Well, that's my point, isn't it? Apple is adding 3D cues here and there (Time Machine, Cover Flow, the Dock floor) but there's no consistency to it at all.
Time Machine thinks we have infinite 3D space, CoverFlow figures an icons width worth, and the Dock believes it to be a few inches.
Stacks, on the other hand, still likes 2D space, as does Quick Look and pretty much every other element of UI. If the desktop has depth, wouldn't it make sense to let Stacks to do a "cover flow" sort of deal?
Sorry, I can't brush off the introduction of 3D space as a functioning part of the UI as a trivial change. We need to know what the metaphor is and it needs to be consistently applied.
Actually, YOU need to know what the metaphor is. I'm perfectly content with it as is. You know when people say, "Don't read too much into it."? This is one of those moments. Most of us don't care about any sort of metaphor. In my opinion, if it looks cool and doesn't decrease functionality then bring it on.
Actually, YOU need to know what the metaphor is. I'm perfectly content with it as is. You know when people say, "Don't read too much into it."? This is one of those moments. Most of us don't care about any sort of metaphor. In my opinion, if it looks cool and doesn't decrease functionality then bring it on.
You've misunderstood the whole point. It's not a question of actively pondering on the desktop metaphor every time you use the computer; it is the fact that having a consistent metaphor that your mind understands subconsciously goes a long way towards improving the intuitiveness of the interface and the sense of ease of use and consistency. It also makes it easier for developers of the OS to make sure that new items fit into the paradigm consistently.
Sigh. When people on an Apple Macintosh enthusiast site are saying things like "Most of us don't care about any kind of metaphor" it's really kinda depressing.
We got a lot when we got OS X, but we lost something too. I literally can't imagine such a willfully ignorant remark on a Mac board, pre-OS X.
The dock isn't really needed in my opinion. I've always hated the way it never fit to the screen edges (unless it was filled) which meant that space was wasted. Of course, there are people who say turn on hiding but then you have to physically move the mouse cursor over to the screen edge and wait for it to pop up. I don't want to have to do this extra work, If there is something in the dock that I need to see, I just want to be able to glance at it (like I do with items in the menubar).
The dock should have been designed so that it fits all the way to the screen edges. Then, Apple should have dedicated about 25% of it for system info apps, stock tickers, an analog clock (that is easy to see) and other useful stuff that I have put in my menubar.
Apple should have also made it so that if you double-clicked on an icon of an opened app in the dock, it brings that app to the front AND hides all other open apps.
The dock should also display the open apps in a way that is much easier to see vs looking for tiny LED lights. I wish I was in charge of the OS X interface team...
Yeah, forget the Dock. I'm sticking with XMenu.
For me XMenu is the best since OSX trashed all notions of an easy, stable Finder that had worked consistently up until late OS9.
For me XMenu is the best since OSX trashed all notions of an easy, stable Finder that had worked consistently up until late OS9.
speaking of docks, i just looked at the Apple preview of the dock again and noticed that it appears designed to give folders and minimized application windows more central space, instead of placing them in the 'trash zone'... right now the dock is primarily an application launcher . interestingly Jobs commented that Stacks could be used as an application launcher with the creation of an application stack... it sorta made me think of the Start menu in Windows!? in fact the whole dock is shaping up to be very much like the Windows Taskbar... albeit a hundred times more glitzy (which makes me think it might be a way of distracting attention from the similarity).
speaking of Stacks, let's face it, Stacks aren't just useful, they're totally necessary in order to keep the desktop clear... if that's actually a desktop anymore. and where's the Macintosh HD?
Wait, there is no Macintosh HD? I completely missed that! So finder is really just another "ordinary" application now? That means that the desktop itself is now not really anything more than a pretty picture with no contribution to the actual UI?
For me XMenu is the best since OSX trashed all notions of an easy, stable Finder that had worked consistently up until late OS9.
If you are using a program like XMenu still, that suggests you are a bit resistent to change. No offense intended but I bet I can launch any program quite a bit faster with Spotlight than it takes to drill down a menu to find that program. Quicksilver would be even faster but I'm happy with Spotlight for now.
