It is indeed the case. They hope to bring it in around x.2 or x.3
Even if all the RI bugs are ironed out, more than 90% of Apple's own apps don't have RI-ready graphics. Can you imagine the size of the point release upgrades if Apple is sending bug fixes as well as graphics files (which, in most cases, represent a sizable chunk of apps second to localizations).
The only apps that are close to being RI-ready are Font Boo, iChat and Automator. That's it. All the other apps have 72dpi .tiff files without a 288dpi version.
CharlesS on MacNN said that "plans change" but that he couldn't say what had changed because of the NDA but if I were to take a guess, I'd say that Apple is going to give RI the Q2DE treatment: pretend to work on it for many point release, give up, and give it another try for 10.6.
Even if all the RI bugs are ironed out, more than 90% of Apple's own apps don't have RI-ready graphics. Can you imagine the size of the point release upgrades if Apple is sending bug fixes as well as graphics files (which, in most cases, represent a sizable chunk of apps second to localizations).
The only apps that are close to being RI-ready are Font Boo, iChat and Automator. That's it. All the other apps have 72dpi .tiff files without a 288dpi version.
CharlesS on MacNN said that "plans change" but that he couldn't say what had changed because of the NDA but if I were to take a guess, I'd say that Apple is going to give RI the Q2DE treatment: pretend to work on it for many point release, give up, and give it another try for 10.6.
It's fine with me if they wait until 10.6. I mean they have only been pushing it since the announcement of leopard. I doubt everyone would be ready for it anyways. Give it a few more years and it should be ready for prime time.
I don't agree. This would be a big disappointment. We lready had that with 10.4 with quartz.
We don't need to have that happen again.
I wouldn't like to think that Apple's new development model is taken from Vista's.
I don't it was that simple. This was a HUGE change, not just for apple but for every developer out there. As soon as they announced it and I watched it at WWDC, I was kinda scared. Sure it's "easy" for Cocoa devs to implement it, but it truly is more of a challenge for Carbon devs to implement it. I believe there would have been a lot of broken apps out there that did printing and drawing.
I think this will give them enough time to refine it and GET THE DEVELOPERS ready for it. Apple does OS releases a lot quicker than M$ as well. So if we have to wait another 2 years it's not going to be the end of the world. We've lived without it this far, what's another 2 years?
I don't it was that simple. This was a HUGE change, not just for apple but for every developer out there. As soon as they announced it and I watched it at WWDC, I was kinda scared. Sure it's "easy" for Cocoa devs to implement it, but it truly is more of a challenge for Carbon devs to implement it. I believe there would have been a lot of broken apps out there that did printing and drawing.
I think this will give them enough time to refine it and GET THE DEVELOPERS ready for it. Apple does OS releases a lot quicker than M$ as well. So if we have to wait another 2 years it's not going to be the end of the world. We've lived without it this far, what's another 2 years?
The only way developers will get ready for it is if they are pushed into it.
We've now seen that with Adobe and MS, among others. Even if Apple gave them another 2.5 years, they would still wait for it to come out.
If Apple does this now, and brings forth their own apps over the next few months, that will force developers to do it as well, as some will do it right away, and take sales.
I really wouldn't mind if only some apps use it at first.
It was like color Tv back in the '60's, and hi def now. It starts out slowly, and then gathers momentum.
At some point, one has to say "enough" as the Feds did about Hi def. If it was left to the industry, we would wait another 10 years.
Not enough developers were taking it seriously enough. Either because they didn't quite get it, or because they didn't care. The WWDC presentation on it was light on attendance and so was the leopard talk I went to. I know it's a chicken before the egg type thing. But as an end user, I don't want to see the inconsistencies if I don't have to. Granted a lot of people won't jump on board on the RI stuff because apple didn't force them to, but there is a far greater chance of more people jumping on bored in 4.5 years than 2.5 years. I still think apple will do a point release with it. We'll have to wait and see.
