent, a smokescreen, it's likely to be true to some extent, though not to the extent they are saying.



    This is, no doubt, the biggest OS X release Apple has ever made. Apple is big, and rich enough now to be able to hire some more people if they need them. If they are shorthanded, they could have done that. Good coders are not that hard to find, esp. in this environment with much work going overseas.



    I'm just hoping that this release isn't proving to be too much to handle. Apple failed to bring at least one major feature they promised us for 10.4. I hope the same thing isn't happening again, and that we see a complete release in October.
  • Reply 365 of 504
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,121member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Haggar View Post


    So you think that if Vista had only been delayed by 3 months, Apple and all the Microsoft bashers would have stayed silent? Guess again. They would have bashed Microsoft anyway even if Vista was just 1 day late.



    that may be true, but the bashing would have ended almost two years ago, and would be forgotten by now.



    And MS would be most of the way to another release.
  • Reply 366 of 504
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,121member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Brian



    If Apple can deliver a relatively bug free Leopard in October color me amazed. That feat will certainly require more work than the effort to get Tiger out of the door (which was admittedly rocky)



    There's a disconnect between Mac users and Apple. OS X is more complex than any OS we Mac users have had access to. Prior to OS X we never had such huge changes and that's why Copeland died. It couldn't be changed as easily to encompass new modern features while preserving legacy support.



    Now we have OS X which is a toddler at 6yrs old. If you look at the difference between 10.3 and 10.5 it's mind boggling what Apple has done.



    Moved to Intel processors- Painless

    Moved to 64-bit full software stacks- Maybe not so painless



    The Top Secret features are coming and they'll be flashy to entice the "I want my OS to Entertain me" crowd but the stuff that is going to make a difference to those who need productivity will be further maturation of the OS.



    Sync services that work

    Systemwide Calendar data

    Webkit becoming fully modern (AJAX and CSS3)

    Quicktime overhauled

    Applescript- don't call it a comeback



    Like the iPhone Apple has to deliver a working OS X Leopard because people like you who want to use their expensive Mac to get their work done demand that the features work as described.



    Apple has offered no SLA to consumers. They said spring 2007 for their shipdate but no contracts were signed.



    I want them to launch both products "correctly" and I do think that giving themselves 4 more months will allow them to do that. And trust...we will be happy.



    Applause!
  • Reply 367 of 504
    icfireballicfireball Posts: 2,594member
    By Peter Cohen



    No sooner did Apple announce that Leopard had been delayed did the gnashing of teeth and the rending of clothes begin among Macintosh users. Curse the iPhone! It’s nothing but a distraction to Apple, which has more and more become a consumer electronics company!



    No. The iPhone is the point.



    When the iPhone ships in June, it will be the second consumer electronics device to ship this year that uses a version of Mac OS X but isn’t a Mac. The first, of course, was the Apple TV, Apple’s interface for widescreen TVs that makes it possible to sync and stream the contents of your iTunes library to your home entertainment system.



    This is exactly what many of us have been waiting years for Apple to do—migrate out of a singular focus as a computer company and to bring the technology that powers its computers and its design sensibilities to many different products. And it’s something that Apple’s main competitor in the computer space—Microsoft—has been doing for years.



    The iPod, of course, has served as Apple’s gateway drug, introducing many people who’d never consider a Mac to their first taste of Apple product ownership. Most of the evidence is still anecdotal, but there’s definitely an indication that consumers who get iPods are more likely to consider the Macintosh when it comes time to buy their next computer. And they’re definitely visiting Apple retail stores and checking out the Mac while they’re in there.



    But the iPod doesn’t leverage OS X, and it doesn’t really give its users a “Mac-like” experience. The same goes for the Apple TV—it’s largely just a bridge between iTunes on your Mac or PC and your home entertainment system.



    That’s really different from the way the iPhone will work. The iPhone provides a fundamentally different and, from what’s been shown so far, a much more Mac-like, user experience. It has Wi-Fi. It has a variation on Safari for browsing the Web. And it’ll integrate perfectly with the Mac. With any luck, it’ll have an even more profound influence on future generations of computer buyers than the iPod has had.



    But that doesn’t change the fact that Apple has announced a delay in shipping Leopard from June, around the time of its Worldwide Developer Conference to October. Again, this isn’t a bad thing.



    At least some of the people I’ve spoken to, including those involved in Mac OS X application development, are relieved at the delay. It gives them more time to make sure that their code is up to snuff. It also gives Apple more time to resolve any remaining issues, and get developers working on supporting the new features in Leopard. Lest we forget, Apple on Thursday also indicated that it plans to present a complete feature-set to developers who attend WWDC.



