The Dock "floor" is the worst UI idea Apple has ever had

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  • Reply 81 of 195
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AISI View Post


    Looking Glass is not theoretical, you can download the installers for Linux and Solaris. Requirements: 1.4 GHz or faster CPU, 512MB RAM, 3D accelerated GPU with at least 32MB VRAM and driver support for OpenGL 1.3 or greater.



    Right, bad choice of words, I meant something more along the lines of "non-mainstream".
  • Reply 82 of 195
    jimmacjimmac Posts: 11,898member
    Sorry guys but I think it looks cool! And I think it just serves to underscore how the look is better than say Vista. I'm sorry Adda but I just don't see anything wrong with this look for the dock. And generally I welcome the 3D look.
  • Reply 83 of 195
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Ok here are some new ones:



    ...



    I added a drop shadow on the menu so that it shows up no matter what background it's on (hence the image with the white square). It's not great on white but I doubt many people will have a pure white backdrop. Outlined fonts don't look very good.



    I like your dark dock a lot better. I don't like your white lettered menu: it would die in light backgrounds and doesn't look that good even here. Light lettering on dark background is more strain to the eye. In fact I think Apple's menu works better with your dark dock.



    You did need the 50% reflection, that was an important improvement. If I could choose between Apple's dock and yours (dark version), I'd choose yours hands down.



    BUT, I gotta say, I'm not crazy about the 3D dock. I think it's lame and lacks a useful metaphor. I thought so while watching Jobs show it. Change for the sake of change, and not even very pretty with the icons so far from the screen border.



    Stacks are a good thing though. I'll give them that.
  • Reply 84 of 195
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alonso Perez View Post


    I like your dark dock a lot better. I don't like your white lettered menu: it would die in light backgrounds and doesn't look that good even here. Light lettering on dark background is more strain to the eye. In fact I think Apple's menu works better with your dark dock.



    You did need the 50% reflection, that was an important improvement. If I could choose between Apple's dock and yours (dark version), I'd choose yours hands down.



    BUT, I gotta say, I'm not crazy about the 3D dock. I think it's lame and lacks a useful metaphor. I thought so while watching Jobs show it. Change for the sake of change, and not even very pretty with the icons so far from the screen border.



    Stacks are a good thing though. I'll give them that.



    A dark dock would be a UI inconsistency. I think the way they have it is close to right, they just need to drop the icons back down and make the trapezoid flatter. This is still a beta, and all features are subject to change (check out Apple's disclaimer on every page in their Leapord website). Other than that, I have no issues with the new UI. Its fresh and lick-able. More customizability to the look would be welcome(color/transparency/reflection), but being able to easily change UI behaviors can lead to confusion.
  • Reply 85 of 195
    slewisslewis Posts: 2,081member
    Null.
  • Reply 86 of 195
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    I think "the dark dock" should a kind of legend of 10.5, often rumored but rarely seen, and said to wander the desktop under cover of night, casting strange, disturbing reflections of terrified apps.
  • Reply 87 of 195
    pbpb Posts: 4,255member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    I think "the dark dock" should a kind of legend of 10.5, often rumored but rarely seen, and said to wander the desktop under cover of night, casting strange, disturbing reflections of terrified apps.



    Haha, good one addabox.
  • Reply 88 of 195
    Now I quite like the new Dock, okay so making in reflective offers no benefits, but no drawbacks either! It's eye candy yes but there's no harm in that...



    The see-through menu bar is another thing... it's eye candy gone perhaps a bit too far. First thing that went through my head when I saw it was "that's a bit Aero-esqe", now Aero has slight benefits of being able to see what's behind the current window... ish. But making the OS X menu bar transparent?.... what does that offer? I just don't get it, it will probably make the text on the menu harder to read if anything...



    In conclusion, thumbs up for the Dock, and a confused thumbs down for the Aero-like menu bar
  • Reply 89 of 195
    pbpb Posts: 4,255member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ActionJaxon View Post


    But making the OS X menu bar transparent?.... what does that offer? I just don't get it, it will probably make the text on the menu harder to read if anything...



