Steve Jobs can say it's an all in one world all he wants. The fact is it's not. By far, the large majority of desktop computers sold are not all in ones. He's not going to change that. He's only going to hold back the Mac platform by trying.
Of course, you insert the caveat that most DESKTOPs aren't AIOs, but what about overall computer sales?
Of course, you insert the caveat that most DESKTOPs aren't AIOs, but what about overall computer sales?
As I said, even a lot of laptop owners have separate displays, so what does it matter? I'm sure some people get a lot of work done on a laptop. Most also have a desktop or separate display for getting real work done.
This discussion is about desktop computers, namely the mythical Mac Pro Minitower. That's why I specified desktops in my comment.
As I said, even a lot of laptop owners have separate displays, so what does it matter? I'm sure some people get a lot of work done on a laptop. Most also have a desktop or separate display for getting real work done.
This discussion is about desktop computers, namely the mythical Mac Pro Minitower. That's why I specified desktops in my comment.
And there's no reason portables can't be injected into a discussion about desktops, since within a decade they will utterly dominate them in sales. If AIOs are such a bad idea and people inherently want desktop machines they can upgrade themselves, how does one resolve this dichotomy?
Bottom line: Portables are still an emerging market, and they will only continue to eat desktop sales alive, AIOs or not. Apple doesn't feel like jumping into a market in decline unless it can offer something different; like an AIO you don't have to worry about effing around with. Short of that, they prefer to focus their manpower and R&D on where computing is going. Not where it's been or even where it's at right now.
You can laugh at the AIO world outlook all you want, but that's exactly where things are heading. The iMac simply leverages this trend to make a simple elegant desktop machine.
What trend are you looking at? The trend where PCs are going AIO, the trend where consoles are going AIO, the trend where DVD players, Blu-Ray players, Apple TVs are going AIO?
Increased laptop sales only means people want laptops, not desktops that are only as powerful as laptops and nearly as expensive but without the portability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iDave
If Apple's belief is that there's little need to upgrade a computer's internals, I tend to agree. So Apple should make a decent mini tower that not upgradeable! (In other words, better than the Mac mini.)
Exactly, though I fail to see the argument people make at all about upgradability. Apple allow you to upgrade Ram and hard drives. If people don't upgrade then why don't Apple seal these parts in? People just want the GPU and display to be included in the set of upgradable parts and it's not an unreasonable thing to ask.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iDave
It's the externals I'm concerned about. I don't like glossy screens. Now with the iMac, I don't have a choice. (What an idiotic decision on Apple's part!) I like to upgrade my computer and my display independently of each other. Most people do. Even many laptop owners have a separate display.
I like the display separate too. It adds longevity to the hardware. Naturally Apple won't like this idea but this is where the sore point is. AIO portable devices are fine, they are usually cheap. Desktops are not. Why should a display that breaks after 3 years be the deciding factor in the lifespan of the computer? Display technology isn't good enough to outlast the other parts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iDave
Steve Jobs can say it's an all in one world all he wants. The fact is it's not. By far, the large majority of desktop computers sold are not all in ones. He's not going to change that. He's only going to hold back the Mac platform by trying.
And there's no reason portables can't be injected into a discussion about desktops, since within a decade they will utterly dominate them in sales. If AIOs are such a bad idea and people inherently want desktop machines they can upgrade themselves, how does one resolve this dichotomy?
You may be right and I might eventually end up having to use a MBP in closed-lid mode all the time because Apple gives me no other choice. At least it will fit under my desk.
What trend are you looking at? The trend where PCs are going AIO, the trend where consoles are going AIO, the trend where DVD players, Blu-Ray players, Apple TVs are going AIO?
Increased laptop sales only means people want laptops, not desktops that are only as powerful as laptops and nearly as expensive but without the portability.
That would be the obvious trend in the market towards laptops, yeah. Which like it or not are AIOs. So increased laptop sales mean people want laptops. They are clearly indicating they don't really give a hoot about replacing the video cards or adding extra internal HDs.
