So for 269 Sterling you get an iPod touch that is also a phone with email possibilities that syncs perfectly with your Mac.
Sounds good to me! Considering that EVERYTHING is more expensive in the UK.
And for the lack of 3G, you get many free Wifi spots all over the country... much faster than 3G and much cheaper too.
And for those who prefer to get a free Nokia N95, great! Just add the iPod touch to your price comparison and all the hassle to sync 2 devices.. if you manage to sync that N95 at all.
And the N95 has a 5 MP camera... Wow, your photos will look so much better....... actually, they wont... amounts of MP is not important for quality.. it's the lens that makes photos good or bad... not that the iPhone lens is that great, but he.. it's a phone, not a camera!
And GPS in your phone, instead of Google maps... ok, for those that need a GPS on their phone I suppose it is a good thing... for those who need and want it...
This is a good deal for people in The City (London's financial district) which is covered in wifi provided by The Cloud. It's also the first unlimited data package in the UK.
This is a good deal for people in The City (London's financial district) which is covered in wifi provided by The Cloud. It's also the first unlimited data package in the UK.
Unfortunately pretty darn useless for some of us in the UK .... I'm in Northern Ireland and there is NOT ONE Cloud hotspot. Hey I guess that means we'll see a reduction in our O2 monthly subscription then... NOT!
Why does everyone nention the N95 like it's the gold standard? Is it that good?
Yes I was thinking the same thing. Does it really do all of the things well? As you add more features makes it difficult to do any one of them well. Or it does one or two features really well at the sacrifice of others.
I'm confused some are saying this is a pretty good plan and some people are saying its a terrible plan. What I imagine is that those who say they have cheaper plans don't have unlimited internet. If you were to add unlimited internet to your cheaper plan would it still be cheaper than the iPhone plans?
The 30% coverage of EDGE should improve pretty quickly. From what I've read its only a software upgrade for O2 and not a heavy hardware upgrade. So by November the situation should be very different from today.
We don't get any official free hot spots in the US. Not even on AT&T hotspots.
Well, after waiting to see what Apple offered, I think I'm going to get an N95 (or an E90 if I can find one for a reasonable price). They suggested 3G is coming late next year, so if I get myself a twelve month contract it should be expiring just as the 3G iPhone appears.
BTW, for those who say 3G is worthless, it's currently my only net connection at home. I'm living in a rented house for two months while waiting for a purchase to complete, and installing a phone line would cost £125. For £5 I added 1GB of data to my phone plan, tethered it to my G5 with bluetooth and got it sharing over Airport for my housemates to use.
I know that's a rare case, but I doubt I'd even attempt it with EDGE -- it'd just be too slow.
I may be waiting another year or so, but I wont buy until I see 3G and 16GB of storage. I doubt I'm alone on this either.
It is always wise to wait for rev.2 for such a device anyway. If you are going to be lock into a 2 year contract you better have the best device you can get for that, period. I would not be surprise if by MWSF we will see a 16gb and 3G version. If not there by no later than March 08.
The iPhone development is happening very fast and Steve wants to sell 10 million by end of 2008, so you can bet the next revision will address most of the major issues and requests and will be a killer one.
The iPhone is fantastic, I have been very tempted to get one, but is good to wait. I am buying the iPod Touch meanwhile and then maybe selling it on eBay when the iPhone rev. 2 finally comes to life.
I'm confused some are saying this is a pretty good plan and some people are saying its a terrible plan. What I imagine is that those who say they have cheaper plans don't have unlimited internet. If you were to add unlimited internet to your cheaper plan would it still be cheaper than the iPhone plans?
Unlimited internet costs between £5 and £10 a month, depending on the network. (Unlimited seems to be 1GB fair use. If the iPhone plan offers more than 1GB, then the plans might start to look better.)
You can usually get 500 minutes for around £15-20 these days. Add on your net access and you're at around £25. There are other expensive plans, but by shopping around for whatever offers are on (and there are always offers on) you can get even better rates sometimes.
Why does everyone nention the N95 like it's the gold standard? Is it that good?
No, it's not even that good! I don't understand why everyone uses the N95 as the benchmark. I have one and it sucks! I can't wait for Nov 9th so I can ditch the Nokia.
If anyone is interested in why the N95 sucks then..
