What makes a notebook worse than an iMac for cables? If you had to use a desktop KB & mouse, OK, iMac can have the same. An external drive would be the same either way, though an iMac can have larger drives, so there may be less pressure to have an external drive. The only thing is that the iMac keeps the connectors to the back, and Apple's notebooks put connectors on the side. And I do think that is a valid concern.
Have these businesses ever called them laptops in their marketing?
Remember I was talking about all notebooks, not just the prety and light sub-notebook.
Apple currently puts ports btoh to the left and rigth of the machine. A lot of people are buying notebooks instead of desktops since power is very close and notebooks are very convenient.
However the mess of cables to the left and right of the notebook makes for a mess of cables on an otherwise pretty and elegant machine.
If the ports where in the back like they are in the iMac I would have less of an issue.
For as long as I remembers most notebook manufactures have made docking stations for notebooks, but Apple does not.
With a docking station you can leave all the cables connected to the back of the docking station and simply dock the machine to connect it to the rest of the devices like one or more monitors, usb and firewire drives, modem, ethernet connection, printer, etc.
Docking stations are very combinient and I would probably purchase 2 one for the house and one for the office.
A subnotebook can use one even more since it is smaller and there is less room for all the ports, Leave the drives connected to the dock, disconnect from the dock and run to the office with the nice and light subnotebook.
Just talking in general *** All notebooks can use a docking station ***
As to the term laptop, they been called laptops for a very long time. It is lately (last 2 or so years) that the machines been getting too hot to lay on yout lap that manufactorers have been calling them notebook instead.
I have bad eyes and need to wear glasses to use my current 15 inch powerbook.
A small subnotebook would not be in the cards for me unless it had a foldable (like in paper) screen that I could unfold to the size I need (15 to 20 inch), hehe.
But for you young fellas, I am sure would be great.
I dont mind the weigth and love the 15 inch screen.
Most of the weight in my bag is papers and other junk.
But I defer to Bergermeister, after watching TokyoDrift I am definitely in the Apple needs to come up with subnotebook to compete viably in the Japan portable computing space.
Watching TokyoDrift?! I don't think that you or Apple should consider that a reliable way to get an understanding of anything Japanese!
- nice car chases, and cute women, but apart from that a complete waste of time!
Oh man! Ive been praying for a sub 15" notebook that would replace the old 12" G4....All I ask is for the option of a graphic card upgrade and preferably optical audio I/O. (macbook 64mb non dedicated vram? whats with that?....people said it would never happen.
All other specs should be enough for my needs, the way things are now.
bring it on and Im there with cash in my pocket!!!!!
(a dock sounds good+who needs an intergrated optical drive theese days )
Forget it. These machines are even more limited as to upgrades such as video, then regular portables are. It's a matter of heat.
Besides, the lower the rez, the better the graphics chip will do.
Yes, I think they do. You have to have an ExpressCard slot in order to use it, but that type of slot only includes a x1 PCIe lane. I'm not optimistic that Apple would include that slot.
you want a docking station for an ultraportable? get a mini. there's your optical drive, video out, etc. [all via 802.11 n] heck, just use your existing tower if you have one.
i would hope for 10" WXGA screen, less than 2/3" thick form factor, 32/64gb ssd, 1 usb, 1 firewire. wifi[n], iSight and bluetooth at 2 pounds.
what else do you need in an ULTRAportable? this would be great for me, i hate to have to lift my 7 pound laptop off the coffee table just to surf the web. [life is so tough] :P
you want a docking station for an ultraportable? get a mini. there's your optical drive, video out, etc. [all via 802.11 n] heck, just use your existing tower if you have one.
I don't think that is a good solution to the problem. To make that work and keep the two systems coherent, one would need .Mac, which would be at least $300 for the useful life of the system ($99x3 yrs.), on top of the cost of buying or running a second system. Most docks that I've seen are less than $300 and don't require a second system at all.
I think the imaginary sub-notebook was replaced with the iPod. I don't see the average computer user clamoring for this kind of product... but obviously there's a heck of a lot of interest in a phone-sized computer.
Hear hear! I don't consider a notebook that doesn't have a docking station really very portable. I always want two screens, a mouse, a desktop keyboard, a network connection, and power when my notebook is sitting at my desk. If all those are plugged in individually, the notebook isn't easy to grab-n-go. That's one huge reason I like having a Dell laptop at work. (My home machine is still a G5, but the second Apple releases a notebook with a docking station it'll probably get upgraded to that.)
Wow, you still use cables for connecting things together!