So Apple looks at this trend, and they decide they want to try something different in the desktop area. They cater to the trend being established by consumers. It may end up being an abysmal failure, but it's something they've been trying for a very long time and haven't yet failed, even if they haven't set the world on fire with their offerings.
And yeah, adding an external HD to my iMac may have all of a sudden disqualified it from the AIO category, but I gotta tell you AIO or not, this 20" iMac and 250GB Lacie ExHD still take up WAY less real estate in my office than any tower/minitower+display combo could ever hope to.
You may be right and I might eventually end up having to use a MBP in closed-lid mode all the time because Apple gives me no other choice. At least it will fit under my desk.
Apple doesn't prevent you from seeking out another manufacturer that would better suit your needs. I don't think even Steve Jobs himself would tell you Apple makes the perfect computer for everyone. If Apple is so bad to you, move on.
Plus, there's no need to use your MBP in closed lid mode. Just get yourself an iMac! See, they DO offer you a choice!!!
Apple doesn't prevent you from seeking out another manufacturer that would better suit your needs. I don't think even Steve Jobs himself would tell you Apple makes the perfect computer for everyone. If Apple is so bad to you, move on.
Plus, there's no need to use your MBP in closed lid mode. Just get yourself an iMac! See, they DO offer you a choice!!!
Apple does prevent the purchase of OS X computers from other manufacturers!
Apple does prevent the purchase of OS X computers from other manufacturers!
Then you've concluded that OS X alone is enough reason for you to continue to operate within the Apple paradigm. They did not conclude this for you, nor did they prevent you from coming to some other conclusion.
Then you've concluded that OS X alone is enough reason for you to continue to operate within the Apple paradigm. They did not conclude this for you, nor did they prevent you from coming to some other conclusion.
Yes but I don't think supporting the used Mac market is what Apple shareholders have in mind.
Yes but I don't think supporting the used Mac market is what Apple shareholders have in mind.
And I don't think you in any way represent a large problem for Apple, as a corporation, with your buying decisions. You represent a smaller segment of users than AIO consumers do. If you didn't Apple would be selling you your mini tower and I'd be upset about the lack of AIO offerings.
The xMac discussion is and has been getting old. I've grown tired of saying and reading the same things over and over, arguing with iMac supporters who argue the same things over and over.
The reason I've made a few entries here today is because of Apple's terrible recent decision to move the iMacs to glossy screens. This makes the iMac even less desirable than before, IMO.
I'm glad some people enjoy their iMacs. In some respects the iMac is a pretty nifty computer.
Apple says one thing, sometimes does another. I can think of the Mac mini as a prime example. At an analysts conference call Apple reps said in the fall of 2004 they had no interest in the sub $799 computer space. Lo and behold, a few months later in January at MacWorld '05, along comes the $499 Mac mini. Another example would be Steve saying that he didn't think movies on the iPod would be such a good idea. And along comes a video-based iPod.
Back to the mini for a sec: what has become of it is somewhat interesting. I think the Mac mini and the Apple TV are going to morph into one thing at some future point. Take a look at that new Apple bluetooth keyboard sans the # pad, and the comment Steve made about customers like putting their wireless keyboard in their laps. The mini is really what the Apple TV should be the Apple TV should really be what the mini is. But if this happens, as I expect, what happens to what I believe is an important area of the product portfolio?
This brings it all back to that headless Mac discussion. Apple's absence making a headless Mac with the desktop chips it has access to thanks to its relationship with Intel is a real head scratcher. The Mac Pro is huge and expensive. And the iMac is, well, disappointing like others have said — extremely limited expansion capabilities, etc. I, too, long for the headless Mac. A tower that is highly customizeable. Perhaps Apple needs a pro tower and a consumer tower. I don't care. People haven't stopped buying Dells, HP, etc. towers. I think Apple could definitely capitalize on it. One thing is for sure — again, Apple will say one thing, and then do another.
It seems more likely that the next Mac Pro update will start with a slightly cheaper base configuration than that they will release a new line of towers or minitowers directed towards midhigh-end consumers.
