the genius bar should have a little section with a lower desk so the mac genius can sit down and get on the same eye level as the handicapped person. that would be a good solution.
as with the desks i always thought they're low enough to be accessible by wheelchair. if that's not the case another solution or height has to be implemented.
I agree with both of these points 100%. Steve's store designers should have thought of this beforehand.
Also, it's just good business to make retail stores more approachable to more people. I'm sure once The Steve is made aware of this, they'll retrofit whatever they need to.
A total waste of important government resources, time, space, etc. My guess is it is two women who are probably in wheelchairs because they ate themselves into obesity, and have nothing better to do with their time. People who are truly handicapped adapt themselves to this unfair place we know as the real world.
What government resources are you referring to? I could easily recall dozens of taxpayer-wasting court cases that rate much lower on the Importance Meter.
...letting either of them return to the Stockton Street outlet as equals to their fellow customers.
That's the whole problem with these complaints, and handicap laws in general. People in wheelchairs are NOT equals to people who can move on their own two feet. Of course, someone in a wheelchair has the same political rights as anyone else, but they clearly DO NO have equal physical skills or abilities as someone who can walk, and it's not reasonable to expect an entire society to re-engineer itself to give a tiny minority the exact same access as people who aren't handicapped.
It sounds to me like these women want the world to revolve around them, instead of doing reasonable work given that they're the ones in the tiny minority. Can't reach an elevator button? Instead of asking for the elevator to be redesigned, how about asking any customer or store employee to push the button for you. Need to tell the staff that you're there for your appointment? Then raise your hand, and say in a clear voice: "Excuse me, I need to check in."
It didn't sound like these women did much to help themselves, but expected Apple to simply anticipate their every specialized need. Also, It didn't sound like they ever spoke to a store manager, who could have addressed a lot of their issues. Perhaps they felt they shouldn't have to...
That's the whole problem with these complaints, and handicap laws in general. People in wheelchairs are NOT equals to people who can move on their own two feet. Of course, someone in a wheelchair has the same political rights as anyone else, but they clearly DO NO have equal physical skills or abilities as someone who can walk, and it's not reasonable to expect an entire society to re-engineer itself to give a tiny minority the exact same access as people who aren't handicapped.
It sounds to me like these women want the world to revolve around them, instead of doing reasonable work given that they're the ones in the tiny minority. Can't reach an elevator button? Instead of asking for the elevator to be redesigned, how about asking any customer or store employee to push the button for you. Need to tell the staff that you're there for your appointment? Then raise your hand, and say in a clear voice: "Excuse me, I need to check in."
It didn't sound like these women did much to help themselves, but expected Apple to simply anticipate their every specialized need. Also, It didn't sound like they ever spoke to a store manager, who could have addressed a lot of their issues. Perhaps they felt they shouldn't have to...
Amazing.
"People in wheelchairs are NOT equals to people who can move on their own two feet."
- So only people with your particular set of advantages deserve access to the societal resources available to everyone else?
" Of course, someone in a wheelchair has the same political rights as anyone else"
- oh my... how magnanimous of you.
"it's not reasonable to expect an entire society to re-engineer itself to give a tiny minority the exact same access as people who aren't handicapped. "
- sorry, but that's EXACTLY what society is for... to level the playing field
"It sounds to me like these women want the world to revolve around them,'
- unlike you, who only wants it to revolve around those who already have it made. Fairness, after all is so inconvenient.
"how about asking any customer or store employee to push the button for you.."
- yes, we should make sure we remind people who've already had their life made inconceivably hard that they must grovel for scraps.
"It didn't sound like these women did much to help themselves"
- you have absolutely no way of knowing that. Common experience for the disabled indicates exactly the opposite.
This is ridiculous.
I won't point out the absolute lack of a soul you and your truly whining compatriots on this thread are showing to the world, but I ask you one favor.
Please print out and save this thread somewhere, and at some time in the future, when your now-perfect body starts betraying you (as it inevitably will), and look back on how little you understood about 'this real world'
You got to be kidding? Regardless of HOW they got in their conditions they are disabled and deserve the respect of any other customer. Sound like a bigot to me.
What they chopped their own legs off to get disability payments?
Do I still have to respect them?
I think they sound like opportunistic, lawsuit-happy hucksters, who just happen to be in wheel chairs.
"It didn't sound like these women did much to help themselves"
- you have absolutely no way of knowing that. Common experience for the disabled indicates exactly the opposite.
