I believe the xMac we are talking about here falls into a prosumer line. It's offers the buyer more than a lowend computer but it is not the powerhouse of the Mac Pro. I agree that apple needs this type of computer in their lineup and here is why:
Excellent analysis of the problem, and your solution matches one I posted on page one of this thread, even the price range. So then, what can I say but "Right on."
1) Mini Tower: Fewer drives, about three slot plus graphics slot, two optical drives, and a pretty high performance CPU. If Apple offered this from $999 to $1999, it would please a large group of Mac complainers, and give potential switcher something that is familiar to them.
2) Big Mini - Small Desktop: Large enough to hold full size desktop HDD and optical drives, plus enough space and cooling to have a high performance CPU option. Such a model could sell for a little less than the current Mini on the low end, and sell for more on the high end. It might make a good, general purpose office computer too.
I like your ideas on what Apple could provide, and I think that each one of these are feasible. Personally, I would prefer a mix between the two. I think Apple can make a Mini Tower that is pretty small for a desktop, but can still be easily accesible for upgrades and high performance!
Great ideas though...now let's see it happen Steve.
i'd just love a machine that sat in between the mini and the macpro. i dont want the iMac as an all in one ( primarily for not liking the white ) plus i want to use a screen of my choice. the mini is too small for my storage needs, and i dont want external drives. the macpro is just too much at the other end.
but if i could get the specs of the iMac in a box mid-way between the mini and macpro, then i'd jump on it.
I don't know how many people know of this or use this, but Apple offers a feedback page where you can send them features you think should be in their products or ways to improve what they already have. I have used it several recently, but I don't know how quickly Apple acts on this seeing as it would go through so many people to get approved. HA ha, worth a try...
They really just need to allow the Mac Mini to be more upgradeable. A higher end mini takes care of most of the issues, if the video card and processor were changeable to higher end specs, then I think that would take care of more people. Card slots and additional drive bays I think would be unnecessary for the majority of people.
The iMac, although pricey, is exactly the kind of computer a family needs.
Agreed, unless the family already has a nice LCD monitor, as many of us do. I have a 22 inch, wide screen ViewSonic on my music workstation. There is no way would I get an iMac for it, though I suspect I'll want an Intel Mac there one of these days. When that day comes, current Mac Pros will be selling much cheaper on eBay. Sorry Apple; you don't have what I want.
One question on my mind is where is the average consumer going to put all that iTunes movie and tv show content?
Right now it doesnt seem to be that big of a deal, but with the apple TV and a shift from owning a DVD to owning the file...we are going to need either larger hard drives in smaller sizes or the ability to hold multiple hard drives without cluttering the desk with externals!
I, for one, have an iTunes music library of 48 GB, movie library of 71 GB, and TV Shows comprise 40GB. I have a PowerMac G4 quicksilver with 2 hard drive bays. I just ordered a 750 GB hard drive to accomodate for my growing music and movie collection and I think this powermac is a great computer!! Now, if apple could add some newer technology in a computer like the Powermac G4's (while changing the form factor to something slightly smaller) they would hit a great market.
I know I am a pretty heavy prosumer, but is that not what this future generation becoming. I skimmed an article in PC Mag about how the next generation are almost as computer savy as the people that make the computers...loose quote because i couldnt remember exactly!
And that just asks the questions about storage...what about graphics, cpu, and display?
The vibe I'm getting here is that 17 year old nerds seem to believe that buying iMacs will make them pariah among the League of Nerds, or that they don't have much cashflow and want to hook up to shitty hand-me-down monitors, presumably saving money from not having to pay for the iMac's display. Just mow lawns for a few more weeks, get the damn iMac, and quit moaning. The League of Nerds will not knock you down a rank for buying an iMac. I can promise this since I myself am I high-ranking nerd.
I, for one, have an iTunes music library of 48 GB, movie library of 71 GB, and TV Shows comprise 40GB. . . .
I know I am a pretty heavy prosumer, but is that not what this future generation becoming. I skimmed an article in PC Mag about how the next generation are almost as computer savy as the people that make the computers...