#1 - Build quality. I've never had a phone made so poorly. The whole thing creeks when I press the number pad.
#2 - Software. Nokia always used to be the kings of mobile software. I don't know what has happended over the past couple of years, but their software is so buggy now. Icons are shoddy, layout and themes are not properly thought through.
#3 - Camera. The 5MP camera is supposed to be a selling point for the N95. It's not bad for a phone, but cannot be even remotely compared to a 'proper' 5MP camera (Canon, Nikon etc). Also whenever you take a picture, the shoddy software wants you to do all kinds of things with the imave.. upload to album, send to contact... I JUST WANT TO TAKE A COUPLE OF PICS!!!!
#4 - Battery life. It's true what SJ says about 3G chipsets. Under heavy use, the battery life is quite poor.
#3 - Camera. The 5MP camera is supposed to be a selling point for the N95. It's not bad for a phone, but cannot be even remotely compared to a 'proper' 5MP camera (Canon, Nikon etc). Also whenever you take a picture, the shoddy software wants you to do all kinds of things with the imave.. upload to album, send to contact... I JUST WANT TO TAKE A COUPLE OF PICS!!!!
I don't care to get one, but I think that's odd, given the kind of camera that's on that. I would think that the N95 would at least take acceptable pictures, at least much better than you'd find on other phones. It doesn't look like an ordinary phone camera, it looks more like a phone was built around a conventional point-and-shoot. Other phones have a pin-sized lens and a pin-sized sensor.
I don't care to get one, but I think that's odd, given the kind of camera that's on that. I would think that the N95 would at least take acceptable pictures, at least much better than you'd find on other phones. It doesn't look like an ordinary phone camera, it looks more like a phone was built around a conventional point-and-shoot. Other phones have a pin-sized lens and a pin-sized sensor.
Nope, it has the same optics as the other Nokia N Series phones. They are ok for phone cameras, but so is the iPhone camera! The 5MP images size just emphasises the noise.
Why does everyone nention the N95 like it's the gold standard? Is it that good?
I've been wondering the same thing.
Does anyone know how many of these Nokia has sold -- i.e., how is it going in the marketplace? Everyone talks about it as though it is quite ubiquitous ......
Also, is it multitouch? Having now used that technology for ten weeks, I can tell you that is worth some sizable premium (which, of course, could vary from person to person).
Apologies: Just saw SpinDrift's response. Oh well, I'll leave this in anyway.....
I'm sure that $4.50 to ship from the uk to boulder, co isn't in any way subsidized by your taxes, huh?
Nope. Royal Mail was privatised years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reidconti
I love how the uk'ers here are utterly ignoring the fact that people can get free phones here in the states, too, yet some of us still elect to pay more to get what we want. Stop rehashing last January's arguments. Maybe if apple had only renamed it the iMobile..
We're ignoring it because it's totally irrelevant to the argument. The point is we can get Nokia's most expensive, most feature packed smartphone for free whereas Apple's much less capable device is £269.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tchwojko
So, Apple is betting enough people will think the iPhone is worth 269 more than an N95, much like the iPod initially commanded a premium. I'm not sure what's surprising here?
The iPod when it was released was only a bit more expensive than the competition and the competition wasn't very good, to be more than kind. That's not like Apple v Nokia or Sony Ericsson today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tchwojko
More features != better. Apple has always been about carefully choosing fewer features and implementing them so they are utterly painless to use. (They don't always succeed, but they have a pretty good percentage in their favor.)
I agree entirely. But they've chosen to only implement a very small subset of features well in the iPhone's case missing out features we expect in Europe in an expensive phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tchwojko
None of that is to say the iPhone will succeed, but I bet it's not doomed either.
I think it'll do ok too but I'm pretty sure that's based on it's brand image not it's price, features or ease of use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S10
So for 269 Sterling you get an iPod touch that is also a phone with email possibilities that syncs perfectly with your Mac.
Sounds good to me! Considering that EVERYTHING is more expensive in the UK.
Everything ISN'T more expensive in the UK. Healthcare and Education to name two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S10
And for the lack of 3G, you get many free Wifi spots all over the country... much faster than 3G and much cheaper too.
