I think they sold 50,000 units before they discontinued the hardware and went to a software only strategy, which was also failing.
This was a typical Jobs fantasy.
When I was looking for a new computer (and OS) in the beginning of the '90's, I looked at Next. My work involved publishing, photography, and graphics.
They had three models. All very expensive compared to even Mac's. The least expensive model, the B/W, cost more than Apple's highest end machine by a good margin.
The first was an 8 bit B/W model. The second was a 16 bit color model, and the last was a 24 bit color model.
In typical Jobsian fashion, none of the models could be upgraded to any of the higher end models. What you bought was what you ended up with.
I bought a Mac 950 instead. Good thing too.
I don't know about that 50k number. In any case you do realize that NeXT was not allowed to sell models that might compete with Apple products. The Cube and NeXT Stations were sold to academics for whom they were bargains. The software alone made it worthwhile and certainly far more cost effective than Apple's "high-end" stuff running OS7. In all probabilty OpenStep ended up saving Apple. Not bad for a fantasy.
The Cube was in fact upgradeable in the sense that one could easily swap out the mainboard. Thus you could go from the original to the 040. Wonderful system, way ahead of its time.
I can't understand this obsession with upgradeability. It works for PC hobbyists (of which I am one) but the support costs for a company like Apple would be huge.
I'm still "mad" at NeXT for going white but I must admit that Jobs has been right more often than not. The software only route that NeXT took (and the transition was incredibly fast) led to Rhapsody and what we now call OSX.
I don't know about that 50k number. In any case you do realize that NeXT was not allowed to sell models that might compete with Apple products. The Cube and NeXT Stations were sold to academics for whom they were bargains. The software alone made it worthwhile and certainly far more cost effective than Apple's "high-end" stuff running OS7. In all probabilty OpenStep ended up saving Apple. Not bad for a fantasy.
The Cube was in fact upgradeable in the sense that one could easily swap out the mainboard. Thus you could go from the original to the 040. Wonderful system, way ahead of its time.
I can't understand this obsession with upgradeability. It works for PC hobbyists (of which I am one) but the support costs for a company like Apple would be huge.
I'm still "mad" at NeXT for going white but I must admit that Jobs has been right more often than not. The software only route that NeXT took (and the transition was incredibly fast) led to Rhapsody and what we now call OSX.
philip
The 50k number is about right.
I just looked it up in the Wiki, to confirm what I had said, and it is correct.
Someone else already pointed out that the mini has optical out (I think all Macs have it now?), but also, the AppleTV can not do 5.1 surround, which is a MAJOR drawback. It can do 4 channel matrix surround (mixing it down to a 2 channel signal), but that technology is decades old. It can not do discrete, 5.1 channel sound, at least not in any way that current home theater receivers can work with (it can theoretically do 5.1 AAC, I think, that that will get you nothing).
AppleTV is able to pass 5.1 sound through the Toslink port, as long as it is encoded as "lossless". I'm not quite sure what you have to go through when ripping a dvd to get to that point. You would think that either handbrake or QuickTime Pro could do that. That's either DTS or AC3, which your reciever should be able to handle the input provided it has the requisite port.
The four channel sound gets mixed down to 2 channel, but a reciever that can handle pro logic surround can "unmix" the signal. It then separates the back channel into two individual channels and sends the low freq to the subwoofer channel. In theory, this is almost like 5.1. Almost being the operative word.
Itunes uses 4 channel for file size considerations, from what I've read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander
The AppleTV has been shown to be able to pass the surround sound signal through... though it requires some interesting tricks in the encoding (interesting enough that the various transcoders don't let you easily do it afaik)
It would be quite easy for Apple to open up a pass through of the signal (like a DVD player), though apparently the mp4.10 file standard doesn't accept Dolby Digital... so most amps wouldn't know how to decode the AAC surround. Some people have said the AppleTV has a transcoding chip onboard that will convert the AAC surround to Dolby Digital surround, I'm not sure if it's true, or if that's an easy enough process.
Apple has got its preferred h.264 and 5.1AAC formats adopted for HD-DVD and Bluray. You would expect receivers in the future to handle the AAC format without issues, if it is the new standard.
AppleTV is able to pass 5.1 sound through the Toslink port, as long as it is encoded as "lossless". I'm not quite sure what you have to go through when ripping a dvd to get to that point. You would think that either handbrake or QuickTime Pro could do that. That's either DTS or AC3, which your reciever should be able to handle the input provided it has the requisite port.
The four channel sound gets mixed down to 2 channel, but a reciever that can handle pro logic surround can "unmix" the signal. It then separates the back channel into two individual channels and sends the low freq to the subwoofer channel. In theory, this is almost like 5.1. Almost being the operative word.
It's definitely a lossy process, but a lot of people seem fine with it.