    I cannot confirm if it is so or not, but there is word circulating and saying that the menu bar adjusts itself according to the background. FWIW.
  • Reply 90 of 195
    ssssss Posts: 30member
    I'm not an experienced Mac User myself, have a Dell XPS Desktop with Vista on it at home, and have just ordered a MBP for uni in October.



    At first glance I like the new dock, but maybe thats my windows aero brain kicking in. In saying that I still like th ecurrent dock and will have no issues using it and Tiger from now until Leopard comes out.



    Two questions I have about the dock.....



    1. Is everyone certain the dock can't be reverted back to the 'old style' flat 2D dock?



    2. On my friends MCP he scrolls along the tiger dock and all teh icons jump up and zoom to big size then shrik when you roll off them....is this feature still going to be in the 10.5 dock as I didn't see Steve Jobs using it during his KeyNote, it just stayed motionless......
  • Reply 91 of 195
    I'd have to agree. I think the new dock design is gaudy at best. One of the things that always irked me is the inordinately large translucent box surrounding the current dock. Fortunately, I was able to turn it off with a quick little hack called TransparentDock. (Installation of Safari 3 irritatingly did away with this hack, reminding me of how annoying said box was in the first place.) Now it seems that Apple has made this pointless box even larger and more obtrusive. I don't need a box to point out where my icons are located...I have the icons themselves for that.



    The most frustrating thing about the Dock seems to be it's lack of OS supported customizability. I'm fine with reflections and genie effects and icons that do the Macarena as long as I can TURN them OFF when they start to interfere with my workflow. Now, I'll have this stupid pointy trapezoidal box to duel with when I upgrade to Leopard, which sort of kills my buzz a bit. Hopefully, the cool kids that write hacks will pick up Apple's slack and come up with a way for me to turn it off. Heck, I'd even pay for that feature.
  • Reply 92 of 195
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,401member
    This thread is comedy.



    A huge discussion about a trivial feature of the Dock. Amazing. Apple will likely make changes to the Dock a bit and scale things back due to customer comments. This is a "Beta" of Leopard...not the final.



    In the end it won't bother me much because human nature makes it easy to block out many things and the "Floor" of the Dock certainly qualifies.
  • Reply 93 of 195
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post


    I'm a sideDocker too, but I dunno...



    I'm a side docker as well. Reason. It gives you the most vertical screen real estate. As a MBP user it comes in handy to have as much vertical screen as possible to work with. With Apple having widescreen displays across the product line, I wish they'd come up with a dock that is made to be on the side. That's the best place for it IMO.
  • Reply 94 of 195
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    This thread is comedy.



    A huge discussion about a trivial feature of the Dock. Amazing. Apple will likely make changes to the Dock a bit and scale things back due to customer comments. This is a "Beta" of Leopard...not the final.



    In the end it won't bother me much because human nature makes it easy to block out many things and the "Floor" of the Dock certainly qualifies.



    I disagree (obviously, since I started the thing )



    Giving the dock a different background color or new animated behaviors or making icons look different are "trivial" changes. I have aesthetic opinions about stuff like that ("like it", "don't like it") and that's that.



    Hinting 3D space on the desktop is not trivial. The Dock floor is not just a new shape and color for the Dock background-- if it were I would care less, beyond finding it awkward.



    Adding an axis to the desktop is decidedly not trivial. No, it doesn't "confuse" me or damage my productivity, but:



    --Either this is just decorative, in which case Apple considers 3D space nothing more than a way to "pop" the interface a bit, which is pretty scary, in my book, or



    --Apple plans to build on this and create some kind of 3D work space, in which case they are deploying parts randomly without any concern for function, which is pretty scary, in my book.



    Why scary instead of "meh, not my cup of tea, so what"?