Apple says one thing, sometimes does another. I can think of the Mac mini as a prime example. At an analysts conference call Apple reps said in the fall of 2004 they had no interest in the sub $799 computer space. Lo and behold, a few months later in January at MacWorld '05, along comes the $499 Mac mini. Another example would be Steve saying that he didn't think movies on the iPod would be such a good idea. And along comes a video-based iPod.
Back to the mini for a sec: what has become of it is somewhat interesting. I think the Mac mini and the Apple TV are going to morph into one thing at some future point. Take a look at that new Apple bluetooth keyboard sans the # pad, and the comment Steve made about customers like putting their wireless keyboard in their laps. The mini is really what the Apple TV should be the Apple TV should really be what the mini is. But if this happens, as I expect, what happens to what I believe is an important area of the product portfolio?
This brings it all back to that headless Mac discussion. Apple's absence making a headless Mac with the desktop chips it has access to thanks to its relationship with Intel is a real head scratcher. The Mac Pro is huge and expensive. And the iMac is, well, disappointing like others have said — extremely limited expansion capabilities, etc. I, too, long for the headless Mac. A tower that is highly customizeable. Perhaps Apple needs a pro tower and a consumer tower. I don't care. People haven't stopped buying Dells, HP, etc. towers. I think Apple could definitely capitalize on it. One thing is for sure — again, Apple will say one thing, and then do another.
very good comment from a senior member.
I think apple should release some form of real Desktop Mac, success and failure truly depends how they priced it.
It is NOT IBM and its CPUs, it is Intel and they have plenty offer in Mobile, Desktop, Server CPUs.
people who do not like Desktop Mac, i think they open their mind and acknowledge there is a gap, and that gap can be filled up easily
personally i am interested in iMac (for my needs) but Desktop Mac will play huge part in switching more switchers...
Comments
Steve Jobs can say it's an all in one world all he wants. The fact is it's not. By far, the large majority of desktop computers sold are not all in ones. He's not going to change that. He's only going to hold back the Mac platform by trying.
Of course, you insert the caveat that most DESKTOPs aren't AIOs, but what about overall computer sales?
Of course, you insert the caveat that most DESKTOPs aren't AIOs, but what about overall computer sales?
As I said, even a lot of laptop owners have separate displays, so what does it matter? I'm sure some people get a lot of work done on a laptop. Most also have a desktop or separate display for getting real work done.
This discussion is about desktop computers, namely the mythical Mac Pro Minitower. That's why I specified desktops in my comment.
As I said, even a lot of laptop owners have separate displays, so what does it matter? I'm sure some people get a lot of work done on a laptop. Most also have a desktop or separate display for getting real work done.
This discussion is about desktop computers, namely the mythical Mac Pro Minitower. That's why I specified desktops in my comment.
And there's no reason portables can't be injected into a discussion about desktops, since within a decade they will utterly dominate them in sales. If AIOs are such a bad idea and people inherently want desktop machines they can upgrade themselves, how does one resolve this dichotomy?
Bottom line: Portables are still an emerging market, and they will only continue to eat desktop sales alive, AIOs or not. Apple doesn't feel like jumping into a market in decline unless it can offer something different; like an AIO you don't have to worry about effing around with. Short of that, they prefer to focus their manpower and R&D on where computing is going. Not where it's been or even where it's at right now.
First there is a lot a people who want a choice of monitors and graphics cards.
Second there's no way to have a second interrnal hard drive. Sure you can add external boxes and their cables but then it's no longer an AIO.
There are two major problems with All In Ones.
First there is a lot a people who want a choice of monitors and graphics cards.
Second there's no way to have a second interrnal hard drive. Sure you can add external boxes and their cables but then it's no longer an AIO.
And nobody will ever make a computer that caters to everyone's needs.
So while those problems admittedly exist, Apple sees them as less problematic than entering into the mini tower competition.
Until such a day as they decide otherwise, that's just how it's going to be.
You can laugh at the AIO world outlook all you want, but that's exactly where things are heading. The iMac simply leverages this trend to make a simple elegant desktop machine.
