Is Our Technology Killing Us?

Posted:
in AppleOutsider edited January 2014
This article on cell phones possibly causing the recent and widespread bee colony problems finally caused me to post this thread, a topic which was been gestating in my mind for some time.



http://news.independent.co.uk/enviro...cle2449968.ece



There has already been a link between power lines and cancer, and some link to cell phone usage and tumors. I've always wondered about what having this laptop sitting...well, on my lap might do for me...or to me. It's got a magnetic field and uses wireless transmission for internet. There is a li-ion battery sitting directly overtop my balls right now. How good can that be?



Wireless internet is my big fear. Here is Wiki on the possible effects:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireles...ces_and_health



Not exactly conclusive at all. I know that we simply don't know the effects yet. That said, think about the EMF's you're exposed to on a daily basis. Could these patterns disrupt the body's own electrical signals and/or brainwaves? Could this result in damage to the immune system and processes for cellular repair, etc? Could they affect things like concentration, memory, sleep, etc?



I'm open to any research that anyone is aware of. Your thoughts...
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 38
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,075member
    The bee thing has been debunked on slashdot (why no bee problems in Europe if it is caused by cell phones?).



    If you walk around your house with an EMF meter, most likely the highest value will be coming from your fridge and freezer (higher than you get from being directly under high tension lines, in my case). Fridges and Freezers have been in common usage for 60 years, if it was a major source of illness then we would know it by now.
  • Reply 2 of 38
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,433member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post


    The bee thing has been debunked on slashdot (why no bee problems in Europe if it is caused by cell phones?).



    If you walk around your house with an EMF meter, most likely the highest value will be coming from your fridge and freezer (higher than you get from being directly under high tension lines, in my case). Fridges and Freezers have been in common usage for 60 years, if it was a major source of illness then we would know it by now.



    It's apparently spread to other countries if you read the article. Also, I have to diagree about the fridge. They don't sit on your lap. You're ususally a distance away from them.
  • Reply 3 of 38
    hardeeharharhardeeharhar Posts: 4,841member
    How exactly would a phenomena associated with CELL PHONES spread?



    Is there a rouge cell phone virus that makes them dangerous to bees?



    Or perhaps there's a bee virus that is dangerous to bees?



    Hmm... Perhaps if we all used our thinking caps before we posted we wouldn't look like SDW...
  • Reply 4 of 38
    marcukmarcuk Posts: 4,442member
    before you posted hardeharhar, i was going to leave a somewhat tongue in cheek comment about how hardeeharhar would poo-poo the report because if there wasn't 110% factual proof of radiation causing bees to drop stone dead in their paths, it clearly would only be the mumblings of complete idiots. Obviously I thought better of it at the time, and now only post in retrospect of you having posted first.



    After our last little spat about whether Fluorinated water was good or bad for you, I was somewhat heartened to read a few weeks ago in NS about how trace elements of 'nasties' consumed over a lifetime cause major damage to biological systems, even when the dose of the nasties are below normally assumed safe levels. I thought of you, but I had too much class to bring it up then.



    Now, you didn't read the article SDW posted did you? I find it rather perverse to be on SDW's side of an argument, but there is an interesting thing to be discussed here, and for once, SDW has used his thinking cap, and you definately have not.
  • Reply 5 of 38
    marcukmarcuk Posts: 4,442member
    http://environment.newscientist.com/...bees-gone.html



    http://www.newscientist.com/channel/...-colonies.html



    http://www.newscientist.com/channel/...umble-bee.html



    As to the discussion of whether EMF causes problems. Its a no brainer. EMF has the potential to cause problems - thats entirely obvious to anyone who understands the fundamentals of physics and the physical universe. God only knows why its such a controversial subject. The question should be - does the exposure to EMF cause an acceptable or unacceptable risk we are prepared to accept for the benefits it produces.
  • Reply 6 of 38
    mydomydo Posts: 1,888member
    Sorry folks. Cell phones and Power Lines DO NOT cause cancer. No link has ever been proven. No study that shows a correlation has ever been reproduced. If you can't reproduced it then then it's not proven to be true. [typical internet whining]you didn't link to any proof[/typical internet whining]



    Here's a link. After that find your own



    http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/600_phone.html

    http://www.fcc.gov/oet/rfsafety/



    Google search for powerlines. There's 100s of good pages that debunk this myth.



    But but but .... BUT NOTHING!



    The cell phone thing was started by a lawyer whose wife got a tumor on the same side that she constantly yapped on her phone. She probably got and acoustic neuorma so there's a 50/50 chance it would be on the same side as her constant cell phone yapping.
  • Reply 7 of 38
    Marc... I read TFA.