    Because I care about the future of the UI, and anything that suggests that Apple has stopped thinking seriously about the ramifications of their design decisions bodes ill.



    A couple of years from now I don't want to be using a computer where stuff "sort of" wanders around in "sort of" 3D space because, bit at a time, stuff was added cause it looked cool.
  • Reply 95 of 195
    This is a very interesting thread. Really surprised about the comments. Personally, I'll take a wait and see approach to see how the Dock works with the rest of Leopard. I recall seeing another link (cannot remember where) - had to do with some of the developers that had a chance to see the functionality of the Dock in more detail. Their comments were all positive - including how the Dock looked on the side. That link was pulled, but before so - that is what they said. So maybe there is something there none of us are seeing. Oh well, October is not that far off - at least the pre-order of Leopard from Amazon appears to say bring it on - Dock and all.
  • Reply 96 of 195
    messiahmessiah Posts: 1,689member
    In my opinion the new Leopard desktop is an absolute disgrace.



    It looks like somebody has downloaded every haxie they could find, and the result is GUI that looks as though it has been cobbled together with no consideration as to how the various components work together as a system.



    The Leopard GUI that was demo'd has to be some kind of ill-conceived joke.
  • Reply 97 of 195
    sc_marktsc_markt Posts: 1,401member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    OK.



    So: the translucent menu bar doesn't bother me that much, I'll wait and see if it works for me.



    The reflective floor on the Dock, on the other hand, is a grotesque aberration that must be done away with.



    I realize Apple gets accused of functionless "eye candy" from time to time, but in fact there is almost always at least some kind of functional or work flow motivation for things morphing, bouncing, fading or zooming.



    The Dock floor has no earthly reason to be, beyond a little flash. Worse, it's a particularly clunky, poorly thought out kind of flash that just kind of sits there and says "Hey! I'm vaguely 3D! And reflective! Whatever!"



    Or so it seems to me. Can anyone think of an actual reason to do this to the Dock? I was a little unnerved by the TimeMachine interface-- mainly because it also features a very poorly implemented "3D" lower plane, one that does nothing but make the text there harder to read.



    But at least that can make some kind of claim to being part of a "receding in time" metaphor, arbitrary though it may be.



    But this? It must stop.



    I don't even care for the dock as it is now. Apple should have taken taskmenubar's method of operation and morphed it into a mini dock that resides in the menubar (and then kill off the dock.)
  • Reply 98 of 195
    bsenkabsenka Posts: 799member
    I'm one of those people who never liked the dock from the first time I used the public beta. After using it all these years, I still really dislike it. I've always seen it as an inefficient UI that tricks people into mistaking flashy graphics for functionality. The 3D dock just takes that illusion a step further.
  • Reply 99 of 195
    god get over it



    steve jobs gave it a seconds notice... it is not a feature he just said hey look, this is kinda cool, and it is. An operating system should also have the potential for fun. how boring would the thing be if it is purely about efficiency and getting work done... that is what makes a mac a mac. They are fun computers.



    They are the only computer company that makes buying a computer fun.
  • Reply 100 of 195
    tigemstigems Posts: 2member
    Long time lurker, first time poster, wooh!



    Just adding my two cents. At first I didn't like the new dock, but now I'm growing kinda fond of it. Now all my icons 'rest' on this glass slide, which almost extends my physical space into my virtual space. While this metaphor may not be that necessary, I still think the new 3D look serves a purpose. In a similar way to the iPhone, the dock seems to now be more 'real' - more 'physical', in a same way how the iPhone's scroll feature emulates the real world.



    And to the argument about the inconsistency of the use of 3D in Leopard, don't these 3D elements serve different purposes? Time Machine takes an endless 3D approach as it is a metaphor for going back in time itself - an endless thing. The dock, on the other-hand, has a contained 3D space used for 'resting' icons on.



    The 3D approach of the dock does have a metaphor behind it, but the real question in my opinion is is it necessary?
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