Why wouldn't it just be proportional? If it's 24 hours of music and 6 hours of talk, if you listened to music for 12 hours, it would drain half the battery, leaving 3 hours of talk time. In general, I've found Apple's estimates of battery life to be pretty accurate, and I'd imagine that this is the same. I'd be concerned, though, that these times would be decreased dramatically because of multi-tasking.
Because the drain rates are not necessarily proportional. It may seem as though they are, but in my experience they aren't.
Multitasking is one of the problems. Apple used very specific settings. Not the ones we might use.
No, those specs do not answer the questions raised.
You didn't refer to my questions at all.
we all know the new specs. They must have been confirmed under some testing protocall, that's obvious.
My question related to real-world use, which Apple's testing does not.
It goes like this;
Talk on the phone for 30 minutes.
Listen to music for an hour.
Talk for another 20 minutes.
Watch a 22 minute Tv show.
Go to the internet for 20 minutes.
Listen to another 30 minutes of music.
Talk on the phone for another 15 minutes.
Etc.
Under those conditions, how much time can be expected under any of those settings?
Under my scenario, I talked for 65 minutes. How much music listening time does that give me? How much video time? How much internet time on the phone network using EDGE? How much using WiFi?
Get the point?
Are you kidding? The external variables and the permutations that one could profile are numerous. Impossible to test without prejudice.
Everything being equal and under the most ideal conditions for each and all of the factors affected as tabled by Apple, any combination of talking, surfing and watching videos would have a collective battery life of 6 to 8 hours maximum between charges. I left listening out because I don't have time to do the math.
However, under your scenario, i.e., talking for 65 minutes, would leave approximately 4 hours/55 minutes to 6 hours/55 minutes to do whatever, except listen. For every minute of talking, you could listen for 3 minutes or surf for 45 seconds. For every 3 hours of listening you would lose 1 hour of available talk time.
Are you kidding? The external variables and the permutations that one could profile are numerous. Impossible to test without prejudice.
Everything being equal and under the most ideal conditions for each and all of the factors affected as tabled by Apple, any combination of talking, surfing and watching videos would have a collective battery life of 6 to 8 hours maximum between charges. I left listening out because I don't have time to do the math.
However, under your scenario, i.e., talking for 65 minutes, would leave approximately 4 hours/55 minutes to 6 hours/55 minutes to do whatever, except listen. For every minute of talking, you could listen for 3 minutes or surf for 45 seconds. For every 3 hours of listening you would lose 1 hour of available talk time.
Get the point?
It doesn't work that way though. Battery life is not linear.
There is the bounceback effect as well that has to be taken into account.
I'll tell you what I'd like to see.
With lithium batteries, we can see the actual battery time left, in minutes. Few vendors implement that ability of the batteries. Sony is the only main manufacturer that I've used that does. They tell you how much battery time is left, in minutes, in their camcorders. At least my small one does.
Apple could do the same thing, except present a list when a menu option is selected, that could show how much time is available for each function selected from a prefs file.
So you could select phone talk time with WiFi on. Phone talk time with WiFi off. Music play time. Video play time etc.
The phone could easily keep track of this for us, even if the time isn't linear, as Apple would know that.
It would also be nice if we could punch, er, tap, out a number of minutes used for a service, and see the time left for the other selected services change in response.
That way, we could keep track of how we wanted to use the phone when away from power.
There's no reason why this couldn't be done. The phone is certainly powerful enough to do the calc., and the OS is certainly capable of allowing it.
I wonder if that could be an AJAX, XML, or Widget add-on?
It would also be nice if we could punch, er, tap, out a number of minutes used for a service, and see the time left for the other selected services change in response.
That way, we could keep track of how we wanted to use the phone when away from power.
There's no reason why this couldn't be done. The phone is certainly powerful enough to do the calc., and the OS is certainly capable of allowing it.
I wonder if that could be an AJAX, XML, or Widget add-on?
Go ahead and make one. Then we could launch a class action suite for missing calls because you forgot to add in the fat-finger factor in your application. Or perhaps you could get AT&T to provide such a service since they will have most of the external data that so affectively imparts on your power consumption.
I am sure that Macworld just can't wait to run the battery tests, and that the nay sayers are equally as determined to pounce the minute they are posted. Most, most likely won't even have bought or any intention to buy an iPhone, but will offer their negative expertise as many do for everything that Apple makes.