What trend are you looking at? The trend where PCs are going AIO, the trend where consoles are going AIO, the trend where DVD players, Blu-Ray players, Apple TVs are going AIO?
Increased laptop sales only means people want laptops, not desktops that are only as powerful as laptops and nearly as expensive but without the portability.
If Apple's belief is that there's little need to upgrade a computer's internals, I tend to agree. So Apple should make a decent mini tower that not upgradeable! (In other words, better than the Mac mini.)
Exactly, though I fail to see the argument people make at all about upgradability. Apple allow you to upgrade Ram and hard drives. If people don't upgrade then why don't Apple seal these parts in? People just want the GPU and display to be included in the set of upgradable parts and it's not an unreasonable thing to ask.
It's the externals I'm concerned about. I don't like glossy screens. Now with the iMac, I don't have a choice. (What an idiotic decision on Apple's part!) I like to upgrade my computer and my display independently of each other. Most people do. Even many laptop owners have a separate display.
I like the display separate too. It adds longevity to the hardware. Naturally Apple won't like this idea but this is where the sore point is. AIO portable devices are fine, they are usually cheap. Desktops are not. Why should a display that breaks after 3 years be the deciding factor in the lifespan of the computer? Display technology isn't good enough to outlast the other parts.
Steve Jobs can say it's an all in one world all he wants. The fact is it's not. By far, the large majority of desktop computers sold are not all in ones. He's not going to change that. He's only going to hold back the Mac platform by trying.
Totally agree with that.
And there's no reason portables can't be injected into a discussion about desktops, since within a decade they will utterly dominate them in sales. If AIOs are such a bad idea and people inherently want desktop machines they can upgrade themselves, how does one resolve this dichotomy?
You may be right and I might eventually end up having to use a MBP in closed-lid mode all the time because Apple gives me no other choice.
What trend are you looking at? The trend where PCs are going AIO, the trend where consoles are going AIO, the trend where DVD players, Blu-Ray players, Apple TVs are going AIO?
Increased laptop sales only means people want laptops, not desktops that are only as powerful as laptops and nearly as expensive but without the portability.
That would be the obvious trend in the market towards laptops, yeah. Which like it or not are AIOs. So increased laptop sales mean people want laptops. They are clearly indicating they don't really give a hoot about replacing the video cards or adding extra internal HDs.
So Apple looks at this trend, and they decide they want to try something different in the desktop area. They cater to the trend being established by consumers. It may end up being an abysmal failure, but it's something they've been trying for a very long time and haven't yet failed, even if they haven't set the world on fire with their offerings.
And yeah, adding an external HD to my iMac may have all of a sudden disqualified it from the AIO category, but I gotta tell you AIO or not, this 20" iMac and 250GB Lacie ExHD still take up WAY less real estate in my office than any tower/minitower+display combo could ever hope to.
You may be right and I might eventually end up having to use a MBP in closed-lid mode all the time because Apple gives me no other choice.
Apple doesn't prevent you from seeking out another manufacturer that would better suit your needs. I don't think even Steve Jobs himself would tell you Apple makes the perfect computer for everyone. If Apple is so bad to you, move on.
Plus, there's no need to use your MBP in closed lid mode. Just get yourself an iMac! See, they DO offer you a choice!!!
Apple doesn't prevent you from seeking out another manufacturer that would better suit your needs. I don't think even Steve Jobs himself would tell you Apple makes the perfect computer for everyone. If Apple is so bad to you, move on.
Plus, there's no need to use your MBP in closed lid mode. Just get yourself an iMac! See, they DO offer you a choice!!!
Apple does prevent the purchase of OS X computers from other manufacturers!
Apple does prevent the purchase of OS X computers from other manufacturers!
Then you've concluded that OS X alone is enough reason for you to continue to operate within the Apple paradigm. They did not conclude this for you, nor did they prevent you from coming to some other conclusion.
If Apple is so bad to you, move on.
That's easy to say. I've used only Macs for 18 years. Windows is not an option.
Plus, there's no need to use your MBP in closed lid mode. Just get yourself an iMac! See, they DO offer you a choice!!!
