There are things I like, and many things I don't like about multi-touch. One thing I don't like is the idea that my fingertips would be the components that would be wearing down, vs. the bottom of the mouse, or the nib of the wireless pen. Anyone consider this? Imagine the calluses from working on the multiMac(TM) 12 hours a day...
There's nothing to love about mice or keyboard. I would welcome multi-touch into my life and don't care for 'tactile' feedback.
Data entry is faster via physical keyboard than virtual.
Mice gives you higher precision than trackball or touch screen.
Quote:
I think what you are missing is that while they mention computer they don't mention monitors because that's not the part that's getting the touch-screen, it's the keyboard that's getting the touch-screen. On the screens of tablets however, that's a different matter though. The tablet would be just like the iPhone with a pop-up keyboard when needed. Say goodbye to laptops I say, eventually.
Tactile response increases speed and accuracy. The efficacy of virtual keyboard has not been proven through usability study.
That said, templates can provide the physical feedback for position reference and you can create physical overlays on top of the multi-touch device. Buxton showed this in 1985 by creating sliders with a cardboard overlay.
A "wireless" keyboard could be created that would rest on top of the multitouch surface with no batteries or connections...just physical mechanism that pushed the key base down to the surface so it could be registered which would give you the tactile response of a real keyboard without any electronics.
Same with a wireless mouse to give you pixel accuracy. A fiducial will provide a reference point much smaller than any finger.
Now, in the future, multi-touch displays that also provide tactile feedback (via ridges and perhaps feedback pressure) would be possible. We can do multi-touch interfaces with tactile response now...they just aren't transparent.
You can see how a multi-touch display work surface could work in the 1992 StarFire video made while Tog was at Sun.
If they deserve the patent(s), then they should get them. If they don't, then they shouldn't. Neither you or I can claim that we know enough about the field to have the last word on it.
Maybe not the last word but an informed word. I think that my knowledge of the field should speak for itself.
Regarding software patents and IP...far too many software developers have had to learn all to much about that.
We know nothing about your knowledge of the field. Enlighten us.
I have...I've been posting on most multi-touch threads...you can double check the info or judge it on its independent merits unless I decide I want to disclose my publications...if I have any.
What you can likely trust about me is that I am a software developer (not too lofty a claim...many geeks here) and I don't have a PhD (another negative that's not too hard to believe) and I can say I haven't been first author on any papers (not too tough a claim there either as I may never have been an author period). You can believe (or not) that I primarily write GUI code. There must be tens of thousands of folks that do UI work...none too lofty a claim there wither.
/shrug
As I say, anonymous internet credentials aren't worth a whole lot. What I write must stand on its own merits. If it doesn't sound informed well then neither am I right?
I have...I've been posting on most multi-touch threads...you can double check the info or judge it on its independent merits unless I decide I want to disclose my publications...if I have any.
What you can likely trust about me is that I am a software developer (not too lofty a claim...many geeks here) and I don't have a PhD (another negative that's not too hard to believe) and I can say I haven't been first author on any papers (not too tough a claim there either as I may never have been an author period). You can believe (or not) that I primarily write GUI code. There must be tens of thousands of folks that do UI work...none too lofty a claim there wither.
/shrug
As I say, anonymous internet credentials aren't worth a whole lot. What I write must stand on its own merits. If it doesn't sound informed well then neither am I right?
Vinea
We've both posted on these forums, so I'm not sure of what knowledge you skeaking of, but intellegent posting gets my attention first.
One thing I do know, after having done programming since 1966, until I got bored with the whole thing, is that those who program don't always have the best word on the subject.
There's a lot of the "not seeing the forest because of the trees" thing amonsgt programmers I've met.
There are exceptions, of course. Not making a comment about you here though.
Thankfully, Apple doesn't care if things can or can't be done. They break the barrier every day. That is why they are successful and we remain unknown.
So the keyboard and iSight would work together to create a whole new user interface... I like it. Would it be possible to offend the computer? That would suck if you had a term paper or project deadline approaching.
Steve says; "think different, as long as it's the same as me"
Another great man to whom we owe a lot said "You can have any color you want, as long as it's black."