Go ahead and make one. Then we could launch a class action suite for missing calls because you forgot to add in the fat-finger factor in your application. Or perhaps you could get AT&T to provide such a service since they will have most of the external data that so affectively imparts on your power consumption.
I suppose that's supposed to be funny?
Quote:
I am sure that Macworld just can't wait to run the battery tests, and that the nay sayers are equally as determined to pounce the minute they are posted. Most, most likely won't even have bought or any intention to buy an iPhone, but will offer their negative expertise as many do for everything that Apple makes.
You confuse nay-sayers with interest, and inquiry.
Com'n Elroth. You wrote a comment and submitted it. You should at least stand by it. The fact is, the "real world" battery life is harder to determine than taking the percentages. Can you do the math?
Question:
If the iPhone can do 6 hours of internet use and 8 hours of talk time, and you started using a brand new iPhone with a full battery, what percentage of battery life would you have left if you just took a 2 hour phone call while perusing the internet?
I certainly never learned about varying energy usage dynamics among multi-processor computing in a mutli-iasking environment in my 8th grade math class. If you did I'll gladly admit to be "pwned"... whatever that means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth
"Under my scenario, I talked for 65 minutes. How much music listening time does that give me? How much video time? How much internet time on the phone network using EDGE? How much using WiFi?
Get the point?"
You can't figure it out? Of course it's not exact, but it gives some guidance: 65 minutes of talk is about 13% of the 8 hours total. Start there - If you need more help, take an 8th grade math class.
Except for the January keynote where Jobs said that the whole point of the iPhone interface was that unlike plastic buttons it can be changed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Apple stated that there will be free software upgrades, just like with the iPod.
And how many updates have been available to the iPod? Very few. In general, the largest set of upgrades to existing iPods have been to add support for new features to the iTMS. But seldom has Apple released any update to existing, and certainly not older, models that actually added additional 'extra' functionality.
So, does that mean that the iPhone will get the same set of updates, that is, iPhone rev2 gets newer software, v1 owners start whining, Apple-zealots tell original owners that Apple never promised them newer functionality and what they have still works and all that crap they always say.
So, does that mean that the iPhone will get the same set of updates, that is, iPhone rev2 gets newer software, v1 owners start whining, Apple-zealots tell original owners that Apple never promised them newer functionality and what they have still works and all that crap they always say.
Well the whole reason Apple will count each iPhone sale over a two year period is so that upgrades will work within accounting practices. They do not do that with the iPod.
As you can see, the test results are obviously recent since they were conducted in May and June, and on preproduction iPhones and software.
I would suggest that these results as qualified will fall under the normal standards of measurement, and as such, will be significantly better than actually found on other similarly functional devices.
Thank god you pointed that out, I always run to the company producing the device for the hard facts regarding testing for their device. I personally never read any sites doing 3rd party testing because there simply isn't a need to do so.
Using WIFI alone will put a real strain on the battery. Heck the N95 only lasts less that 3 or 4 hours if your continuousley surfing.
But im impressed with Apples quotes for usage on watching videos and listening to music. If they are half as real as their quotes then already that is greater than most recent phones like the N95/N93i and we shouldnt see any problems.
After all it is a 3.5 inch screen were dealing with here.
95% of mobile phones today use a number pad to input text. iPhones keyboard will be a vast improvement for the vast majority of phone users.
I usually type on my Nokia without looking at my screen or fingers. Just occasionally look at the screen when I know I need to tab through word suggestions. This is the advantage of physical buttons. However I'm looking forward to not having to tab through words all the time and nailing the words on my first press.
Good bye "type sms while on my bicycle", and hello touch qwerty. Give and take.. I think I'll get more than I'll loose with iPhone.
Morons! The testers are morons! Imagine what would have happened if they had asked a bunch of "testers" to decide whether the original mouse was a good idea or not?
Morons! The testers are morons! Imagine what would have happened if they had asked a bunch of "testers" to decide whether the original mouse was a good idea or not?
And you're saying this because of you own vast experience with the iPhone.
I bought an iPhone and then jumped over the pond to the UK. The battery over there was well up to the specs and I had no issues. It was only coming back to the US that I found the phone to be lacking in longevity.
Given my activities have not changed, the draining culprit is a roaming one. If the signal is constantly being re-evaluated then the power on the device will suffer.
I would push this back to the Dev Team and have them work this out with AT&T.