Have you heard of Bluetooth and Wireless networking? Wireless USB perhaps? Ring any bells yet?
You're thinking like Dell and Microsoft when you say you want a single connection docking station.
You want a *zero* connection docking station.
You want a wireless protocol that allows you to drive a remote monitor with no cables! Theoretically probably UWB since 802.11n isn't quite fast enough, especially in a room full of such computers.
Secondly, you want proximity charging (aka inductive coupling) of your laptop so that you don't have to plug that dang thing in to power either.
Ideally, you don't even have to open it. Just set it on the desk, have it notice that it's near power and start charging; have it notice that it's near your wireless keyboard, mouse, and monitor, and automatically associate with them and let you know that it's ready and waiting.
Preferably with some automatic data synchronization so that my central data store is maintained mostly in sync with my portable datastore if I happened to have been briefly disconnected. Using a ZFS-based file system that can essentially journal block-by-block based changes via a greatly enhanced Time Machine to a .mac or Google based datastore means that your data is ubiquitously available and automatically backed up.
At least that's what I want out of a ultraportable and a "docking station".
reinharden
PS: Wireless charging isn't as far-fetched as you might think. When we were working on the early 802.11 products, we had quite a few problems with some factories that were attempting to deploy them. Turned out that they had extensive arrays of microwave powered fluorescent lights...also camped at 2.4 GHz. Needless to say that was not an optimum environment for 802.11b. ;-)
PPS: We don't recommend putting fluorescent bulbs in your microwave oven; however, if you have one that you don't want anymore, it will probably work. Of course, since a standard microwave putts out 500+ Watts of power and a normal fluorescent bulb might draw 20 Watts, it probably won't work very long. ;-)
the term "ultra portable" is pretty vague. i agree that the iPhone is essentially an ultra portable computer [there, it's not a smart phone]
Still, i think most people need something with a decent size screen and keyboard to do any real work. the iPhone keyboard should be great for texting and writing an quick email, but i can't imaging trying to type any large amount of text [a research paper for example] with a touchscreen keyboard, no matter how large the touchscreen is. you can't touch-type without any tactile feedback.
and yeah the mac mini might be bad as a docking station, but i do agree that there should be no need to physically "dock" your computer to connect to any periphs.
reinharden, as long as this new wireless docking ehphoria you're talking about has a 5-1/4 floppy i'm happy. [ohh, and i'd rather have a power cord than have testicular cancer from microwave charging of my laptop while it's on my lap.]
the term "ultra portable" is pretty vague. i agree that the iPhone is essentially an ultra portable computer [there, it's not a smart phone]
All previous uses of "ultraportable" I have seen have been small notebooks weighing 2 to 4lb in imperialist units, and iPhone doesn't fit. iPhone is probably a useful device, but other than very minor quibbles, it's a smart phone. In some respects, it may be a WebTV of smart phones, I don't see anything that removes it from that device category.
Quote:
and yeah the mac mini might be bad as a docking station, but i do agree that there should be no need to physically "dock" your computer to connect to any periphs.
reinharden, as long as this new wireless docking ehphoria you're talking about has a 5-1/4 floppy i'm happy. [ohh, and i'd rather have a power cord than have testicular cancer from microwave charging of my laptop while it's on my lap.]
It's non-ionizing radiation, and with the power levels being discussed haven't been found to cause cancer in anything other than statements of FUD.
I'm not fond of wireless everything, even on a Mac, setting up and connecting wireless stuff is more tinkering than I think should be necessary. Other than for WiFi for mobile or light networking use, the speed reduction and power inefficiency of wireless isn't worth a few less cables.
Personally I'm of the opinion that Apple is paying/convincing analysts to talk up the potential of an ultra-portable to build up interest for a product to be released late 2008-early 2009.
Why else would the analysts follow up bullshit speculation with a CYA maneuver? They would just let the story die till convenient to bring it back up otherwise.
Apple knows what their suppliers can and can't produce. This NAND situation did not come as a surprise to them.
[ohh, and i'd rather have a power cord than have testicular cancer from microwave charging of my laptop while it's on my lap.]
Do they teach science in school anymore? Even if the EM radiation was of a harmful variety, your laptop would be a receiver while charging, not a transmitter. That means you should be more concerned about the charging station, not where the laptop is. Besides, microwave radiation of that low intensity isn't going to penetrate far into the body. You're better off worrying about being constantly bathed in the radiation from cell phones, cell towers, WiFi hotspots, TV transmitters, etc. Not that there's any documented harm in those, either, but it just shows how silly your concern is.