    The cell phone placed by hive as evidence is laughable and that is the only evidence cited in the article... the rest is speculative nonsense...



    Hypotheses generated from well established facts are perfectly acceptable... but you and your ilk tend to fly off the cuff well before there is any reason to do so and have no means or desire to actually investigate the causes once the speculation has been established...



    All evidence of the commercial bee's collapse suggests a transmittable agent and not EMFs which are not transmittable...



    Generalized EMF of the intensity needed to cause actual and lasting biological damage don't readily exist on earth -- nuclear blasts, lasers being the only notable exceptions.
  • Reply 8 of 38
    @_@ artman@_@ artman Posts: 5,231member
    Let's see what some others have theorized...



    Scientists ask: Where are all the bees?



    "So far, the scientists know only two things for sure, said Dennis vanEnglesdorp, Pennsylvania's state apiarist: The main symptom has been the mass abandonment of hives. And the variety of fungi, viruses and mites found in collapsing hives suggests a widespread failure of the bees' immune systems.



    "It's a lot like AIDS," Hackenberg said.



    The rest, at this point, is conjecture, according to the study group's preliminary report.



    Bees are increasingly trucked long distances to take advantage of crops, such as almonds, that pay high pollination fees. This may strain their ability to recover from infections, the report says, and expose them to a wider range of diseases and toxic chemicals.



    "They forage over a large area so they pick up a lot of junk," Hayes said. "I'm surprised there's a honey bee alive."



    The "prime suspect" for the collapse, according to Hackenberg, is an increasingly popular class of pesticides called neonicotinoids that the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has identified as highly toxic to honeybees.



    Another possible culprit, vanEnglesdorp said, is a new strain of fungus that has appeared in many of the failing hives. But both he and Hayes warned it is far too early to settle on a single cause of the outbreak.



    "The awkward and frustrating thing at this point is that we're all grasping at straws," Hayes said."



    Pesticides, migrating of bees or even genetically modified crops. But cell phones?
  • Reply 9 of 38
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,433member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mydo View Post


    Sorry folks. Cell phones and Power Lines DO NOT cause cancer. No link has ever been proven. No study that shows a correlation has ever been reproduced. If you can't reproduced it then then it's not proven to be true. [typical internet whining]you didn't link to any proof[/typical internet whining]



    Here's a link. After that find your own



    http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/600_phone.html

    http://www.fcc.gov/oet/rfsafety/



    Google search for powerlines. There's 100s of good pages that debunk this myth.



    But but but .... BUT NOTHING!



    The cell phone thing was started by a lawyer whose wife got a tumor on the same side that she constantly yapped on her phone. She probably got and acoustic neuorma so there's a 50/50 chance it would be on the same side as her constant cell phone yapping.



    http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7460



    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/933678.stm



    There are other links as well (regarding power lines). I'm not saying it's proven, but there is some evidence to suggest it. I don't know about cell phones...the evidence is inconclusive, but it does seem to be building. Wholly dimissing it is rather stupid.
  • Reply 10 of 38
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,433member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post


    Let's see what some others have theorized...



    Scientists ask: Where are all the bees?



    "So far, the scientists know only two things for sure, said Dennis vanEnglesdorp, Pennsylvania's state apiarist: The main symptom has been the mass abandonment of hives. And the variety of fungi, viruses and mites found in collapsing hives suggests a widespread failure of the bees' immune systems.



    "It's a lot like AIDS," Hackenberg said.



    The rest, at this point, is conjecture, according to the study group's preliminary report.



    Bees are increasingly trucked long distances to take advantage of crops, such as almonds, that pay high pollination fees. This may strain their ability to recover from infections, the report says, and expose them to a wider range of diseases and toxic chemicals.



    "They forage over a large area so they pick up a lot of junk," Hayes said. "I'm surprised there's a honey bee alive."



    The "prime suspect" for the collapse, according to Hackenberg, is an increasingly popular class of pesticides called neonicotinoids that the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has identified as highly toxic to honeybees.



    Another possible culprit, vanEnglesdorp said, is a new strain of fungus that has appeared in many of the failing hives. But both he and Hayes warned it is far too early to settle on a single cause of the outbreak.



    "The awkward and frustrating thing at this point is that we're all grasping at straws," Hayes said."



    Pesticides, migrating of bees or even genetically modified crops. But cell phones?



    It's not that I disagree, but the topic is really not about just this one issue. I just linked to it to demonstrate what motivated me to post the thread about the possible risks of technology.
  • Reply 11 of 38
    @_@ artman@_@ artman Posts: 5,231member
    I think the Russians did it...







    Abandoned russian biochemical lab







    Seriously, we have to find out what is going on because this is becoming global. Theoretically, if the bee population is wiped out. We have about four years to live.