This is ridiculous.
I won't point out the absolute lack of a soul you and your truly whining compatriots on this thread are showing to the world, but I ask you one favor.
Please print out and save this thread somewhere, and at some time in the future, when your now-perfect body starts betraying you (as it inevitably will), and look back on how little you understood about 'this real world'
Respect goes both ways.
Had these women handled the situation in an appropriate way, I'm sure they would have been accommodated.
If you read the article you would see that this lawsuit was based on two trips and neither woman spoke to a manager.
I apologize for getting off on another tangent but this disability lawsuit thing is very problematic because disabilities defined by the ADA are so broad as to include mental and sensory disabilities as well.
Most people don't realize that there are over 500,000 blind people in the US and very little is done in corporate environments to accommodate their needs. For example, the iPhone can never be legally adopted as a corporate communication device because it cannot be operated by blind people. Other mobile devices with "Talk" installed are quite usable since they usually have fixed buttons that the user can feel and speaker phone capabilities.
So where ever a lawyer can find a loop hole, you will probably find a lawsuit. That's just the way lawyers are.
"People in wheelchairs are NOT equals to people who can move on their own two feet."
- So only people with your particular set of advantages deserve access to the societal resources available to everyone else?
" Of course, someone in a wheelchair has the same political rights as anyone else"
- oh my... how magnanimous of you.
"it's not reasonable to expect an entire society to re-engineer itself to give a tiny minority the exact same access as people who aren't handicapped. "
- sorry, but that's EXACTLY what society is for... to level the playing field
"It sounds to me like these women want the world to revolve around them,'
- unlike you, who only wants it to revolve around those who already have it made. Fairness, after all is so inconvenient.
"how about asking any customer or store employee to push the button for you.."
- yes, we should make sure we remind people who've already had their life made inconceivably hard that they must grovel for scraps.
"It didn't sound like these women did much to help themselves"
- you have absolutely no way of knowing that. Common experience for the disabled indicates exactly the opposite.
This is ridiculous.
I won't point out the absolute lack of a soul you and your truly whining compatriots on this thread are showing to the world, but I ask you one favor.
Please print out and save this thread somewhere, and at some time in the future, when your now-perfect body starts betraying you (as it inevitably will), and look back on how little you understood about 'this real world'
Blah blah blah. Your whole dumb argument could be summed up with your inane statement that society is primarily here to "level the playing field." Since when? Maybe in your own Communist-Pinko little fantasy-land, but not here in America, and not in the vast majority of other countries as well. Society is here to provide for common defense, and for **getting ahead** by mutual collaboration. Humans didn't form societies with the primary goal of elevating the poor, the sick, the lazy, what have you. Those people can often be helped by great societies, but putting the less-capable people on the same even ground as the more capable people has never been "Job One" so to speak. If you disagree, then name a few societies that have been organized around your principal? The Egyptian? The Greek? The Etruscan? The Roman? The Han? The Carolingian? The Aztec? The Mayan? The Ming? The Zulu? The various French Republics? The Ottoman? The Mongol? The English? The German? The American? Please name them.
Speaking of America in particular, here's the preamble to our Constitution:
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
I don't think you could look at that and derive that a small minority of wheel-chair bound people must have equal physical access to all that non-handicapped people enjoy, regardless of expense.
I don't think you could look at that and derive that a small minority of wheel-chair bound people must have equal physical access to all that non-handicapped people enjoy, regardless of expense.
Without the disability act and handicapped parking spaces, where would arrogant people park their luxury cars displaying no placards?
Having been to the store many times, even for non-disabled people, it's a challenge getting around due to the sheer crowdedness of the place, and I've always had to fish for an Apple Store employee to help me after as long as 10 minutes of waiting around. Its clearly understaffed. It's also a bit hard to locate the elevator in question, especially with the height disadvantages and the crowds in question.
Maybe I'll take low-height pics next time I go there with my iPhone just for a little curiosity.
That said, if the employee had to disconnect the credit card scanner to bring it out, I wonder why one of the employees couldn't just be handed the credit card, or use one of the quick buy portable scanners they have on hand. ....probably because they were too busy helping other customers.
Speaking of America in particular, here's the preamble to our Constitution:
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Good god... you didn't even read your own post.
"Promote the general welfare".
But that part always gets ignored, doesn't it? Maybe it only means the welfare of the 'haves'.