Not really. Both are free so there's no cost difference. The Cloud hotspots are few and far between in some areas of the country and it doesn't really help you get fast internet access on a train. Where I live, O2 3G coverage is non-existent so it's not really a dilemma I have to face - I'm stuck with standard non-EDGE GPRS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S10
And for those who prefer to get a free Nokia N95, great! Just add the iPod touch to your price comparison and all the hassle to sync 2 devices.. if you manage to sync that N95 at all.
There'd be little point. The N95 has a decent enough media player already and yes it syncs just fine. http://europe.nokia.com/mac/isync/
Quote:
Originally Posted by S10
And the N95 has a 5 MP camera... Wow, your photos will look so much better....... actually, they wont... amounts of MP is not important for quality.. it's the lens that makes photos good or bad... not that the iPhone lens is that great, but he.. it's a phone, not a camera!
The amount of MP *IS* important coupled to a good lens and a flash. Guess what, most high end Euro phones have all three.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S10
And GPS in your phone, instead of Google maps... ok, for those that need a GPS on their phone I suppose it is a good thing... for those who need and want it...
Why not. It's free. And the N95 has Google maps too. Use either with the built in GPS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eAi
This is a good deal for people in The City (London's financial district) which is covered in wifi provided by The Cloud. It's also the first unlimited data package in the UK.
I'd say this is a pretty good deal overall.
It's obviously not the first unlimited data package because there's a 1400 page 'fair use' policy in place and t-mobile have been selling 'unlimited' data packages for over a year at least. The detail in the fine print will be interesting.
I'm not sure how many MB 1400 pages equates to if that's what they're estimating. Do they really count page views? I would have thought not. You have to wonder what the 1400 pages usage translates for YouTube usage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking
Why does everyone nention the N95 like it's the gold standard? Is it that good?
It's a brick of a phone but it does do almost absolutely everything in one brick. If you want everything in one brick, it's the phone for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gugy
It is always wise to wait for rev.2 for such a device anyway. If you are going to be lock into a 2 year contract you better have the best device you can get for that, period. I would not be surprise if by MWSF we will see a 16gb and 3G version. If not there by no later than March 08.
The iPhone development is happening very fast and Steve wants to sell 10 million by end of 2008, so you can bet the next revision will address most of the major issues and requests and will be a killer one.
The iPhone is fantastic, I have been very tempted to get one, but is good to wait. I am buying the iPod Touch meanwhile and then maybe selling it on eBay when the iPhone rev. 2 finally comes to life.
The iPhone's been out a few months now and no major gripes with the hardware beyond a few phones losing touch sensitivity. It's always worth waiting a few months perhaps but so far the iPhone v1 has been ok IMHO.
There's been more issues with iPod Touch already!
After what Jobs said today I'd be very surprised to see a 3G iPhone till at least mid 2008. It's only an 18 month contract here so not a big deal. O2's future 3G coverage map is showing no more coverage for me than current so I'd guess 3G is going to be mostly irrelevant.
Only thing I'd want now is a better camera so I don't have to carry around another device.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinDrift
No, it's not even that good! I don't understand why everyone uses the N95 as the benchmark. I have one and it sucks! I can't wait for Nov 9th so I can ditch the Nokia.
It's a good example of a free phone you can sell on eBay to people who value features over Apple-ness to pay for your iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinDrift
#2 - Software. Nokia always used to be the kings of mobile software. I don't know what has happended over the past couple of years, but their software is so buggy now. Icons are shoddy, layout and themes are not properly thought through.
Symbian OS 9 happened. It was very buggy. Couple it to Nokia's S60 interface and you've a turd on your hands. S60 was always the bastard child compared to UIQ and S80 but OS 9.0 added insult to injury.
Could be worse though - See Windows Mobile or PalmOS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinDrift
#3 - Camera. The 5MP camera is supposed to be a selling point for the N95. It's not bad for a phone, but cannot be even remotely compared to a 'proper' 5MP camera (Canon, Nikon etc). Also whenever you take a picture, the shoddy software wants you to do all kinds of things with the imave.. upload to album, send to contact... I JUST WANT TO TAKE A COUPLE OF PICS!!!!
But it's also leagues better than the 2mp non-autofocus, non-flash teeny lens Apple camera and perfectly acceptable for snaps. I prefered the SE K800i's 3.2mp built in camera myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinDrift
#4 - Battery life. It's true what SJ says about 3G chipsets. Under heavy use, the battery life is quite poor.