Comments
Why wouldn't it just be proportional? If it's 24 hours of music and 6 hours of talk, if you listened to music for 12 hours, it would drain half the battery, leaving 3 hours of talk time. In general, I've found Apple's estimates of battery life to be pretty accurate, and I'd imagine that this is the same. I'd be concerned, though, that these times would be decreased dramatically because of multi-tasking.
Because the drain rates are not necessarily proportional. It may seem as though they are, but in my experience they aren't.
Multitasking is one of the problems. Apple used very specific settings. Not the ones we might use.
No, those specs do not answer the questions raised.
You didn't refer to my questions at all.
we all know the new specs. They must have been confirmed under some testing protocall, that's obvious.
My question related to real-world use, which Apple's testing does not.
It goes like this;
Talk on the phone for 30 minutes.
Listen to music for an hour.
Talk for another 20 minutes.
Watch a 22 minute Tv show.
Go to the internet for 20 minutes.
Listen to another 30 minutes of music.
Talk on the phone for another 15 minutes.
Etc.
Under those conditions, how much time can be expected under any of those settings?
Under my scenario, I talked for 65 minutes. How much music listening time does that give me? How much video time? How much internet time on the phone network using EDGE? How much using WiFi?
Get the point?
Are you kidding? The external variables and the permutations that one could profile are numerous. Impossible to test without prejudice.
Everything being equal and under the most ideal conditions for each and all of the factors affected as tabled by Apple, any combination of talking, surfing and watching videos would have a collective battery life of 6 to 8 hours maximum between charges. I left listening out because I don't have time to do the math.
However, under your scenario, i.e., talking for 65 minutes, would leave approximately 4 hours/55 minutes to 6 hours/55 minutes to do whatever, except listen. For every minute of talking, you could listen for 3 minutes or surf for 45 seconds. For every 3 hours of listening you would lose 1 hour of available talk time.
Get the point?
And that could be a very realistic usage, if the phone allows it.
It does, so long as you are using WiFi for internet access.
Are you kidding? The external variables and the permutations that one could profile are numerous. Impossible to test without prejudice.
Everything being equal and under the most ideal conditions for each and all of the factors affected as tabled by Apple, any combination of talking, surfing and watching videos would have a collective battery life of 6 to 8 hours maximum between charges. I left listening out because I don't have time to do the math.
However, under your scenario, i.e., talking for 65 minutes, would leave approximately 4 hours/55 minutes to 6 hours/55 minutes to do whatever, except listen. For every minute of talking, you could listen for 3 minutes or surf for 45 seconds. For every 3 hours of listening you would lose 1 hour of available talk time.
Get the point?
It doesn't work that way though. Battery life is not linear.
There is the bounceback effect as well that has to be taken into account.
I'll tell you what I'd like to see.
With lithium batteries, we can see the actual battery time left, in minutes. Few vendors implement that ability of the batteries. Sony is the only main manufacturer that I've used that does. They tell you how much battery time is left, in minutes, in their camcorders. At least my small one does.
Apple could do the same thing, except present a list when a menu option is selected, that could show how much time is available for each function selected from a prefs file.
So you could select phone talk time with WiFi on. Phone talk time with WiFi off. Music play time. Video play time etc.
The phone could easily keep track of this for us, even if the time isn't linear, as Apple would know that.
It would also be nice if we could punch, er, tap, out a number of minutes used for a service, and see the time left for the other selected services change in response.
That way, we could keep track of how we wanted to use the phone when away from power.
There's no reason why this couldn't be done. The phone is certainly powerful enough to do the calc., and the OS is certainly capable of allowing it.
I wonder if that could be an AJAX, XML, or Widget add-on?
I just thought of this after I posted.
It would also be nice if we could punch, er, tap, out a number of minutes used for a service, and see the time left for the other selected services change in response.
That way, we could keep track of how we wanted to use the phone when away from power.
There's no reason why this couldn't be done. The phone is certainly powerful enough to do the calc., and the OS is certainly capable of allowing it.
I wonder if that could be an AJAX, XML, or Widget add-on?
Go ahead and make one. Then we could launch a class action suite for missing calls because you forgot to add in the fat-finger factor in your application. Or perhaps you could get AT&T to provide such a service since they will have most of the external data that so affectively imparts on your power consumption.