Quote:
Apple has got its preferred h.264 and 5.1AAC formats adopted for HD-DVD and Bluray. You would expect receivers in the future to handle the AAC format without issues, if it is the new standard.
I have yet to see any Blu-Ray or HD-DVD use 5.1 AAC. With the availability of TrueHD and DD+ formats, it really doesn't make that much sense yet to push a new home theater audio codec. I think decoded lossless surround can be pushed through HDMI, then Apple can still use AAC even if it doesn't become a popular feature in receivers.
I have yet to see any Blu-Ray or HD-DVD use 5.1 AAC. With the availability of TrueHD and DD+ formats, it really doesn't make that much sense yet to push a new home theater audio codec. I think decoded lossless surround can be pushed through HDMI, then Apple can still use AAC even if it doesn't become a popular feature in receivers.
I might be all messed-up, but....
MPEG-4 is one of the madatory "container" formats for both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. My understanding is that AAC is the audio "sub-container", but not an actual codec like TrueHD,etc.
So, AppleTV decodes only a few formats (aac, mp3, wav and apple lossless) but can pass-through others without decoding them.
Don't know about surround being pushed through HDMI, other than it's supposed to be a standard feature of HDMI. Knowing Apple, they could have changed the implementation.
Apple has got its preferred h.264 and 5.1AAC formats adopted for HD-DVD and Bluray. You would expect receivers in the future to handle the AAC format without issues, if it is the new standard.
So, it should handle all of the major formats.
I don't know of many receivers which decode 5.1 AAC natively. And while it _may_ be true that future receivers will handle AAC, the expense of changing my existing system would mean that I'd buy a different media player. And in 5 years time I'd re-evaluate the AppleTV.
Besides, AAC 5.1 is supposed to be convertable into DD 5.1, satisfying exactly this problem.
Apple often is 'forward thinking', but sometimes this can be a problem. Making the AppleTV 16:9 only is an example of this.
OK, this I want. It's retro and futuristic at the same time. I love it, great concept. I'd want most of the ports on the back though, rather than the side.
What do you do for audio from the mini? The AppleTV with its toslink is supposidly able to produce the 5.1 from ripped content....being the mini dosnt have fiber, are you limited to stereo only from the audio out port?
The MacMini as the MacBook, have dual Analog/Digital In/Out ports.
Comments
Remind me again, how were their computer sales?
Not bad given the constraints they were under. Obviously NeXT did well enough to eventually take over Apple
philip
I think they sold 50,000 units before they discontinued the hardware and went to a software only strategy, which was also failing.
This was a typical Jobs fantasy.
When I was looking for a new computer (and OS) in the beginning of the '90's, I looked at Next. My work involved publishing, photography, and graphics.
They had three models. All very expensive compared to even Mac's. The least expensive model, the B/W, cost more than Apple's highest end machine by a good margin.
The first was an 8 bit B/W model. The second was a 16 bit color model, and the last was a 24 bit color model.
In typical Jobsian fashion, none of the models could be upgraded to any of the higher end models. What you bought was what you ended up with.
I bought a Mac 950 instead. Good thing too.
I don't know about that 50k number. In any case you do realize that NeXT was not allowed to sell models that might compete with Apple products. The Cube and NeXT Stations were sold to academics for whom they were bargains. The software alone made it worthwhile and certainly far more cost effective than Apple's "high-end" stuff running OS7. In all probabilty OpenStep ended up saving Apple. Not bad for a fantasy.
The Cube was in fact upgradeable in the sense that one could easily swap out the mainboard. Thus you could go from the original to the 040. Wonderful system, way ahead of its time.
I can't understand this obsession with upgradeability. It works for PC hobbyists (of which I am one) but the support costs for a company like Apple would be huge.
I'm still "mad" at NeXT for going white but I must admit that Jobs has been right more often than not. The software only route that NeXT took (and the transition was incredibly fast) led to Rhapsody and what we now call OSX.
philip
I don't know about that 50k number. In any case you do realize that NeXT was not allowed to sell models that might compete with Apple products. The Cube and NeXT Stations were sold to academics for whom they were bargains. The software alone made it worthwhile and certainly far more cost effective than Apple's "high-end" stuff running OS7. In all probabilty OpenStep ended up saving Apple. Not bad for a fantasy.
The Cube was in fact upgradeable in the sense that one could easily swap out the mainboard. Thus you could go from the original to the 040. Wonderful system, way ahead of its time.
I can't understand this obsession with upgradeability. It works for PC hobbyists (of which I am one) but the support costs for a company like Apple would be huge.
I'm still "mad" at NeXT for going white but I must admit that Jobs has been right more often than not. The software only route that NeXT took (and the transition was incredibly fast) led to Rhapsody and what we now call OSX.
philip
The 50k number is about right.
I just looked it up in the Wiki, to confirm what I had said, and it is correct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXT
Swapping must have come right at the end of the hardware era, because you certainly couldn't upgrade them for most of the time they were available.
