At the moment, Safari, Excel, BBEdit, Interarchy, Entourage, Quark 6.5, Photoshop CS1 and some custom AppleScript Studio apps. Occasionally, iTunes and iPhoto. At home I've switched to Numbers because of its pretty charts but its redraw is dog slow compared to Excel.
Do you think the MBs will go to SR meroms or skip that platform and go to a penryn?
Good question.
I can't see why Apple, after just having upgraded the MB's would stick with the old 65nm platform. Penyrn is going to be out early Nov, for servers and hi end deasktops, and in the first quarter for mobile.
As Apple likes to have the same chips in the iMacs as the laptops, It seems as though Prnyrn would be the answer. The only thing that would stop that, as I see it, would be if laptop chips are running towards the end of the quarter, rather than at the front.
But, Intel is already ahead of its earlier announced schedule, so I don't think that's likely.
There is also the possibility that Apple may get these new mobile chips before anyone else, as they did with Yonah.
So, I see it as being possible that we will see the introduction of new iMacs, MB's and MBP's at Macworld during the second week of January, with delivery for some at that time, and others spaced further out, as Apple sometimes does, depending on chip supply.
Why would Apple revise a newly revised machine with the same old architecture?
Based on what I have seen, I think that we will see new Mac Pros announced at the same time as Leopard on October 31st. I expect an announcement of Penryn-based Mac Pros with a shipping date of mid-November.
That would give SJ something truly exciting to show off all the Leopard technologies on.
Based on what I have seen, I think that we will see new Mac Pros announced at the same time as Leopard on October 31st. I expect an announcement of Penryn-based Mac Pros with a shipping date of mid-November.
That would give SJ something truly exciting to show off all the Leopard technologies on.
I was in the local Apple store the other day and the Mac Pro and Cinema Displays looked somewhat out of place. Didn't have any back trim on them any were. That's when I felt like these 2 would be next in line for a face-lift and not too long in coming.
Based on what I have seen, I think that we will see new Mac Pros announced at the same time as Leopard on October 31st. I expect an announcement of Penryn-based Mac Pros with a shipping date of mid-November.
That would give SJ something truly exciting to show off all the Leopard technologies on.
i guess Mac Pro must use desktop CPUs instead of work station CPUs (with xMac absent).
Apple should offer two Mac Pro
one with Desktop cpu and priced cheaper and
another with work station CPU with same price as now.
are Penryn based Desktop CPUs also going be available on Nov 12?
i guess Mac Pro must use desktop CPUs instead of work station CPUs (with xMac absent).
Apple should offer two Mac Pro
one with Desktop cpu and priced cheaper and
another with work station CPU with same price as now.
are Penryn based Desktop CPUs also going be available on Nov 12?
There is a whole other thread on that subject.
Apple will not stop using XEONS, or there will be NO Mac Pro sales left, and they will loose the high-end industry. They could have taken a huge chunk of it about 3 years ago, but their offerings ever sense have been disappointing to Most Pro's. They gained a lot a lot of faith by offering the Quadro, but then lost it again in subsequent years by offering years old technology following year after year.
Apple will not stop using XEONS, or there will be NO Mac Pro sales left, and they will loose the high-end industry. They could have taken a huge chunk of it about 3 years ago, but their offerings ever sense have been disappointing to Most Pro's. They gained a lot a lot of faith by offering the Quadro, but then lost it again in subsequent years by offering years old technology following year after year.
i understand the reason behind Xeons, but who knows apple could change that OR we can wish that they change their stance ...
all the EA games are shown in iMac (in the apple site), it looks like apple going to stick to this line
...Was what expected was a fair amount of improved performance, and significant battery life enhancement....Neither occurred.
I think the Core 2 Duo did make this happen for MacBook compared to Core Duo. Unless you are talking about Core 2 Duo going to Santa Rosa [MBP], I agree, benefits there have been slim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Apple's decision to not use it made sense, therefore, because the improved graphics has also proven to be better, but not so much that games would be actually significantly more playable. to go from atrocious to less atrocious is not much of an improvement.
I can't agree more. Nothing short of a nVidia 8500 or ATI 2400 can be of *any* use in mainstream 3D games. The ATI Mobility X1600 is now a bare, *bare* minimum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Your deep technical understanding of these issues always amazes me, as does your ability to use some of the more esoteric phraseology.. ...
