College Courses and AP Credit

13

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  • Reply 41 of 69
    I know...this is probably not the forum for this but, I just bought the new 24" iMac on the weekend. The problem is that I need to wipe out the hard drive on my existing PC, running XP.

    On old systems, you could format the C drive, but, I can't find out how to do that with XP.

    Does anyone have an idea?

    Thanks for help.
  • Reply 42 of 69
    shadowshadow Posts: 373member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacWannaBe View Post


    I know...this is probably not the forum for this but, I just bought the new 24" iMac on the weekend. The problem is that I need to wipe out the hard drive on my existing PC, running XP.

    On old systems, you could format the C drive, but, I can't find out how to do that with XP.

    Does anyone have an idea?

    Thanks for help.



    Yeah, not the right forum. Boot from the Windows install CD. When prompted to repair the Windows installation select install, not repair. When prompted to select the target partition you will have the option to repartition the drive (delete the current partition and create a new one). Repartition, reformat the newly created partition. Then cancel the installation.
  • Reply 43 of 69
    sequitursequitur Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacWannaBe View Post


    I know...this is probably not the forum for this but, I just bought the new 24" iMac on the weekend. The problem is that I need to wipe out the hard drive on my existing PC, running XP.

    On old systems, you could format the C drive, but, I can't find out how to do that with XP.

    Does anyone have an idea?

    Thanks for help.



    If you don't get an answer that works, take the HDD out and replace it with a new one. Depending on whether you're going to sell the PC or not, you can find some very inexpensive HDD's out there. Are you aware that even with deleting and overriding, someone who REALLY wants to access the HDD can? If you have financial info, passwords, pin numbers, etc., better be safe than sorry. I've heard of crackers buying used computers online just to get the HDD and dig down for financial info. A legitimate buyer might be happier with a new HDD anyway. If your PC is quite a few years old, it probably hasn't got a large HDD. One the same size now would be cheaper.



    Next, read the replies to this post. They'll give you many reasons that my advice is wrong. Take your pick.

    Gentlemen, start your (flaming) engines.
  • Reply 44 of 69
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,737member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sequitur View Post


    Are you aware that even with deleting and overriding, someone who REALLY wants to access the HDD can?



    This isn't accurate. Writing over the data once (with zeros, ones or something random, it doesn't matter) is enough.



    There is no documented evidence of people retrieving any significant amount of data from an HDD that has been overwritten. It may be theoretically possible, but it would require fantastically expensive equipment (we're talking millions of dollars) and an enormous amount of time. No one is going to do that to steal some random joe's bank details.



    That being said, if you just delete but do not write over, files are easily recoverable. I believe if you use the Windows install disc and choose to do a "full" format rather than a quick one, the drive will be completely over-written.
  • Reply 45 of 69
    sequitursequitur Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    This isn't accurate. Writing over the data once (with zeros, ones or something random, it doesn't matter) is enough.



    There is no documented evidence of people retrieving any significant amount of data from an HDD that has been overwritten. It may be theoretically possible, but it would require fantastically expensive equipment (we're talking millions of dollars) and an enormous amount of time. No one is going to do that to steal some random joe's bank details.



    That being said, if you just delete but do not write over, files are easily recoverable. I believe if you use the Windows install disc and choose to do a "full" format rather than a quick one, the drive will be completely over-written.



    I recall reading that a Mac can overwrite a HDD many times. Why the overkill if the HDD is so difficult to access?
  • Reply 46 of 69
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,737member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sequitur View Post


    I recall reading that a Mac can overwrite a HDD many times. Why the overkill if the HDD is so difficult to access?



    Because some people/organisations are extremely paranoid. I guess the thinking goes that just because no-one's done it yet, doesn't mean someone determined can't do it in the future. Some organisations stipulate that data must be overwritten a minimum of 7 times, some have policies that state that media containing the most sensitive information should be physically destroyed!



    For the normal consumer, over-writing once is enough.
  • Reply 47 of 69
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,737member
    Just thought I should provide some evidence that I haven't pulled the content of the last couple of posts straight out of my bottom:



    Is overwritten data recoverable?
  • Reply 48 of 69
    sequitursequitur Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    Because some people/organisations are extremely paranoid. I guess the thinking goes that just because no-one's done it yet, doesn't mean someone determined can't do it in the future. Some organisations stipulate that data must be overwritten a minimum of 7 times, some have policies that state that media containing the most sensitive information should be physically destroyed!



