As someone mentioned, there are people who make their livings by filing disability lawsuits. The professional plaintiff in California he referred to has been barred from federal court after filing hundreds of dubious claims of disability discrimination and usually winning modest settlements. His modus operandi is to visit a place just once, note anything that can be taken issue with, such as high counters or tables, or small bathrooms, and then fit the defendant into a complaint form he perfected years ago. I am wary of these two plaintiffs partly for that reason. Their behavior sounds more like con artists casing the joint than consumers seeking service.
I am also skeptical because Apple Stores have greater clearance for wheelchairs than most retail establishments. The laptops where one uses Concierge sure look accessible to me. Those tables are the height of a desk.
If these plaintiffs came to a law firm where I worked, I would be concerned that they have so few tangible complaints about the Apple Store and that the one's they have are either doubtful or petty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by photobiker
I wouldn't jump so quickly to that conclusion. Both women seem to be legit activists fighting for the right of people with disabilities...part of at least one previous lawsuit against the City of San Francisco and several state agencies [2].
I side with Scrivener. Perhaps not "con artists" out to make a buck but "con artists" like Greenpeace out to score some quick PR by choosing Apple as a target for their "activism" just because suing Apple makes a bigger splash as opposed to someone with actual deficiencies.
Sounds doubtful or petty to me after looking around our Apple store.
I'm an architect and have worked for firms that specialize in accessibility issues for several years. Municipalities and building code officials are rarely ever liable for their review of plans. The exception may be if there was gross malfeasance during the review process. The liability is on the licensed architect stamping the documents (drawings and specifications) and the Owner.
Even in California where CalDAG is part of the building code, ADA is a civil rights legislation where the only legal remedy available is a civil suit. If this same complaint has happened in many different juridictions, in several states, the Department of Justice will bring a federal suit against a company demanding compliance across all their sites. I've seen this process first hand and it isn't pretty for either side. It can take a long time to reach conclusion; usually, the damage awards are minimal--with most of it going to the attorneys.
I agree with others here that the store was probably designed as ADA compliant but that Apple has been less than accommodating in the management of their store.
OK. I guess you'll give up your automobile. Oh. Your computer, too. All that heavy industrial machinery that's used to build your infrastructure? Bye bye. Umm... Guess you don't want your iPod, iMac, or iPhone.
Then, the U.S. can start cancelling all that foreign aid, even to U.S.-hating governments and world organizations. (Hey, they don't hate us when we give 'em billions of dollars!) The U.S. could do a lot to drive down our national debt by ceasing all the cash handouts we pass around the world.
MurphyWeb: Typical sheer leftist, American-hating ignorance. Take a look at what America gives to the rest of the world and please tell me which country even comes close to doing for other foreign nations what America has done in its 200+ year history.
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Not sure what your trying to say here. The Europeans contributed just as much to the automobile as the Americans, if, if not more. There would have been automobiles without the Americans. And the Americans seem consider European cars more luxurious than American cars.
I'm not saying that the US hasn't contributed something to the World, but I wouldn't saying anyone has contributed more than any other.
And while iPods, iMacs, and iPhones, may have been designed in the US, they are made with affordable labour and parts from China.
Totaly !
ranum You just got to read some more.
and try to open your eyes a bit.
I do not hate USA .. but you are so isolated.. by yourselves .. and you have absolutely ( again tho most of you) no desire of any kind to explore whats outside . just because you do not have to .. which i partly understand.
I use a wheelchair (and crutches, sometimes) and have been in the Apple stores in both Everett and Bellevue, WA, and have never had any problems. I agree that if you're having the type of difficulties described in the lawsuit, you should simply contact the manager.
I was once in a Fred Meyer store in Bothell, WA, and couldn't reach the dress shirts because the aisles were too narrow for the store's electric cart. I informed the manager. "Sorry," he replied, walking off. When I returned to the customer service counter, I found that someone had removed the crutches I had left there. The store manager refused to open the pharmacy (this was at about 8 p.m.) so I could buy a pair of crutches from him -- or even help me out to my car.
