New Apple Cinema Display?

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  • Reply 61 of 193
    gugygugy Posts: 794member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Messiah View Post


    the 23" always had a pink cast and seemed to suffer from a lot of pixel anomalies. I've yet to meet a 30" user who hasn't experienced the dancing pixels 'characteristic'.





    I have both and I have no idea what are you talking about. The two monitors I have are perfect and I highly recommend. Specially the 30". Fantastic!
  • Reply 62 of 193
    idaveidave Posts: 1,283member
    My 23 had the pink cast which got worse over time. It was one of the first ones made though and I think that issue was resolved with the later models.



    I recently bought a 30" HP, after tiring of waiting for Apple to upgrade theirs. The HP is a great display, and cheaper, although not quite as "pretty" as Apple's.
  • Reply 63 of 193
    irelandireland Posts: 17,669member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Messiah View Post


    Whilst the product design of the Cinema Display family hasn't changed since they were launched a few years ago, the actual panels employed have been revised several times. Does anybody know how the panels employed in the current line-up compare with the competition?



    I've been impressed with the 20" in the past, but the 23" always had a pink cast and seemed to suffer from a lot of pixel anomalies. I've yet to meet a 30" user who hasn't experienced the dancing pixels 'characteristic'.



    All I know it this is a recent comment from a chat I had with a designer:

    Quote:

    I am getting an HP screen over the ACD it has 20% more color gamut, 33% better contrast and it's 30% cheaper, and 1 inch larger.



  • Reply 64 of 193
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    All I know it this is a recent comment from a chat I had with a designer:



    http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16824176059



    HP LP2465 Carbonite-Black 24" 6 ms (typical gray to gray) DVI Widescreen LCD Monitor with Height & Pivot Adjustments 500 cd/m2 1000:1 - Retail




    $609.99



    Model

    Brand \tHP

    Model \tLP2465

    Cabinet Color \tCarbonite-Black

    Display

    Screen Size \t24"

    Widescreen \tYes

    Maximum Resolution \t1920 x 1200

    Recommended Resolution \t1920 x 1200

    Viewing Angle \t178°(H) / 178°(V)

    Pixel Pitch \t0.27mm

    Display Colors \t16.7 Million

    Brightness \t500 cd/m2

    Contrast Ratio \t1000:1

    Response Time \t6 ms (typical gray to gray)

    Horizontal Refresh Rate \t30 to 94 kHz (VGA input); 30 to 92 KHz (DVI input)

    Vertical Refresh Rate \t48 to 85 Hz

    Panel \tActive Matrix, TFT LCD

    Display Type \tWUXGA



    Connectivity

    Input Video Compatibility \tDigital

    Connectors \tDVI

    DVI \t2 (DVI-I Dual-link)

    HDMI \tNo

    USB 2.0 \t1 upstream, 4 downstream ports



    Power

    Power Supply \tAuto-Ranging, 90 to 132 VAC and 195 to 265 VAC; internal power supply, 50 Hz/60 Hz

    Power Consumption \tMaximum: < 100 W; Power Saving: < 2 W



    Convenience

    User Controls \tButtons or Switches:

    Input Select, Auto Adjust, OSD Up, OSD Down, OSD Menu Select, Power

    Languages:

    English, French, German, Spanish, Italian, Japanese, Dutch

    User Controls:

    Brightness, contrast, positioning, color temperature, individual color control, serial number display, full screen resolutions, clock, clock phase, input selection (includes separate direct access key for dedicated swap between inputs 1 and 2), factory reset