    There are others who I’ve spoken to about this that are equally grateful for the extra time—IT staff responsible for supporting Macs in their installations, for example. Any additional time they have to prepare for the transition is welcome.



    By and large, it seems like the biggest percentage of people really put out by this delay are consumers who wanted to buy new Macs but didn’t want to pay for Leopard on top of that—people who were counting on getting a free upgrade or getting a new machine with OS X 10.5 pre-installed.



    But I really think that that’s putting the cart before the horse. You should buy a new computer when you need the new computer, not hedging your bet that you can wait it out for something better to come down the road. It’s inevitable that a better model is just around the corner and that you’re going to feel some sense of buyer’s remorse: Almost every time we post an article about a new Mac model, one of the first posts in response will be from a reader who’s upset because he or she just bought the model that it replaces.



    Getting back to my first point here, I fully recognize that the iPhone isn’t everything to everyone: There are certainly a fair number of folks out there who say the iPhone isn’t for them. In some cases it’s the price. In other cases it’s the carrier. There are countless justifications for why some people aren’t going to get the iPhone, and all of them are perfectly valid. I certainly know a lot of Mac users who don’t have iPods or Apple TVs, and have no interest in getting them, either. That’s fine.



    But at the end of the day, Apple’s goal here is to present a product that’s got the fit and finish we’ve come to demand from Apple. It’s one of the few companies out there that can really deliver what it has promised, even if the deadline slips.



    Should we really expect anything less than excellence from Apple? I certainly don’t want to. The alternatives just aren’t good enough.



    http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/edit...pard/index.php
  • Reply 368 of 504
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,121member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Alexei I agree. Trying to launch two major projects so close was foolish. Apple learned something here that is going to be very valuable.



    I'm willing to bet money that the morale within OS X engineering teams just skyrocked. Being behind generates a lot of stress. Now they can take a breather and fix the issues knowing the "June ship date" Guillotine isn't going to chop their heads off.



    I can't say that I'm not surprised about the petulant behavior of some "fans". There are many people who love to use such events to become the persecutor. They got their justification to launch invective at Apple. Pretty sad and pathetic.



    I hope the Apple Engineers know that their efforts are appreciated. "Some" of us know that Leopard is a phenomenal update, and phenomenons take time.



    Apple is now trying to do what MS has been doing for many years. Get their OS into different product streams.



    What they haven't yet learned is that the can't start with a team that is marginal in size, and spread them out between the divisions.



    They simply need to get sufficient people in place first. They need to create several complete teams for each product, and coordinate their efforts so things don't move in different directions.



    This seems to be the second time in a year when they needed to remove people from one team to made good in another project. This is managements fault. They should have learned from the Aperture project, but perhaps they didn't.
  • Reply 369 of 504
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Apple is now trying to do what MS has been doing for many years. Get their OS into different product streams.



    What they haven't yet learned is that the can't start with a team that is marginal in size, and spread them out between the divisions.



    They simply need to get sufficient people in place first. They need to create several complete teams for each product, and coordinate their efforts so things don't move in different directions.



    This seems to be the second time in a year when they needed to remove people from one team to made good in another project. This is managements fault. They should have learned from the Aperture project, but perhaps they didn't.



    Excellent points Melgross. I was thinking about the whole Aperture brouhaha and how it was similar. Aperture is on its way to stardom so things worked out.



    I don't know if people realize this but payroll is a companies biggest expense and Apple seem to be wringing a lot of production out of a relatively small employee staff. Jon Gruber stated that the OS X team has only increased headcount by %10



    http://daringfireball.net/2007/04/bottleneck



    Quote:

    According to an engineering source at Apple, the OS group headed by Bertrand Serlet has only grown ?just under 10 percent? in the last five years. The apps group, on the other hand, has grown significantly during the same period, and now outnumbers the OS group.



    Wow. Are these guys and gals allowed to have lives?
  • Reply 370 of 504
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,408member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Apple is now trying to do what MS has been doing for many years. Get their OS into different product streams.



    What they haven't yet learned is that the can't start with a team that is marginal in size, and spread them out between the divisions.



    They simply need to get sufficient people in place first. They need to create several complete teams for each product, and coordinate their efforts so things don't move in different directions.



    This seems to be the second time in a year when they needed to remove people from one team to made good in another project. This is managements fault. They should have learned from the Aperture project, but perhaps they didn't.