Wait, there is no Macintosh HD? I completely missed that! So finder is really just another "ordinary" application now? That means that the desktop itself is now not really anything more than a pretty picture with no contribution to the actual UI?
Macintosh HD is found on the Finder. it doesn't appear to be defaulted to the Desktop now... and yes this is my point, the desktop seems to be intended to appear as open space. explains the use of the grassy image, since in this new desktop free paradigm no desktop icon elements are going to be lost or obstructed in the details of the background image.
The transparent menu bar seems to me like an attempt to introduce transparency into Leopard because Vista has a translucent toolbar in Aero. However, the Vista translucent toolbar is more attractive to me and the translucency doesn't reduce the usability of the toolbar. Leopard's transparent menu bar however looks like a cheapish hack to me and makes the menu harder to read. I like some of the other new features in Leopard (e.g., I'm very happy with the unified window UI), but that menu just smacks of a last-minute throw-in that wasn't very well thought out.
Did anyone else notice the lack of a loading bar launching Leopard. I wish they'd keep the aqua loading bar with text saying what it's doing than the spinning dotted line with no feedback. It just goes straight from that into OS X. Again, it could be the beta but I hope the bar isn't gone.
Did anyone else notice the lack of a loading bar launching Leopard. I wish they'd keep the aqua loading bar with text saying what it's doing than the spinning dotted line with no feedback. It just goes straight from that into OS X. Again, it could be the beta but I hope the bar isn't gone.
Can't hunt up a link right now, but you might be interested to know that the progress bar on start-up is just an animation with no relationship to any actual file activity.
You can invoke it from the terminal and watch it merrily move along. I think I remember seeing an Apple software guy's explanation that people just wanted something to look at, something that implied "things are progressing", and it didn't really matter if it meant anything or not.
EDIT: OK, I can hunt up a link. Here's John Gruber's rundown. (Scroll down to WaitingForLoginWindow)
Can't hunt up a link right now, but you might be interested to know that the progress bar on start-up is just an animation with no relationship to any actual file activity.
I didn't know that but I had kind of suspected it because especially in 10.4, the loading bar can just disappear before it's finished.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
The terminal command to invoke the animation is
/usr/libexec/WaitingForLoginWindow
Fun!
Now that is a cool command. Thanks for posting that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
I think I remember seeing an Apple software guy's explanation that people just wanted something to look at, something that implied "things are progressing", and it didn't really matter if it meant anything or not.
Exactly and that's why I'd hate to see it go. I think that spinning line with the grey apple looks horrible compared to the flashy loading bar. If anything, I'd have thought they'd just use the loading bar. I mean surely if it knows how many commands it has to execute at startup then it can divide the progress that way and subdivide it the more it finds. People like to see progress happening to give an indication that something hasn't just hung up.
What would be really neat is if the loading bar just transformed into the login window if it was enabled instead of fading out.
I didn't know that but I had kind of suspected it because especially in 10.4, the loading bar can just disappear before it's finished.
Now that is a cool command. Thanks for posting that.
Exactly and that's why I'd hate to see it go. I think that spinning line with the grey apple looks horrible compared to the flashy loading bar. If anything, I'd have thought they'd just use the loading bar. I mean surely if it knows how many commands it has to execute at startup then it can divide the progress that way and subdivide it the more it finds. People like to see progress happening to give an indication that something hasn't just hung up.
What would be really neat is if the loading bar just transformed into the login window if it was enabled instead of fading out.
I know, since it was included as a psychological prop in the first place I can't see the reason for dropping it-- now people are going to stare at that progress spinner thing and wonder if things are going smoothly or if they might just be staring at the spinner for the next 20 minutes.
A load bar to log-in window morph would be awesome.
If you are using a program like XMenu still, that suggests you are a bit resistent to change. No offense intended but I bet I can launch any program quite a bit faster with Spotlight than it takes to drill down a menu to find that program. Quicksilver would be even faster but I'm happy with Spotlight for now.