    Regulatory Approvals
    \tAustralian ACA Approval, Canadian Requirements/CSA, CE Marking, China CCIB/CCEE Approval, CISPR Requirements, Eastern European Approvals, Energy Star Compliant, FCC Approval, German Ergonomic (TUV and GS Mark), ISO 9241-3,7,8 VDT Guidelines, ISO 13406-2 Pixel Defect Guidelines, Mexican NOM Approval, MIC Requirements (New Zealand), MPR-II Compliant, Nordic Approvals (Nemko, Fimko, Demko, Semko), PC2001 Compliant, PC99 Certified, S. Korean MIC Approval, Taiwan BSMI Approval, TCO 03 (emissions, ergonomics, environment), TUV-Ergo, UL Listed, VCCI Approvals, Microsoft Windows Certification (Microsoft Windows 98, Microsoft Windows 2000, and Microsoft Windows XP)



    Stand Adjustments \tHeight, Pivot, Swivel, Tilt

    Built in TV Tuner \tNo

    Built in Speakers \tNo

    Features \tAnti-glare, Anti-static, Plug and Play

    Windows Vista \tWorks with

    Packaging

    Package Contents \tLP2465 LCD Monitor

    2 x VGA to DVI Cable

    2 x DVI Cable

    Power Cable

    USB Cable

    User Manual

    Support Disk



    Dimensions

    Dimensions (W×H×D) \t14.6" x 22.0" x 9.1" (with stand)

    Weight \t23.6 lbs.

    Temperature Range \t46°F to 95°F (10° to 35° C)

    Humidity Range \t20% to 80% non-condensing

    Manufacturer Warranty

    Parts \t3 years limited

    Labor \t3 years limited



    I'd buy this before I'd buy a 23" Cinema Display.
  • Reply 65 of 193
    Ok I have few questions for you.



    First – do you understand that Cinema displays is a product that supposed to be targeted for the design market? Coz if you don’t do design or video or photo you go for iMac… And from this point of view today apple displays are absolutely out-of-date, low contrast, bad color reproduction, and no LED, those three things are at the first priority, not size or camera. NEC and EIZO already had models better more than two years ago.



    Second question is about the resolution, how are you going to render the text and read the web with a 20 inches monitor with a resolution not native for pc? I mean there are standards, would really like to know hove the Resolution Independence works.. I mean “would prefer a 20" monitor with 2560x1600” – what for?





    PS: design pro would never go for HP – they don’t have a professional product line, only big screens.
  • Reply 66 of 193
    idaveidave Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by takemura View Post


    I mean there are standards, would really like to know hove the Resolution Independence works.. I mean “would prefer a 20" monitor with 2560x1600” – what for?



    PS: design pro would never go for HP – they don’t have a professional product line, only big screens.



    With resolution independence, which should be coming to OS X by next year, interface elements can be scaled so that they are the same size, regardless of the resolution of the display. So, if you have a very high resolution display, say 150-200 pixels per inch, all of the icons, palettes, etc are the same size they would be at lower resolution.



    The principal advantage (in my mind) to high resolution displays is that text looks very sharp on screen, much like a printed page, instead of pixelated as it does on most current displays.



    Regarding your P.S., you'd be surprised. Designers will go for what they can afford. A lot of the specs mean nothing to most people, including designers. Why do you say HP displays are not "professional," whatever that means? They're as good as most and better than some.
  • Reply 67 of 193
    Text in high resolution should look better but it happens if you apply printing rules to it, what if the text is a picture button on the web site for example with standard 75 dpi resolution, if font size is set in pixels, or pt, it isn’t sharpener it is smaller. And text looks pixilated only on low quality monitors. More over images you see on the net are not vector, and the source you see is originally 75 dpi, so the monitor with higher resolution but with the same size lets say 20 inches will have either stretch them or show them small... I don’t see the solution here for me 17 inches with 1280 x 1024 (native is 1024x768, they play with it a bit, now17inches notebooks come with something more than 1024 but less than 1280, but it is a notebook it is about information you get on the screen, when you work it isn't just space there should be an accuracy) is not a comfortable thing to use, not if you work with pixel art or web design just for surfing or games you may not care…

    Resolution independence if it works as you say should solve the problem but it should be an amazing piece of genius software and a display should be of a very high quality. And it should be an open standard, apple displays are for now DVI enabled and it is a universal standard so if the resolution advantages will work on mac but not under windows it wouldn't be a nice product design. So I personally don’t belive in 20 inches with resolution nearly twice as it should be.