But I've said my piece. As I said... at some point you'll get why we watch each other's back. It doesn't occur to Randian types that their 'success' was to an enormous degree due to luck of the draw. FIGMO, huh?
Too bad all of those various minority types make it so hard for those of us who already have.
Without the disability act and handicapped parking spaces, where would arrogant people park their luxury cars displaying no placards?
I happen to think handicapped parking spaces are a great idea, and a perfect example of what society can do--within reason--to make life easier for even a tiny minority of its citizens.
Designing complex retail operations so that every last thing is easily accessible to someone sitting in a chair is not reasonable, on the other hand.
That's the whole problem with these complaints, and handicap laws in general. People in wheelchairs are NOT equals to people who can move on their own two feet. Of course, someone in a wheelchair has the same political rights as anyone else, but they clearly DO NO have equal physical skills or abilities as someone who can walk, and it's not reasonable to expect an entire society to re-engineer itself to give a tiny minority the exact same access as people who aren't handicapped.
It sounds to me like these women want the world to revolve around them, instead of doing reasonable work given that they're the ones in the tiny minority. Can't reach an elevator button? Instead of asking for the elevator to be redesigned, how about asking any customer or store employee to push the button for you. Need to tell the staff that you're there for your appointment? Then raise your hand, and say in a clear voice: "Excuse me, I need to check in."
It didn't sound like these women did much to help themselves, but expected Apple to simply anticipate their every specialized need. Also, It didn't sound like they ever spoke to a store manager, who could have addressed a lot of their issues. Perhaps they felt they shouldn't have to...
Maybe they expect a little common courtesy? If you run a store and want to sell stuff, you'd expect someone to actually help sell you stuff?
Like a couple of other people mentioned in this thread, there seems to be alot of assumptions made in this thread. Who cares how they got in a wheelchair! It's not our role to judge and it doesn't matter in this case. Maybe they're victims of 9/11 or east coast quake. Maybe they're war vets. Would that change your thinking?
Why aren't elevator buttons at the correct height? This is a brand new store. Why didn't some customer offer to help them find something? It looks to me like they just need to have procedures reviewed in some cases.
I am disabled, and Apple has ALWAYS helped me when needed at their stores. They have walked across a large mall to help load my purchases in my car and always treated me with respect.
First Class company has far as I am concerned in their attitute toward the Disabled!
But that part always gets ignored, doesn't it? Maybe it only means the welfare of the 'haves'.
No, I read my post, but clearly you didn't read your dictionary. What's the definition of "general", GQB? Take a look at your Dashboard dictionary, and you'll see:
"Affecting or concerning all or most people, places or things. Widespread.....true for all or most cases....Considering or including the main features or elements of something, and disregarding exceptions overall."
You could not possibly argue that accommodating the needs/demands of these women falls under "general welfare" in a country that consists of more than 300 million people, the vast vast majority of whom can walk.
I am disabled, and Apple has ALWAYS helped me when needed at their stores. They have walked across a large mall to help load my purchases in my car and always treated me with respect.
First Class company has far as I am concerned in their attitute toward the Disabled!
P.S. - Apple is welcome to contact me about this if I can be helpful to them.
By any chance, are your experiences gained by less busy Apple Stores? The San Francisco Stockton one is huge, and if I remember correctly, this is where Steve Jobs announced the iPod Shuffle and Mac Mini back in 2005. While I don't believe for a second that Apple is anti-disabled, it is just about fact that the Stockton location isn't very disabled friendly.
For any San Francisco people, I recommend they just visit the Stonestown location for all their Apple Store needs.
My wife is a physical therapist and has worked with people in wheel chairs for 40+ years. Then she was diagnosed with leukemia and is now on a 14 month chemo treatment plan. After the first two the muscles in her legs were shot and a wheel chair was needed for her to go anywhere. To be fair, you could take any pro athlete in top shape and after those first two treatments they wold also be in a wheelchair - it's part of the side effects of the poisons (sorry, chemo drugs) they use.
Depending on where she is on the treatment plan (today finishing up #6 of 10 rounds) she is walking somewhat normally, using a cain or a wheelchair. Fortunately she's near normal this month.
For her, and a great many others, the ADA has been a blessing. It has been abused by lawyers looking for some fast cash, but the basic concept of reasonable accommodation is important in this country - or any other.
In Apple's case I'm assuming that staff training focused on the technical side, with little or no attention paid to the staff's side of reasonable accommodation. That's assuming that the stores were not so busy that everyone had to wait for service. I would assume that Apple will be adding some training in the area of helping the handicapped if there is any validity to these suits.