Not enough developers were taking it seriously enough. Either because they didn't quite get it, or because they didn't care. The WWDC presentation on it was light on attendance and so was the leopard talk I went to. I know it's a chicken before the egg type thing. But as an end user, I don't want to see the inconsistencies if I don't have to. Granted a lot of people won't jump on board on the RI stuff because apple didn't force them to, but there is a far greater chance of more people jumping on bored in 4.5 years than 2.5 years. I still think apple will do a point release with it. We'll have to wait and see.
I hope they will do a point release. I want them to get it right, but I don't want them to wait for people to decide to come on board.
If they aren't ready now, after all this time, there's no guarantee they will care any more in another 2.5 years, or 4.5 years.
Meanwhile MS is working on it as well. I'd just hate for MS to have it first.
Besides, when I buy my new Mac Pro, I'll be buying a 30" monitor, if Apple upgrades it, and this would be useful, even if it's only for the GUI.
Even if all the RI bugs are ironed out, more than 90% of Apple's own apps don't have RI-ready graphics. Can you imagine the size of the point release upgrades if Apple is sending bug fixes as well as graphics files (which, in most cases, represent a sizable chunk of apps second to localizations).
The only apps that are close to being RI-ready are Font Boo, iChat and Automator. That's it. All the other apps have 72dpi .tiff files without a 288dpi version.
CharlesS on MacNN said that "plans change" but that he couldn't say what had changed because of the NDA but if I were to take a guess, I'd say that Apple is going to give RI the Q2DE treatment: pretend to work on it for many point release, give up, and give it another try for 10.6.
Why on earth do we still have bit-mapped UI elements? OS X has had Display Postscript since it was NextStep 0.6 in 1989. Is Apple still trying to maintain compatibility with software written for OS 9? It's time to let that go.
...but there is a far greater chance of more people jumping on bored in 4.5 years than 2.5 years.
Of course, but that's the problem: they will jump because the industry moves in that direction. This is/was a brilliant opportunity for Apple to take the lead. Let's hope they don't miss it.
We already have a precedent with the never and nowhere seen by the public Q2DE. One more of the same and it starts hurting.
Even if all the RI bugs are ironed out, more than 90% of Apple's own apps don't have RI-ready graphics. Can you imagine the size of the point release upgrades if Apple is sending bug fixes as well as graphics files (which, in most cases, represent a sizable chunk of apps second to localizations).
The only apps that are close to being RI-ready are Font Boo, iChat and Automator. That's it. All the other apps have 72dpi .tiff files without a 288dpi version.
CharlesS on MacNN said that "plans change" but that he couldn't say what had changed because of the NDA but if I were to take a guess, I'd say that Apple is going to give RI the Q2DE treatment: pretend to work on it for many point release, give up, and give it another try for 10.6.
Seeing as how SVG 1.2 isn't a General Recommendation yet and that WebKit hasn't fully integrated SVG into it's frameworks, what sense does it make to have a gap between the Desktop and the Browser? More to the point, when SVG 1.2 is a recomendation [Peter Graffagnino being one of the spec authors and last I checked was the Director of Graphics and Printing for Apple] then both the Screen and Printer will have what they have needed Resolution Independent vector->rasterized graphics processing.
In order for RI to be a reality, both the Screen and the Printer will have to be on the same page.
To think they aren't doing work on this crucial piece of the pie is to think that Adobe and Apple didn't do much when they worked together and brought Postscript and Laser Printing to the masses.
Seeing as how SVG 1.2 isn't a General Recommendation yet and that WebKit hasn't fully integrated SVG into it's frameworks, what sense does it make to have a gap between the Desktop and the Browser? More to the point, when SVG 1.2 is a recomendation [Peter Graffagnino being one of the spec authors and last I checked was the Director of Graphics and Printing for Apple] then both the Screen and Printer will have what they have needed Resolution Independent vector->rasterized graphics processing.
Even when SVG becomes a 'General Recommendation', it'll take a decade for the Web to become RI.
In fact, the Web will never be fully RI. Unless everyone everywhere makes a concerted effort to destroy all old webpages that have never been touched since 1997. Not...gonna...happen.
I think we don't have a choice but to live with cruddy pixelated web graphics on higher pixel-density screens (if we want every element on the screen to scale in the same proportions).