Sometimes I think t is these very stubborn people who really make the world. Sure, they may be a pain in the #$$ for those working under them, but the world benefits from their vision.
---
Apple will have to make a special keyboard for George "Monkeydude" Bush with new buttons: Random Country Select, Random Horribul Intel Data, Invade, Surge, Stay the Course, Abort, Lie, Spy...
This would be truly useful only if the gesture library could be user-configurable; I have several gestures I have practiced my entire life that I would like to use to, for example, delete spam or discard a pop-up window.
I don't think the multitouch interface can sustain many headbashings though. I'm not sure multitouch can sense a flipped bird either.
When Apple (OK, after Xerox) produced the first mouse, people criticized it. How many computers today cannot be operated with a mouse?
I'm sure that if they are working on a multitouch interface of some kind that it will be criticized, too, just because it is not already common-place.
Living in the status quo (some call this "reality") is safe, but it doesn't get us anywhere.
Maybe it will catch on in a similar way. I personally hope that there's a way to get decent, useable & affordable multitouch on a computer, but we've had drawing tablets, touch screens and tablet computers for a long time and those haven't caught on, the mouse has. A person that's made the same prediction about the four devices would have been right three out of four times.
Right now, we need to see a "killer app" in order to get it accepted on the personal computer. I am more sure that the world will accept it on handhelds more than I am that the world will accept it on notebooks and desktop computers.
Anyway, hopefully multitouch catches on, that it surmounts enough of the the issues that prevented the older revisions from catching on. Right now, it's hard to say. Stuff like the patent discription gives me some amount of hope, but I can't just stop being realistic. I can see the vision, but I know that sometimes visions don't catch on.
Comments
There are things I like, and many things I don't like about multi-touch. One thing I don't like is the idea that my fingertips would be the components that would be wearing down, vs. the bottom of the mouse, or the nib of the wireless pen. Anyone consider this? Imagine the calluses from working on the multiMac(TM) 12 hours a day...
I take it you don't play guitar Spam?
Apple needs to drop multi-touch and invent Thought-Touch, you think and it moves!
I can do that already, I think and 'it' moves.
I can do that already, I think and 'it' moves.
If you follow the research, this is already being done, and it's getting better.
There's nothing to love about mice or keyboard. I would welcome multi-touch into my life and don't care for 'tactile' feedback.
Data entry is faster via physical keyboard than virtual.
Mice gives you higher precision than trackball or touch screen.
I think what you are missing is that while they mention computer they don't mention monitors because that's not the part that's getting the touch-screen, it's the keyboard that's getting the touch-screen. On the screens of tablets however, that's a different matter though. The tablet would be just like the iPhone with a pop-up keyboard when needed. Say goodbye to laptops I say, eventually.
Tactile response increases speed and accuracy. The efficacy of virtual keyboard has not been proven through usability study.
That said, templates can provide the physical feedback for position reference and you can create physical overlays on top of the multi-touch device. Buxton showed this in 1985 by creating sliders with a cardboard overlay.
A "wireless" keyboard could be created that would rest on top of the multitouch surface with no batteries or connections...just physical mechanism that pushed the key base down to the surface so it could be registered which would give you the tactile response of a real keyboard without any electronics.
Same with a wireless mouse to give you pixel accuracy. A fiducial will provide a reference point much smaller than any finger.
Now, in the future, multi-touch displays that also provide tactile feedback (via ridges and perhaps feedback pressure) would be possible. We can do multi-touch interfaces with tactile response now...they just aren't transparent.
You can see how a multi-touch display work surface could work in the 1992 StarFire video made while Tog was at Sun.
http://www.asktog.com/starfire/
Usable multi-touch/gesture based interfaces has been a goal of UI researchers since even before minority report.
Vinea
I take it you don't play guitar Spam?
Not yet. Oddly enough, I play piano.
If they deserve the patent(s), then they should get them. If they don't, then they shouldn't. Neither you or I can claim that we know enough about the field to have the last word on it.
Maybe not the last word but an informed word. I think that my knowledge of the field should speak for itself.
Regarding software patents and IP...far too many software developers have had to learn all to much about that.