That's me, some kind of idiot savant. Somehow today a few buddies and I "hacked" a RainDesign i360 to force it to fit a 24" iMac Alu. Don't ask... but hell it was fun, sure made dealing with the office bitch a lot easier today. GRRR S**** B*8****8kldsfhjkjsfs
....So, I see it as being possible that we will see the introduction of new iMacs, MB's and MBP's at Macworld during the second week of January, with delivery for some at that time, and others spaced further out, as Apple sometimes does, depending on chip supply.
Why would Apple revise a newly revised machine with the same old architecture?
Probably MBP, MB, iMac in that order over Jan--April/May 2008. To maintain sales momentum Apple always spreads out the launches/update.
See AppleInsider's article. 2.5ghz 45nm Core2Duo MacBookPro nVidia 8900M GT 512MB for me in 2008! w0000000t
Probably MBP, MB, iMac in that order over Jan--April/May 2008. To maintain sales momentum Apple always spreads out the launches/update.
See AppleInsider's article. 2.5ghz 45nm Core2Duo MacBookPro nVidia 8900M GT 512MB for me in 2008! w0000000t
Of course, Mac Pro's will be out too, but then, they use different chips.
An interesting article says that more manufacturers will be using the faster mobile chips in their desktop machines, just like Apple has (and Sony). This should end the griping about this here. Apple, as usual, has just been the first to recognize the fact that most people don't need hi end chips in their desktop. This is shown by the fact that so many are willing to buy portables, which are getting more powerful, but aren't as powerful as the desktops using the same chips.
Of course, Mac Pro's will be out too, but then, they use different chips.
An interesting article says that more manufacturers will be using the faster mobile chips in their desktop machines, just like Apple has (and Sony). This should end the griping about this here. Apple, as usual, has just been the first to recognize the fact that most people don't need hi end chips in their desktop. This is shown by the fact that so many are willing to buy portables, which are getting more powerful, but aren't as powerful as the desktops using the same chips.
thats why i think/wish/guess Intel should reduce price of Mobile CPUs to match with destkop CPUs, now laptop sales are taking off and lots of mobile parts used in other boxes as well, there is no preimum needed for mobile CPUs ...
thats why i think/wish/guess Intel should reduce price of Mobile CPUs to match with destkop CPUs, now laptop sales are taking off and lots of mobile parts used in other boxes as well, there is no preimum needed for mobile CPUs ...
performance per price
Cpu's are priced by desireability. They drop the prices when the sales are dropping, as do many other manufacturers of such mass produced items, such as memory.
As long as they remain popular, the prices will remain high.
...This is shown by the fact that so many are willing to buy portables, which are getting more powerful, but aren't as powerful as the desktops using the same chips...
In the Mac ecosystem anyway the CPUs in MacBooks and of course MacBookPros are very very powerful. Ability to do web surfing, file transfer, Flash, CS3 print and web design are quite good compared to Mac or PC desktops. Let's leave out gaming for now.
The key for desktop-class performance (excluding of course where Mac Pros are best suited for the job) is 1. 7200rpm hard disk, 2. 2gb to 4gb RAM, 3. decent graphics card eg. MacBookPro.
While MBP 15"s are of course not comparable to Mac Pros, a 2.2ghz nVidia 8600M GT 128mb VRAM, LED Backlight, and say 4GB and throw in a decent 7200rpm drive, offers similar performance to the 2.4ghz iMacs. And it's portable.
Hence the insane demand for the MBP 15"s and I believe, Apple "deprecating" the iMac as a pro-level desktop, instead moving people to MBP or MacPro (dividing up the market segments, just like they did the portables into MacBook and MBP, no in-between).
Cpu's are priced by desireability. They drop the prices when the sales are dropping, as do many other manufacturers of such mass produced items, such as memory.
As long as they remain popular, the prices will remain high.
Hence in the PC enthusiast scene, people are looking for relatively cheap CPUs that overclock extremely well.
Like the AMD Venice 3000+ , and many Core2Duos that can go from 2+ ghz to 3+ ghz with a decent motherboard and RAM.
The key for desktop-class performance (excluding of course where Mac Pros are best suited for the job) is 1. 7200rpm hard disk, 2. 2gb to 4gb RAM, 3. decent graphics card eg. MacBookPro.
While MBP 15"s are of course not comparable to Mac Pros, a 2.2ghz nVidia 8600M GT 128mb VRAM, LED Backlight, and say 4GB and throw in a decent 7200rpm drive, offers similar performance to the 2.4ghz iMacs. And it's portable.