By the way, for those that think "handicapped" is a crock, understand that you are nor immune to joining the ranks. With leukemia it only takes ONE white cell to fully mature and you are off to the races. A drunk driver can add you to this population in a flash, as can a wide range of other situations.
In other words, grow up, be very grateful you are not in a wheel chair and have a bit of understanding (if possible) for those that are.
Blah blah blah. Your whole dumb argument could be summed up with your inane statement that society is primarily here to "level the playing field." Since when? Maybe in your own Communist-Pinko little fantasy-land, but not here in America, and not in the vast majority of other countries as well. Society is here to provide for common defense, and for **getting ahead** by mutual collaboration. Humans didn't form societies with the primary goal of elevating the poor, the sick, the lazy, what have you. Those people can often be helped by great societies, but putting the less-capable people on the same even ground as the more capable people has never been "Job One" so to speak. If you disagree, then name a few societies that have been organized around your principal? The Egyptian? The Greek? The Etruscan? The Roman? The Han? The Carolingian? The Aztec? The Mayan? The Ming? The Zulu? The various French Republics? The Ottoman? The Mongol? The English? The German? The American? Please name them.
Speaking of America in particular, here's the preamble to our Constitution:
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
I don't think you could look at that and derive that a small minority of wheel-chair bound people must have equal physical access to all that non-handicapped people enjoy, regardless of expense.
Society in my opinion is ever changing and there has to be a balancing act of weighing one groups needs within the whole. This is what a civil society does. When tipped too far in one direction we all will suffer. One incident in New York City back in the late 90's involved a company installing public pay toilets (kiosk) throughout Manhattan's busiest neighborhoods. This was a great idea since if you live here or have visited you will find it is impossible to find a restroom unless you are in a large store or restaurant. The Kiosk were put in place and seemed to be welcomed by everyone until a group advocating people with disabilities rights sued because there were two separate kiosk at each location one for the disabled and one for the general public. The suit demanded that all kiosk should be converted to disabled friendly. Even though for every standard kiosk a wheelchair accessible kiosk stood next to it. The company that had provided the kiosk backed out of the contract with the city and pulled the kiosk off the streets. This is an extreme case but it does show the real world financial limits on a good idea.
Comments
the genius bar should have a little section with a lower desk so the mac genius can sit down and get on the same eye level as the handicapped person. that would be a good solution.
as with the desks i always thought they're low enough to be accessible by wheelchair. if that's not the case another solution or height has to be implemented.
I agree with both of these points 100%. Steve's store designers should have thought of this beforehand.
Also, it's just good business to make retail stores more approachable to more people. I'm sure once The Steve is made aware of this, they'll retrofit whatever they need to.
A total waste of important government resources, time, space, etc. My guess is it is two women who are probably in wheelchairs because they ate themselves into obesity, and have nothing better to do with their time. People who are truly handicapped adapt themselves to this unfair place we know as the real world.
What government resources are you referring to? I could easily recall dozens of taxpayer-wasting court cases that rate much lower on the Importance Meter.
...letting either of them return to the Stockton Street outlet as equals to their fellow customers.
That's the whole problem with these complaints, and handicap laws in general. People in wheelchairs are NOT equals to people who can move on their own two feet. Of course, someone in a wheelchair has the same political rights as anyone else, but they clearly DO NO have equal physical skills or abilities as someone who can walk, and it's not reasonable to expect an entire society to re-engineer itself to give a tiny minority the exact same access as people who aren't handicapped.
It sounds to me like these women want the world to revolve around them, instead of doing reasonable work given that they're the ones in the tiny minority. Can't reach an elevator button? Instead of asking for the elevator to be redesigned, how about asking any customer or store employee to push the button for you. Need to tell the staff that you're there for your appointment? Then raise your hand, and say in a clear voice: "Excuse me, I need to check in."
It didn't sound like these women did much to help themselves, but expected Apple to simply anticipate their every specialized need. Also, It didn't sound like they ever spoke to a store manager, who could have addressed a lot of their issues. Perhaps they felt they shouldn't have to...
That's the whole problem with these complaints, and handicap laws in general. People in wheelchairs are NOT equals to people who can move on their own two feet. Of course, someone in a wheelchair has the same political rights as anyone else, but they clearly DO NO have equal physical skills or abilities as someone who can walk, and it's not reasonable to expect an entire society to re-engineer itself to give a tiny minority the exact same access as people who aren't handicapped.