But then if you need it, it's there, whereas you don't have that option at all with the iPhone.
It's like arguing that an ice cream with optional free hot fudge sauce isn't better than a plain ice cream, even if your ice cream melts quicker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
I don't care to get one, but I think that's odd, given the kind of camera that's on that. I would think that the N95 would at least take acceptable pictures, at least much better than you'd find on other phones. It doesn't look like an ordinary phone camera, it looks more like a phone was built around a conventional point-and-shoot. Other phones have a pin-sized lens and a pin-sized sensor.
It *IS* pretty good for a phone. I don't think it's as good as Sony's K800 3.2mp cybershot phone cameras. Even Moto's new phones are 3.2mp. Either would be fine for most people instead of a point and shoot. Go to any wedding in the UK these days and there's a dozen people with phones snapping, not cameras. It just shows up Apple's offering as being lack lustre by comparison - that's all - which the 'mp myth' fanboys don't seem to realise that there's a lower limit on quality, not just a higher limit on diminishing returns.
The point is we can get Nokia's most expensive, most feature packed smartphone for free whereas Apple's much less capable device is £269.
Feature packed means little if it isn't able to perform its features well. Really more features becomes a liability. I would prefer for features to wait until they can be used well. Without one features usability being sacrificed for some other feature.
Quote:
The amount of MP *IS* important coupled to a good lens and a flash. Guess what, most high end Euro phones have all three.
I would count lens and A/D imagine processing as the most important parts of a good picture. And there is no way a phone is going to do all of that better than a dedicated point and shoot.
Quote:
But then if you need it, it's there, whereas you don't have that option at all with the iPhone.
It's like arguing that an ice cream with optional free hot fudge sauce isn't better than a plain ice cream, even if your ice cream melts quicker.
I think one would need to assess how important is 3G. iPhone clearly has a superior UI and application design. It doesn't have 3G, but it does have WiFi and EDGE, which one is more important.
Quote:
Go to any wedding in the UK these days and there's a dozen people with phones snapping, not cameras. It just shows up Apple's offering as being lack lustre by comparison - that's all - which the 'mp myth' fanboys don't seem to realise that there's a lower limit on quality, not just a higher limit on diminishing returns.
More megapixels can add to quality. The megapix myth is saying that more mp does not necessarily add more quality. Along with mp you need to improve the lens and the A/D processing. There is only so much you can do to improve all of that on a phone. While there is more room to improve these factors on a dedicated point and shoot.
More megapixels can add to quality. The megapix myth is saying that more mp does not necessarily add more quality.
That's not the myth though, that's the truth. Megapixels does not necessarily add more quality.
The real megapixel myth is that megapixels is the sole measure of quality.
Quote:
Along with mp you need to improve the lens and the A/D processing. There is only so much you can do to improve all of that on a phone. While there is more room to improve these factors on a dedicated point and shoot.
The problem is that getting a good lens, good sensor and a good flash all take a certain minimum size, particularly depth. iPhone is about half as thick as the N95.
I am remarkably disappointed to learn that the UK is going to get the iPhone before Canada does. I'm pretty sure it's not entirely Apple making it's debut slower, i'm sure it's Rogers (the only carrier capable of supporting the iPhone in Canada). All of our wireless providers blow. Telus is scary and CDMA, Bell is less scary but also CDMA and Rogers is the only contender left. Rogers is probably crapping themselves at the fact they'd have to release an unlimited data plan that will likely make all other customers go "wtf? Then why are we getting reamed on our data plans if iPhone people get unlimited for $60/mo." and all Blackberry users who have multi-hundred dollar data bills every month will also get on the bandwagon to complain about Rogers outrageous data plans ($1/MB with some pretty serious overage charges). MEH.
Feature packed means little if it isn't able to perform its features well. Really more features becomes a liability. I would prefer for features to wait until they can be used well. Without one features usability being sacrificed for some other feature.
Sure, you can have feature overload but there's features missing or badly done already in the iPhone. eg. No video at all and who forgot the camera shutter button?
There's no reason why MMS should be missing. It's no different that email or sms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
I would count lens and A/D imagine processing as the most important parts of a good picture. And there is no way a phone is going to do all of that better than a dedicated point and shoot.