If Apple is delaying RI because of SVG or the Web...we won't see it for years yet.
And are there monitors out there to support res' ind'?
Lemon Bon Bon
The monitors aren't the problem, and there's no special hardware to support it, though the higher the pixel dencity, the better results you get from RI. Resolution independence isn't hardware related, it is an OS/software thing that basically allows you to scale up or down user interface elements.
Those two bugs in build 9A559, "one relating to archive installs [failing] ?on some Power PC systems if the user attempts to preserve their user settings", requiring the user to "perform an upgrade install, a clean install or opt out of preserving user settings", and HP printer users being required to "perform a custom install of Leopard and de-select the HP printer drivers in the installer", are going to cause a lot of users a lot of problems and/or hassle (unless Apple fixes these before release), since most users won't know about these problems and workarounds, even if they're mentioned in the readme that appears just prior to the install/upgrade, since most people don't read that. Not to mention the bug someone else here reports, "Mail crashes when you use stationery and have 'check spelling before sending' in preferences."
Resolution Independence: it will indeed be a disappointment to many people (though bearable) if it takes until 10.6 to be released. I work with a lot of older people with less-than-perfect eyesight, who sometimes ask me if I can increase the size of everything onscreen. Of course, that can be done right now, by reducing the resolution in the Displays prefpane, but it bugs me when I see everything get a little fuzzy when I do that for them. They never complain, though, so maybe I'm just being picky. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the iPhone use resolution independence when scaling web pages? There's that brief moment when you increase or decrease the resolution in a web page on an iPhone, after which it sharpens up--is that RI in action? All visuals Apple has designed for the iPhone have been under their control, so the iPhone hasn't been limited by legacy 72 DPI, non-scalable graphics, but obviously that's not the case with OS X on non-iPhones.
Comments
It is indeed the case. They hope to bring it in around x.2 or x.3
Even if all the RI bugs are ironed out, more than 90% of Apple's own apps don't have RI-ready graphics. Can you imagine the size of the point release upgrades if Apple is sending bug fixes as well as graphics files (which, in most cases, represent a sizable chunk of apps second to localizations).
The only apps that are close to being RI-ready are Font Boo, iChat and Automator. That's it. All the other apps have 72dpi .tiff files without a 288dpi version.
CharlesS on MacNN said that "plans change" but that he couldn't say what had changed because of the NDA but if I were to take a guess, I'd say that Apple is going to give RI the Q2DE treatment: pretend to work on it for many point release, give up, and give it another try for 10.6.
Even if all the RI bugs are ironed out, more than 90% of Apple's own apps don't have RI-ready graphics. Can you imagine the size of the point release upgrades if Apple is sending bug fixes as well as graphics files (which, in most cases, represent a sizable chunk of apps second to localizations).
The only apps that are close to being RI-ready are Font Boo, iChat and Automator. That's it. All the other apps have 72dpi .tiff files without a 288dpi version.
CharlesS on MacNN said that "plans change" but that he couldn't say what had changed because of the NDA but if I were to take a guess, I'd say that Apple is going to give RI the Q2DE treatment: pretend to work on it for many point release, give up, and give it another try for 10.6.
It's fine with me if they wait until 10.6. I mean they have only been pushing it since the announcement of leopard. I doubt everyone would be ready for it anyways. Give it a few more years and it should be ready for prime time.
We don't need to have that happen again.
I wouldn't like to think that Apple's new development model is taken from Vista's.
I don't agree. This would be a big disappointment. We lready had that with 10.4 with quartz.
We don't need to have that happen again.
I wouldn't like to think that Apple's new development model is taken from Vista's.
I don't it was that simple. This was a HUGE change, not just for apple but for every developer out there. As soon as they announced it and I watched it at WWDC, I was kinda scared. Sure it's "easy" for Cocoa devs to implement it, but it truly is more of a challenge for Carbon devs to implement it. I believe there would have been a lot of broken apps out there that did printing and drawing.