Change for the sake of change is pointless, and you're launching apps with Spotlight? That's positively retrograde... my Spotlight takes additional seconds (spinning beachball of death) while waiting for my external drive to spin up before it brings up any results. That's unacceptably slow performance. XMenu is twice as fast. Quicksilver is OK, but wholly dependent on your typing ability or ability to remember whatever obscure app name you are trying to locate. That leaves the Dock and XMenu.
Comments
Well, that's my point, isn't it? Apple is adding 3D cues here and there (Time Machine, Cover Flow, the Dock floor) but there's no consistency to it at all.
Time Machine thinks we have infinite 3D space, CoverFlow figures an icons width worth, and the Dock believes it to be a few inches.
Stacks, on the other hand, still likes 2D space, as does Quick Look and pretty much every other element of UI. If the desktop has depth, wouldn't it make sense to let Stacks to do a "cover flow" sort of deal?
Sorry, I can't brush off the introduction of 3D space as a functioning part of the UI as a trivial change. We need to know what the metaphor is and it needs to be consistently applied.
Actually, YOU need to know what the metaphor is. I'm perfectly content with it as is. You know when people say, "Don't read too much into it."? This is one of those moments. Most of us don't care about any sort of metaphor. In my opinion, if it looks cool and doesn't decrease functionality then bring it on.
Actually, YOU need to know what the metaphor is. I'm perfectly content with it as is. You know when people say, "Don't read too much into it."? This is one of those moments. Most of us don't care about any sort of metaphor. In my opinion, if it looks cool and doesn't decrease functionality then bring it on.
You've misunderstood the whole point. It's not a question of actively pondering on the desktop metaphor every time you use the computer; it is the fact that having a consistent metaphor that your mind understands subconsciously goes a long way towards improving the intuitiveness of the interface and the sense of ease of use and consistency. It also makes it easier for developers of the OS to make sure that new items fit into the paradigm consistently.
We got a lot when we got OS X, but we lost something too. I literally can't imagine such a willfully ignorant remark on a Mac board, pre-OS X.
The dock isn't really needed in my opinion. I've always hated the way it never fit to the screen edges (unless it was filled) which meant that space was wasted. Of course, there are people who say turn on hiding but then you have to physically move the mouse cursor over to the screen edge and wait for it to pop up. I don't want to have to do this extra work, If there is something in the dock that I need to see, I just want to be able to glance at it (like I do with items in the menubar).
The dock should have been designed so that it fits all the way to the screen edges. Then, Apple should have dedicated about 25% of it for system info apps, stock tickers, an analog clock (that is easy to see) and other useful stuff that I have put in my menubar.
Apple should have also made it so that if you double-clicked on an icon of an opened app in the dock, it brings that app to the front AND hides all other open apps.
The dock should also display the open apps in a way that is much easier to see vs looking for tiny LED lights. I wish I was in charge of the OS X interface team...
Yeah, forget the Dock. I'm sticking with XMenu.
For me XMenu is the best since OSX trashed all notions of an easy, stable Finder that had worked consistently up until late OS9.
Yeah, forget the Dock. I'm sticking with XMenu.
For me XMenu is the best since OSX trashed all notions of an easy, stable Finder that had worked consistently up until late OS9.
speaking of docks, i just looked at the Apple preview of the dock again and noticed that it appears designed to give folders and minimized application windows more central space, instead of placing them in the 'trash zone'... right now the dock is primarily an application launcher . interestingly Jobs commented that Stacks could be used as an application launcher with the creation of an application stack... it sorta made me think of the Start menu in Windows!? in fact the whole dock is shaping up to be very much like the Windows Taskbar... albeit a hundred times more glitzy (which makes me think it might be a way of distracting attention from the similarity).
speaking of Stacks, let's face it, Stacks aren't just useful, they're totally necessary in order to keep the desktop clear... if that's actually a desktop anymore. and where's the Macintosh HD?
yip the Dock IS the new desktop...
Yeah, forget the Dock. I'm sticking with XMenu.
For me XMenu is the best since OSX trashed all notions of an easy, stable Finder that had worked consistently up until late OS9.