It doesn't have to be better, it just has to be 'good enough' and for many people that don't know what A/D is, many modern phones are 'good enough'.
And you're telling someone who still uses an old 3.3mp Olympus because it has lovely glass and predictable image processing.
Does anyone know how many of these Nokia has sold -- i.e., how is it going in the marketplace? Everyone talks about it as though it is quite ubiquitous ......
Sorry to "reply" to my own post.
Does anybody know (or have a vague estimate of) how many N95s have been sold?
Comments
Sounds good to me! Considering that EVERYTHING is more expensive in the UK.
And for the lack of 3G, you get many free Wifi spots all over the country... much faster than 3G and much cheaper too.
And for those who prefer to get a free Nokia N95, great! Just add the iPod touch to your price comparison and all the hassle to sync 2 devices.. if you manage to sync that N95 at all.
And the N95 has a 5 MP camera... Wow, your photos will look so much better....... actually, they wont... amounts of MP is not important for quality.. it's the lens that makes photos good or bad... not that the iPhone lens is that great, but he.. it's a phone, not a camera!
And GPS in your phone, instead of Google maps... ok, for those that need a GPS on their phone I suppose it is a good thing... for those who need and want it...
I'd say this is a pretty good deal overall.
This is a good deal for people in The City (London's financial district) which is covered in wifi provided by The Cloud. It's also the first unlimited data package in the UK.
Unfortunately pretty darn useless for some of us in the UK
Why does everyone nention the N95 like it's the gold standard? Is it that good?
Yes I was thinking the same thing. Does it really do all of the things well? As you add more features makes it difficult to do any one of them well. Or it does one or two features really well at the sacrifice of others.
I'm confused some are saying this is a pretty good plan and some people are saying its a terrible plan. What I imagine is that those who say they have cheaper plans don't have unlimited internet. If you were to add unlimited internet to your cheaper plan would it still be cheaper than the iPhone plans?
The 30% coverage of EDGE should improve pretty quickly. From what I've read its only a software upgrade for O2 and not a heavy hardware upgrade. So by November the situation should be very different from today.
We don't get any official free hot spots in the US. Not even on AT&T hotspots.
BTW, for those who say 3G is worthless, it's currently my only net connection at home. I'm living in a rented house for two months while waiting for a purchase to complete, and installing a phone line would cost £125. For £5 I added 1GB of data to my phone plan, tethered it to my G5 with bluetooth and got it sharing over Airport for my housemates to use.
I know that's a rare case, but I doubt I'd even attempt it with EDGE -- it'd just be too slow.
Amorya
I may be waiting another year or so, but I wont buy until I see 3G and 16GB of storage. I doubt I'm alone on this either.
It is always wise to wait for rev.2 for such a device anyway. If you are going to be lock into a 2 year contract you better have the best device you can get for that, period. I would not be surprise if by MWSF we will see a 16gb and 3G version. If not there by no later than March 08.
The iPhone development is happening very fast and Steve wants to sell 10 million by end of 2008, so you can bet the next revision will address most of the major issues and requests and will be a killer one.
The iPhone is fantastic, I have been very tempted to get one, but is good to wait. I am buying the iPod Touch meanwhile and then maybe selling it on eBay when the iPhone rev. 2 finally comes to life.
I'm confused some are saying this is a pretty good plan and some people are saying its a terrible plan. What I imagine is that those who say they have cheaper plans don't have unlimited internet. If you were to add unlimited internet to your cheaper plan would it still be cheaper than the iPhone plans?
Unlimited internet costs between £5 and £10 a month, depending on the network. (Unlimited seems to be 1GB fair use. If the iPhone plan offers more than 1GB, then the plans might start to look better.)
You can usually get 500 minutes for around £15-20 these days. Add on your net access and you're at around £25. There are other expensive plans, but by shopping around for whatever offers are on (and there are always offers on) you can get even better rates sometimes.
Amorya
Why does everyone nention the N95 like it's the gold standard? Is it that good?
No, it's not even that good! I don't understand why everyone uses the N95 as the benchmark. I have one and it sucks! I can't wait for Nov 9th so I can ditch the Nokia.
If anyone is interested in why the N95 sucks then..