I drove the electric cart out to my car, drove across the street to a Walgreens, crawled to the back of my car to retrieve my wheelchair, went inside, and bought some crutches.
Now, there's a company (Fred Meyer) that needs to be sued for ignoring the rights of people with disabilities.
Having worked in a store with a pharmacy, I know that a store manager cannot open it after the pharmacist is gone... legal issues having to do with controlled substances
I love it when a thread evolves through various topics, say from reasonable access for persons with disabilities, then to obesity (for some unknown reason), and then into questioning the level of retardation in another poster. For seasoning, you even get a small dose of "what's the meaning of the word 'ignore'?"
Or maybe that's 'devolves'.
It's entertaining either way!
i just wanted to say that, i have created a new folder on my desktop!
Comments
As someone mentioned, there are people who make their livings by filing disability lawsuits. The professional plaintiff in California he referred to has been barred from federal court after filing hundreds of dubious claims of disability discrimination and usually winning modest settlements. His modus operandi is to visit a place just once, note anything that can be taken issue with, such as high counters or tables, or small bathrooms, and then fit the defendant into a complaint form he perfected years ago. I am wary of these two plaintiffs partly for that reason. Their behavior sounds more like con artists casing the joint than consumers seeking service.
I am also skeptical because Apple Stores have greater clearance for wheelchairs than most retail establishments. The laptops where one uses Concierge sure look accessible to me. Those tables are the height of a desk.
If these plaintiffs came to a law firm where I worked, I would be concerned that they have so few tangible complaints about the Apple Store and that the one's they have are either doubtful or petty.
I wouldn't jump so quickly to that conclusion. Both women seem to be legit activists fighting for the right of people with disabilities...part of at least one previous lawsuit against the City of San Francisco and several state agencies [2].
I side with Scrivener. Perhaps not "con artists" out to make a buck but "con artists" like Greenpeace out to score some quick PR by choosing Apple as a target for their "activism" just because suing Apple makes a bigger splash as opposed to someone with actual deficiencies.
Sounds doubtful or petty to me after looking around our Apple store.
Vinea
Even in California where CalDAG is part of the building code, ADA is a civil rights legislation where the only legal remedy available is a civil suit. If this same complaint has happened in many different juridictions, in several states, the Department of Justice will bring a federal suit against a company demanding compliance across all their sites. I've seen this process first hand and it isn't pretty for either side. It can take a long time to reach conclusion; usually, the damage awards are minimal--with most of it going to the attorneys.
I agree with others here that the store was probably designed as ADA compliant but that Apple has been less than accommodating in the management of their store.
.
LAFE
That's what i'm talking about. This "do not disturb my privacy" thing.
As if everything has to be certified ,..proofed by the appropriate authorities ...
seen on tv ,stamped,stacked It has to bare at least 12 years and 5 more in a University just to be ABLE to stand at your front door !?!??!
PLEEASE if 500 y. ago NOTHING was certified .. can anyone tell me how dit we make it so far !>!?
All i'm saying is ... shit happens , no special furniture in the beloved store .. well ASK may be you could meet a better service ..
OK. I guess you'll give up your automobile. Oh. Your computer, too. All that heavy industrial machinery that's used to build your infrastructure? Bye bye. Umm... Guess you don't want your iPod, iMac, or iPhone.
Then, the U.S. can start cancelling all that foreign aid, even to U.S.-hating governments and world organizations. (Hey, they don't hate us when we give 'em billions of dollars!) The U.S. could do a lot to drive down our national debt by ceasing all the cash handouts we pass around the world.
MurphyWeb: Typical sheer leftist, American-hating ignorance. Take a look at what America gives to the rest of the world and please tell me which country even comes close to doing for other foreign nations what America has done in its 200+ year history.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
Not sure what your trying to say here. The Europeans contributed just as much to the automobile as the Americans, if, if not more. There would have been automobiles without the Americans. And the Americans seem consider European cars more luxurious than American cars.
http://inventors.about.com/library/w...carssteama.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile'
I'm not saying that the US hasn't contributed something to the World, but I wouldn't saying anyone has contributed more than any other.