I am sure that Macworld just can't wait to run the battery tests, and that the nay sayers are equally as determined to pounce the minute they are posted. Most, most likely won't even have bought or any intention to buy an iPhone, but will offer their negative expertise as many do for everything that Apple makes.
Go ahead and make one. Then we could launch a class action suite for missing calls because you forgot to add in the fat-finger factor in your application. Or perhaps you could get AT&T to provide such a service since they will have most of the external data that so affectively imparts on your power consumption.
I suppose that's supposed to be funny?
I am sure that Macworld just can't wait to run the battery tests, and that the nay sayers are equally as determined to pounce the minute they are posted. Most, most likely won't even have bought or any intention to buy an iPhone, but will offer their negative expertise as many do for everything that Apple makes.
You confuse nay-sayers with interest, and inquiry.
Never mind.
Com'n Elroth. You wrote a comment and submitted it. You should at least stand by it. The fact is, the "real world" battery life is harder to determine than taking the percentages. Can you do the math?I certainly never learned about varying energy usage dynamics among multi-processor computing in a mutli-iasking environment in my 8th grade math class. If you did I'll gladly admit to be "pwned"... whatever that means.
"Under my scenario, I talked for 65 minutes. How much music listening time does that give me? How much video time? How much internet time on the phone network using EDGE? How much using WiFi?
Get the point?"
You can't figure it out? Of course it's not exact, but it gives some guidance: 65 minutes of talk is about 13% of the 8 hours total. Start there - If you need more help, take an 8th grade math class.
they said the same thing about the mouse....
Excellent point. The mouse was not for the "serious" computer user and had no place in business.
Unfortunately AI falls for it every time.
And no, Apple will not offer a user-replaceable battery...
...idiot.
-Clive
Except for the January keynote where Jobs said that the whole point of the iPhone interface was that unlike plastic buttons it can be changed...
Apple stated that there will be free software upgrades, just like with the iPod.
And how many updates have been available to the iPod? Very few. In general, the largest set of upgrades to existing iPods have been to add support for new features to the iTMS. But seldom has Apple released any update to existing, and certainly not older, models that actually added additional 'extra' functionality.
So, does that mean that the iPhone will get the same set of updates, that is, iPhone rev2 gets newer software, v1 owners start whining, Apple-zealots tell original owners that Apple never promised them newer functionality and what they have still works and all that crap they always say.
So, does that mean that the iPhone will get the same set of updates, that is, iPhone rev2 gets newer software, v1 owners start whining, Apple-zealots tell original owners that Apple never promised them newer functionality and what they have still works and all that crap they always say.
Well the whole reason Apple will count each iPhone sale over a two year period is so that upgrades will work within accounting practices. They do not do that with the iPod.
If you are so concerned, perhaps the information posted on the iPhone Technical Spec site would be of value.
http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/specs.html
As you can see, the test results are obviously recent since they were conducted in May and June, and on preproduction iPhones and software.
I would suggest that these results as qualified will fall under the normal standards of measurement, and as such, will be significantly better than actually found on other similarly functional devices.
Thank god you pointed that out, I always run to the company producing the device for the hard facts regarding testing for their device. I personally never read any sites doing 3rd party testing because there simply isn't a need to do so.
But im impressed with Apples quotes for usage on watching videos and listening to music. If they are half as real as their quotes then already that is greater than most recent phones like the N95/N93i and we shouldnt see any problems.
After all it is a 3.5 inch screen were dealing with here.
Virtual Keyboard:
95% of mobile phones today use a number pad to input text. iPhones keyboard will be a vast improvement for the vast majority of phone users.
I usually type on my Nokia without looking at my screen or fingers. Just occasionally look at the screen when I know I need to tab through word suggestions. This is the advantage of physical buttons. However I'm looking forward to not having to tab through words all the time and nailing the words on my first press.
Good bye "type sms while on my bicycle", and hello touch qwerty. Give and take.. I think I'll get more than I'll loose with iPhone.
Morons! The testers are morons! Imagine what would have happened if they had asked a bunch of "testers" to decide whether the original mouse was a good idea or not?
And you're saying this because of you own vast experience with the iPhone.
I bought an iPhone and then jumped over the pond to the UK. The battery over there was well up to the specs and I had no issues. It was only coming back to the US that I found the phone to be lacking in longevity.
Given my activities have not changed, the draining culprit is a roaming one. If the signal is constantly being re-evaluated then the power on the device will suffer.
I would push this back to the Dev Team and have them work this out with AT&T.