If you are using a program like XMenu still, that suggests you are a bit resistent to change. No offense intended but I bet I can launch any program quite a bit faster with Spotlight than it takes to drill down a menu to find that program. Quicksilver would be even faster but I'm happy with Spotlight for now.
Wait, there is no Macintosh HD? I completely missed that! So finder is really just another "ordinary" application now? That means that the desktop itself is now not really anything more than a pretty picture with no contribution to the actual UI?
Macintosh HD is found on the Finder. it doesn't appear to be defaulted to the Desktop now... and yes this is my point, the desktop seems to be intended to appear as open space. explains the use of the grassy image, since in this new desktop free paradigm no desktop icon elements are going to be lost or obstructed in the details of the background image.
Did anyone else notice the lack of a loading bar launching Leopard. I wish they'd keep the aqua loading bar with text saying what it's doing than the spinning dotted line with no feedback. It just goes straight from that into OS X. Again, it could be the beta but I hope the bar isn't gone.
Can't hunt up a link right now, but you might be interested to know that the progress bar on start-up is just an animation with no relationship to any actual file activity.
You can invoke it from the terminal and watch it merrily move along. I think I remember seeing an Apple software guy's explanation that people just wanted something to look at, something that implied "things are progressing", and it didn't really matter if it meant anything or not.
EDIT: OK, I can hunt up a link. Here's John Gruber's rundown. (Scroll down to WaitingForLoginWindow)
The terminal command to invoke the animation is
/usr/libexec/WaitingForLoginWindow
Fun!
Can't hunt up a link right now, but you might be interested to know that the progress bar on start-up is just an animation with no relationship to any actual file activity.
I didn't know that but I had kind of suspected it because especially in 10.4, the loading bar can just disappear before it's finished.
The terminal command to invoke the animation is
/usr/libexec/WaitingForLoginWindow
Fun!
Now that is a cool command. Thanks for posting that.
I think I remember seeing an Apple software guy's explanation that people just wanted something to look at, something that implied "things are progressing", and it didn't really matter if it meant anything or not.
Exactly and that's why I'd hate to see it go. I think that spinning line with the grey apple looks horrible compared to the flashy loading bar. If anything, I'd have thought they'd just use the loading bar. I mean surely if it knows how many commands it has to execute at startup then it can divide the progress that way and subdivide it the more it finds. People like to see progress happening to give an indication that something hasn't just hung up.
What would be really neat is if the loading bar just transformed into the login window if it was enabled instead of fading out.
I didn't know that but I had kind of suspected it because especially in 10.4, the loading bar can just disappear before it's finished.
Now that is a cool command. Thanks for posting that.
Exactly and that's why I'd hate to see it go. I think that spinning line with the grey apple looks horrible compared to the flashy loading bar. If anything, I'd have thought they'd just use the loading bar. I mean surely if it knows how many commands it has to execute at startup then it can divide the progress that way and subdivide it the more it finds. People like to see progress happening to give an indication that something hasn't just hung up.
What would be really neat is if the loading bar just transformed into the login window if it was enabled instead of fading out.
I know, since it was included as a psychological prop in the first place I can't see the reason for dropping it-- now people are going to stare at that progress spinner thing and wonder if things are going smoothly or if they might just be staring at the spinner for the next 20 minutes.
A load bar to log-in window morph would be awesome.
If you are using a program like XMenu still, that suggests you are a bit resistent to change. No offense intended but I bet I can launch any program quite a bit faster with Spotlight than it takes to drill down a menu to find that program. Quicksilver would be even faster but I'm happy with Spotlight for now.
Change for the sake of change is pointless, and you're launching apps with Spotlight? That's positively retrograde... my Spotlight takes additional seconds (spinning beachball of death) while waiting for my external drive to spin up before it brings up any results. That's unacceptably slow performance. XMenu is twice as fast. Quicksilver is OK, but wholly dependent on your typing ability or ability to remember whatever obscure app name you are trying to locate. That leaves the Dock and XMenu.
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