Hence the insane demand for the MBP 15"s and I believe, Apple "deprecating" the iMac as a pro-level desktop, instead moving people to MBP or MacPro (dividing up the market segments, just like they did the portables into MacBook and MBP, no in-between).
One thing I don't understand from the article published on Anand, which is more detailed, is why Nehalen is coming out late 2008, rather than somewhat earlier. According to Intel, it taped out three weeks ago, and they have it up and running already. They demo'ed it with Windows, and said it was up on OS X as well.
I know this is a new process, but I would have expected to see this by June, latest. Consider that Intel is several months AHEAD of schedule with 45nm, as they have been for the past 18 months with everything else.
Yields shortly after tape-out are probably well below 10%. Intel will need to spend some time tweaking the process to get the yields up.
Yields shortly after tape-out are probably well below 10%. Intel will need to spend some time tweaking the process to get the yields up.
Except that often products ship three to six months after tapeout, and a successful silicon run.
I think that Intel is holding this to get payback on the Penyrn line first.
I also think that we will see this earlier than we expect. Penyrn is two to three months ahead of the early schelule, and Nehalen surprised everyone by not only taping out, but running Windows and OS X already.
Considering that working ilicon was produced in early September, with an expected one or two more process "tweeks" to bring to speed and yields, we could expect this by June.
He's not the only one who doesn't appreciate bad language. I'm sure you're able to articulate yourself far better than that. There's just no need for swear words.
Who gave you the fucking right to tell others how to speak? Words are words...
At what nm do we have to switch to optical? Like when the quantum thingys cause to much unpredictability because the transistor thingys are too close together? 25nm? 10nm? 1nm? 0.1nm? 0.001nm? Melgross?
advice: don't ever use the word "thingy"
If by 'optical', you mean "visible light" lithography, then no. UV is already at a smaller wavelength than visible light. You would have to go farther up the spectrum to extreme UV or soft X-ray... although I would bet the methodology would fall apart and future IC production processes will be totally unrelated to UV-litho.
Comments
What apps would those be?
Moreover, if the G5 works, then keep it.
At the moment, Safari, Excel, BBEdit, Interarchy, Entourage, Quark 6.5, Photoshop CS1 and some custom AppleScript Studio apps. Occasionally, iTunes and iPhoto. At home I've switched to Numbers because of its pretty charts but its redraw is dog slow compared to Excel.
Mel,
Do you think the MBs will go to SR meroms or skip that platform and go to a penryn?
Good question.
I can't see why Apple, after just having upgraded the MB's would stick with the old 65nm platform. Penyrn is going to be out early Nov, for servers and hi end deasktops, and in the first quarter for mobile.
As Apple likes to have the same chips in the iMacs as the laptops, It seems as though Prnyrn would be the answer. The only thing that would stop that, as I see it, would be if laptop chips are running towards the end of the quarter, rather than at the front.
But, Intel is already ahead of its earlier announced schedule, so I don't think that's likely.
There is also the possibility that Apple may get these new mobile chips before anyone else, as they did with Yonah.
So, I see it as being possible that we will see the introduction of new iMacs, MB's and MBP's at Macworld during the second week of January, with delivery for some at that time, and others spaced further out, as Apple sometimes does, depending on chip supply.
Why would Apple revise a newly revised machine with the same old architecture?
That would give SJ something truly exciting to show off all the Leopard technologies on.
Based on what I have seen, I think that we will see new Mac Pros announced at the same time as Leopard on October 31st. I expect an announcement of Penryn-based Mac Pros with a shipping date of mid-November.
That would give SJ something truly exciting to show off all the Leopard technologies on.
I was in the local Apple store the other day and the Mac Pro and Cinema Displays looked somewhat out of place. Didn't have any back trim on them any were. That's when I felt like these 2 would be next in line for a face-lift and not too long in coming.
Based on what I have seen, I think that we will see new Mac Pros announced at the same time as Leopard on October 31st. I expect an announcement of Penryn-based Mac Pros with a shipping date of mid-November.
That would give SJ something truly exciting to show off all the Leopard technologies on.
i guess Mac Pro must use desktop CPUs instead of work station CPUs (with xMac absent).
Apple should offer two Mac Pro
one with Desktop cpu and priced cheaper and
another with work station CPU with same price as now.
are Penryn based Desktop CPUs also going be available on Nov 12?
i guess Mac Pro must use desktop CPUs instead of work station CPUs (with xMac absent).