The word "prosumer" is one of my pet peeves, since everyone I've ever encountered who throws it around is anything but a pro. First off, everyone is a consumer: you, your grandma, google corporate. . . all consumers. Pros are people who use their computers to produce professional work for professional endeavors. Usually this means money. There are undoubtedly pros that operate fine on mac minis: I think mac minis are fine computers for many software authors. If you think that whatever it is you do requires a lot of computational power, screen resolution, or expansion, you might call yourself a power user.
Why the distinction? A power user today is not necessarily a power user tomorrow, but a pro today is a pro tomorrow. For example, if you have been in to video for the past 10 or even 20 years, you used to be a major power user. It used to take a custom Avid workstation to do anything meaningful, in pseudo real time, with a video project. Now, a bottom of the line mac with iMovie does a damn respectable job at it. Having 48G of music files and 71G of videos hardly makes you a power user, either. My old iMac G5 has a 500G disk.
As PCs (as in "personal computers") become so fast, there will inevitably become fewer and fewer power users. I do some pretty heavy shit -- mathematical simulations, 3D CAD, electronic circuit board design -- and I'm not even sure I'm power user anymore. A pro, yes, but probably not a power user.
Despite the fact that this "next generation" has been pervaded by tech products and information readiness to the point where anything other than "instant" is not acceptable, they are not necessarily power users. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that they are bigger basic-consumer than ever. Apple, google, etc come out with new toys and they eat this shit up. If anything, the future is right on Steve's old roadmap: the PC is becoming more and more of a digital hub for consumer gadgets than it is a tool for heavy computation.
The vibe I'm getting here is that 17 year old nerds seem to believe that buying iMacs will make them pariah among the League of Nerds, or that they don't have much cashflow and want to hook up to shitty hand-me-down monitors, presumably saving money from not having to pay for the iMac's display. Just mow lawns for a few more weeks, get the damn iMac, and quit moaning. The League of Nerds will not knock you down a rank for buying an iMac. I can promise this since I myself am I high-ranking nerd.
You are pretty good at ignoring several other reasons noted in this thread. Your post looks more like a strawman than anything else.
If you think that whatever it is you do requires a lot of computational power, screen resolution, or expansion, you might call yourself a power user.
Well said, a power user is a much better distinction. But the fact of the matter remains is when a consumer of any kind buys a mac mini and it does not provide what he needs and he is not a professional so he doesnt need a Mac Pro...there needs to be a middle line for such "power user."
iMacs do not cut it with lack of expandability and built in display...read previous post.
The word "prosumer" is one of my pet peeves, since everyone I've ever encountered who throws it around is anything but a pro. First off, everyone is a consumer: you, your grandma, google corporate. . . all consumers. Pros are people who use their computers to produce professional work for professional endeavors.
Sorry to bust your bubble, but the OS X Dictionary has this to say about "prosumer:"
Quote:
noun
1. an amateur who purchases equipment with quality or features suitable for professional use . . .
So the way "prosumer" is used in these threads is perfectly valid -- meaning an amateur who buys professional quality equipment. A prosumer may buy a Mac Pro for example, but a mini tower would be appealing because it offers many of these features and higher performance at a much lower cost.
A prosumer may be satisfied with less than cutting edge capability, whereas a professional may not.
The vibe I'm getting here is that 17 year old nerds seem to believe that buying iMacs will make them pariah among the League of Nerds, or that they don't have much cashflow and want to hook up to shitty hand-me-down monitors, presumably saving money from not having to pay for the iMac's display. Just mow lawns for a few more weeks, get the damn iMac, and quit moaning. The League of Nerds will not knock you down a rank for buying an iMac. I can promise this since I myself am I high-ranking nerd.
But really...whether it is a 17 year old that doesnt want the imac monitor or the 50 year old that has 2 23inchers, there is still a demand.
Apple clearly uses the marketing goal of product focus, in which they innovate and don't necessarily follow the wants or desires of a consumer. In this way, they can innovate rather than get stuck on pleasing people. However, what the focus of this thread seems to be is that Apple could easily do it and many people would buy it! You might not buy it, but there is a demand nonetheless.
