Mossberg: Apple's Leopard evolutionary, not revolutionary

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  • Reply 21 of 85
    jasenj1jasenj1 Posts: 903member
    I think the revolutionary things are below the level that Mossberg and general users tend to look. This InfoWorld article touches on the deep goodness under the hood of Leopard.



    I believe Apple did the right thing with 10.5 in creating great APIs and an environment for developers. Core Animation will lead to some awesome eye candy AND functionality.



    It is nice to see Bonjour promoted as a top-level core technology. I've done some development work with it, and it is slick. It doesn't solve world hunger, but what it does it does easily and well. I hope Apple can get Bonjour in everything with a network connection.



    From the little I've played with Vista, it looks like MS went the other way. They made the OS the do-all be-all for the computer, which just makes it bloated and clunky.



    - Jasen.
  • Reply 22 of 85
    OH JEEZE!!! all the time machine bashing! whatever. It works (albeit slow for initial setup) awesome!

    My backup, for my laptop, is on a network drive via my airport extreme. after the initial setup, it works great!





    PS: not sure if this works or how well with other networked drives?

    any of you try this, post your results...
  • Reply 23 of 85
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Apple has listened. The most recent Leopard build (9A559) to developers has removed that feature.



    This is why I love AppleInsider. I'll take your word on this one.
  • Reply 24 of 85
    shawnjshawnj Posts: 6,656member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    1) I don't see how multi-touch on a desktop makes any sense to Apple's customer base.



    Apple is exploring ways right now to incorporate multi-touch beyond the iPhone.



    I don't think it's necessarily limited to those types of devices either. Right now laptops just aren't designed for that type of input. The screens smudge with fingerprints and shake upon touching it. But I think with a few hardware adjustments it can make better sense to navigate with your fingers on large laptop screens rather than/ in addition to a cramped trackpad. It may not replace the trackpad but it can certainly supplement it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    2) The "spit and polish" UI is the least appealing and remarkable aspects to Leopard. If you need some examples just ask; there are plenty here who will inform you of these features.



    I was referring to the continually improving and evolving nature of the entire release rather than to specific eye-candy additions. I did say "it's all spit and polish." But that bit of unclarity aside, I'll uh "ask around" about those features.

  • Reply 25 of 85
    shadowshadow Posts: 373member
    See my post here. I have not read the full reviews and it is not fair to comment I am afraid but I think the problem of those guys is they look ctitically (and this is good) at the feature list while poking around the system and make a comparison in a checkbox style (and this is bad) - search feature in Leopard: Yes/ search feature in Vista: Yes -> no advantages. I was less enthusiastic about Leopard before playing with it. Quick Look IS revolutionary. This feature alone is worth $100. It is not an eye-candy! It is a huge productivity booster! I did not test the Time Machine but the approach to the backup/restore process IS revolutionary, although the underlying technology is step behind (no filesystem snapshots hence a requirement for an external drive). Look at it as a versioning system, not only as a backup one. I am one of those few who are making regular backups and know the pain of searching for a deleted file in the backups! Search->restore->open->see this is not the right one->delete->search again and so on. Not so with Time Machine and Quick Look - yes, Quick Look and Spotlight work in Time Machine backups and that is fantastic! Time Machine also provides means for searching on application level: open iPhoto and search from within your Library view and it looks within THAT PARTICULAR VIEW, no need to dig the file out of the thousands of files burried in a complex directory tree! And again, you can look the contents of the file BEFORE MAKING A RESTORE! When you get used to it you will not want to live without!
  • Reply 26 of 85
    To all those interested in the claim that Time Machine only works with leopard-shared network drives, there is a good discussion here:

    http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/...m/589003897831



    It seems that, at least with the latest beta, an HFS+ formatted drive shared via tiger WILL work. There are even claims that it can backup to an HFS image hosted from ANY source. Can anyone confirm this for the GM that we might let Mosse know? Also, hoping my Tiger-based backup machine (that can't run leopard) isn't obsolete....





    .wch
  • Reply 27 of 85
    sc_marktsc_markt Posts: 1,392member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post




    "I did notice a few drawbacks, but they were minor," he says. "The menu bar is now translucent, which can make it hard to see the items it contains if your desktop picture has dark areas at the top.



    I hope somebody figures out the terminal command to fix this. And what was the point of doing this in the first place?
  • Reply 28 of 85
    foo2foo2 Posts: 1,077member
    In my opinion, Mossberg is being a bit too aloof. (Leopard like? ;-) I see no reason to bring up evolutionary vs. revolutionary. That's kind of a "straw man" approach to reviewing, which makes his words seem more profound than they actually are. Did Apple make any claims of Leopard being revolutionary? I don't think so. iPhone yes, Leopard no. With respect to Leopard, Apple touts innovation. Contrary to Mossberg, I believe Time Machine is very innovative. I would challenge Mossberg to show us how to match Time Machine's capabilities with on any platform with any other products. While there may be a strong element of Apple chauvinism behind Time Machine's requirement for remote volumes to be mounted on Leopard systems, Time Machine might just as easily have communications protocol requirements for features, speed, and reliability that demand a Leopard server.
  • Reply 29 of 85
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ThinkExpensive View Post


    I completely agree, however I really did believe that there were 'secret features' that Jobs was talking about that just fizzled out and never ended up being included. I'm seriously considering whether this is worth my $70 (edu discount).