Apple should offer two Mac Pro
one with Desktop cpu and priced cheaper and
another with work station CPU with same price as now.
are Penryn based Desktop CPUs also going be available on Nov 12?
There is a whole other thread on that subject.
Apple will not stop using XEONS, or there will be NO Mac Pro sales left, and they will loose the high-end industry. They could have taken a huge chunk of it about 3 years ago, but their offerings ever sense have been disappointing to Most Pro's. They gained a lot a lot of faith by offering the Quadro, but then lost it again in subsequent years by offering years old technology following year after year.
There is a whole other thread on that subject.
Apple will not stop using XEONS, or there will be NO Mac Pro sales left, and they will loose the high-end industry. They could have taken a huge chunk of it about 3 years ago, but their offerings ever sense have been disappointing to Most Pro's. They gained a lot a lot of faith by offering the Quadro, but then lost it again in subsequent years by offering years old technology following year after year.
i understand the reason behind Xeons, but who knows apple could change that OR we can wish that they change their stance ...
all the EA games are shown in iMac (in the apple site), it looks like apple going to stick to this line
Mac Mini, iMac and Mac Pro
...Was what expected was a fair amount of improved performance, and significant battery life enhancement....Neither occurred.
I think the Core 2 Duo did make this happen for MacBook compared to Core Duo. Unless you are talking about Core 2 Duo going to Santa Rosa [MBP], I agree, benefits there have been slim.
Apple's decision to not use it made sense, therefore, because the improved graphics has also proven to be better, but not so much that games would be actually significantly more playable. to go from atrocious to less atrocious is not much of an improvement.
I can't agree more. Nothing short of a nVidia 8500 or ATI 2400 can be of *any* use in mainstream 3D games. The ATI Mobility X1600 is now a bare, *bare* minimum.
Your deep technical understanding of these issues always amazes me, as does your ability to use some of the more esoteric phraseology..
That's me, some kind of idiot savant. Somehow today a few buddies and I "hacked" a RainDesign i360 to force it to fit a 24" iMac Alu. Don't ask... but hell it was fun, sure made dealing with the office bitch a lot easier today.
....So, I see it as being possible that we will see the introduction of new iMacs, MB's and MBP's at Macworld during the second week of January, with delivery for some at that time, and others spaced further out, as Apple sometimes does, depending on chip supply.
Why would Apple revise a newly revised machine with the same old architecture?
Probably MBP, MB, iMac in that order over Jan--April/May 2008. To maintain sales momentum Apple always spreads out the launches/update.
See AppleInsider's article. 2.5ghz 45nm Core2Duo MacBookPro nVidia 8900M GT 512MB for me in 2008! w0000000t
Probably MBP, MB, iMac in that order over Jan--April/May 2008. To maintain sales momentum Apple always spreads out the launches/update.
See AppleInsider's article. 2.5ghz 45nm Core2Duo MacBookPro nVidia 8900M GT 512MB for me in 2008! w0000000t
Of course, Mac Pro's will be out too, but then, they use different chips.
An interesting article says that more manufacturers will be using the faster mobile chips in their desktop machines, just like Apple has (and Sony). This should end the griping about this here. Apple, as usual, has just been the first to recognize the fact that most people don't need hi end chips in their desktop. This is shown by the fact that so many are willing to buy portables, which are getting more powerful, but aren't as powerful as the desktops using the same chips.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2183161,00.asp
Of course, Mac Pro's will be out too, but then, they use different chips.
An interesting article says that more manufacturers will be using the faster mobile chips in their desktop machines, just like Apple has (and Sony). This should end the griping about this here. Apple, as usual, has just been the first to recognize the fact that most people don't need hi end chips in their desktop. This is shown by the fact that so many are willing to buy portables, which are getting more powerful, but aren't as powerful as the desktops using the same chips.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2183161,00.asp
thats why i think/wish/guess Intel should reduce price of Mobile CPUs to match with destkop CPUs, now laptop sales are taking off and lots of mobile parts used in other boxes as well, there is no preimum needed for mobile CPUs ...
performance per price
thats why i think/wish/guess Intel should reduce price of Mobile CPUs to match with destkop CPUs, now laptop sales are taking off and lots of mobile parts used in other boxes as well, there is no preimum needed for mobile CPUs ...
performance per price
Cpu's are priced by desireability. They drop the prices when the sales are dropping, as do many other manufacturers of such mass produced items, such as memory.