Never. I can say right now, categorically, I will never buy an iMac. If I want an all in one, I'll get a portable.
That's easy to say. I've used only Macs for 18 years. Windows is not an option.
Windows is always an option. You simply choose not to consider it.
Never. I can say right now, categorically, I will never buy an iMac. If I want an all in one, I'll get a portable.
That's fine. It's your choice. Choice being the key word. At every turn you are making your own decision based on what you feel works best for you.
Then you've concluded that OS X alone is enough reason for you to continue to operate within the Apple paradigm. They did not conclude this for you, nor did they prevent you from coming to some other conclusion.
Yes but I don't think supporting the used Mac market is what Apple shareholders have in mind.
Yes but I don't think supporting the used Mac market is what Apple shareholders have in mind.
And I don't think you in any way represent a large problem for Apple, as a corporation, with your buying decisions. You represent a smaller segment of users than AIO consumers do. If you didn't Apple would be selling you your mini tower and I'd be upset about the lack of AIO offerings.
The reason I've made a few entries here today is because of Apple's terrible recent decision to move the iMacs to glossy screens. This makes the iMac even less desirable than before, IMO.
I'm glad some people enjoy their iMacs. In some respects the iMac is a pretty nifty computer.
Have a nice day.
Back to the mini for a sec: what has become of it is somewhat interesting. I think the Mac mini and the Apple TV are going to morph into one thing at some future point. Take a look at that new Apple bluetooth keyboard sans the # pad, and the comment Steve made about customers like putting their wireless keyboard in their laps. The mini is really what the Apple TV should be the Apple TV should really be what the mini is. But if this happens, as I expect, what happens to what I believe is an important area of the product portfolio?
This brings it all back to that headless Mac discussion. Apple's absence making a headless Mac with the desktop chips it has access to thanks to its relationship with Intel is a real head scratcher. The Mac Pro is huge and expensive. And the iMac is, well, disappointing like others have said — extremely limited expansion capabilities, etc. I, too, long for the headless Mac. A tower that is highly customizeable. Perhaps Apple needs a pro tower and a consumer tower. I don't care. People haven't stopped buying Dells, HP, etc. towers. I think Apple could definitely capitalize on it. One thing is for sure — again, Apple will say one thing, and then do another.
Apple says one thing, sometimes does another. I can think of the Mac mini as a prime example. At an analysts conference call Apple reps said in the fall of 2004 they had no interest in the sub $799 computer space. Lo and behold, a few months later in January at MacWorld '05, along comes the $499 Mac mini. Another example would be Steve saying that he didn't think movies on the iPod would be such a good idea. And along comes a video-based iPod.
Back to the mini for a sec: what has become of it is somewhat interesting. I think the Mac mini and the Apple TV are going to morph into one thing at some future point. Take a look at that new Apple bluetooth keyboard sans the # pad, and the comment Steve made about customers like putting their wireless keyboard in their laps. The mini is really what the Apple TV should be the Apple TV should really be what the mini is. But if this happens, as I expect, what happens to what I believe is an important area of the product portfolio?
This brings it all back to that headless Mac discussion. Apple's absence making a headless Mac with the desktop chips it has access to thanks to its relationship with Intel is a real head scratcher. The Mac Pro is huge and expensive. And the iMac is, well, disappointing like others have said — extremely limited expansion capabilities, etc. I, too, long for the headless Mac. A tower that is highly customizeable. Perhaps Apple needs a pro tower and a consumer tower. I don't care. People haven't stopped buying Dells, HP, etc. towers. I think Apple could definitely capitalize on it. One thing is for sure — again, Apple will say one thing, and then do another.
very good comment from a senior member.
I think apple should release some form of real Desktop Mac, success and failure truly depends how they priced it.
It is NOT IBM and its CPUs, it is Intel and they have plenty offer in Mobile, Desktop, Server CPUs.
people who do not like Desktop Mac, i think they open their mind and acknowledge there is a gap, and that gap can be filled up easily
personally i am interested in iMac (for my needs) but Desktop Mac will play huge part in switching more switchers...
here comes MWSF 09 and let see what happens then