    Albert Einstein - "If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe, then man would only have four years left to live."
  • Reply 12 of 38
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post


    I think the Russians did it...







    Abandoned russian biochemical lab







    Seriously, we have to find out what is going on because this is becoming global. Theoretically, if the bee population is wiped out. We have about four years to live.



    Albert Einstein - "If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe, then man would only have four years left to live."



    But that would only get us to 2011, NOT 2012 when we all KNOW the world (as we know it) will cease to exist!



    But seriously, there is great irony is SDW's disbelief in the human caused environmental effects of climate change emissions, while seeming to believe the technological effects caused by low energy density EMF human emissions! While. in the first case there seems to be an ever increasing body of evidence to at least partly explain casualty, the second effect is, at this point, purely conjectural!
  • Reply 13 of 38
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,433member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by franksargent View Post


    But that would only get us to 2011, NOT 2012 when we all KNOW the world (as we know it) will cease to exist!



    But seriously, there is great irony is SDW's disbelief in the human caused environmental effects of climate change emissions, while seeming to believe the technological effects caused by low energy density EMF human emissions! While. in the first case there seems to be an ever increasing body of evidence to at least partly explain casualty, the second effect is, at this point, purely conjectural!



    Oh stop. I mean really, I was just waiting for someone to try that one. I don't believe anything. I'm asking a question. I'm curious and possibly concerned. Jesus.
  • Reply 14 of 38
    hardeeharharhardeeharhar Posts: 4,841member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post


    I think the Russians did it...









    Seriously, we have to find out what is going on because this is becoming global. Theoretically, if the bee population is wiped out. We have about four years to live.



    Albert Einstein - "If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe, then man would only have four years left to live."



    Not really...



    Crops are fertilized in laboratories now... Montsanto would make a killing if all the bees died but the world's food supply wouldn't collapse...
  • Reply 15 of 38
    @_@ artman@_@ artman Posts: 5,231member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post


    Not really...



    Crops are fertilized in laboratories now... Montsanto would make a killing if all the bees died but the world's food supply wouldn't collapse...



  • Reply 16 of 38
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,075member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post


    "If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe, then man would only have four years left to live."



    He missed the mark when he issued this quote - other insects can pollinate the same plants as honeybees do, and the niche gets quickly filled by them if bees go away.
  • Reply 17 of 38
    franksargentfranksargent Posts: 4,694member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post


    He missed the mark when he issued this quote - other insects can pollinate the same plants as honeybees do, and the niche gets quickly filled by them if bees go away.



    Can anyone find a factual-historical link to this quote? I can't find it, but blogs, bee keepers, and the MSM keep repeating it!
  • Reply 18 of 38
    iposteriposter Posts: 1,560member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post


    I think the Russians did it...



    Abandoned russian biochemical lab







    This is OT, but that site reminded me of an article in National Geographic back in the 1990's about all the abandoned/poorly guarded Soviet biochemical labs in Russia as well as former USSR/Bloc countries. The thing I remember most from the article was a picture of vials of live weaponized anthrax sitting on a shelf in a coffee can in an unguarded building.



    I know all that was several years ago, but people sit around worrying about Iran building their own nukes, when everything from tailored bio to backpacks nukes were practically free for the taking during the Soviet meltdown. Face it, if some group of terrorists really wanted WMD, they already have them, folks! \



    And those guys were really bright going into an abandoned hot lab with only medical masks on!



    (yeah, all the bad stuff was most likely gone, but you wouldn't catch me doing it!)



    IRT Topic,

    I'm not convinced on this cell phones/bees thing; what, are people standing around by bee hives using their phones? I know from personal experience that hard EM (high power microwave/Radar transmitters, X and Gamma rays, etc.) are certainly hazardous to your health, but the jury appears to be out on 'soft' EM. It's possible that it could effect living tissues, but when the impact of cell transmissions on brain tissue from only inches away is in debate, I don't see how it could be effecting bees on a wide scale basis.



    (law of inverse squares, double the distance from an EM source, you quarter the strength of the signal/dose rate)
  • Reply 19 of 38
    hardeeharharhardeeharhar Posts: 4,841member
    Bee Keepers are Soylent Green!!!
  • Reply 20 of 38
    mydomydo Posts: 1,888member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7460



    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/933678.stm



    There are other links as well (regarding power lines). I'm not saying it's proven, but there is some evidence to suggest it. I don't know about cell phones...the evidence is inconclusive, but it does seem to be building. Wholly dimissing it is rather stupid.



    No no no no no no NO NO! This is a "cased cloese" situation. Keeping these rumors alive is the stupid thing to do.
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