It sounds to me like these women want the world to revolve around them, instead of doing reasonable work given that they're the ones in the tiny minority. Can't reach an elevator button? Instead of asking for the elevator to be redesigned, how about asking any customer or store employee to push the button for you. Need to tell the staff that you're there for your appointment? Then raise your hand, and say in a clear voice: "Excuse me, I need to check in."
It didn't sound like these women did much to help themselves, but expected Apple to simply anticipate their every specialized need. Also, It didn't sound like they ever spoke to a store manager, who could have addressed a lot of their issues. Perhaps they felt they shouldn't have to...
Amazing.
"People in wheelchairs are NOT equals to people who can move on their own two feet."
- So only people with your particular set of advantages deserve access to the societal resources available to everyone else?
" Of course, someone in a wheelchair has the same political rights as anyone else"
- oh my... how magnanimous of you.
"it's not reasonable to expect an entire society to re-engineer itself to give a tiny minority the exact same access as people who aren't handicapped. "
- sorry, but that's EXACTLY what society is for... to level the playing field
"It sounds to me like these women want the world to revolve around them,'
- unlike you, who only wants it to revolve around those who already have it made. Fairness, after all is so inconvenient.
"how about asking any customer or store employee to push the button for you.."
- yes, we should make sure we remind people who've already had their life made inconceivably hard that they must grovel for scraps.
"It didn't sound like these women did much to help themselves"
- you have absolutely no way of knowing that. Common experience for the disabled indicates exactly the opposite.
This is ridiculous.
I won't point out the absolute lack of a soul you and your truly whining compatriots on this thread are showing to the world, but I ask you one favor.
Please print out and save this thread somewhere, and at some time in the future, when your now-perfect body starts betraying you (as it inevitably will), and look back on how little you understood about 'this real world'
You got to be kidding? Regardless of HOW they got in their conditions they are disabled and deserve the respect of any other customer. Sound like a bigot to me.
What they chopped their own legs off to get disability payments?
Do I still have to respect them?
I think they sound like opportunistic, lawsuit-happy hucksters, who just happen to be in wheel chairs.
"It didn't sound like these women did much to help themselves"
- you have absolutely no way of knowing that. Common experience for the disabled indicates exactly the opposite.
This is ridiculous.
I won't point out the absolute lack of a soul you and your truly whining compatriots on this thread are showing to the world, but I ask you one favor.
Please print out and save this thread somewhere, and at some time in the future, when your now-perfect body starts betraying you (as it inevitably will), and look back on how little you understood about 'this real world'
Respect goes both ways.
Had these women handled the situation in an appropriate way, I'm sure they would have been accommodated.
If you read the article you would see that this lawsuit was based on two trips and neither woman spoke to a manager.
Most people don't realize that there are over 500,000 blind people in the US and very little is done in corporate environments to accommodate their needs. For example, the iPhone can never be legally adopted as a corporate communication device because it cannot be operated by blind people. Other mobile devices with "Talk" installed are quite usable since they usually have fixed buttons that the user can feel and speaker phone capabilities.
So where ever a lawyer can find a loop hole, you will probably find a lawsuit. That's just the way lawyers are.
Amazing.
"People in wheelchairs are NOT equals to people who can move on their own two feet."
- So only people with your particular set of advantages deserve access to the societal resources available to everyone else?
" Of course, someone in a wheelchair has the same political rights as anyone else"
- oh my... how magnanimous of you.
"it's not reasonable to expect an entire society to re-engineer itself to give a tiny minority the exact same access as people who aren't handicapped. "
- sorry, but that's EXACTLY what society is for... to level the playing field
"It sounds to me like these women want the world to revolve around them,'
- unlike you, who only wants it to revolve around those who already have it made. Fairness, after all is so inconvenient.
"how about asking any customer or store employee to push the button for you.."
- yes, we should make sure we remind people who've already had their life made inconceivably hard that they must grovel for scraps.
"It didn't sound like these women did much to help themselves"
- you have absolutely no way of knowing that. Common experience for the disabled indicates exactly the opposite.
This is ridiculous.
I won't point out the absolute lack of a soul you and your truly whining compatriots on this thread are showing to the world, but I ask you one favor.