Vinea
Maybe not the last word but an informed word. I think that my knowledge of the field should speak for itself.
Regarding software patents and IP...far too many software developers have had to learn all to much about that.
Vinea
We know nothing about your knowledge of the field. Enlighten us.
We know nothing about your knowledge of the field. Enlighten us.
I have...I've been posting on most multi-touch threads...you can double check the info or judge it on its independent merits unless I decide I want to disclose my publications...if I have any.
What you can likely trust about me is that I am a software developer (not too lofty a claim...many geeks here) and I don't have a PhD (another negative that's not too hard to believe) and I can say I haven't been first author on any papers (not too tough a claim there either as I may never have been an author period). You can believe (or not) that I primarily write GUI code. There must be tens of thousands of folks that do UI work...none too lofty a claim there wither.
/shrug
As I say, anonymous internet credentials aren't worth a whole lot. What I write must stand on its own merits. If it doesn't sound informed well then neither am I right?
Vinea
I have...I've been posting on most multi-touch threads...you can double check the info or judge it on its independent merits unless I decide I want to disclose my publications...if I have any.
What you can likely trust about me is that I am a software developer (not too lofty a claim...many geeks here) and I don't have a PhD (another negative that's not too hard to believe) and I can say I haven't been first author on any papers (not too tough a claim there either as I may never have been an author period). You can believe (or not) that I primarily write GUI code. There must be tens of thousands of folks that do UI work...none too lofty a claim there wither.
/shrug
As I say, anonymous internet credentials aren't worth a whole lot. What I write must stand on its own merits. If it doesn't sound informed well then neither am I right?
Vinea
We've both posted on these forums, so I'm not sure of what knowledge you skeaking of, but intellegent posting gets my attention first.
One thing I do know, after having done programming since 1966, until I got bored with the whole thing, is that those who program don't always have the best word on the subject.
There's a lot of the "not seeing the forest because of the trees" thing amonsgt programmers I've met.
There are exceptions, of course. Not making a comment about you here though.
I'm sure that if they are working on a multitouch interface of some kind that it will be criticized, too, just because it is not already common-place.
Living in the status quo (some call this "reality") is safe, but it doesn't get us anywhere.
Think different.
I wonder what gesture one would use to make a correction on the new keyboard.>.?
Me's diff'ent.
I wonder what gesture one would use to make a correction on the new keyboard.>.?
Middle finger?
Steve says; "think different, as long as it's the same as me"
Another great man to whom we owe a lot said "You can have any color you want, as long as it's black."
Sometimes I think t is these very stubborn people who really make the world. Sure, they may be a pain in the #$$ for those working under them, but the world benefits from their vision.
---
Apple will have to make a special keyboard for George "Monkeydude" Bush with new buttons: Random Country Select, Random Horribul Intel Data, Invade, Surge, Stay the Course, Abort, Lie, Spy...
I think just the middle finger button will do.
This would be truly useful only if the gesture library could be user-configurable; I have several gestures I have practiced my entire life that I would like to use to, for example, delete spam or discard a pop-up window.
I don't think the multitouch interface can sustain many headbashings though. I'm not sure multitouch can sense a flipped bird either.
When Apple (OK, after Xerox) produced the first mouse, people criticized it. How many computers today cannot be operated with a mouse?
I'm sure that if they are working on a multitouch interface of some kind that it will be criticized, too, just because it is not already common-place.
Living in the status quo (some call this "reality") is safe, but it doesn't get us anywhere.
Maybe it will catch on in a similar way. I personally hope that there's a way to get decent, useable & affordable multitouch on a computer, but we've had drawing tablets, touch screens and tablet computers for a long time and those haven't caught on, the mouse has. A person that's made the same prediction about the four devices would have been right three out of four times.
Right now, we need to see a "killer app" in order to get it accepted on the personal computer. I am more sure that the world will accept it on handhelds more than I am that the world will accept it on notebooks and desktop computers.
Anyway, hopefully multitouch catches on, that it surmounts enough of the the issues that prevented the older revisions from catching on. Right now, it's hard to say. Stuff like the patent discription gives me some amount of hope, but I can't just stop being realistic. I can see the vision, but I know that sometimes visions don't catch on.