#1 - Build quality. I've never had a phone made so poorly. The whole thing creeks when I press the number pad.
#2 - Software. Nokia always used to be the kings of mobile software. I don't know what has happended over the past couple of years, but their software is so buggy now. Icons are shoddy, layout and themes are not properly thought through.
#3 - Camera. The 5MP camera is supposed to be a selling point for the N95. It's not bad for a phone, but cannot be even remotely compared to a 'proper' 5MP camera (Canon, Nikon etc). Also whenever you take a picture, the shoddy software wants you to do all kinds of things with the imave.. upload to album, send to contact... I JUST WANT TO TAKE A COUPLE OF PICS!!!!
#4 - Battery life. It's true what SJ says about 3G chipsets. Under heavy use, the battery life is quite poor.
#5 - It's nothing like an iPhone!
#3 - Camera. The 5MP camera is supposed to be a selling point for the N95. It's not bad for a phone, but cannot be even remotely compared to a 'proper' 5MP camera (Canon, Nikon etc). Also whenever you take a picture, the shoddy software wants you to do all kinds of things with the imave.. upload to album, send to contact... I JUST WANT TO TAKE A COUPLE OF PICS!!!!
I don't care to get one, but I think that's odd, given the kind of camera that's on that. I would think that the N95 would at least take acceptable pictures, at least much better than you'd find on other phones. It doesn't look like an ordinary phone camera, it looks more like a phone was built around a conventional point-and-shoot. Other phones have a pin-sized lens and a pin-sized sensor.
I don't care to get one, but I think that's odd, given the kind of camera that's on that. I would think that the N95 would at least take acceptable pictures, at least much better than you'd find on other phones. It doesn't look like an ordinary phone camera, it looks more like a phone was built around a conventional point-and-shoot. Other phones have a pin-sized lens and a pin-sized sensor.
Nope, it has the same optics as the other Nokia N Series phones. They are ok for phone cameras, but so is the iPhone camera! The 5MP images size just emphasises the noise.
Thanks for clearing that up. That is a whole lot of taxes.
For future reference, here's the link o VAT rates in the EU countries:
http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs...t_rates_en.pdf
As aegisdesign notes, it is 17.5% in the UK.
Why does everyone nention the N95 like it's the gold standard? Is it that good?
I've been wondering the same thing.
Does anyone know how many of these Nokia has sold -- i.e., how is it going in the marketplace? Everyone talks about it as though it is quite ubiquitous ......
Also, is it multitouch? Having now used that technology for ten weeks, I can tell you that is worth some sizable premium (which, of course, could vary from person to person).
Apologies: Just saw SpinDrift's response. Oh well, I'll leave this in anyway.....
Unlimited internet costs between £5 and £10 a month, depending on the network.
How many minutes and texts do you generally get?
I'm sure that $4.50 to ship from the uk to boulder, co isn't in any way subsidized by your taxes, huh?
Nope. Royal Mail was privatised years ago.
I love how the uk'ers here are utterly ignoring the fact that people can get free phones here in the states, too, yet some of us still elect to pay more to get what we want. Stop rehashing last January's arguments. Maybe if apple had only renamed it the iMobile..
We're ignoring it because it's totally irrelevant to the argument. The point is we can get Nokia's most expensive, most feature packed smartphone for free whereas Apple's much less capable device is £269.
So, Apple is betting enough people will think the iPhone is worth 269 more than an N95, much like the iPod initially commanded a premium. I'm not sure what's surprising here?
The iPod when it was released was only a bit more expensive than the competition and the competition wasn't very good, to be more than kind. That's not like Apple v Nokia or Sony Ericsson today.
More features != better. Apple has always been about carefully choosing fewer features and implementing them so they are utterly painless to use. (They don't always succeed, but they have a pretty good percentage in their favor.)
I agree entirely. But they've chosen to only implement a very small subset of features well in the iPhone's case missing out features we expect in Europe in an expensive phone.
None of that is to say the iPhone will succeed, but I bet it's not doomed either.
I think it'll do ok too but I'm pretty sure that's based on it's brand image not it's price, features or ease of use.
So for 269 Sterling you get an iPod touch that is also a phone with email possibilities that syncs perfectly with your Mac.