    For the normal consumer, over-writing once is enough.



    You're right. Prior to reading your last post, I googled the following info:



    Many of the articles you would find say to destroy your hard drive with a hammer because there is no safe way to completely erase the information stored on it. This myth is absolutely false.

    How Many Overwrites Do I Need?



    So how many overwrite passes do you need? One. Data is so incredibly difficult to recover after being overwritten that even people with electron microscopes, advanced statistical tools, and specialized programming skills are not going to be able to recover data from your drive. It just isn't going to happen. You can search the Internet for examples where overwritten data were recovered and you will not find even one event where a person recovered more than a couple of bits of a byte.



    So the paranoid can rest easy. They can follow the Department of Defense standards to help them sleep better at night, but one overwrite is enough to protect your data from being recovered.



    Can you safely donate or sell an old computer without the risk of having your data stolen? The answer is yes, if you use WipeDrive to completely erase the computer before you let it leave your possession.

    ----------

    I'm always telling correspondents to check Snopes.com before believing some 'urban myth' and I find out I've been believing one for years.

    The above article is apparently pushing a product called WipeDrive; however, there are most likely many other methods.



    So Macwannabee, try Shadow's method.
  • Reply 49 of 69
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,802member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Duddits View Post


    Not flattering at all, just simple math. Any student with 2 years of solid performance in AP classes may use those against a year of college that will accept them. Taking an extra course or so a semester could further accelerate graduation. however, I would imagine that most students who can do this don't, and for good reason. The point is not to graduate early, but to learn stuff and have a good college experience. But if your goal was to graduate early, and you racked up years of APs, it's not that big of a deal.



    As for treating everyone as equal, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Any student with a boatload of AP credits is equally entitled to accelerate graduation in colleges that honor them. That's just the system, and has nothing to do with how anyone treats anyone else.



    Personally, I don't care whether someone has a million AP credits or works in McDonalds. I take each post as it comes and from whatever source. And of course they're not equal. Everyone is different and every post is different. That someone happens to be swimming in AP credits or, for that matter, is a cat, should have no bearing on what they have to say. All that matters is what posters actually post, and that's I respond to:



    No pig more equal than any other, but each post judged on its own merits.





    Those are two reasons for community colleges, but those are not the only two. There are many other as well.



    You're overdoing it here.



    It seems as though neither of you fully understands what is happening.
  • Reply 50 of 69
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,802member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    This isn't accurate. Writing over the data once (with zeros, ones or something random, it doesn't matter) is enough.



    There is no documented evidence of people retrieving any significant amount of data from an HDD that has been overwritten. It may be theoretically possible, but it would require fantastically expensive equipment (we're talking millions of dollars) and an enormous amount of time. No one is going to do that to steal some random joe's bank details.



    That being said, if you just delete but do not write over, files are easily recoverable. I believe if you use the Windows install disc and choose to do a "full" format rather than a quick one, the drive will be completely over-written.



    It takes 7 passes to ensure a total randomizing of the date.



    There is residual magnetism left after several erasures. Erasure occurs mostly at the surface of the magnetic emulsion. further down, there is still signal from older data. This is because the coercivity of the magnetic particles is high enough so that the erasure from a single pass doesn't have enough energy to totally randomize them.



    Continued erasure, or re-recording will eventually do so.



    It does take special equipment to read through the higher layers, and special software to make sure that what is being read is data and not noise. It also take experienced people to make sense of what comes up, as there can be some detective and cryptographic work needed.
  • Reply 51 of 69
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,802member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    Just thought I should provide some evidence that I haven't pulled the content of the last couple of posts straight out of my bottom:



    Is overwritten data recoverable?



    That's certainly interesting, but not current, or entirely accurate.



    As far as audio tape goes, I have recovered information from erased tapes. It couldn't be done in the '60's, but has been done since the late '80's. Unfortunately, tape demagnetizes itself over time, which is a well known phenomena. Any erased tapes from the '60's would have been impossible to recover 10 or more years later, well before the more sensitive processes appeared.
  • Reply 52 of 69
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,737member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    It takes 7 passes to ensure a total randomizing of the date.



    There is residual magnetism left after several erasures. Erasure occurs mostly at the surface of the magnetic emulsion. further down, there is still signal from older data. This is because the coercivity of the magnetic particles is high enough so that the erasure from a single pass doesn't have enough energy to totally randomize them.



    Continued erasure, or re-recording will eventually do so.