I think this will give them enough time to refine it and GET THE DEVELOPERS ready for it. Apple does OS releases a lot quicker than M$ as well. So if we have to wait another 2 years it's not going to be the end of the world. We've lived without it this far, what's another 2 years?
I don't it was that simple. This was a HUGE change, not just for apple but for every developer out there. As soon as they announced it and I watched it at WWDC, I was kinda scared. Sure it's "easy" for Cocoa devs to implement it, but it truly is more of a challenge for Carbon devs to implement it. I believe there would have been a lot of broken apps out there that did printing and drawing.
I think this will give them enough time to refine it and GET THE DEVELOPERS ready for it. Apple does OS releases a lot quicker than M$ as well. So if we have to wait another 2 years it's not going to be the end of the world. We've lived without it this far, what's another 2 years?
The only way developers will get ready for it is if they are pushed into it.
We've now seen that with Adobe and MS, among others. Even if Apple gave them another 2.5 years, they would still wait for it to come out.
If Apple does this now, and brings forth their own apps over the next few months, that will force developers to do it as well, as some will do it right away, and take sales.
I really wouldn't mind if only some apps use it at first.
It was like color Tv back in the '60's, and hi def now. It starts out slowly, and then gathers momentum.
At some point, one has to say "enough" as the Feds did about Hi def. If it was left to the industry, we would wait another 10 years.
Not enough developers were taking it seriously enough. Either because they didn't quite get it, or because they didn't care. The WWDC presentation on it was light on attendance and so was the leopard talk I went to. I know it's a chicken before the egg type thing. But as an end user, I don't want to see the inconsistencies if I don't have to. Granted a lot of people won't jump on board on the RI stuff because apple didn't force them to, but there is a far greater chance of more people jumping on bored in 4.5 years than 2.5 years. I still think apple will do a point release with it. We'll have to wait and see.
True, but my biggest problem is this.
Not enough developers were taking it seriously enough. Either because they didn't quite get it, or because they didn't care. The WWDC presentation on it was light on attendance and so was the leopard talk I went to. I know it's a chicken before the egg type thing. But as an end user, I don't want to see the inconsistencies if I don't have to. Granted a lot of people won't jump on board on the RI stuff because apple didn't force them to, but there is a far greater chance of more people jumping on bored in 4.5 years than 2.5 years. I still think apple will do a point release with it. We'll have to wait and see.
I hope they will do a point release. I want them to get it right, but I don't want them to wait for people to decide to come on board.
If they aren't ready now, after all this time, there's no guarantee they will care any more in another 2.5 years, or 4.5 years.
Meanwhile MS is working on it as well. I'd just hate for MS to have it first.
Besides, when I buy my new Mac Pro, I'll be buying a 30" monitor, if Apple upgrades it, and this would be useful, even if it's only for the GUI.
Even if all the RI bugs are ironed out, more than 90% of Apple's own apps don't have RI-ready graphics. Can you imagine the size of the point release upgrades if Apple is sending bug fixes as well as graphics files (which, in most cases, represent a sizable chunk of apps second to localizations).
The only apps that are close to being RI-ready are Font Boo, iChat and Automator. That's it. All the other apps have 72dpi .tiff files without a 288dpi version.
CharlesS on MacNN said that "plans change" but that he couldn't say what had changed because of the NDA but if I were to take a guess, I'd say that Apple is going to give RI the Q2DE treatment: pretend to work on it for many point release, give up, and give it another try for 10.6.
Why on earth do we still have bit-mapped UI elements? OS X has had Display Postscript since it was NextStep 0.6 in 1989. Is Apple still trying to maintain compatibility with software written for OS 9? It's time to let that go.
...but there is a far greater chance of more people jumping on bored in 4.5 years than 2.5 years.
Of course, but that's the problem: they will jump because the industry moves in that direction. This is/was a brilliant opportunity for Apple to take the lead. Let's hope they don't miss it.
We already have a precedent with the never and nowhere seen by the public Q2DE. One more of the same and it starts hurting.
It's fine with me if they wait until 10.6. I mean they have only been pushing it since the announcement of leopard.