Apple's Japan sales are gonna continue to tank if they keep delaying an ultraportable.
Nobody here wants to drag around a 5 lb MacBrick, err... MacBook, on the train to work 300 days per year when there are plenty of light, powerful Windoze laptops available.
It's pathetic to think Apple can't address the needs of the 2nd biggest consumer market in the world. And it's even worse to think that an overemphasis on the iPhone (which won't get to Japan for a few years) may be contributing to this.
Now you know the downside of allowing egomaniacs to run major corporations.
Apple's Japan sales are gonna continue to tank if they keep delaying an ultraportable.
Nobody here wants to drag around a 5 lb MacBrick, err... MacBook, on the train to work 300 days per year when there are plenty of light, powerful Windoze laptops available.
It's pathetic to think Apple can't address the needs of the 2nd biggest consumer market in the world. And it's even worse to think that an overemphasis on the iPhone (which won't get to Japan for a few years) may be contributing to this.
Now you know the downside of allowing egomaniacs to run major corporations.
Tunnel Vision.
It may be tunnel vision, but it revitalized a dieing company. Apple is where it is because they discarded everything that wasn't necessary and started from scratch. They went from way too many products to a few, well-designed products. They focused their marketing. Sales increased, perception increased, etc.
Apple is branching out SLOWLY. The iPod? Excellent success. The iTunes Store? Great. The iPhone? Probably a winner. iTV? Gaining popularity. When you think about how long some of these things have taken to be released, it can be frustrating. But I'd rather have a company expand slowly and do it well then expand too quickly and overextend themselves. You know, kind of like Microsoft, who wants a piece of everything, even though in the end they really only make money off of their core OS/Office business.
There are plenty of things that I wish Apple did different. I want a subnotebook. I know plenty of people that want one too. I also want a mini tower, since the Mac Pro is too much for what I need, the mini doesn't cover it, and I don't want an all-in-one like the iMac. Maybe I'll get what I want someday. It looks more and more possible that an ultraportable will happen, which makes me happy. But I'll also understand why Apple operates the way that it does. They simply have more to lose.
Also, with whoever said it earlier, YES! Apple needs to release a 17" widescreen display. Absolutely! I would buy it in a heartbeat.
Apple's patent applications a while ago revealed plans for a different kind of optical drive that will take less space than the slot in. Let's see what happens with that. I generally don't like docks, because of their un portable nature. I'd go for a new universal port that branches out into several ports with an external multi connection adapter.
Comments
What makes a notebook worse than an iMac for cables? If you had to use a desktop KB & mouse, OK, iMac can have the same. An external drive would be the same either way, though an iMac can have larger drives, so there may be less pressure to have an external drive. The only thing is that the iMac keeps the connectors to the back, and Apple's notebooks put connectors on the side. And I do think that is a valid concern.
Have these businesses ever called them laptops in their marketing?
Remember I was talking about all notebooks, not just the prety and light sub-notebook.
Apple currently puts ports btoh to the left and rigth of the machine. A lot of people are buying notebooks instead of desktops since power is very close and notebooks are very convenient.
However the mess of cables to the left and right of the notebook makes for a mess of cables on an otherwise pretty and elegant machine.
If the ports where in the back like they are in the iMac I would have less of an issue.
For as long as I remembers most notebook manufactures have made docking stations for notebooks, but Apple does not.
With a docking station you can leave all the cables connected to the back of the docking station and simply dock the machine to connect it to the rest of the devices like one or more monitors, usb and firewire drives, modem, ethernet connection, printer, etc.
Docking stations are very combinient and I would probably purchase 2 one for the house and one for the office.
A subnotebook can use one even more since it is smaller and there is less room for all the ports, Leave the drives connected to the dock, disconnect from the dock and run to the office with the nice and light subnotebook.
Just talking in general *** All notebooks can use a docking station ***
As to the term laptop, they been called laptops for a very long time. It is lately (last 2 or so years) that the machines been getting too hot to lay on yout lap that manufactorers have been calling them notebook instead.
Many of us old timers still call them laptops.
A small subnotebook would not be in the cards for me unless it had a foldable (like in paper) screen that I could unfold to the size I need (15 to 20 inch), hehe.
But for you young fellas, I am sure would be great.
I dont mind the weigth and love the 15 inch screen.
Most of the weight in my bag is papers and other junk.
But I defer to Bergermeister, after watching TokyoDrift I am definitely in the Apple needs to come up with subnotebook to compete viably in the Japan portable computing space.
