Nothing...drawers still exist in Leopard. Apple hasn't removed the functionality. Some issues are actually better solved with drawers. But I think the rule of thumb should be "only one drawer per window".
That makes sense, but what program used more than that?
I liked the way that drawers were handled in Cyberduck and Preview. I suppose it doesn't have to be done that way.
It's difficult to explain something like this to someone. If you don't know from your own use.
Get CS3, and you'll understand. But, then, I don't know your needs, or you your level of use. I fnd that many PS users are no more than what I would consider to be dabblers. But, those who need to do sophisticated work will use nothing else.
This was my business for many years. PS is the most useful application of its kind anywhere. Camera Raw has gotten so very good that I don't know of more than a few pro's pro who would consider anything else. Most of them use Lightroom first, then move to PS.
All of the other pro programs in the business have been losing marketshare.
Apple's Aperture has not kept up. I'm hoping that at the Pro Photo show in a couple of weeks here in NYC I'll see a version 2 with major improvements. Otherwise, it will slip away.
this program is becoming better, but is no rival to anything. It's certainly convenient. I use it instead of Acrobat for viewing PDF's, but not for making one that requires anything useful.
As for image editing, it will be fine for very basic home use, nothing else.
So most are dabblers (which would probably move to lower cost alternatives such as Acorn or Pixelmator as the feature set of these continues to increase) and you're saying Photoshop isn't going anywhere soon? I'm seeing Photoshop becoming super niche with Adobe losing lots of money that they would otherwise get through the 'dabblers'.
RAW and Lightroom are a matter of opinion obviously because lots of pros would disagree with you.
Ah...I never said Preview would replace anything. I know it will be fine for very basic home use and nothing else. I'm just saying that the day Apple decides to open up these easy to use tools (and whatever else it's working on) to developers, we'll see Photoshop's uses restricted to only the purists and the professional artists.
What would you say the ratio of dabblers to pros are?
If by Photoshop not going anywhere you meant it's not going anywhere. You'd be right. When I see startups like the Pixelmator team creating a 1.0 release in a small amount of time and compare it to an app with 20 years of development behind it and only see high end features missing, I wonder if Adobe shouldn't just crawl into a corner and cry.
Meh. Photoshop I like. But like all empires, MS included...its day in the sun is on 'set'.
Apple are providing alot of stuff for people to roll their own. Let's just kick off the slippers and wait a few years and see what happens, eh?
Lemon Bon Bon.
Apple has its chance with Aperture. So far, it has a nice metaphore, but its tools really stink. Very unprofessional, almost unusable.
If you go to the pro sites, and view the forums, you will see, if they differenciate out Lightroom and Apeture in their own spaces, that Lightroom has several times as much chatter. That's because several times as many peope use it.
PS is ubiquitous. While Apple's apps will hopefully get better, so will Adobe's. I've read dozens of times over the years about how some app or other was going to unseat PS. It's yawntime when I hear it again.
And the last thing I want to do is wait a minute and a half for Acrobat to open every time someone sends me a PDF that I want to look at quickly. Acrobat Pro and Photoshop are two of the biggest resource hogs on my machine. There are many times when I need to use them, but opening every PDF or JPG with and Adobe app just to view it is like killing a fly with a shotgun.
Good thing Apple gives us both a simple way to set the default opening app to whatever suits us best.
I completely and whole heartedly agree. I love that when you open a file in Preview it opens instantly, I'd curse any time I'd open a file and it was associated with acrobat or photoshop because it takes too long, even on my Quad 2.66 GHz Mac Pro. I love to grab a whole bunch of files at once open them in preview. Even if they are different file types.
Apple has its chance with Aperture. So far, it has a nice metaphore, but its tools really stink. Very unprofessional, almost unusable.
If you go to the pro sites, and view the forums, you will see, if they differenciate out Lightroom and Apeture in their own spaces, that Lightroom has several times as much chatter. That's because several times as many peope use it.