    HP monitors are a big player on US market, but they are low quality, and most of all color reproduction is ok for games and movies not for photo editing or preprint preparation. NEC, EIZO, led display from Samsung is not bad, but not great, apple displays were nice for the first year and a half aprox. I mean that time every manufacturer including Sony had the same problems with matrix and colors on their screens larger 17 - 19 inches.
  • Reply 68 of 193
    idaveidave Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by takemura View Post


    And text looks pixilated only on low quality monitors.



    I disagree. I can see sharper text on a MacBook 13" display which is only slightly higher resolution than most other displays. MacBooks aren't known for having the highest quality displays. This has little to do with the "quality" of the monitor and a lot to do with the resolution.



    Resolution independence is a big deal and as you point out, there are a lot of complications. Apple has been working on the issues with developers for some time. Some interface elements might be vector art and some might be high quality bit maps; all scaleable. Images on the web for the time being will probably just look smaller. Be assured, higher resolution displays are coming. We won't remain stuck at 100 ppi forever. I suspect it will be a slow transition, starting at perhaps a 25% increase on nicer monitors. The suggested 2560 on a 20" monitor would be more like 50% higher. I don't think that's going to happen for several years.



    Finally, I won't argue the merits of displays from various manufacturers. I'm no expert. I will say however, my subjective opinion is that the HP I just bought is a far sight better than the ACD I had for three years before it. In my research before the purchase, it seemed that the HPs were pretty highly regarded. It sounds like you're not happy with displays from any manufacturer.
  • Reply 69 of 193
    mcarlingmcarling Posts: 1,106member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by takemura View Post


    Text in high resolution should look better but it happens if you apply printing rules to it, what if the text is a picture button on the web site for example with standard 75 dpi resolution, if font size is set in pixels, or pt, it isn?t sharpener it is smaller. ... More over images you see on the net are not vector, and the source you see is originally 75 dpi, so the monitor with higher resolution but with the same size lets say 20 inches will have either stretch them or show them small...



    That's why one would set a different scale factor for one's browser than for most other applications. Over time, more graphics on the web will be vector graphics and fewer will be raster graphics.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by takemura View Post


    Resolution independence if it works as you say should solve the problem but it should be an amazing piece of genius software and a display should be of a very high quality. And it should be an open standard, apple displays are for now DVI enabled and it is a universal standard so if the resolution advantages will work on mac but not under windows it wouldn't be a nice product design. So I personally don?t belive in 20 inches with resolution nearly twice as it should be.



    There are open standards for vector graphics on the web. As for Microsoft doing anything like Resolution Independence, I think that will be two major operating systems after Vista.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iDave View Post


    Resolution independence is a big deal and as you point out, there are a lot of complications. Apple has been working on the issues with developers for some time. Some interface elements might be vector art and some might be high quality bit maps; all scaleable. Images on the web for the time being will probably just look smaller.



    No, images on the web will be scaled by a user selectable scaling factor. The user sets a default scaling factor for everything that will be chosen based on the pixel density of the monitor and the user's preference. Each application can have its own scaling factor and the browser would need to override the system default to keep everything from being too small. Same with old applications that developers have not prepared for Resolution Independence.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iDave View Post


    Be assured, higher resolution displays are coming. We won't remain stuck at 100 ppi forever. I suspect it will be a slow transition, starting at perhaps a 25% increase on nicer monitors. The suggested 2560 on a 20" monitor would be more like 50% higher. I don't think that's going to happen for several years.