Watching TokyoDrift?! I don't think that you or Apple should consider that a reliable way to get an understanding of anything Japanese!
- nice car chases, and cute women, but apart from that a complete waste of time!
Oh man! Ive been praying for a sub 15" notebook that would replace the old 12" G4....All I ask is for the option of a graphic card upgrade and preferably optical audio I/O. (macbook 64mb non dedicated vram? whats with that?....people said it would never happen.
All other specs should be enough for my needs, the way things are now.
bring it on and Im there with cash in my pocket!!!!!
(a dock sounds good+who needs an intergrated optical drive theese days
Forget it. These machines are even more limited as to upgrades such as video, then regular portables are. It's a matter of heat.
Besides, the lower the rez, the better the graphics chip will do.
Yes, I think they do. You have to have an ExpressCard slot in order to use it, but that type of slot only includes a x1 PCIe lane. I'm not optimistic that Apple would include that slot.
I don't see how that would happen.
i would hope for 10" WXGA screen, less than 2/3" thick form factor, 32/64gb ssd, 1 usb, 1 firewire. wifi[n], iSight and bluetooth at 2 pounds.
what else do you need in an ULTRAportable? this would be great for me, i hate to have to lift my 7 pound laptop off the coffee table just to surf the web. [life is so tough] :P
you want a docking station for an ultraportable? get a mini. there's your optical drive, video out, etc. [all via 802.11 n] heck, just use your existing tower if you have one.
I don't think that is a good solution to the problem. To make that work and keep the two systems coherent, one would need .Mac, which would be at least $300 for the useful life of the system ($99x3 yrs.), on top of the cost of buying or running a second system. Most docks that I've seen are less than $300 and don't require a second system at all.
Hear hear! I don't consider a notebook that doesn't have a docking station really very portable. I always want two screens, a mouse, a desktop keyboard, a network connection, and power when my notebook is sitting at my desk. If all those are plugged in individually, the notebook isn't easy to grab-n-go. That's one huge reason I like having a Dell laptop at work. (My home machine is still a G5, but the second Apple releases a notebook with a docking station it'll probably get upgraded to that.)
Wow, you still use cables for connecting things together!
Have you heard of Bluetooth and Wireless networking? Wireless USB perhaps? Ring any bells yet?
You want a *zero* connection docking station.
You want a wireless protocol that allows you to drive a remote monitor with no cables! Theoretically probably UWB since 802.11n isn't quite fast enough, especially in a room full of such computers.
Secondly, you want proximity charging (aka inductive coupling) of your laptop so that you don't have to plug that dang thing in to power either.
Ideally, you don't even have to open it. Just set it on the desk, have it notice that it's near power and start charging; have it notice that it's near your wireless keyboard, mouse, and monitor, and automatically associate with them and let you know that it's ready and waiting.
Preferably with some automatic data synchronization so that my central data store is maintained mostly in sync with my portable datastore if I happened to have been briefly disconnected. Using a ZFS-based file system that can essentially journal block-by-block based changes via a greatly enhanced Time Machine to a .mac or Google based datastore means that your data is ubiquitously available and automatically backed up.
At least that's what I want out of a ultraportable and a "docking station".
reinharden
PS: Wireless charging isn't as far-fetched as you might think. When we were working on the early 802.11 products, we had quite a few problems with some factories that were attempting to deploy them. Turned out that they had extensive arrays of microwave powered fluorescent lights...also camped at 2.4 GHz. Needless to say that was not an optimum environment for 802.11b. ;-)
PPS: We don't recommend putting fluorescent bulbs in your microwave oven; however, if you have one that you don't want anymore, it will probably work. Of course, since a standard microwave putts out 500+ Watts of power and a normal fluorescent bulb might draw 20 Watts, it probably won't work very long. ;-)
I think the imaginary sub-notebook was replaced with the iPod.
Subnotebooks aren't imaginary. They exist. I don't see how an iPod can do a fraction of what a subnotebook is expected to do.
Subnotebooks aren't imaginary. They exist. I don't see how an iPod can do a fraction of what a subnotebook is expected to do.
It can do a fraction. Not a very useful fraction.
A question is whether the iPhone platform can, and will, serve as a base for future products that aren't phone-like so much, but computer-like.
The UMPC from MS would be an example of what I mean, but hopefully better.