PS is ubiquitous. While Apple's apps will hopefully get better, so will Adobe's. I've read dozens of times over the years about how some app or other was going to unseat PS. It's yawntime when I hear it again.
Because many are still using the free beta, or the free 30 day trial.
Does anyone know how to get the current version of Preview to display animated GIF's. I could never get this to work. Is it easier in the Leopard version?
Apple has its chance with Aperture. So far, it has a nice metaphore, but its tools really stink. Very unprofessional, almost unusable.
If you go to the pro sites, and view the forums, you will see, if they differenciate out Lightroom and Apeture in their own spaces, that Lightroom has several times as much chatter. That's because several times as many peope use it.
PS is ubiquitous. While Apple's apps will hopefully get better, so will Adobe's. I've read dozens of times over the years about how some app or other was going to unseat PS. It's yawntime when I hear it again.
Heh. Nothing's gonna unseat PS...not for another 10 years I'm sure. Nobody said anything about unseating PS. I'm saying Adobe will have to watch out because some serious competitors are just around the corner.
It would be ridiculous to think that Pixelmator would suddenly get 90% of the market and Photoshop would drop to 10%. Nobody said that (especially considering PS exists for Windows and the PS competitors are mostly Mac apps.) But I can see Pixelmator getting 10-15% of the Mac market eventually.
CS3 just came out...when's CS4 coming out? In 2 years? If the Pixelmator team is serious about their new app, they'll get very close to PS CS3's feature set.
It's also the end of the line for Photoshop (unless Apple has a change of heart) if people are expecting a 64-bit version of Photoshop. I'm sure Adobe will find ways to keep a 32-bit app that will still perform decently with gargantuan canvases...but Adobe will have to rewrite Photoshop or remain 32-bit forever (again, unless Apple feels Adobe's pain) and get overtaken by 2-man teams developing from their basements. Was Adobe really planning to keep a Carbon and 32-bit Photoshop forever? I think Apple's had it up to hear trying to support Adobe's poor decisions. Apple's gonna get fed up one day and stop supporting Carbon altogether. That day, Apple will release its own app and PS artists will have to decide to never upgrade ever again...move to Windows or move to Apple's app. And since Apple's gaining market share amongst students and Macs are finding their ways in homes, why would Apple care if half or all the Photoshop crowd moved to Windows? They'll lose some market share that will quickly be filled back up by non-professionals and possibly professionals that might find Apple's app as good or better than Photoshop.
He's not saying that Apple's going to unseat photoshop, other companies will, and I agree. Photoshop is still common because it has been ubiquitous for years. Look at how it's a brand eponym for "photo editing," something that guarantees that people think about it first and foremost when they need to "get something to photoshop my photos."
The only reason I use Photoshop at work for DTP is because it is so closely integrated into the rest of Creative Suite. It makes publishing so much easier if everything is tied together so closely, making compositions and complex tasks very easy. The high-end tools also help, but both they and its integration are only useful for professionals, and for bored kids, with enough time to figure out how to use photoshop, and then add boobs to photos.
I think that most people will be fine with Pixelmator, which rocks.
How is this used by Automator? Anyone not under NDA?
It looks pretty good... featurewise. But I hope someone tells the GUI artist into creating new toolbar icons. They don't work very well. White icons on a bright gray background on a gray surrounding background makes it hard to distinguish the icon itself. Just squint with your eyes a little and all you see is pretty much gray... If you squint looking at the Tiger version you can still see the toolbar icons. The same goes for the new icons found in the Leopard home folder.. Squint and it's all gray. It's hard on the eyes. The folders I can live with, cuz it's easy to change. But these buttons.. hm.. I don't like it.
Because many are still using the free beta, or the free 30 day trial.
Good try. It's because Pro's prefer it. If you try the two, and have need for a product that does an excellent job of giving you a high quality image, and that works well with PS, you will also prefer it.
If Apple fixes their primitive tools in Aperture, hopefully, that will begin to change.