Comments
I believe the xMac we are talking about here falls into a prosumer line. It's offers the buyer more than a lowend computer but it is not the powerhouse of the Mac Pro. I agree that apple needs this type of computer in their lineup and here is why:
Excellent analysis of the problem, and your solution matches one I posted on page one of this thread, even the price range. So then, what can I say but "Right on."
I think they should get rid of the iMac.
Whoa! Now that is thinking different, but I'd bet that Steve isn't willing to go that far.
1) Mini Tower: Fewer drives, about three slot plus graphics slot, two optical drives, and a pretty high performance CPU. If Apple offered this from $999 to $1999, it would please a large group of Mac complainers, and give potential switcher something that is familiar to them.
2) Big Mini - Small Desktop: Large enough to hold full size desktop HDD and optical drives, plus enough space and cooling to have a high performance CPU option. Such a model could sell for a little less than the current Mini on the low end, and sell for more on the high end. It might make a good, general purpose office computer too.
I like your ideas on what Apple could provide, and I think that each one of these are feasible. Personally, I would prefer a mix between the two. I think Apple can make a Mini Tower that is pretty small for a desktop, but can still be easily accesible for upgrades and high performance!
Great ideas though...now let's see it happen Steve.
but if i could get the specs of the iMac in a box mid-way between the mini and macpro, then i'd jump on it.
I think they should get rid of the iMac.
The iMac, although pricey, is exactly the kind of computer a family needs.
www.apple.com/feedback
Do it and see if anything changes...then you can tell your children in 15 years that you told apple they should make that!
The iMac, although pricey, is exactly the kind of computer a family needs.
I think the Mac Mini is the kind of computer a family needs.
No real reason for a new model.
The iMac, although pricey, is exactly the kind of computer a family needs.
Agreed, unless the family already has a nice LCD monitor, as many of us do. I have a 22 inch, wide screen ViewSonic on my music workstation. There is no way would I get an iMac for it, though I suspect I'll want an Intel Mac there one of these days. When that day comes, current Mac Pros will be selling much cheaper on eBay. Sorry Apple; you don't have what I want.
They really just need to allow the Mac Mini to be more upgradeable. . .
No real reason for a new model.
It's possible to upgrade the Mac Mini, but it is not the kind of thing the average person would be willing to tackle. Reasons for a new model:
1) Price. Using standard HDD and optical drive will lower cost of components.
2) More space for cooling to accommodate faster CPUs and GPUs.
3) Business is interested in a easily repairable computer.
4) Consumers want lower prices or better performance.
5) Increase sales and boost price of AAPL stock.
Right now it doesnt seem to be that big of a deal, but with the apple TV and a shift from owning a DVD to owning the file...we are going to need either larger hard drives in smaller sizes or the ability to hold multiple hard drives without cluttering the desk with externals!
I, for one, have an iTunes music library of 48 GB, movie library of 71 GB, and TV Shows comprise 40GB. I have a PowerMac G4 quicksilver with 2 hard drive bays. I just ordered a 750 GB hard drive to accomodate for my growing music and movie collection and I think this powermac is a great computer!! Now, if apple could add some newer technology in a computer like the Powermac G4's (while changing the form factor to something slightly smaller) they would hit a great market.
I know I am a pretty heavy prosumer, but is that not what this future generation becoming. I skimmed an article in PC Mag about how the next generation are almost as computer savy as the people that make the computers...loose quote because i couldnt remember exactly!
And that just asks the questions about storage...what about graphics, cpu, and display?
I, for one, have an iTunes music library of 48 GB, movie library of 71 GB, and TV Shows comprise 40GB. . . .
I know I am a pretty heavy prosumer, but is that not what this future generation becoming. I skimmed an article in PC Mag about how the next generation are almost as computer savy as the people that make the computers...
The word "prosumer" is one of my pet peeves, since everyone I've ever encountered who throws it around is anything but a pro. First off, everyone is a consumer: you, your grandma, google corporate. . . all consumers. Pros are people who use their computers to produce professional work for professional endeavors. Usually this means money. There are undoubtedly pros that operate fine on mac minis: I think mac minis are fine computers for many software authors. If you think that whatever it is you do requires a lot of computational power, screen resolution, or expansion, you might call yourself a power user.