Still, i think most people need something with a decent size screen and keyboard to do any real work. the iPhone keyboard should be great for texting and writing an quick email, but i can't imaging trying to type any large amount of text [a research paper for example] with a touchscreen keyboard, no matter how large the touchscreen is. you can't touch-type without any tactile feedback.
and yeah the mac mini might be bad as a docking station, but i do agree that there should be no need to physically "dock" your computer to connect to any periphs.
reinharden, as long as this new wireless docking ehphoria you're talking about has a 5-1/4 floppy i'm happy. [ohh, and i'd rather have a power cord than have testicular cancer from microwave charging of my laptop while it's on my lap.]
the term "ultra portable" is pretty vague. i agree that the iPhone is essentially an ultra portable computer [there, it's not a smart phone]
All previous uses of "ultraportable" I have seen have been small notebooks weighing 2 to 4lb in imperialist units, and iPhone doesn't fit. iPhone is probably a useful device, but other than very minor quibbles, it's a smart phone. In some respects, it may be a WebTV of smart phones, I don't see anything that removes it from that device category.
and yeah the mac mini might be bad as a docking station, but i do agree that there should be no need to physically "dock" your computer to connect to any periphs.
reinharden, as long as this new wireless docking ehphoria you're talking about has a 5-1/4 floppy i'm happy. [ohh, and i'd rather have a power cord than have testicular cancer from microwave charging of my laptop while it's on my lap.]
It's non-ionizing radiation, and with the power levels being discussed haven't been found to cause cancer in anything other than statements of FUD.
I'm not fond of wireless everything, even on a Mac, setting up and connecting wireless stuff is more tinkering than I think should be necessary. Other than for WiFi for mobile or light networking use, the speed reduction and power inefficiency of wireless isn't worth a few less cables.
Why else would the analysts follow up bullshit speculation with a CYA maneuver? They would just let the story die till convenient to bring it back up otherwise.
Apple knows what their suppliers can and can't produce. This NAND situation did not come as a surprise to them.
[ohh, and i'd rather have a power cord than have testicular cancer from microwave charging of my laptop while it's on my lap.]
Do they teach science in school anymore? Even if the EM radiation was of a harmful variety, your laptop would be a receiver while charging, not a transmitter. That means you should be more concerned about the charging station, not where the laptop is. Besides, microwave radiation of that low intensity isn't going to penetrate far into the body. You're better off worrying about being constantly bathed in the radiation from cell phones, cell towers, WiFi hotspots, TV transmitters, etc. Not that there's any documented harm in those, either, but it just shows how silly your concern is.
Nobody here wants to drag around a 5 lb MacBrick, err... MacBook, on the train to work 300 days per year when there are plenty of light, powerful Windoze laptops available.
It's pathetic to think Apple can't address the needs of the 2nd biggest consumer market in the world. And it's even worse to think that an overemphasis on the iPhone (which won't get to Japan for a few years) may be contributing to this.
Now you know the downside of allowing egomaniacs to run major corporations.
Tunnel Vision.
Apple's Japan sales are gonna continue to tank if they keep delaying an ultraportable.
Nobody here wants to drag around a 5 lb MacBrick, err... MacBook, on the train to work 300 days per year when there are plenty of light, powerful Windoze laptops available.
It's pathetic to think Apple can't address the needs of the 2nd biggest consumer market in the world. And it's even worse to think that an overemphasis on the iPhone (which won't get to Japan for a few years) may be contributing to this.
Now you know the downside of allowing egomaniacs to run major corporations.
Tunnel Vision.
It may be tunnel vision, but it revitalized a dieing company. Apple is where it is because they discarded everything that wasn't necessary and started from scratch. They went from way too many products to a few, well-designed products. They focused their marketing. Sales increased, perception increased, etc.
Apple is branching out SLOWLY. The iPod? Excellent success. The iTunes Store? Great. The iPhone? Probably a winner. iTV? Gaining popularity. When you think about how long some of these things have taken to be released, it can be frustrating. But I'd rather have a company expand slowly and do it well then expand too quickly and overextend themselves. You know, kind of like Microsoft, who wants a piece of everything, even though in the end they really only make money off of their core OS/Office business.
There are plenty of things that I wish Apple did different. I want a subnotebook. I know plenty of people that want one too. I also want a mini tower, since the Mac Pro is too much for what I need, the mini doesn't cover it, and I don't want an all-in-one like the iMac. Maybe I'll get what I want someday. It looks more and more possible that an ultraportable will happen, which makes me happy. But I'll also understand why Apple operates the way that it does. They simply have more to lose.
Also, with whoever said it earlier, YES! Apple needs to release a 17" widescreen display. Absolutely! I would buy it in a heartbeat.