But, Preview 4 will not change anything on that front, and it's not intended to.
Apple can't win on this one. For years, they get blasted for not making all the apps more consistent. So they change all the apps to match their most popular app, iTunes, and people continue to complain.
And rightfully so. iTunes may be 'popular' but it's also one of the worst offenders for crappy UI behaviour. Every time I open the preferences in iTunes I'm reminded of it's OS9 heritage that they've still not got rid of. Apple may be more consistent with Leopard but they've done it by being bland in places.
As to Adobe being supplanted, it's already happening in my workflow where I've got Automator actions using Preview. I can't remember the last time I launched Acrobat - full version, not the reader. I also tend to use ImageWell for quick blog work although an expanded feature set in Preview might have me using that more. Microsoft and Adobe's cross platform UIs just get on my nerves when I'm used to highly integrated Apple applications and 3rd party apps from people who only code apps for OSX. CS2 was ok but CS3's UI is awful.
Heh. Nothing's gonna unseat PS...not for another 10 years I'm sure. Nobody said anything about unseating PS. I'm saying Adobe will have to watch out because some serious competitors are just around the corner.
It would be ridiculous to think that Pixelmator would suddenly get 90% of the market and Photoshop would drop to 10%. Nobody said that (especially considering PS exists for Windows and the PS competitors are mostly Mac apps.) But I can see Pixelmator getting 10-15% of the Mac market eventually.
CS3 just came out...when's CS4 coming out? In 2 years? If the Pixelmator team is serious about their new app, they'll get very close to PS CS3's feature set.
It's also the end of the line for Photoshop (unless Apple has a change of heart) if people are expecting a 64-bit version of Photoshop. I'm sure Adobe will find ways to keep a 32-bit app that will still perform decently with gargantuan canvases...but Adobe will have to rewrite Photoshop or remain 32-bit forever (again, unless Apple feels Adobe's pain) and get overtaken by 2-man teams developing from their basements. Was Adobe really planning to keep a Carbon and 32-bit Photoshop forever? I think Apple's had it up to hear trying to support Adobe's poor decisions. Apple's gonna get fed up one day and stop supporting Carbon altogether. That day, Apple will release its own app and PS artists will have to decide to never upgrade ever again...move to Windows or move to Apple's app. And since Apple's gaining market share amongst students and Macs are finding their ways in homes, why would Apple care if half or all the Photoshop crowd moved to Windows? They'll lose some market share that will quickly be filled back up by non-professionals and possibly professionals that might find Apple's app as good or better than Photoshop.
Quote:
I'm seeing Photoshop becoming super niche with Adobe losing lots of money that they would otherwise get through the 'dabblers'.
That statement says it. If it remained a "super niche" product, Adobe couldn't afford to support the way it does now.
But, that won't happen. They have Elements for those people you're talking about, and it's pretty good.
PS has also gotten easier to use over the past few years for those without much understanding of its more esoteric features. Adobe isn't stupid. They know there are a lot of people out there who use the program more for a viewer than anything else. Mostly art directors who know little of how to use the program, but want to see the images opened in it.
But, more and more pro's are being required by their clients to do the work that was done in labs, or by the ad staff. These people are finding that they must use PS, even thought all they want to do is to take the "clicks". That's also a reason why Adobe has added many features to the program that makes it easier to use, such as the Highlights/Shadows option. That made that difficult process much easier, and accounted for a good additional take-up of the program. Now, people no longer had to buy the plug-ins that did that (assuming they knew about them).
Camera Raw 4.2 has added quality enhancement features that solve otherwise difficult problems, such as the "recover" tool for extracting highlight detail. The chroma noise reduction tool works better than any other I've sampled. The lens corrections tools, while much simpler than those in DxO do a pretty good job of eliminating the most obvious of problems, etc.
Bridge has grown up as well becoming much more useful than its older version.