As long as they remain popular, the prices will remain high.
...This is shown by the fact that so many are willing to buy portables, which are getting more powerful, but aren't as powerful as the desktops using the same chips...
In the Mac ecosystem anyway the CPUs in MacBooks and of course MacBookPros are very very powerful. Ability to do web surfing, file transfer, Flash, CS3 print and web design are quite good compared to Mac or PC desktops. Let's leave out gaming for now.
The key for desktop-class performance (excluding of course where Mac Pros are best suited for the job) is 1. 7200rpm hard disk, 2. 2gb to 4gb RAM, 3. decent graphics card eg. MacBookPro.
While MBP 15"s are of course not comparable to Mac Pros, a 2.2ghz nVidia 8600M GT 128mb VRAM, LED Backlight, and say 4GB and throw in a decent 7200rpm drive, offers similar performance to the 2.4ghz iMacs. And it's portable.
Hence the insane demand for the MBP 15"s and I believe, Apple "deprecating" the iMac as a pro-level desktop, instead moving people to MBP or MacPro (dividing up the market segments, just like they did the portables into MacBook and MBP, no in-between).
Cpu's are priced by desireability. They drop the prices when the sales are dropping, as do many other manufacturers of such mass produced items, such as memory.
As long as they remain popular, the prices will remain high.
Hence in the PC enthusiast scene, people are looking for relatively cheap CPUs that overclock extremely well.
Like the AMD Venice 3000+ , and many Core2Duos that can go from 2+ ghz to 3+ ghz with a decent motherboard and RAM.
The key for desktop-class performance (excluding of course where Mac Pros are best suited for the job) is 1. 7200rpm hard disk, 2. 2gb to 4gb RAM, 3. decent graphics card eg. MacBookPro.
While MBP 15"s are of course not comparable to Mac Pros, a 2.2ghz nVidia 8600M GT 128mb VRAM, LED Backlight, and say 4GB and throw in a decent 7200rpm drive, offers similar performance to the 2.4ghz iMacs. And it's portable.
Hence the insane demand for the MBP 15"s and I believe, Apple "deprecating" the iMac as a pro-level desktop, instead moving people to MBP or MacPro (dividing up the market segments, just like they did the portables into MacBook and MBP, no in-between).
Grumbles. Yeah. Where's my mid-tower?
Lemon Bon BOn
One thing I don't understand from the article published on Anand, which is more detailed, is why Nehalen is coming out late 2008, rather than somewhat earlier. According to Intel, it taped out three weeks ago, and they have it up and running already. They demo'ed it with Windows, and said it was up on OS X as well.
I know this is a new process, but I would have expected to see this by June, latest. Consider that Intel is several months AHEAD of schedule with 45nm, as they have been for the past 18 months with everything else.
Yields shortly after tape-out are probably well below 10%. Intel will need to spend some time tweaking the process to get the yields up.
Yields shortly after tape-out are probably well below 10%. Intel will need to spend some time tweaking the process to get the yields up.
Except that often products ship three to six months after tapeout, and a successful silicon run.
I think that Intel is holding this to get payback on the Penyrn line first.
I also think that we will see this earlier than we expect. Penyrn is two to three months ahead of the early schelule, and Nehalen surprised everyone by not only taping out, but running Windows and OS X already.
Considering that working ilicon was produced in early September, with an expected one or two more process "tweeks" to bring to speed and yields, we could expect this by June.
I wouldn't be surprised.
He's not the only one who doesn't appreciate bad language. I'm sure you're able to articulate yourself far better than that. There's just no need for swear words.
Who gave you the fucking right to tell others how to speak? Words are words...
You and the other guy need to get over it.
At what nm do we have to switch to optical? Like when the quantum thingys cause to much unpredictability because the transistor thingys are too close together? 25nm? 10nm? 1nm? 0.1nm? 0.001nm? Melgross?
advice: don't ever use the word "thingy"
If by 'optical', you mean "visible light" lithography, then no. UV is already at a smaller wavelength than visible light. You would have to go farther up the spectrum to extreme UV or soft X-ray... although I would bet the methodology would fall apart and future IC production processes will be totally unrelated to UV-litho.
advice: don't ever use the word "thingy"
Who gave you the fucking right to tell others how to speak? Words are words...
You and the other guy need to get over it.
Do you ever take your own advice?