List of 'old' apps that do / don't work under Classic

leonis · November 19, 2001 7:56PM

Here they are based on my 'heavy' testing.

After Effects 5 - Works.....Remember DON'T allocate more than 438MB RAM to it! Otherwise it won't launch! :eek:

ImageReady 3 - Only with some minor brush glitch...otherwise okay

WORD 98, 2001 - Works except it takes a while to open the Open Dialogue box <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

Fontographer 4.15 - Works perfectly!

Dreamweaver 4 - Works but menus are slower than under OS 9

Director 8.5 - Just remember NOT to open / work with big files

Photoshop 5.5/6 - NIGHTMERE!!!!! Don't even think about it

SoundEdit 16 - Works fine but with the sound input disabled. Also takes a lot longer to start a new file

Media Cleaner 5 - Works. Just don't allocate more than 380MB RAM to it. But I started not using it since the first day I had Sorenson Video Developer

Flash 5 - Don't know why I can't even launch it

Debablizer 1.6 - Works without problem

Painter 3D - Works without problem. Reason I still use it because the OSX native BodyPaint doesn't support stylus pressure yet

QuarkXpress 4.1 - Works without problem

So far....that's it. Once Photoshop and Final Cut Pro go native (After Effects too, maybe) I will switch to OSX full-time and leave other apps running under Classic.

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]

ghost_user_name · November 19, 2001 10:49PM

What's your problem with Photoshop 6? I use it frequently in Classic with no trouble at all.

The only issue worth noting is that you shouldn't switch apps while Photoshop is loading because it has to be in the foreground to load the menubar.

It's hardly a nightmare for me.

[edit] since this is a list of apps that do and don't work, it's important to note that Apple's Final Cut Pro does not work in Classic.

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: starfleetX ]

leonis · November 20, 2001 12:21AM

Final Cut Pro won't run under Classic is given. So I don't think it's necessary to list it

Anyway....I do have some very annoying problems with Photoshop 6:

1)Can't allocate more than 438MB RAM to it. This is a BIG problem. Because I work on LARGE files all the time

2) Menu bar thing. I know I should not touch or do anything when PS is launching. Otherwise I will 'miss' the menu bar

3) Option-click outside the working window will cause the entire Classic environment quit

4) Brush painting is slower, a lot slower. Also is a pain to me because I paint in Photoshop a lot

5) I have to set the History level to 5 MAX. Otherwise........the app will just freeze

...as a very heavy Photoshop user these bugs/problems are intolerable. In order for me to use OSX full time I have to wait for PS 6.5 or 7.

Also Final Cut Pro......

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]

mediaman · November 20, 2001 8:24AM

I have 2 (different) problems in Photoshop 5.5 in Classic.

When dragging stuff round (layers, selections,etc) when I have got it to the right place and let go of the mouse button it sometimes 'jumps' a few pixels. Great, graphic design is all about acuracy.

2 when you have somthing on the clipboard and you make new document (so it's the same size as the clipboard item) it takes ages to open the new window (after you have clicked OK in the 'new' dialouge box.

These 2 problems are what has put me off finishing my theme.

besson3c · November 20, 2001 4:35PM

[quote]1)Can't allocate more than 438MB RAM to it. This is a BIG problem. Because I work on LARGE files all the time <hr></blockquote>

I think Mac OS X ignores those memory allocations and handles the memory using its own dynamic memory management. What happens if you change the memory allocation back to its suggested size?

[quote]3) Option-click outside the working window will cause the entire Classic environment quit

5) I have to set the History level to 5 MAX. Otherwise........the app will just freeze <hr></blockquote>

I'm unable to duplicate these problems... have you tried watering down Classic's extension set, trashing Photoshop's prefs?

leonis · November 20, 2001 5:32PM

Classic Applications still require manual memory adjustment by the user.

leonis · November 20, 2001 5:42PM

Here you go

This is after allocating 350MB RAM to After Effects 5, 30MB to WORD 2001, 30MB RAM to Dreamweaver 4. takes about 30.4% of total of 1.5GB of RAM.