I'm not going to go into details here, because, as you know, that will take up a lot of room. But, anyone who really wants to see can download a 30 day free trial, and check for themselves.
I'm also not saying that it's perfect, nothing is.
As for 64 bit versions, if it's really needed, and demanded, it will come. So far, there is no evidence that it is. I wouldn't be surprised to know that Adobe is doing preliminary work on it.
Photoshop is a brand so well known it's used as a verb. It isn't going anywhere. It's had competition on Windows since day 1 - Corel, Paintshop Pro - all of which suit 90% of Photoshop's "dabblers" but they don't use them. To suggest that a program like Pixelmator will get 10-15% of the market any time soon is highly unlikely. Programs like "The Gimp" which has been around for years and is 100% free and has the majority of Photoshop's feature have virtually no marketshare outside Linux...
As for 64 bit versions, if it's really needed, and demanded, it will come. So far, there is no evidence that it is. I wouldn't be surprised to know that Adobe is doing preliminary work on it.
You're saying you think Adobe is rewriting PS? I'd like to see that. With Cocoa being the requirement for 64-bit, Adobe's going to have one heck of a time rewriting it in a timely manner.
Photoshop is a brand so well known it's used as a verb. It isn't going anywhere. It's had competition on Windows since day 1 - Corel, Paintshop Pro - all of which suit 90% of Photoshop's "dabblers" but they don't use them. To suggest that a program like Pixelmator will get 10-15% of the market any time soon is highly unlikely. Programs like "The Gimp" which has been around for years and is 100% free and has the majority of Photoshop's feature have virtually no marketshare outside Linux...
The same was said about Internet Explorer and Windows...notice how Firefox and Safari are now on the map? Mac OS is gaining market share.
The Gimp is just terrible...don't even pull that on us. If you're gonna make me believe dabblers go out and pay 500+ dollars for a pro tool to make simple touch ups, you're sadly mistaken. These dabblers may had to do it a couple years ago with the lack of good and cheap image editors but now there's no shortage.
So most are dabblers (which would probably move to lower cost alternatives such as Acorn or Pixelmator as the feature set of these continues to increase) and you're saying Photoshop isn't going anywhere soon? I'm seeing Photoshop becoming super niche with Adobe losing lots of money that they would otherwise get through the 'dabblers'.
RAW and Lightroom are a matter of opinion obviously because lots of pros would disagree with you.
Ah...I never said Preview would replace anything. I know it will be fine for very basic home use and nothing else. I'm just saying that the day Apple decides to open up these easy to use tools (and whatever else it's working on) to developers, we'll see Photoshop's uses restricted to only the purists and the professional artists.
What would you say the ratio of dabblers to pros are?
If by Photoshop not going anywhere you meant it's not going anywhere. You'd be right. When I see startups like the Pixelmator team creating a 1.0 release in a small amount of time and compare it to an app with 20 years of development behind it and only see high end features missing, I wonder if Adobe shouldn't just crawl into a corner and cry.
well, photoshop was never really made for the dabblers. and most of the people who fall in that category pirate it anyway. so they're not going to be that adversely affected financially. with computers becoming more powerful there are certainly a lot more people who are interested in image manipulation, but a very low percentage of the people who use photoshop know how to do more than magic wands and clone tools.
for the professional end, photoshop isn't going to be overtaken for a very very long time. even if a product came out today that was vastly better in every way, it would probably still take five years for them to make a dent in this sector.
the ratio of pros to dabblers is astronomically low. probably 1 in a 1000 users are actual pros with any deeper understanding of the program. maybe even less. could those people be better served by a more intuitive image manipulation program? probably so. but again, most of them don't pay for photoshop anyway.
You're saying you think Adobe is rewriting PS? I'd like to see that. With Cocoa being the requirement for 64-bit, Adobe's going to have one heck of a time rewriting it in a timely manner.
I've had hints from them.
Since ver. 1, my company was a test site for Adobe, and I've been beta testing it ever since.
believe it or not, they actually do listen. It's very difficult, when a program becomes complex, to do everything people want. Menu's become difficult, etc.
Adobe isn't in the situation of sitting on their hands, or ignoring what was coming out of Apple, but the Apple supplied tools have been less than steller for companies with large, complex programs.
remember how Mathematicia was demoed that day when Apple announced the switch? It took a pretty long time, despite the optimistic pronouncement that day, for the program to come out.
Adobe has much more than one program, no matter how large. I think they did the right thing. Contacts there told me that if they were to have done Cocoa, it might still be in alpha.
Comments
What makes PS so special (or Lightroom for that matter) that will make it remain just where it is?
melgross, tell me, how's the color removal and background removal tools in Photoshop compared to Preview 4.0 and iWork's alpha tool?
I'll second that. And raise Melgross five.
Meh. Photoshop I like. But like all empires, MS included...its day in the sun is on 'set'.
Apple are providing alot of stuff for people to roll their own. Let's just kick off the slippers and wait a few years and see what happens, eh?
Lemon Bon Bon.
Nothing...drawers still exist in Leopard. Apple hasn't removed the functionality. Some issues are actually better solved with drawers. But I think the rule of thumb should be "only one drawer per window".
That makes sense, but what program used more than that?
I liked the way that drawers were handled in Cyberduck and Preview. I suppose it doesn't have to be done that way.
It's difficult to explain something like this to someone. If you don't know from your own use.
Get CS3, and you'll understand. But, then, I don't know your needs, or you your level of use. I fnd that many PS users are no more than what I would consider to be dabblers. But, those who need to do sophisticated work will use nothing else.
This was my business for many years. PS is the most useful application of its kind anywhere. Camera Raw has gotten so very good that I don't know of more than a few pro's pro who would consider anything else. Most of them use Lightroom first, then move to PS.
All of the other pro programs in the business have been losing marketshare.
Apple's Aperture has not kept up. I'm hoping that at the Pro Photo show in a couple of weeks here in NYC I'll see a version 2 with major improvements. Otherwise, it will slip away.
this program is becoming better, but is no rival to anything. It's certainly convenient. I use it instead of Acrobat for viewing PDF's, but not for making one that requires anything useful.
As for image editing, it will be fine for very basic home use, nothing else.
So most are dabblers (which would probably move to lower cost alternatives such as Acorn or Pixelmator as the feature set of these continues to increase) and you're saying Photoshop isn't going anywhere soon? I'm seeing Photoshop becoming super niche with Adobe losing lots of money that they would otherwise get through the 'dabblers'.
RAW and Lightroom are a matter of opinion obviously because lots of pros would disagree with you.
Ah...I never said Preview would replace anything. I know it will be fine for very basic home use and nothing else. I'm just saying that the day Apple decides to open up these easy to use tools (and whatever else it's working on) to developers, we'll see Photoshop's uses restricted to only the purists and the professional artists.
What would you say the ratio of dabblers to pros are?
If by Photoshop not going anywhere you meant it's not going anywhere. You'd be right.
I'll second that. And raise Melgross five.
Meh. Photoshop I like. But like all empires, MS included...its day in the sun is on 'set'.
Apple are providing alot of stuff for people to roll their own. Let's just kick off the slippers and wait a few years and see what happens, eh?
Lemon Bon Bon.
Apple has its chance with Aperture. So far, it has a nice metaphore, but its tools really stink. Very unprofessional, almost unusable.
If you go to the pro sites, and view the forums, you will see, if they differenciate out Lightroom and Apeture in their own spaces, that Lightroom has several times as much chatter. That's because several times as many peope use it.
PS is ubiquitous. While Apple's apps will hopefully get better, so will Adobe's. I've read dozens of times over the years about how some app or other was going to unseat PS. It's yawntime when I hear it again.
And the last thing I want to do is wait a minute and a half for Acrobat to open every time someone sends me a PDF that I want to look at quickly. Acrobat Pro and Photoshop are two of the biggest resource hogs on my machine. There are many times when I need to use them, but opening every PDF or JPG with and Adobe app just to view it is like killing a fly with a shotgun.
Good thing Apple gives us both a simple way to set the default opening app to whatever suits us best.
I completely and whole heartedly agree. I love that when you open a file in Preview it opens instantly, I'd curse any time I'd open a file and it was associated with acrobat or photoshop because it takes too long, even on my Quad 2.66 GHz Mac Pro. I love to grab a whole bunch of files at once open them in preview. Even if they are different file types.
Apple has its chance with Aperture. So far, it has a nice metaphore, but its tools really stink. Very unprofessional, almost unusable.
If you go to the pro sites, and view the forums, you will see, if they differenciate out Lightroom and Apeture in their own spaces, that Lightroom has several times as much chatter. That's because several times as many peope use it.
PS is ubiquitous. While Apple's apps will hopefully get better, so will Adobe's. I've read dozens of times over the years about how some app or other was going to unseat PS. It's yawntime when I hear it again.
Because many are still using the free beta, or the free 30 day trial.
Apple has its chance with Aperture. So far, it has a nice metaphore, but its tools really stink. Very unprofessional, almost unusable.
If you go to the pro sites, and view the forums, you will see, if they differenciate out Lightroom and Apeture in their own spaces, that Lightroom has several times as much chatter. That's because several times as many peope use it.
PS is ubiquitous. While Apple's apps will hopefully get better, so will Adobe's. I've read dozens of times over the years about how some app or other was going to unseat PS. It's yawntime when I hear it again.
Heh. Nothing's gonna unseat PS...not for another 10 years I'm sure. Nobody said anything about unseating PS. I'm saying Adobe will have to watch out because some serious competitors are just around the corner.
It would be ridiculous to think that Pixelmator would suddenly get 90% of the market and Photoshop would drop to 10%. Nobody said that (especially considering PS exists for Windows and the PS competitors are mostly Mac apps.) But I can see Pixelmator getting 10-15% of the Mac market eventually.
CS3 just came out...when's CS4 coming out? In 2 years? If the Pixelmator team is serious about their new app, they'll get very close to PS CS3's feature set.
It's also the end of the line for Photoshop (unless Apple has a change of heart) if people are expecting a 64-bit version of Photoshop. I'm sure Adobe will find ways to keep a 32-bit app that will still perform decently with gargantuan canvases...but Adobe will have to rewrite Photoshop or remain 32-bit forever (again, unless Apple feels Adobe's pain) and get overtaken by 2-man teams developing from their basements. Was Adobe really planning to keep a Carbon and 32-bit Photoshop forever? I think Apple's had it up to hear trying to support Adobe's poor decisions. Apple's gonna get fed up one day and stop supporting Carbon altogether. That day, Apple will release its own app and PS artists will have to decide to never upgrade ever again...move to Windows or move to Apple's app. And since Apple's gaining market share amongst students and Macs are finding their ways in homes, why would Apple care if half or all the Photoshop crowd moved to Windows? They'll lose some market share that will quickly be filled back up by non-professionals and possibly professionals that might find Apple's app as good or better than Photoshop.
The only reason I use Photoshop at work for DTP is because it is so closely integrated into the rest of Creative Suite. It makes publishing so much easier if everything is tied together so closely, making compositions and complex tasks very easy. The high-end tools also help, but both they and its integration are only useful for professionals, and for bored kids, with enough time to figure out how to use photoshop, and then add boobs to photos.
I think that most people will be fine with Pixelmator, which rocks.
How is this used by Automator? Anyone not under NDA?
Preview 4.0's new capabilities strike me as something that not so much replaces Photoshop but a more pedestrian app like GraphicConverter.
Because many are still using the free beta, or the free 30 day trial.
Good try. It's because Pro's prefer it. If you try the two, and have need for a product that does an excellent job of giving you a high quality image, and that works well with PS, you will also prefer it.
If Apple fixes their primitive tools in Aperture, hopefully, that will begin to change.
But, Preview 4 will not change anything on that front, and it's not intended to.
Apple can't win on this one. For years, they get blasted for not making all the apps more consistent. So they change all the apps to match their most popular app, iTunes, and people continue to complain.
And rightfully so. iTunes may be 'popular' but it's also one of the worst offenders for crappy UI behaviour. Every time I open the preferences in iTunes I'm reminded of it's OS9 heritage that they've still not got rid of. Apple may be more consistent with Leopard but they've done it by being bland in places.
As to Adobe being supplanted, it's already happening in my workflow where I've got Automator actions using Preview. I can't remember the last time I launched Acrobat - full version, not the reader. I also tend to use ImageWell for quick blog work although an expanded feature set in Preview might have me using that more. Microsoft and Adobe's cross platform UIs just get on my nerves when I'm used to highly integrated Apple applications and 3rd party apps from people who only code apps for OSX. CS2 was ok but CS3's UI is awful.
Heh. Nothing's gonna unseat PS...not for another 10 years I'm sure. Nobody said anything about unseating PS. I'm saying Adobe will have to watch out because some serious competitors are just around the corner.
It would be ridiculous to think that Pixelmator would suddenly get 90% of the market and Photoshop would drop to 10%. Nobody said that (especially considering PS exists for Windows and the PS competitors are mostly Mac apps.) But I can see Pixelmator getting 10-15% of the Mac market eventually.
CS3 just came out...when's CS4 coming out? In 2 years? If the Pixelmator team is serious about their new app, they'll get very close to PS CS3's feature set.
It's also the end of the line for Photoshop (unless Apple has a change of heart) if people are expecting a 64-bit version of Photoshop. I'm sure Adobe will find ways to keep a 32-bit app that will still perform decently with gargantuan canvases...but Adobe will have to rewrite Photoshop or remain 32-bit forever (again, unless Apple feels Adobe's pain) and get overtaken by 2-man teams developing from their basements. Was Adobe really planning to keep a Carbon and 32-bit Photoshop forever? I think Apple's had it up to hear trying to support Adobe's poor decisions. Apple's gonna get fed up one day and stop supporting Carbon altogether. That day, Apple will release its own app and PS artists will have to decide to never upgrade ever again...move to Windows or move to Apple's app. And since Apple's gaining market share amongst students and Macs are finding their ways in homes, why would Apple care if half or all the Photoshop crowd moved to Windows? They'll lose some market share that will quickly be filled back up by non-professionals and possibly professionals that might find Apple's app as good or better than Photoshop.
I'm seeing Photoshop becoming super niche with Adobe losing lots of money that they would otherwise get through the 'dabblers'.
That statement says it. If it remained a "super niche" product, Adobe couldn't afford to support the way it does now.
But, that won't happen. They have Elements for those people you're talking about, and it's pretty good.
PS has also gotten easier to use over the past few years for those without much understanding of its more esoteric features. Adobe isn't stupid. They know there are a lot of people out there who use the program more for a viewer than anything else. Mostly art directors who know little of how to use the program, but want to see the images opened in it.
But, more and more pro's are being required by their clients to do the work that was done in labs, or by the ad staff. These people are finding that they must use PS, even thought all they want to do is to take the "clicks". That's also a reason why Adobe has added many features to the program that makes it easier to use, such as the Highlights/Shadows option. That made that difficult process much easier, and accounted for a good additional take-up of the program. Now, people no longer had to buy the plug-ins that did that (assuming they knew about them).
Camera Raw 4.2 has added quality enhancement features that solve otherwise difficult problems, such as the "recover" tool for extracting highlight detail. The chroma noise reduction tool works better than any other I've sampled. The lens corrections tools, while much simpler than those in DxO do a pretty good job of eliminating the most obvious of problems, etc.
Bridge has grown up as well becoming much more useful than its older version.
I'm not going to go into details here, because, as you know, that will take up a lot of room. But, anyone who really wants to see can download a 30 day free trial, and check for themselves.
I'm also not saying that it's perfect, nothing is.
As for 64 bit versions, if it's really needed, and demanded, it will come. So far, there is no evidence that it is. I wouldn't be surprised to know that Adobe is doing preliminary work on it.
As for 64 bit versions, if it's really needed, and demanded, it will come. So far, there is no evidence that it is. I wouldn't be surprised to know that Adobe is doing preliminary work on it.
You're saying you think Adobe is rewriting PS? I'd like to see that. With Cocoa being the requirement for 64-bit, Adobe's going to have one heck of a time rewriting it in a timely manner.
Photoshop is a brand so well known it's used as a verb. It isn't going anywhere. It's had competition on Windows since day 1 - Corel, Paintshop Pro - all of which suit 90% of Photoshop's "dabblers" but they don't use them. To suggest that a program like Pixelmator will get 10-15% of the market any time soon is highly unlikely. Programs like "The Gimp" which has been around for years and is 100% free and has the majority of Photoshop's feature have virtually no marketshare outside Linux...
The same was said about Internet Explorer and Windows...notice how Firefox and Safari are now on the map? Mac OS is gaining market share.
The Gimp is just terrible...don't even pull that on us. If you're gonna make me believe dabblers go out and pay 500+ dollars for a pro tool to make simple touch ups, you're sadly mistaken. These dabblers may had to do it a couple years ago with the lack of good and cheap image editors but now there's no shortage.
So most are dabblers (which would probably move to lower cost alternatives such as Acorn or Pixelmator as the feature set of these continues to increase) and you're saying Photoshop isn't going anywhere soon? I'm seeing Photoshop becoming super niche with Adobe losing lots of money that they would otherwise get through the 'dabblers'.
RAW and Lightroom are a matter of opinion obviously because lots of pros would disagree with you.
Ah...I never said Preview would replace anything. I know it will be fine for very basic home use and nothing else. I'm just saying that the day Apple decides to open up these easy to use tools (and whatever else it's working on) to developers, we'll see Photoshop's uses restricted to only the purists and the professional artists.
What would you say the ratio of dabblers to pros are?
If by Photoshop not going anywhere you meant it's not going anywhere. You'd be right.
well, photoshop was never really made for the dabblers. and most of the people who fall in that category pirate it anyway. so they're not going to be that adversely affected financially. with computers becoming more powerful there are certainly a lot more people who are interested in image manipulation, but a very low percentage of the people who use photoshop know how to do more than magic wands and clone tools.
for the professional end, photoshop isn't going to be overtaken for a very very long time. even if a product came out today that was vastly better in every way, it would probably still take five years for them to make a dent in this sector.
the ratio of pros to dabblers is astronomically low. probably 1 in a 1000 users are actual pros with any deeper understanding of the program. maybe even less. could those people be better served by a more intuitive image manipulation program? probably so. but again, most of them don't pay for photoshop anyway.
You're saying you think Adobe is rewriting PS? I'd like to see that. With Cocoa being the requirement for 64-bit, Adobe's going to have one heck of a time rewriting it in a timely manner.
I've had hints from them.
Since ver. 1, my company was a test site for Adobe, and I've been beta testing it ever since.
believe it or not, they actually do listen. It's very difficult, when a program becomes complex, to do everything people want. Menu's become difficult, etc.
Adobe isn't in the situation of sitting on their hands, or ignoring what was coming out of Apple, but the Apple supplied tools have been less than steller for companies with large, complex programs.
remember how Mathematicia was demoed that day when Apple announced the switch? It took a pretty long time, despite the optimistic pronouncement that day, for the program to come out.
Adobe has much more than one program, no matter how large. I think they did the right thing. Contacts there told me that if they were to have done Cocoa, it might still be in alpha.