    I don't think so. I think we'll see a fairly sudden availability of monitors from Apple with at least about 150dpi in order to really show off Resolution Independence. 250dpi LCDs are shipping now. The main reason the price is high is because volumes are very low.
  • Reply 70 of 193
    The online Apple Store is missing monitors. Currently, the only monitor offered is the 20" in the refurbished section. Not really sure what this means.



    Pardon my ignorance, they have hidden the displays under accesories and are not highlighting them in the foreground with the more "popular" products.
  • Reply 71 of 193
    idaveidave Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by genejockey2000 View Post


    The online Apple Store is missing monitors. Currently, the only monitor offered is the 20" in the refurbished section. Not really sure what this means.



    Pardon my ignorance, they have hidden the displays under accesories and are not highlighting them in the foreground with the more "popular" products.



    I noticed recently that displays aren't on the first page anymore. I guess Apple is embarrassed by them.
  • Reply 72 of 193
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mcarling View Post


    That's why one would set a different scale factor for one's browser than for most other applications. Over time, more graphics on the web will be vector graphics and fewer will be raster graphics.





    There are open standards for vector graphics on the web. As for Microsoft doing anything like Resolution Independence, I think that will be two major operating systems after Vista.





    No, images on the web will be scaled by a user selectable scaling factor. The user sets a default scaling factor for everything that will be chosen based on the pixel density of the monitor and the user's preference. Each application can have its own scaling factor and the browser would need to override the system default to keep everything from being too small. Same with old applications that developers have not prepared for Resolution Independence.





    I don't think so. I think we'll see a fairly sudden availability of monitors from Apple with at least about 150dpi in order to really show off Resolution Independence. 250dpi LCDs are shipping now. The main reason the price is high is because volumes are very low.



    Show me the large manufacturers who have 250ppi LCDs that aren't less than 10" or on a smart phone.
  • Reply 73 of 193
    nceencee Posts: 836member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by genejockey2000 View Post


    The online Apple Store is missing monitors. Currently, the only monitor offered is the 20" in the refurbished section. Not really sure what this means.



    Pardon my ignorance, they have hidden the displays under accesories and are not highlighting them in the foreground with the more "popular" products.



    The monitros still show up when you go to "Config" your new mac?



    Skip
  • Reply 74 of 193
    If they bring new ACD with cameras in them, they would need to provide some kind of system to disablem some of them, imagine you have 3 of them doing ichat and what then ? Seeing yourself in 3d with these 3 camera's switching on simultanely ?
  • Reply 75 of 193
    idaveidave Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sternone View Post


    Seeing yourself in 3d with these 3 camera's switching on simultanely ?



    Cool!
  • Reply 76 of 193
    Personally, I'd like something that runs a little cooler. The current ACD always scares me when i feel it and almost get burned.
  • Reply 77 of 193
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post


    Given the extremely poor value the ACDs currently represent, I'd just go with an HP or Dell monitor, and get a USB web cam.



    Indeed, it's a sad state of affairs. I love the look of the ACDs, but they are a good 50% more expensive than their rivals.
  • Reply 78 of 193
    messiahmessiah Posts: 1,689member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gugy View Post


    I have both and I have no idea what are you talking about. The two monitors I have are perfect and I highly recommend. Specially the 30". Fantastic!



    Check out the thread on Apple's support forum - it's had 21,000+ hits so far. I'm sure those guys would appreciate hearing from you because by the sounds of things your 30" Cinema Display might be the only one in the world that works flawlessly.



    I just returned my fifth 30" Cinema Display last week.
  • Reply 79 of 193
    bjnybjny Posts: 191member
    Dell announced a fancy display for CES:

    http://www.dell.com/content/topics/t...=us&l=en&s=gen



    C'mon, Apple. Give us new Cinema displays.
  • Reply 80 of 193
    idaveidave Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BJNY View Post


    Dell announced a fancy display for CES:

    http://www.dell.com/content/topics/t...=us&l=en&s=gen



    Is that thing glossy? Yeuch! Ptooey!



    What's with all the excess bezel on the sides? Pretty weird.
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