    It does take special equipment to read through the higher layers, and special software to make sure that what is being read is data and not noise. It also take experienced people to make sense of what comes up, as there can be some detective and cryptographic work needed.



    Evidence please.



    Don't forget that what was written to the disc before the file you are overwriting has just as much of an effect of randomising the magnetic poles as the data you use to overwrite the file.



    I do not believe that it would be possible to recover significant amounts of data (i.e. more than a few bits) using the methods you describe without previous knowledge of what was on the disc.



    i.e., I wouldn't be surprised if someone has written "data pattern A" to a disc, then "data pattern B", and then had a look to see if they can then detect any remnant of "data pattern A" and found that they could. However, that is very different from being given an HDD you've never seen before, that's had e.g. "data pattern C", "data pattern D", "data pattern E", "data pattern F", and then overwritten with all zeros, and being able to extract "data pattern F" from the drive. You seem to be suggesting that "data pattern C" will be on some kind of "bottom layer", with subsequent data patterns on top, so with enough resolution you'll be able to detect whichever pattern you like. It doesn't work like that. each previous data pattern will leave the odd remnant here or there, but these will all interfere with each other.
  • Reply 53 of 69
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,802member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    Evidence please.



    Don't forget that what was written to the disc before the file you are overwriting has just as much of an effect of randomising the magnetic poles as the data you use to overwrite the file.



    I do not believe that it would be possible to recover significant amounts of data (i.e. more than a few bits) using the methods you describe without previous knowledge of what was on the disc.



    i.e., I wouldn't be surprised if someone has written "data pattern A" to a disc, then "data pattern B", and then had a look to see if they can then detect any remnant of "data pattern A" and found that they could. However, that is very different from being given an HDD you've never seen before, that's had e.g. "data pattern C", "data pattern D", "data pattern E", "data pattern F", and then overwritten with all zeros, and being able to extract "data pattern F" from the drive. You seem to be suggesting that "data pattern C" will be on some kind of "bottom layer", with subsequent data patterns on top, so with enough resolution you'll be able to detect whichever pattern you like. It doesn't work like that. each previous data pattern will leave the odd remnant here or there, but these will all interfere with each other.



    It is complex, and I admit that right now, at least, I can't give you a program, or possibly something commercial that can do this, but it can be done.



    even modern disks have a magnetic layer that is several particles thick. The way magnetization works on most devices, is that the bottommost particles are rarely erased with one pass.



    On tape, for instance, something I'm very familiar with, you need a bulk eraser to hope to totally erase what's on the tape completely. This is well known, and I'm surprised the article you linked to didn't have a clue about it. I have several of these devices here, though I don't do that anymore.



    Even bulk erasers need more than one pass with high coercivity tapes, such as metal, and some others.



    The magnetic fields from these erasers are far more powerful than the ones the drives, or tape decks themselves have.



    Anyway, it's not likely we will be able to recover this info anytime soon ourselves.



    My opinion is that you do need to zero out the bits at least, for most others who might try to get your info.



    But, if you truly want to get rid of it, a security erase is better.
  • Reply 54 of 69
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    You're overdoing it here.



    It seems as though neither of you fully understands what is happening.



    Then please explain. This time actually making valid arguments in response to our position.
  • Reply 55 of 69
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,802member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bobmarksdale View Post


    Then please explain. This time actually making valid arguments in response to our position.



    My arguments are at least as valid as yours are. Making that comment doesn't make your points any more correct.



    What's happening is that we are looking at this from different perspectives. Do you have a child in HS now? I do. I do work in the school system here in NYC, though not as a paid position. I work on the technical and computer plans, and do work in my daughters school, which is a "special" HS within the system. Doing that, I sit on several committees, one of which is called the School Leadership Team (SLT).



    There, we make decisions that affect the performance of the school in various ways, such as hiring department heads, assistant principals, and, if needed, the principal.



    I've been doing this work since my daughter was in kindergarden. She is now a junior.



    One thing we do, is work with our college admissions office. In the slightly over two years I've been at this HS, I've spoken with a fair number of admissions personnel from various universities. We've also discussed this in our meetings.



    As I've been saying, these personnel have been stating that they do not consider AP courses, even with good grades in the tests, to be more than an indicator of what the student is capable of. A few will consider giving credit for a specific course if they feel that their own course offers no more than the AP course. But, many don't.