And while iPods, iMacs, and iPhones, may have been designed in the US, they are made with affordable labour and parts from China.
Totaly !
ranum You just got to read some more.
and try to open your eyes a bit.
I use a wheelchair (and crutches, sometimes) and have been in the Apple stores in both Everett and Bellevue, WA, and have never had any problems. I agree that if you're having the type of difficulties described in the lawsuit, you should simply contact the manager.
I was once in a Fred Meyer store in Bothell, WA, and couldn't reach the dress shirts because the aisles were too narrow for the store's electric cart. I informed the manager. "Sorry," he replied, walking off. When I returned to the customer service counter, I found that someone had removed the crutches I had left there. The store manager refused to open the pharmacy (this was at about 8 p.m.) so I could buy a pair of crutches from him -- or even help me out to my car.
I drove the electric cart out to my car, drove across the street to a Walgreens, crawled to the back of my car to retrieve my wheelchair, went inside, and bought some crutches.
Now, there's a company (Fred Meyer) that needs to be sued for ignoring the rights of people with disabilities.
Having worked in a store with a pharmacy, I know that a store manager cannot open it after the pharmacist is gone... legal issues having to do with controlled substances
I love it when a thread evolves through various topics, say from reasonable access for persons with disabilities, then to obesity (for some unknown reason), and then into questioning the level of retardation in another poster. For seasoning, you even get a small dose of "what's the meaning of the word 'ignore'?"
Or maybe that's 'devolves'.
It's entertaining either way!
i just wanted to say that, i have created a new folder on my desktop!
(just to evolve the thread a little bit more
i just wanted to say that, i have created a new folder on my desktop!
(just to evolve the thread a little bit more
I can't stand messy, cluttered desktops!
You shouldn't be allowed to use a Mac.
* People with disabilities, nationwide: 54,000,000
* People with severe disabilities, nationwide: 26,000,000
* Percent of Americans under age 22 with a severe disability: 1.7
* Percent of Americans over age 80 with a severe disability: 53.5
Percent of children between the ages of 6 and 14 with a learning disability: 4.5
* Percent of children 2 years or younger with a developmental disability: 2.6
(Source: Census Bureau)
* Percentage by which the population of people with disabilities under age 18 increased between 1983 and 1994: 47.9
* Percentage by which the population of people with disabilities over age 65 increased between 1983 and 1994: 13.9
(Source: National Institute for Disability and Rehabilitation Research)
* Percentage of parents with no disabilities whose spouse has a disability: 8
* Percentage of parents with disabilities whose spouse has a disability: 27
(Source: Chartbook on Women and Disability in the United States)
* Percentage of people between ages 65 and 69 with a disability: 43.4
* Between ages 70-74: 46.0
* Between ages 75-84: 63.7
* Percentage of people over age 85 with a disability: 84.2
(Source: Chartbook on Disability in the United States)
* Percent of all disabling conditions caused by injury: 13.4
* Percent of people with disabilities with musculoskeletal impairments: 17.2
* Percent of people with disabilities with circulatory disorders: 16.7
* Percent of people with disabilities with orthopedic impairments: 14.1
* Percent of people with disabilities with mental impairments: 3.3
Percent of people with disabilities with visual impairments: 2.1
* Percent of people with disabilities with hearing impairments: 1.9
(Source: Disability Statistics Center, University of California-San Francisco)
* Percent of children and adults with disabilities who have learning disabilities, respectively: 29.5, 0.6
* Percent with speech problems: 13.1, 0.4
* Percent with mental retardation: 6.8, 1.2
* Percent with mental illness: 6.3, 1.9
* Percent with back injuries: 2.5, 13.5
* Percent with heart disease: 0.9, 11.1
* Percent with asthma: 6.8, 6.4
* Percent with addiction to drugs or alcohol: 1.0, 0.7
* Percent with arthritis: less than 1%, 17.1
(Source: Centers for Disease Control)
* Mean age of all Americans: 35.4
* Mean age of all Americans with disabilities: 43
* Mean age of all Americans with severe disabilities: 45.5
(Source: Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics)