France may not see iPhone this year - report

Posted:
in iPhone edited January 2014
Orange, the wireless arm of France Telecom, is reportedly contemplating the prospect of not being able to launch Apple Inc.'s iPhone handset in time for the holiday amid growing tensions between the two companies.



"The risk we're evaluating this week is that Apple crosses France off," Les Echos quoted a source at Orange as saying in its Friday edition.



The French daily said the difficulties stem from a French law that would require the Apple handset to be sold both with and without contracts. This law would reportedly undermine the iPhone's exclusivity for Orange and Apple's demand of up to 30 percent of voice and data revenues.



A spokesperson for France Telecom went on record last month in claiming that the carrier had reached an agreement with Apple to distribute the iPhone in France. The two firms were widely expected to announce launch plans during the final week of September along side Apple Expo Paris.



The Paris expo came and went without any such announcement, however. Meanwhile, Apple along with partners O2 and T-mobile officially announced plans to roll out the handset next month in the U.K. and Germany, respectively.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 98
    deanbardeanbar Posts: 113member
    You would have thought that Apple's lawyers would have looked into this early on. Another poster from Belgium previously said that it was illegal to sell locked phones there also. Seems strange for this to rear its head so late in the day. Perhaps Apple were just getting too greedy in the end. They certainly seem to be getting more and more that way, much the same as Microsoft.



    You would think this would be one of the first things their marketing people investigated.
  • Reply 2 of 98
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member
    I'd like to see the laws everywhere force the independence of the phone you buy from the carrier you use it with. Then Apple would have to choose between selling a phone that anyone can use with any carrier (at least signal-compatible carrier -- at this point, that's any GSM carrier) and not selling a phone at all.



    I'm sure Apple could still make lots and lots of money selling a phones in a much more open market.
  • Reply 3 of 98
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    It almost doesn't make sense for that to stop the deal. I think it makes more sense to offer an unlocked unit at double the price, some would go to Apple, some would go to the official local iPhone carrier anyway.



    The only problem is that it would provide a template for independent unlocking. the best thing I can think of to stop that is put in a minor change in the hardware that differentiate the two so that an independent unlocker would have to get inside and risk breaking the phone anyway.
  • Reply 4 of 98
    ajmasajmas Posts: 601member
    The sort of issues Apple is experiencing in France, is going to be noticed in some other European countries too. Heck, in Belgium you aren't even allowed to sell a locked phone.



    Apple is going to quickly learn that when it comes to telecoms, the west of the world plays differently than North America. I think it is time they woke up and changed their business model, with regards to the iPhone.
  • Reply 5 of 98
    zozo Posts: 3,117member
    HAHAHAHAHA



    FU APPLE



    FREE THE DAMN iPHONE ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Reply 6 of 98
    kavikkavik Posts: 37member
    The dilemma for Apple is that allowing unlocked phones in France jeopardizes their exclusivity deals elsewhere, particularly for Europe. Why lock yourself into a 2-year contract with O2 or T-Mobile (in the UK and Germany, respectively) when you can head to France (for some a short drive/flight/rail trip) and buy the unlocked version and use a cheapo prepaid SIM from the corner store. And you know there will be heavy international eBay trade in officially unlocked iPhones from France if this happens.
  • Reply 7 of 98
    ajmasajmas Posts: 601member
    How long are the exlusivity contracts until?



    I wonder whether they could add firmware to 'unlocked' versions that would prevent them using SIMs with companies they have signed exclusivity contracts with. I admit this would be convoluted, but maybe a compromise solution.
  • Reply 8 of 98
    rot'napplerot'napple Posts: 1,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by deanbar View Post


    You would have thought that Apple's lawyers would have looked into this early on. Another poster from Belgium previously said that it was illegal to sell locked phones there also. Seems strange for this to rear its head so late in the day. Perhaps Apple were just getting too greedy in the end. They certainly seem to be getting more and more that way, much the same as Microsoft.



    You would think this would be one of the first things their marketing people investigated.



    It wouldn't have mattered. If there was no law to begin with, what's to stop the French government to create a law after the fact. Didn't the French lawmakers do something similar with regards to the iPod and then had to alter it's law or something?!
  • Reply 9 of 98
    taskisstaskiss Posts: 1,212member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ZO View Post


    HAHAHAHAHA



    FU APPLE



    FREE THE DAMN iPHONE ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



    France has 53 million mobile cellular customers, the EU (without France) has 413 million, the USA has 233 million. Not having France as a market doesn't really matter, as I see it.
  • Reply 10 of 98
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post


    France has 53 million mobile cellular customers, the EU (without France) has 413 million, the USA has 233 million. Not having France as a market doesn't really matter, as I see it.



    Not all of the member states of the EU are as affluent as France, so France's 53 million customers are disproportionately valuable as potential iPhone users. You'd walk away from a customer base that is nearly a quarter of the size as your domestic base? You're an idiot!



    It can be argued that Apple caved in to the oppressive demands of AT&T to get the iPhone launched in the US. Now that its initial success has been proven, Apple has no need to agree to the restrictive terms that we've accepted.
  • Reply 11 of 98
    taskisstaskiss Posts: 1,212member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post


    You'd walk away from a customer base that is nearly a quarter of the size as your domestic base? You're an idiot!



    Perhaps you're right.



    Perhaps Apple should start selling Mac's with Windows installed, too. Just drop OS X all together. After all, it's all about the domestic base, right?



    Then again, I believe that sometimes you have to walk away from doing business with someone if you don't want to make the concessions they demand you make. If that's the case, then perhaps you're not right.
  • Reply 12 of 98
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by deanbar View Post


    You would have thought that Apple's lawyers would have looked into this early on. Another poster from Belgium previously said that it was illegal to sell locked phones there also. Seems strange for this to rear its head so late in the day. Perhaps Apple were just getting too greedy in the end. They certainly seem to be getting more and more that way, much the same as Microsoft.



    You would think this would be one of the first things their marketing people investigated.



    Yup you're right - as i said previously SIM lock and coupled sales (hardware + subscription in one go) are totally against the law in Belgium. It will be interesting to see how they will get around this....



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    It almost doesn't make sense for that to stop the deal. I think it makes more sense to offer an unlocked unit at double the price, some would go to Apple, some would go to the official local iPhone carrier anyway.



    Ah and this is where the french law kicks "you" in the teeth - the phone needs to be offered at the same price. After all the bally-ho Apple did that they did NOT want cross subsidies, anyone that can read knows that stance. And the french consumer body is already looking at it with pleasure. Their comment was "Apple or no Apple - no one is above the law"

  • Reply 13 of 98
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post


    Didn't the French lawmakers do something similar with regards to the iPod and then had to alter it's law or something?!



    No that pertained to capping the volume level on iPods as legislations stipulates that the noise level shall not be above 105 (or 100 dB). But you can unblock it afterwards.



    France is particular anyway : Red Bull is illegal there -too much caffeine...



    But they DID send some troops to the US to fight of the colonial Brits and sold you Louisiana....
  • Reply 14 of 98
    This news is not good for Apple to meet their own sales projections, and it is not good for revenue... on the other hand, I have no idea why AAPL is up almost 4 points this morning...
  • Reply 15 of 98
    The main reason for buying an unlocked iphone is to get one when you live in a country where you can't buy them yet. All Apple has to do is delay the sale of unlocked units until all the other countries are offering iphones.



    The exclusivity deals will be a little less lucrative, but that's out of Apple's control. They can't change the law and I doubt that they will just leave out all the countries that have laws requiring the sale of unlocked phones. Besides, their phones are already being unlocked in the U.S. so the issue is moot.
  • Reply 16 of 98
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,727member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post


    Perhaps Apple should start selling Mac's with Windows installed, too. Just drop OS X all together.



    How is that analogy even relevant? Let's see: Mac = iPhone ... ok, that works ... Mac OS X = exclusive carrier ... huh?



    Locking a Mac into Mac OS X is equivalent to locking the iPhone to, well, Mac OS X (iPhone version).



    The analogy that really fits here would be locking a Mac to a particular internet service provider. Now just imagine that... people would think it's absurd, there would be outrage. Yet, because of how the cellular industry has developed, it's just accepted by everyone that phones can be locked to a particular cellular service provider.



    This is exactly the reason why I've always hated cell phones and continue to use them as sparingly as possible. Because literally every time you press a damn button on them it's costing you money. And every single phone has different user interface (and incompatible add-ons), and may or may not work with your computer. It's such a joke industry.



    My wife is shopping for a new phone and it's ridiculously complicated trying to figure out which networks it will work on, whether you can use it in other countries easily, whether it will sync with her Mac.



    I for one am glad the OpenMoko project is finally coming to fruition (even if it lacks some features still). I'm looking forward to the day where a cell phone is as open as a computer (ie. you can choose any service provider, it works on any network, choose any add-ons, sync with it in a standard way, etc).
  • Reply 17 of 98
    rolorolo Posts: 686member
    Apple might as well offer unlocked phones in Europe and just charge more for them. Locked: $399, unlocked: $599. The Nokia N-95 is unlocked but it costs $700.



    France might as well be written off by Apple, though, since they have such screwed up laws. Look at all the crap Apple had to go through with iTunes. Beaucoup de merde.
  • Reply 18 of 98
    aaarrrggghaaarrrgggh Posts: 1,609member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post


    Perhaps you're right.



    Perhaps Apple should start selling Mac's with Windows installed, too. Just drop OS X all together. After all, it's all about the domestic base, right?



    Then again, I believe that sometimes you have to walk away from doing business with someone if you don't want to make the concessions they demand you make. If that's the case, then perhaps you're not right.



    There are a couple simple problems with that logic.



    Western Europe is the prime market for the iPhone as it stands today. Language support is too limited for it to make it commercially viable in most of Asia, and price is likely to cause it to fail in much of eastern Europe from a mass-market perspective.



    Suddenly, out of the 1B phones sold a year, Apple's market penetration drops significantly to the point that they would need an impossible share in the US, UK, and Germany to pull it off. Commercially, their current strategy is bound to fail at some point. They will have to sell them unlocked in enough of the world that they might as well just charge an extra $200 for an unlocked version now and be done with it. The initial uptake is really what they need to grab in a country, but 5-year exclusivity is stupid.
  • Reply 19 of 98
    citycity Posts: 522member
    It time to retalliate! If France is going to essentially outlaw a United States product to protect a market, then they can drink their wine-all of it.
  • Reply 20 of 98
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,727member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rolo View Post


    Apple might as well offer unlocked phones in Europe and just charge more for them. Locked: $399, unlocked: $599.



    Right, because the extra cost is justified by the amount of work it takes them to unlock it. That makes sense.

    Quote:

    France might as well be written off by Apple, though, since they have such screwed up laws. Look at all the crap Apple had to go through with iTunes. Beaucoup de merde.



    Right, because having phones locked to a particular provider is the way things are supposed to be. God forbid any other country creates laws which differ from the ones passed down by the almighty himself in the USA. One god, one truth, one market, one culture.
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