Why the distinction? A power user today is not necessarily a power user tomorrow, but a pro today is a pro tomorrow. For example, if you have been in to video for the past 10 or even 20 years, you used to be a major power user. It used to take a custom Avid workstation to do anything meaningful, in pseudo real time, with a video project. Now, a bottom of the line mac with iMovie does a damn respectable job at it. Having 48G of music files and 71G of videos hardly makes you a power user, either. My old iMac G5 has a 500G disk.
As PCs (as in "personal computers") become so fast, there will inevitably become fewer and fewer power users. I do some pretty heavy shit -- mathematical simulations, 3D CAD, electronic circuit board design -- and I'm not even sure I'm power user anymore. A pro, yes, but probably not a power user.
Despite the fact that this "next generation" has been pervaded by tech products and information readiness to the point where anything other than "instant" is not acceptable, they are not necessarily power users. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that they are bigger basic-consumer than ever. Apple, google, etc come out with new toys and they eat this shit up. If anything, the future is right on Steve's old roadmap: the PC is becoming more and more of a digital hub for consumer gadgets than it is a tool for heavy computation.
The vibe I'm getting here is that 17 year old nerds seem to believe that buying iMacs will make them pariah among the League of Nerds, or that they don't have much cashflow and want to hook up to shitty hand-me-down monitors, presumably saving money from not having to pay for the iMac's display. Just mow lawns for a few more weeks, get the damn iMac, and quit moaning. The League of Nerds will not knock you down a rank for buying an iMac. I can promise this since I myself am I high-ranking nerd.
You are pretty good at ignoring several other reasons noted in this thread. Your post looks more like a strawman than anything else.
It's possible to upgrade the Mac Mini, but it is not the kind of thing the average person would be willing to tackle. Reasons for a new model:
1) Price. Using standard HDD and optical drive will lower cost of components.
2) More space for cooling to accommodate faster CPUs and GPUs.
3) Business is interested in a easily repairable computer.
4) Consumers want lower prices or better performance.
5) Increase sales and boost price of AAPL stock.
6) Desktop ram, cpus, and video cards cost less them laptop ones.
6) Desktop ram, cpus, and video cards cost less them laptop ones.
And in the case of the Mac Pros, regular desktop RAM is 2-3 times less.
If you think that whatever it is you do requires a lot of computational power, screen resolution, or expansion, you might call yourself a power user.
Well said, a power user is a much better distinction. But the fact of the matter remains is when a consumer of any kind buys a mac mini and it does not provide what he needs and he is not a professional so he doesnt need a Mac Pro...there needs to be a middle line for such "power user."
iMacs do not cut it with lack of expandability and built in display...read previous post.
The word "prosumer" is one of my pet peeves, since everyone I've ever encountered who throws it around is anything but a pro. First off, everyone is a consumer: you, your grandma, google corporate. . . all consumers. Pros are people who use their computers to produce professional work for professional endeavors.
Sorry to bust your bubble, but the OS X Dictionary has this to say about "prosumer:"
noun
1. an amateur who purchases equipment with quality or features suitable for professional use . . .
So the way "prosumer" is used in these threads is perfectly valid -- meaning an amateur who buys professional quality equipment. A prosumer may buy a Mac Pro for example, but a mini tower would be appealing because it offers many of these features and higher performance at a much lower cost.
A prosumer may be satisfied with less than cutting edge capability, whereas a professional may not.
The vibe I'm getting here is that 17 year old nerds seem to believe that buying iMacs will make them pariah among the League of Nerds, or that they don't have much cashflow and want to hook up to shitty hand-me-down monitors, presumably saving money from not having to pay for the iMac's display. Just mow lawns for a few more weeks, get the damn iMac, and quit moaning. The League of Nerds will not knock you down a rank for buying an iMac. I can promise this since I myself am I high-ranking nerd.
But really...whether it is a 17 year old that doesnt want the imac monitor or the 50 year old that has 2 23inchers, there is still a demand.
Apple clearly uses the marketing goal of product focus, in which they innovate and don't necessarily follow the wants or desires of a consumer. In this way, they can innovate rather than get stuck on pleasing people. However, what the focus of this thread seems to be is that Apple could easily do it and many people would buy it! You might not buy it, but there is a demand nonetheless.