Even I don't open any file or do anything the memory usuage will always stay at this level. But all those native apps don't suffer this problem.....

This really shows how sucky the memory manager of the Classic OS

Maybe I will get another 512MB modules for the 4th RAM slot (bump to 2GB!) of my Gigabit DP G4 so I will not need to care about how much memory the Classic environment sucks up

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]

besson3c · November 20, 2001 7:50PM

[quote]This is after allocating 350MB RAM to After Effects 5, 30MB to WORD 2001, 30MB RAM to Dreamweaver 4. takes about 30.4% of total of 1.5GB of RAM.

Even I don't open any file or do anything the memory usuage will always stay at this level. But all those native apps don't suffer this problem.....

This really shows how sucky the memory manager of the Classic OS<hr></blockquote>

I still don't think that the memory you allocate a Classic app affects performance while running under Classic, since X's memory management manages all processes - including classic processes.

Also, the CPU/memory consumption you see in the Process Viewer I think is pointless, as resources are divied out in context with what is going on, and depending on the nice level set. When more stuff is going on, those same apps will take less memory and less cpu.

I've never tried to see what will happen when you set a classic app to a ridicously high memory allocation (as far as if it presents any particular problems), but I'm pretty sure there is no point in managing resources in this fashion.

Classic is allocated 1 gig of RAM, and will use what it can as it sees fit.

bradbower · November 20, 2001 7:59PM

Photoshop 5.5/6 sure work great for me, like a dream (not a nightmare); I don't have any of the problems you guys do. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

fred bear · November 20, 2001 8:08PM

Photoshop 6 works fine in Classic on my iBook... I dont know why other would have problems with it. Premiere is sometimes a little weird though, it doent recongize the firewire ports like 50% of the time...

leonis · November 20, 2001 8:36PM

[edit] don't want to do that argument anymore, getting tired

[ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]

arty50 · November 20, 2001 8:51PM

Claris Emailer is still chuggin' away. Everything works perfectly; except, when you're done unpacking your new messages the alert sound gets cut off. Other than that, you'll have to pry Emailer from my cold, dead hands.

torifile · November 20, 2001 10:43PM

For us scientific types, SPSS does not run in classic, at all.

Too bad for it because I could use OS X protected memory from having to restart the computer every time I try cut/copy/paste large chunks of data. Such a piece of shit program should not be allowed to run unless it's under OS X so that i don't have to restart my computer all the damn time...

bradbower · November 21, 2001 1:02AM

[quote]Originally posted by Leonis:

Lots of people do have the same Photoshop problem as I have.

Even in Apple's own support site!

Can we just back to topic and list the programs that you can use under Classic??????????????????????????<hr></blockquote>

Settle down already; don't take it out on us because U.E. has caused your copy of Photoshop not to work.

And just because lots of people are having the same problem, whether they mistakenly talk about it on Apple's boards (about an Adobe product) or not, does not mean it isn't U.E., though the fact that to date you are the only person to complain of these specific problems does lend to the conclusion it is.

And if you don't know what U.E. stands for, guess.

[ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: bradbower ]

bradbower · November 21, 2001 1:07AM

Lemme think, what works in Classic?

Photoshop, Flash, NS 4.x (I only use it for testing), ShrinkWrap, umm, I don't have much else that I even use, I guess.

leonis · November 21, 2001 1:17AM

UE - user error

I belive many problem are caused by the end users. But in some case it's not the user. It's the bug that's with the OS. Anyway. if you dont' believe that many people do have the problem. fine. You don't have the problem doens't mean other's also don't.