Not true. Apple is pushing Resolution Independence for developers since the early days of Tiger-developement. Internally even longer.
Even if all the RI bugs are ironed out, more than 90% of Apple's own apps don't have RI-ready graphics. Can you imagine the size of the point release upgrades if Apple is sending bug fixes as well as graphics files (which, in most cases, represent a sizable chunk of apps second to localizations).
The only apps that are close to being RI-ready are Font Boo, iChat and Automator. That's it. All the other apps have 72dpi .tiff files without a 288dpi version.
CharlesS on MacNN said that "plans change" but that he couldn't say what had changed because of the NDA but if I were to take a guess, I'd say that Apple is going to give RI the Q2DE treatment: pretend to work on it for many point release, give up, and give it another try for 10.6.
Seeing as how SVG 1.2 isn't a General Recommendation yet and that WebKit hasn't fully integrated SVG into it's frameworks, what sense does it make to have a gap between the Desktop and the Browser? More to the point, when SVG 1.2 is a recomendation [Peter Graffagnino being one of the spec authors and last I checked was the Director of Graphics and Printing for Apple] then both the Screen and Printer will have what they have needed Resolution Independent vector->rasterized graphics processing.
In order for RI to be a reality, both the Screen and the Printer will have to be on the same page.
To think they aren't doing work on this crucial piece of the pie is to think that Adobe and Apple didn't do much when they worked together and brought Postscript and Laser Printing to the masses.
In order for RI to be a reality, both the Screen and the Printer will have to be on the same page.
Ooh! A pun!
Sorry, I really had nothing more significant to say here, but I do agree with your post.
Seeing as how SVG 1.2 isn't a General Recommendation yet and that WebKit hasn't fully integrated SVG into it's frameworks, what sense does it make to have a gap between the Desktop and the Browser? More to the point, when SVG 1.2 is a recomendation [Peter Graffagnino being one of the spec authors and last I checked was the Director of Graphics and Printing for Apple] then both the Screen and Printer will have what they have needed Resolution Independent vector->rasterized graphics processing.
Even when SVG becomes a 'General Recommendation', it'll take a decade for the Web to become RI.
In fact, the Web will never be fully RI. Unless everyone everywhere makes a concerted effort to destroy all old webpages that have never been touched since 1997. Not...gonna...happen.
I think we don't have a choice but to live with cruddy pixelated web graphics on higher pixel-density screens (if we want every element on the screen to scale in the same proportions).
If Apple is delaying RI because of SVG or the Web...we won't see it for years yet.
Lemon Bon Bon
And are there monitors out there to support res' ind'?
Lemon Bon Bon
The monitors aren't the problem, and there's no special hardware to support it, though the higher the pixel dencity, the better results you get from RI. Resolution independence isn't hardware related, it is an OS/software thing that basically allows you to scale up or down user interface elements.
I can't wait.
Just hope we get a new tower before Christmas to go with it...
I just hope Open GL gets a massive face lift... Macs should be outgunning PCs/Direct X...not the other way around...
Lemon BOn Bon
Resolution Independence: it will indeed be a disappointment to many people (though bearable) if it takes until 10.6 to be released. I work with a lot of older people with less-than-perfect eyesight, who sometimes ask me if I can increase the size of everything onscreen. Of course, that can be done right now, by reducing the resolution in the Displays prefpane, but it bugs me when I see everything get a little fuzzy when I do that for them. They never complain, though, so maybe I'm just being picky. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the iPhone use resolution independence when scaling web pages? There's that brief moment when you increase or decrease the resolution in a web page on an iPhone, after which it sharpens up--is that RI in action? All visuals Apple has designed for the iPhone have been under their control, so the iPhone hasn't been limited by legacy 72 DPI, non-scalable graphics, but obviously that's not the case with OS X on non-iPhones.
I just hope Open GL gets a massive face lift... Macs should be outgunning PCs/Direct X...not the other way around...
Well, it's not only Open GL to blame. Mostly it's the crappy porting from Windows/PS/Xbox to Mac that sucks.
Anyone knows more about the state of Open GL in Leopard ? ...