Someone else already pointed out that the mini has optical out (I think all Macs have it now?), but also, the AppleTV can not do 5.1 surround, which is a MAJOR drawback. It can do 4 channel matrix surround (mixing it down to a 2 channel signal), but that technology is decades old. It can not do discrete, 5.1 channel sound, at least not in any way that current home theater receivers can work with (it can theoretically do 5.1 AAC, I think, that that will get you nothing).
AppleTV is able to pass 5.1 sound through the Toslink port, as long as it is encoded as "lossless". I'm not quite sure what you have to go through when ripping a dvd to get to that point. You would think that either handbrake or QuickTime Pro could do that. That's either DTS or AC3, which your reciever should be able to handle the input provided it has the requisite port.
The four channel sound gets mixed down to 2 channel, but a reciever that can handle pro logic surround can "unmix" the signal. It then separates the back channel into two individual channels and sends the low freq to the subwoofer channel. In theory, this is almost like 5.1. Almost being the operative word.
Itunes uses 4 channel for file size considerations, from what I've read.
The AppleTV has been shown to be able to pass the surround sound signal through... though it requires some interesting tricks in the encoding (interesting enough that the various transcoders don't let you easily do it afaik)
It would be quite easy for Apple to open up a pass through of the signal (like a DVD player), though apparently the mp4.10 file standard doesn't accept Dolby Digital... so most amps wouldn't know how to decode the AAC surround. Some people have said the AppleTV has a transcoding chip onboard that will convert the AAC surround to Dolby Digital surround, I'm not sure if it's true, or if that's an easy enough process.
Apple has got its preferred h.264 and 5.1AAC formats adopted for HD-DVD and Bluray. You would expect receivers in the future to handle the AAC format without issues, if it is the new standard.
So, it should handle all of the major formats.
AppleTV is able to pass 5.1 sound through the Toslink port, as long as it is encoded as "lossless". I'm not quite sure what you have to go through when ripping a dvd to get to that point. You would think that either handbrake or QuickTime Pro could do that. That's either DTS or AC3, which your reciever should be able to handle the input provided it has the requisite port.
The four channel sound gets mixed down to 2 channel, but a reciever that can handle pro logic surround can "unmix" the signal. It then separates the back channel into two individual channels and sends the low freq to the subwoofer channel. In theory, this is almost like 5.1. Almost being the operative word.
It's definitely a lossy process, but a lot of people seem fine with it.
Apple has got its preferred h.264 and 5.1AAC formats adopted for HD-DVD and Bluray. You would expect receivers in the future to handle the AAC format without issues, if it is the new standard.
I have yet to see any Blu-Ray or HD-DVD use 5.1 AAC. With the availability of TrueHD and DD+ formats, it really doesn't make that much sense yet to push a new home theater audio codec. I think decoded lossless surround can be pushed through HDMI, then Apple can still use AAC even if it doesn't become a popular feature in receivers.
I have yet to see any Blu-Ray or HD-DVD use 5.1 AAC. With the availability of TrueHD and DD+ formats, it really doesn't make that much sense yet to push a new home theater audio codec. I think decoded lossless surround can be pushed through HDMI, then Apple can still use AAC even if it doesn't become a popular feature in receivers.
I might be all messed-up, but....
MPEG-4 is one of the madatory "container" formats for both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. My understanding is that AAC is the audio "sub-container", but not an actual codec like TrueHD,etc.
So, AppleTV decodes only a few formats (aac, mp3, wav and apple lossless) but can pass-through others without decoding them.
Don't know about surround being pushed through HDMI, other than it's supposed to be a standard feature of HDMI. Knowing Apple, they could have changed the implementation.
Apple has got its preferred h.264 and 5.1AAC formats adopted for HD-DVD and Bluray. You would expect receivers in the future to handle the AAC format without issues, if it is the new standard.
So, it should handle all of the major formats.
I don't know of many receivers which decode 5.1 AAC natively. And while it _may_ be true that future receivers will handle AAC, the expense of changing my existing system would mean that I'd buy a different media player. And in 5 years time I'd re-evaluate the AppleTV.
Besides, AAC 5.1 is supposed to be convertable into DD 5.1, satisfying exactly this problem.
Apple often is 'forward thinking', but sometimes this can be a problem. Making the AppleTV 16:9 only is an example of this.
OK, this I want. It's retro and futuristic at the same time. I love it, great concept. I'd want most of the ports on the back though, rather than the side.
Sure. Till you spill beer on it.
What do you do for audio from the mini? The AppleTV with its toslink is supposidly able to produce the 5.1 from ripped content....being the mini dosnt have fiber, are you limited to stereo only from the audio out port?
The MacMini as the MacBook, have dual Analog/Digital In/Out ports.
You get 5.1 just as the AppleTv.