I better stop now. I am tired

[ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]

bradbower · November 21, 2001 1:27AM

I never said that I didn't believe you or others weren't having the problem--I have no cause to believe that, do I? I said that due to the fact it's not widespread and you are the only person I have heard of having these problems, that I think this may be an isolated, user-contributed problem. Perhaps preferences, applications, frameworks, extensions, fonts, files, or permissions are screwed--you've got a ton of variables when you're talking about running basically two separate environments and a huge application/suite like Adobe Photoshop. It's just not very likely that it is a problem due to Classic, or even more remotely, OS X. If I were you I would try troubleshooting a little deeper and solving this, instead of repeatedly whining about it when you hear people say "whaaaat, it works for me!"

leonis · November 21, 2001 1:45AM

[quote]Originally posted by besson3c:



I still don't think that the memory you allocate a Classic app affects performance while running under Classic, since X's memory management manages all processes - including classic processes.

<hr></blockquote>

I agree with you at some point.... however the case really is somewhat different and complicated with those memory hog like AE and PS. The problem with these apps is that they only see the amount of memory allocated to them even under OS X's Classic. If I allocate 200MB to either After Effects and Photoshop they will only see 200MB. To find out the RAM they see....on AfterEffects...go to apple icon and choose "About Adobe After Effects". For Photoshop. Open a file or start a new one. Click the triangle at the bottom left hand corner and pick "Scratch Size".

BTW. If you guys have a lot of RAM and have both apps why not try to test to see if you can get over 438000KB to PS and 456800KB to AE?

I asked many people who too used these apps a lot to try and they all couldn't pass these amounts.

I will send you all my smilies if you can get over these numbers

[ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]

besson3c · November 21, 2001 11:20AM

[quote]I agree with you at some point.... however the case really is somewhat different and complicated with those memory hog like AE and PS. The problem with these apps is that they only see the amount of memory allocated to them even under OS X's Classic. If I allocate 200MB to either After Effects and Photoshop they will only see 200MB. To find out the RAM they see....on AfterEffects...go to apple icon and choose "About Adobe After Effects". For Photoshop. Open a file or start a new one. Click the triangle at the bottom left hand corner and pick "Scratch Size".<hr></blockquote>

Leonis,

you don't seem to be listening to me... I'm pretty sure (but will gladly be proven wrong) that those memory allocations are IGNORED. It doesn't matter what the program says, it's running in Classic mode under OS X's memory management.

leonis · November 21, 2001 11:38AM

Why don't you try it yourself?

Allocate 200MB RAM to Photoshop. Open a 100MB file. Under normal condition a file like this big requires about 400MB of real RAM in order to avoid the crazy data swapping between RAM and Hard drive. Photshop under Classic really only sees 200MB is available if the manual memory allocation is 200MB and it will swap all those extra data to the hard drive.

This is not just me. Other people who use Photoshop as crazy as I am also see the same thing with their systems.

Classic apps is classic app. It won't be any different even under X. The TrueBlue environement does have the dynamic memroy allocation at some point. But the Classic apps don't. Remember what Steve Jobs and Avie said back to WWDC 1998? Classic apps, not the environment, won't have the advantage of dynamic memory allocation.

This is going to be the last time I say this and I won't say anymore.

besson3c · November 21, 2001 11:57AM

[quote]Why don't you try it yourself?

Allocate 200MB RAM to Photoshop. Open a 100MB file. Under normal condition a file like this big requires about 400MB of real RAM in order to avoid the crazy data swapping between RAM and Hard drive. Photshop under Classic really only sees 200MB is available if the manual memory allocation is 200MB and it will swap all those extra data to the hard drive.<hr></blockquote>

Photoshop under Classic will think it has 1 gig of RAM to play with... are you able to generate an out-of-memory error?

[quote]Classic apps is classic app. It won't be any different even under X. The TrueBlue environement does have the dynamic memroy allocation at some point. But the Classic apps don't. Remember what Steve Jobs and Avie said back to WWDC 1998? Classic apps, not the environment, won't have the advantage of dynamic memory allocation.<hr></blockquote>

Then why can we control Classic processes through Mac OS X? If the True Blue Environment was controlling these processes, we'd have to call on it specifically to do something to a classic process (for instance a force quit), right? Moreover, it would be possible to generate an "out of memory" error....

List of 'old' apps that do / don't work under Classic

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