Please print out and save this thread somewhere, and at some time in the future, when your now-perfect body starts betraying you (as it inevitably will), and look back on how little you understood about 'this real world'
Blah blah blah. Your whole dumb argument could be summed up with your inane statement that society is primarily here to "level the playing field." Since when? Maybe in your own Communist-Pinko little fantasy-land, but not here in America, and not in the vast majority of other countries as well. Society is here to provide for common defense, and for **getting ahead** by mutual collaboration. Humans didn't form societies with the primary goal of elevating the poor, the sick, the lazy, what have you. Those people can often be helped by great societies, but putting the less-capable people on the same even ground as the more capable people has never been "Job One" so to speak. If you disagree, then name a few societies that have been organized around your principal? The Egyptian? The Greek? The Etruscan? The Roman? The Han? The Carolingian? The Aztec? The Mayan? The Ming? The Zulu? The various French Republics? The Ottoman? The Mongol? The English? The German? The American? Please name them.
Speaking of America in particular, here's the preamble to our Constitution:
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
I don't think you could look at that and derive that a small minority of wheel-chair bound people must have equal physical access to all that non-handicapped people enjoy, regardless of expense.
I don't think you could look at that and derive that a small minority of wheel-chair bound people must have equal physical access to all that non-handicapped people enjoy, regardless of expense.
Without the disability act and handicapped parking spaces, where would arrogant people park their luxury cars displaying no placards?
Maybe I'll take low-height pics next time I go there with my iPhone just for a little curiosity.
That said, if the employee had to disconnect the credit card scanner to bring it out, I wonder why one of the employees couldn't just be handed the credit card, or use one of the quick buy portable scanners they have on hand. ....probably because they were too busy helping other customers.
Blah blah blah.
Speaking of America in particular, here's the preamble to our Constitution:
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Good god... you didn't even read your own post.
"Promote the general welfare".
But that part always gets ignored, doesn't it? Maybe it only means the welfare of the 'haves'.
But I've said my piece. As I said... at some point you'll get why we watch each other's back. It doesn't occur to Randian types that their 'success' was to an enormous degree due to luck of the draw. FIGMO, huh?
Too bad all of those various minority types make it so hard for those of us who already have.
Without the disability act and handicapped parking spaces, where would arrogant people park their luxury cars displaying no placards?
I happen to think handicapped parking spaces are a great idea, and a perfect example of what society can do--within reason--to make life easier for even a tiny minority of its citizens.
Designing complex retail operations so that every last thing is easily accessible to someone sitting in a chair is not reasonable, on the other hand.
That's the whole problem with these complaints, and handicap laws in general. People in wheelchairs are NOT equals to people who can move on their own two feet. Of course, someone in a wheelchair has the same political rights as anyone else, but they clearly DO NO have equal physical skills or abilities as someone who can walk, and it's not reasonable to expect an entire society to re-engineer itself to give a tiny minority the exact same access as people who aren't handicapped.
It sounds to me like these women want the world to revolve around them, instead of doing reasonable work given that they're the ones in the tiny minority. Can't reach an elevator button? Instead of asking for the elevator to be redesigned, how about asking any customer or store employee to push the button for you. Need to tell the staff that you're there for your appointment? Then raise your hand, and say in a clear voice: "Excuse me, I need to check in."
It didn't sound like these women did much to help themselves, but expected Apple to simply anticipate their every specialized need. Also, It didn't sound like they ever spoke to a store manager, who could have addressed a lot of their issues. Perhaps they felt they shouldn't have to...
Maybe they expect a little common courtesy? If you run a store and want to sell stuff, you'd expect someone to actually help sell you stuff?
Like a couple of other people mentioned in this thread, there seems to be alot of assumptions made in this thread. Who cares how they got in a wheelchair! It's not our role to judge and it doesn't matter in this case. Maybe they're victims of 9/11 or east coast quake. Maybe they're war vets. Would that change your thinking?
Why aren't elevator buttons at the correct height? This is a brand new store. Why didn't some customer offer to help them find something? It looks to me like they just need to have procedures reviewed in some cases.
What they chopped their own legs off to get disability payments?
Do I still have to respect them?
I think they sound like opportunistic, lawsuit-happy hucksters, who just happen to be in wheel chairs.
Even the most opportunistic person out there would not chop off their own legs just to get a disability check.
Also, the statement comes from a lawyer, so don't mistake what they would say versus their lawyer's statement.
First Class company has far as I am concerned in their attitute toward the Disabled!