    The schools, particularly the better ones, are very jealous of their own admissions policies and requirements. Many are concerned that allowing a HS course, even if it is an AP course of known superior quality, will damage their own reputations.



    Say what you will about that, but this is a problem for those hoping to not have to take that course at the university level.



    As far as the HS average goes, AP courses have, in most schools, been given a rating of 110%. So that if one achieved a 90% in AP, they would receive a 99% as a grade, which would then be averaged in as any other grade, thus bringing the overall point average up. Again, many, if not most schools, are now disallowing that as well. They strip the 10% off, and average the remainder back into the average.



    As far as the tests are concerned. We've also been told by a number of admissions officers, that they have a concern that those grades are not up to what they would expect their own students to achieve.



    Again, we're being told that a fair number of AP students are not doing as well in a subject as those who take the course in the university itself.



    One reason for this is apparently that they feel the teaching styles between the HS and the college level are too different. This affects the student taking more advanced courses with this more sparse teaching style, without getting used to being more on their own in a more preparatory course.



    Another reason given, is that it is felt that the student is more reliant on the parents at the HS level, and so the AP course doesn't reflect the activity the student would actually be having at their institution. This is particularly true for those who will have their students dorm, rather than live at home.



    There is more, but just how much you want to read, I don't know. But, this should give a good idea of what I'm saying.



    Look, if we will continue to disagree, then there will be no point. But, I'm going through these issues now, so I see them right in front of me. It's not theoretical.



    As far as the discussion over Community Colleges go, it's how you want to look at it. I think that we agree more than we disagree, but are having semantic issues that are keeping us apart.
  • Reply 56 of 69
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    One reason for this is apparently that they feel the teaching styles between the HS and the college level are too different. This affects the student taking more advanced courses with this more sparse teaching style, without getting used to being more on their own in a more preparatory course.



    Another reason given, is that it is felt that the student is more reliant on the parents at the HS level, and so the AP course doesn't reflect the activity the student would actually be having at their institution. This is particularly true for those who will have their students dorm, rather than live at home.



    A third reason is that some of the courses (like Physics and Calculus/math) go in sequence in colleges (ex: Berkeley), one needing the other, and AP courses can put a student "out of sequence." Example -- a 5 quarter physics series 5a-e generally needs a five part math sequence (calculus classes and differential equations and whatever that last one is that I forget). AP used to opt students out of 5a & 5c of the physics sequence which got the student behind in math... which led to problems.
  • Reply 57 of 69
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,802member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post


    A third reason is that some of the courses (like Physics and Calculus/math) go in sequence in colleges (ex: Berkeley), one needing the other, and AP courses can put a student "out of sequence." Example -- a 5 quarter physics series 5a-e generally needs a five part math sequence (calculus classes and differential equations and whatever that last one is that I forget). AP used to opt students out of 5a & 5c of the physics sequence which got the student behind in math... which led to problems.



    Yes, that's another good point.
  • Reply 58 of 69
    Has anyone seen a teardown of the 24" Al iMac posted? I've only seen 20".
  • Reply 59 of 69
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    As far as the HS average goes, AP courses have, in most schools, been given a rating of 110%. So that if one achieved a 90% in AP, they would receive a 99% as a grade, which would then be averaged in as any other grade, thus bringing the overall point average up. Again, many, if not most schools, are now disallowing that as well. They strip the 10% off, and average the remainder back into the average.



    Then you have been advising your daughter to not take AP classes and go to a second tier HS?



    Which is actually my intended strategy. Go to the 3rd ranking school in the district and not have my kids attend AP or "hard" classes but 2nd tier classes for easy A's. Try to do REALLY well in the PSATs. Game the system to try to get them into HYP. Okay Stanford and MIT are okay too...and Cambridge and Oxford.



    If not one of these seven then advise them to find the biggest party school and join a frat/sorority.
  • Reply 60 of 69
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,802member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Then you have been advising your daughter to not take AP classes and go to a second tier HS?



    Which is actually my intended strategy. Go to the 3rd ranking school in the district and not have my kids attend AP or "hard" classes but 2nd tier classes for easy A's. Try to do REALLY well in the PSATs. Game the system to try to get them into HYP. Okay Stanford and MIT are okay too...and Cambridge and Oxford.



    If not one of these seven then advise them to find the biggest party school and join a frat/sorority.



    You are not too bright, are you?



    Since you're only goal in life seems to be bothering me, you obviously have little else to do.



    Were you fired?
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