    Yes, Apple's growing pains translate into our buying and investing pains. It's just a matter of getting the right people in place, but they will have to be some pretty extraordinary people to keep the quality and deliverables in top form. I know of no comparable organization who could pull this off, other than The Mormons.
  • Reply 371 of 504
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,121member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Yes, Apple's growing pains translate into our buying and investing pains. It's just a matter of getting the right people in place, but they will have to be some pretty extraordinary people to keep the quality and deliverables in top form. I know of no comparable organization who could pull this off, other than The Mormons.



    I have to say something about coders, admittedly, something I haven't done in years.



    There are a hell of a lot of very talented coders out in the marketplace right now.



    With industry bringing more work overseas, and bringing people here from overseas, there are a lot of people looking for positions, either because they have lost theirs, or because they think they will lose theirs.



    It isn't the fault of the coders that projects are late. It's the fault of the people who are running the projects, and even the smaller speciality teams. It's the fault of software management for refusing to understand that sometimes just a few more bodies will make a difference.



    When Apple was a much smaller company, it might have been different. They simply couldn't have thought of taking on the work they are now doing. But, as they have decided to do so, they must also understand that it requires a proper effort from them, as well as from the people in the cubby holes.



    Project managers must go into meetings and say that they need more people. They have to take that risk. If they don't, they will be in a much worse hot seat later, as their team fails to deliver a proper product.
  • Reply 372 of 504
    Just a thought.



    What's the status of the new Campus? A quick search shows an AI article just a little under a year ago on April 25th.
  • Reply 373 of 504
    Looprumors reporting Steve will be presenting at NAB!



    http://looprumors.com/article.php?ap...age,2712181245
  • Reply 374 of 504
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ashraman View Post


    Looprumors reporting Steve will be presenting at NAB!



    http://looprumors.com/article.php?ap...age,2712181245



    I need confirmation from another source. LoopRumors isn't amongst my "trusted" sources for info like this. If Stevo is doing to the presentation then this certainly means that the new product introductions will be fairly significant IMO.



    I'm kind of hoping that Apple has the "balls" to make the next Pro Apps "Leopard Only" and force developers and users to quickly migrate to Leopard.
  • Reply 375 of 504
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ashraman View Post


    Looprumors reporting Steve will be presenting at NAB!



    http://looprumors.com/article.php?ap...age,2712181245



    I don't understand how a black iMac would fit in with the event. Was the 17" MBP at the 2006 show really a surprise? If it's hardware that was really targetted at pros, why would it be a surprise to see it updated at a pro show? That whole post really doesn't set well with me.
  • Reply 376 of 504
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,121member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I don't understand how a black iMac would fit in with the event. Was the 17" MBP at the 2006 show really a surprise? If it's hardware that was really targetted at pros, why would it be a surprise to see it updated at a pro show? That whole post really doesn't set well with me.



    I'm not sure why Looprumors is thought so highly by some. They are, well, loopy.



    That doesn't mean that they don't guess correctly sometimes. I think that Jobs has given the presentation at NAB before, or at least a speech.



    As far as black goes, it does make sense in that most pro equipment is black. But if a black iMac does come out, I can't understand why it would be the 17" model. Surely that is the most consumer sized model Apple makes, and schools don't care..



    Corporations also like black. White is just not considered to be anything other than a consumer color.



    They don't state that they have any kind of info, just that they "expect" that certain things will happen.



    I "expect" that certain things will happen as well, but I don't have a website to express them on.
  • Reply 377 of 504
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post




    I "expect" that certain things will happen as well, but I don't have a website to express them on.



    ahem. Get to it.



    www.melgross-media.com







    Looking forward to reading your thoughts on tomorrows announcements. I'm still flabbergasted that Apple has actually plugged all leaks. I remember the "good ole" days when Thinksecret would leak the details the day before.



    I guess with Apple's stock so high ..it's not worth risking your options. :P
  • Reply 378 of 504
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    As far as black goes, it does make sense in that most pro equipment is black. But if a black iMac does come out, I can't understand why it would be the 17" model. Surely that is the most consumer sized model Apple makes, and schools don't care..



    The loop rumors page didn't say 17" iMac that I noticed. White has looked institutional to me for some time now.



    Quote:

    I "expect" that certain things will happen as well, but I don't have a website to express them on.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    ahem. Get to it.

    www.melgross-media.com





    Final Cut Pro needs to include 16 core nanite video soap running OS X! stat!
  • Reply 379 of 504
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,121member
    Well guys, thank you very much, but I couldn't access it.



    Heh heh. You're right about the 17" iMac, Jeff. I took the iMac and the 17" from the MBP from your post, and somehow put them together.



    I must be getting crosseyed.
  • Reply 380 of 504
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Well guys, thank you very much, but I couldn't access it.



    It's not a real site or even a registered domain, just a suggested site name for humor.
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