Sounds good to me! Considering that EVERYTHING is more expensive in the UK.
Everything ISN'T more expensive in the UK. Healthcare and Education to name two.
And for the lack of 3G, you get many free Wifi spots all over the country... much faster than 3G and much cheaper too.
Not really. Both are free so there's no cost difference. The Cloud hotspots are few and far between in some areas of the country and it doesn't really help you get fast internet access on a train. Where I live, O2 3G coverage is non-existent so it's not really a dilemma I have to face - I'm stuck with standard non-EDGE GPRS.
And for those who prefer to get a free Nokia N95, great! Just add the iPod touch to your price comparison and all the hassle to sync 2 devices.. if you manage to sync that N95 at all.
There'd be little point. The N95 has a decent enough media player already and yes it syncs just fine. http://europe.nokia.com/mac/isync/
And the N95 has a 5 MP camera... Wow, your photos will look so much better....... actually, they wont... amounts of MP is not important for quality.. it's the lens that makes photos good or bad... not that the iPhone lens is that great, but he.. it's a phone, not a camera!
The amount of MP *IS* important coupled to a good lens and a flash. Guess what, most high end Euro phones have all three.
And GPS in your phone, instead of Google maps... ok, for those that need a GPS on their phone I suppose it is a good thing... for those who need and want it...
Why not. It's free. And the N95 has Google maps too. Use either with the built in GPS.
This is a good deal for people in The City (London's financial district) which is covered in wifi provided by The Cloud. It's also the first unlimited data package in the UK.
I'd say this is a pretty good deal overall.
It's obviously not the first unlimited data package because there's a 1400 page 'fair use' policy in place and t-mobile have been selling 'unlimited' data packages for over a year at least. The detail in the fine print will be interesting.
I'm not sure how many MB 1400 pages equates to if that's what they're estimating. Do they really count page views? I would have thought not. You have to wonder what the 1400 pages usage translates for YouTube usage.
Why does everyone nention the N95 like it's the gold standard? Is it that good?
It's a brick of a phone but it does do almost absolutely everything in one brick. If you want everything in one brick, it's the phone for you.
It is always wise to wait for rev.2 for such a device anyway. If you are going to be lock into a 2 year contract you better have the best device you can get for that, period. I would not be surprise if by MWSF we will see a 16gb and 3G version. If not there by no later than March 08.
The iPhone development is happening very fast and Steve wants to sell 10 million by end of 2008, so you can bet the next revision will address most of the major issues and requests and will be a killer one.
The iPhone is fantastic, I have been very tempted to get one, but is good to wait. I am buying the iPod Touch meanwhile and then maybe selling it on eBay when the iPhone rev. 2 finally comes to life.
The iPhone's been out a few months now and no major gripes with the hardware beyond a few phones losing touch sensitivity. It's always worth waiting a few months perhaps but so far the iPhone v1 has been ok IMHO.
There's been more issues with iPod Touch already!
After what Jobs said today I'd be very surprised to see a 3G iPhone till at least mid 2008. It's only an 18 month contract here so not a big deal. O2's future 3G coverage map is showing no more coverage for me than current so I'd guess 3G is going to be mostly irrelevant.
Only thing I'd want now is a better camera so I don't have to carry around another device.
No, it's not even that good! I don't understand why everyone uses the N95 as the benchmark. I have one and it sucks! I can't wait for Nov 9th so I can ditch the Nokia.
It's a good example of a free phone you can sell on eBay to people who value features over Apple-ness to pay for your iPhone.
#2 - Software. Nokia always used to be the kings of mobile software. I don't know what has happended over the past couple of years, but their software is so buggy now. Icons are shoddy, layout and themes are not properly thought through.
Symbian OS 9 happened. It was very buggy. Couple it to Nokia's S60 interface and you've a turd on your hands. S60 was always the bastard child compared to UIQ and S80 but OS 9.0 added insult to injury.
Could be worse though - See Windows Mobile or PalmOS.
#3 - Camera. The 5MP camera is supposed to be a selling point for the N95. It's not bad for a phone, but cannot be even remotely compared to a 'proper' 5MP camera (Canon, Nikon etc). Also whenever you take a picture, the shoddy software wants you to do all kinds of things with the imave.. upload to album, send to contact... I JUST WANT TO TAKE A COUPLE OF PICS!!!!