Thanks,
Alan
[email protected]
P.S. - Apple is welcome to contact me about this if I can be helpful to them.
Good god... you didn't even read your own post.
"Promote the general welfare".
But that part always gets ignored, doesn't it? Maybe it only means the welfare of the 'haves'.
No, I read my post, but clearly you didn't read your dictionary. What's the definition of "general", GQB? Take a look at your Dashboard dictionary, and you'll see:
"Affecting or concerning all or most people, places or things. Widespread.....true for all or most cases....Considering or including the main features or elements of something, and disregarding exceptions overall."
You could not possibly argue that accommodating the needs/demands of these women falls under "general welfare" in a country that consists of more than 300 million people, the vast vast majority of whom can walk.
I am disabled, and Apple has ALWAYS helped me when needed at their stores. They have walked across a large mall to help load my purchases in my car and always treated me with respect.
First Class company has far as I am concerned in their attitute toward the Disabled!
Thanks,
Alan
[email protected]
P.S. - Apple is welcome to contact me about this if I can be helpful to them.
By any chance, are your experiences gained by less busy Apple Stores? The San Francisco Stockton one is huge, and if I remember correctly, this is where Steve Jobs announced the iPod Shuffle and Mac Mini back in 2005. While I don't believe for a second that Apple is anti-disabled, it is just about fact that the Stockton location isn't very disabled friendly.
For any San Francisco people, I recommend they just visit the Stonestown location for all their Apple Store needs.
Depending on where she is on the treatment plan (today finishing up #6 of 10 rounds) she is walking somewhat normally, using a cain or a wheelchair. Fortunately she's near normal this month.
For her, and a great many others, the ADA has been a blessing. It has been abused by lawyers looking for some fast cash, but the basic concept of reasonable accommodation is important in this country - or any other.
In Apple's case I'm assuming that staff training focused on the technical side, with little or no attention paid to the staff's side of reasonable accommodation. That's assuming that the stores were not so busy that everyone had to wait for service. I would assume that Apple will be adding some training in the area of helping the handicapped if there is any validity to these suits.
By the way, for those that think "handicapped" is a crock, understand that you are nor immune to joining the ranks. With leukemia it only takes ONE white cell to fully mature and you are off to the races. A drunk driver can add you to this population in a flash, as can a wide range of other situations.
In other words, grow up, be very grateful you are not in a wheel chair and have a bit of understanding (if possible) for those that are.
Blah blah blah. Your whole dumb argument could be summed up with your inane statement that society is primarily here to "level the playing field." Since when? Maybe in your own Communist-Pinko little fantasy-land, but not here in America, and not in the vast majority of other countries as well. Society is here to provide for common defense, and for **getting ahead** by mutual collaboration. Humans didn't form societies with the primary goal of elevating the poor, the sick, the lazy, what have you. Those people can often be helped by great societies, but putting the less-capable people on the same even ground as the more capable people has never been "Job One" so to speak. If you disagree, then name a few societies that have been organized around your principal? The Egyptian? The Greek? The Etruscan? The Roman? The Han? The Carolingian? The Aztec? The Mayan? The Ming? The Zulu? The various French Republics? The Ottoman? The Mongol? The English? The German? The American? Please name them.
Speaking of America in particular, here's the preamble to our Constitution:
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
I don't think you could look at that and derive that a small minority of wheel-chair bound people must have equal physical access to all that non-handicapped people enjoy, regardless of expense.
Society in my opinion is ever changing and there has to be a balancing act of weighing one groups needs within the whole. This is what a civil society does. When tipped too far in one direction we all will suffer. One incident in New York City back in the late 90's involved a company installing public pay toilets (kiosk) throughout Manhattan's busiest neighborhoods. This was a great idea since if you live here or have visited you will find it is impossible to find a restroom unless you are in a large store or restaurant. The Kiosk were put in place and seemed to be welcomed by everyone until a group advocating people with disabilities rights sued because there were two separate kiosk at each location one for the disabled and one for the general public. The suit demanded that all kiosk should be converted to disabled friendly. Even though for every standard kiosk a wheelchair accessible kiosk stood next to it. The company that had provided the kiosk backed out of the contract with the city and pulled the kiosk off the streets. This is an extreme case but it does show the real world financial limits on a good idea.
It's easy to say Apple is always right in all things. But these are mistakes to be corrected.
For the people who say "why should Apple bother?"--I hope you never end up needing a wheelchair.
Fear not: Apple will survive having to make these changes.