Apple's Mac sales rock-steady despite Vista

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  • Reply 21 of 72
    physguyphysguy Posts: 919member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Louzer View Post


    No, not really. I do look at it and go "Gee, just imagine if apple sold a low-cost 15" laptop, or a low-cost mini-tower". But I'm just annoying that way.







    Just to make you go insane (and I'm sure it will launch the really stupid "Yeah, but if you upgrade it...." comparisons), but my boss yesterday just bought a Dell Dimension 9200, with a Core 2 Duo E4300 processor, 1GB RAM, lot's of room for expansion, all for $650. (If he went for the Dell E520, he could have gotten the same basic specs for $599). Apple can't even be bothered doing something like that, they have to go "Let's make a cheap mac, but we'll make it look really nice, because people care only about looks, so who cares if its not upgradable, has a laptop drive in it, and even to change the memory requires the use of tools usually left to those who break into homes".



    As an Apple shareholder all I can say is 'OMG I hope not' Just look at dell's business performance.
  • Reply 22 of 72
    ipeonipeon Posts: 1,122member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by physguy View Post


    As an Apple shareholder all I can say is 'OMG I hope not' Just look at dell's business performance.



    Admit it, Apple needs to plug that hole. Where's the consumer upgradable mini tower? Take that mini and do something with it. It's a nice little computer for mom and dad, but it's not designed for the typical PC user who is accustomed to upgradability. There's a huge market here that Apple isn't acknowledging.
  • Reply 23 of 72
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPeon View Post


    Admit it, Apple needs to plug that hole.



    That must be why their market share has grown by 30%.



    Oh wait.
  • Reply 24 of 72
    physguyphysguy Posts: 919member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPeon View Post


    Admit it, Apple needs to plug that hole. Where's the consumer upgradable mini tower? Take that mini and do something with it. It's a nice little computer for mom and dad, but it's not designed for the typical PC user who is accustomed to upgradability. There's a huge market here that Apple isn't acknowledging.



    Why? Doesn't seem to be a market that is currently profitable. As a shareholder I really don't care about market share numbers. They have enough market share to attract developers (the absolute numbers are more than enough for that). Dell is killing itself serving that market at the moment.
  • Reply 25 of 72
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by physguy View Post


    Why? Doesn't seem to be a market that is currently profitable. As a shareholder I really don't care about market share numbers. They have enough market share to attract developers (the absolute numbers are more than enough for that). Dell is killing itself serving that market at the moment.



    Tell that to PC makers like Velocity Micro and Polywell. Your confusing the entire high end prosumer market with the bargain basement makers.
  • Reply 26 of 72
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chucker View Post


    That must be why their market share has grown by 30%.



    Oh wait.



    It's why they still make up only 1 in every 20 computers.
  • Reply 27 of 72
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    It's why they still make up only 1 in every 20 computers.



    Successfully so.
  • Reply 28 of 72
    physguyphysguy Posts: 919member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    It's why they still make up only 1 in every 20 computers.





    And how many of those 20 do Velocity Micro and Polywell make??? This is the whole point. Why should apple do this. If they want to increase market share they will HAVE to complete with Dell, not Velocity Micro and Polywell. If they do that they don't make money. If they compete with Velocity Micro and Polywell the might make some tiny amount of money but they don't make market share. It's a lose-lose at this point.
  • Reply 29 of 72
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    For arguments sake:



    Dell vs Apple stock prices



    Dell down over 5 years. Apple up OVER 600%!!!



    yeah. Apple is killing itself not fighting in the commodity low-end market.
  • Reply 30 of 72
    ipeonipeon Posts: 1,122member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    For arguments sake:



    Dell vs Apple stock prices



    Dell down over 5 years. Apple up OVER 600%!!!



    yeah. Apple is killing itself not fighting in the commodity low-end market.



    I don't see the relevance, nor is anyone arguing that Apple is killing itself by not having a consumer tower. Nor is Apple's rate of growth proof that Apple doesn't need to add said product.



    The logical argument against it would be to say that there isn't a market for said product. I think there is. It's either "there is" or "there isn't", anything else is irrelevant.
  • Reply 31 of 72
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPeon View Post


    The logical argument against it would be to say that there isn't a market for said product. I think there is. It's either "there is" or "there isn't", anything else is irrelevant.



    There is a market for inline skates. Apple should make some.
  • Reply 32 of 72
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by physguy View Post


    And how many of those 20 do Velocity Micro and Polywell make??? This is the whole point. Why should apple do this. If they want to increase market share they will HAVE to complete with Dell, not Velocity Micro and Polywell. If they do that they don't make money. If they compete with Velocity Micro and Polywell the might make some tiny amount of money but they don't make market share. It's a lose-lose at this point.



    The boutique market makes up roughly a quarter of the market.
  • Reply 33 of 72
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,277member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Louzer View Post


    Sorry, call me ignorant ("You're ignorant!") but are we supposed to know what that picture is?







    Yeah, real impressive. You did notice that they only have 5% of the market, right? Compared to their previous share, sure, that's impressive. But its not really impressive to the 20+% of its competitors.



    5% of the market yet closing in on double the market cap of Dell (last time I checked Dell was at $52 billion, Apple $80 billion). Market share is the current straw man of the Apple bashing crowd. Of course by that logic cockroaches are superior to humans because there's more of 'em on the planet. A Ford Escort is better than a BMW Z5 for the same reason.
  • Reply 34 of 72
    physguyphysguy Posts: 919member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    The boutique market makes up roughly a quarter of the market.



    That really doesn't answer my question. If the boutique market is 25% (and I'm not say I don't believe you but I will admit I'm surprised. Is there a link I can look at?) how many vendors serve it. If its like other boutique markets its served by many many vendor each finding a quite small niche that they can serve uniquely. That's how they add enough value to make a profit. If that's the case then my argument still stands. If Apple had to create 10's of products/services to gain a significant market share it would be more like them building in-line skate (thanks Chucker) than their current product - i.e. a different market/service model.
  • Reply 35 of 72
    ipeonipeon Posts: 1,122member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chucker View Post


    There is a market for inline skates. Apple should make some.



    Fishing is a dull sport.
  • Reply 36 of 72
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPeon View Post


    I don't see the relevance.



    Well, there you go.
  • Reply 37 of 72
    ipeonipeon Posts: 1,122member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    Well, there you go.







    So you are saying that Apple shouldn't offer a consumer tower because Dell is losing money? Is Dell solely in the business of making consumer towers?
  • Reply 38 of 72
    physguyphysguy Posts: 919member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPeon View Post






    So you are saying that Apple shouldn't offer a consumer tower because Dell is losing money? Is Dell solely in the business of making consumer towers?



    No. I think what we're saying is that 'consumer towers' are not a very good market. Dell makes little money. Others need to find appropriate niches.
  • Reply 39 of 72
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Exactly. The low end consumer desktop market that Dell is playing heavily in is so bad that their high end servers and services packages can no longer keep them consistently above water financially. They make a ton on their high end stuff, and loose a ton and more in the commodity market. When you don't make lots of profit, you get punished in the market.
  • Reply 40 of 72
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Proof that marketshare doesn't mean profit:
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