But it's also leagues better than the 2mp non-autofocus, non-flash teeny lens Apple camera and perfectly acceptable for snaps. I prefered the SE K800i's 3.2mp built in camera myself.
#4 - Battery life. It's true what SJ says about 3G chipsets. Under heavy use, the battery life is quite poor.
But then if you need it, it's there, whereas you don't have that option at all with the iPhone.
It's like arguing that an ice cream with optional free hot fudge sauce isn't better than a plain ice cream, even if your ice cream melts quicker.
I don't care to get one, but I think that's odd, given the kind of camera that's on that. I would think that the N95 would at least take acceptable pictures, at least much better than you'd find on other phones. It doesn't look like an ordinary phone camera, it looks more like a phone was built around a conventional point-and-shoot. Other phones have a pin-sized lens and a pin-sized sensor.
It *IS* pretty good for a phone. I don't think it's as good as Sony's K800 3.2mp cybershot phone cameras. Even Moto's new phones are 3.2mp. Either would be fine for most people instead of a point and shoot. Go to any wedding in the UK these days and there's a dozen people with phones snapping, not cameras. It just shows up Apple's offering as being lack lustre by comparison - that's all - which the 'mp myth' fanboys don't seem to realise that there's a lower limit on quality, not just a higher limit on diminishing returns.
The point is we can get Nokia's most expensive, most feature packed smartphone for free whereas Apple's much less capable device is £269.
Feature packed means little if it isn't able to perform its features well. Really more features becomes a liability. I would prefer for features to wait until they can be used well. Without one features usability being sacrificed for some other feature.
The amount of MP *IS* important coupled to a good lens and a flash. Guess what, most high end Euro phones have all three.
I would count lens and A/D imagine processing as the most important parts of a good picture. And there is no way a phone is going to do all of that better than a dedicated point and shoot.
But then if you need it, it's there, whereas you don't have that option at all with the iPhone.
It's like arguing that an ice cream with optional free hot fudge sauce isn't better than a plain ice cream, even if your ice cream melts quicker.
I think one would need to assess how important is 3G. iPhone clearly has a superior UI and application design. It doesn't have 3G, but it does have WiFi and EDGE, which one is more important.
Go to any wedding in the UK these days and there's a dozen people with phones snapping, not cameras. It just shows up Apple's offering as being lack lustre by comparison - that's all - which the 'mp myth' fanboys don't seem to realise that there's a lower limit on quality, not just a higher limit on diminishing returns.
More megapixels can add to quality. The megapix myth is saying that more mp does not necessarily add more quality. Along with mp you need to improve the lens and the A/D processing. There is only so much you can do to improve all of that on a phone. While there is more room to improve these factors on a dedicated point and shoot.
More megapixels can add to quality. The megapix myth is saying that more mp does not necessarily add more quality.
That's not the myth though, that's the truth. Megapixels does not necessarily add more quality.
The real megapixel myth is that megapixels is the sole measure of quality.
Along with mp you need to improve the lens and the A/D processing. There is only so much you can do to improve all of that on a phone. While there is more room to improve these factors on a dedicated point and shoot.
The problem is that getting a good lens, good sensor and a good flash all take a certain minimum size, particularly depth. iPhone is about half as thick as the N95.
Feature packed means little if it isn't able to perform its features well. Really more features becomes a liability. I would prefer for features to wait until they can be used well. Without one features usability being sacrificed for some other feature.
Sure, you can have feature overload but there's features missing or badly done already in the iPhone. eg. No video at all and who forgot the camera shutter button?
There's no reason why MMS should be missing. It's no different that email or sms.
I would count lens and A/D imagine processing as the most important parts of a good picture. And there is no way a phone is going to do all of that better than a dedicated point and shoot.
It doesn't have to be better, it just has to be 'good enough' and for many people that don't know what A/D is, many modern phones are 'good enough'.
And you're telling someone who still uses an old 3.3mp Olympus because it has lovely glass and predictable image processing.
Does anyone know how many of these Nokia has sold -- i.e., how is it going in the marketplace? Everyone talks about it as though it is quite ubiquitous ......
Sorry to "reply" to my own post.
Does anybody know (or have a vague estimate of) how many N95s have been sold?