    Wait, $70 with education discount? Where are you seeing this? Everywhere on Apple's site says $116. Could you direct me there?
  • Reply 30 of 85
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,258member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    I think the next mini revolution will center around media. Computers will get faster, screens will get larger and resolutions will improve. The concept of the TV Monitor may go by the wayside in 10-15yrs. Replaced by computes masquerading as TVs yet all we have today as for as social networking and collaboration will be present. Convergence is such an overused word but that's what's going to happen.



    Hmm...so you got me wondering as I sit here contemplating (plotting) my first HD TV purchase. I'm really not enough of a TV buff to think 1080p is really necessary, 720p is perfectly fine for watching video. But then I think...if I'm going to hook up my Mac mini to it (more versatile than AppleTV) the extra resolution would be nice.



    Then to your post...why should computers masquerade as TVs? Apple has put a lot of effort into making screen sharing easy in Leopard (via both iChat and the Finder). Apple TV runs OS X. It already shares media from my computer, why not the screen, too? Surely sharing a screen is less intensive (bandwidth and process) than streaming an HD video. I'm not going to do any video editing via a shared screen, but for 99% of uses, it would work fine. Add an iChat client and a web cam (either embedded in the AppleTV case or separate) and you've just dramatically increased the value of AppleTV with minimal effort.



    So why is everyone trying to bring the computer into the living room TV? All we need is the computer screen! Steve Jobs said a long time ago that people don't want a computer in the living room. I think the main reason the relatively anemic features of AppleTV have not been updated is because of the delay in the release of Leopard. Once 10.5 is unleashed and the bugs worked out, I think AppleTV is next. And it wouldn't be unprecedented. Apple created FrontRow, which was an interesting little curiosity, and it turned into AppleTV. Now screen sharing, which will be nothing but another curiosity to 99% of Mac buyers...AppleTV 2.0 anyone?



    That would be revolutionary...not in computer technology (thin client), but in how we use it (available to the masses)!
  • Reply 31 of 85
    nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    The very darkest the menu bar can ever get is gray--in other words, how Windows menus are to begin with
  • Reply 32 of 85
    foo2foo2 Posts: 1,077member
    Mossberg neglected to mention that all versions of Leopard support 32-bit and 64-bit apps equally well. Unlike Windows.
  • Reply 33 of 85
    eduardoeduardo Posts: 181member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ThinkExpensive View Post


    I completely agree, however I really did believe that there were 'secret features' that Jobs was talking about that just fizzled out and never ended up being included...



    I'm surprised the media haven't questioned Apple about this. I wonder what the back-story is for the demise of this "top-secret" feature Jobs harped about.



    I'm curious...
  • Reply 34 of 85
    stubeckstubeck Posts: 140member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SurfRat View Post


    Wait, $70 with education discount? Where are you seeing this? Everywhere on Apple's site says $116. Could you direct me there?



    Yes, hence why he says (edu) after the price.



    I like the review. It gets past Jobs and Apples marketing teams making things seem like the best thing since sliced bread. I do think his statement of "it boots so much faster than Vista" is worthless since he doesn't mention the specs of either machine though.
  • Reply 35 of 85
    revolutionary? wouldn't that be a word for the OS XI ?
  • Reply 36 of 85
    Mossberg doesn't write for Apple fanatics, he writes for average Joes who have lives and jobs and kids. He writes for the WSJ. Discussing Core Animation and AutoFS and 64/32bit compatibility is simply out of place.



    He's basically getting flack for being pragmatic and a realist, and not chugging the kool aid. He doesn't rip into Windows enough, he doesn't go on at length about obscure features that mean nothing to the WSJ-reading public. Doesn't he realize how great Dock reflections are?



    The worst part about Macs are Mac users.
  • Reply 37 of 85
    palegolaspalegolas Posts: 1,270member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Apple claims the new system includes more than 300 new features, but Mossberg observes that there "is nothing on the list that could be considered startling or a major breakthrough."



    He tells us nothing with Leopard could be considered a major breakthrough, and at the same he tells us that the transparrent menu and the flat icons are annoying. It's such a strange approach... I think most of what's great with Leopard is probably not graphically visible at all, but is a real breakthrough for developers. The dev tools seems really like they've went through a breakthrough revamp. And much of what's going on under the hood. And what about graphics drivers, open gl, audio drivers etc? These are all very important pieces to cover. He can't just ignore a list of 300 improvements (the list is probably really 3000) and then go on and tell us about the transparent menu.. that just makes him look unserious.
  • Reply 38 of 85
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ThinkExpensive View Post


    I completely agree, however I really did believe that there were 'secret features' that Jobs was talking about that just fizzled out and never ended up being included. I'm seriously considering whether this is worth my $70 (edu discount).



    The actual Edu price has INCREASED instead of giving it to us teachers / students for $69.00 it is now $116.00.

    Only $14 off the $129.00.



    They make MORE MONEY and become MORE GREEDY.....
  • Reply 39 of 85
    If icons look good or not is a matter of personal taste.

    I don't like the old aqua icons at all and think the new ones are much better. Anyway, the look of folder icons is one thing that can be changed by the user (Panic's/Iconfactory's CandyBar) and I'm quite sure the transparency of the menu-bar will be modifiable too in some way.
  • Reply 40 of 85
    markbmarkb Posts: 153member
    Quote:

    OH JEEZE!!! all the time machine bashing! whatever. It works (albeit slow for initial setup) awesome!

    My backup, for my laptop, is on a network drive via my airport extreme. after the initial setup, it works great!



    ArsTechnia has a long thread that claims they have disabled time machine from working over Airport extreme in the GM build. That is truly disappointing as time machine is the major feature I was looking forward to. It will certainly make me rethink my need to upgrade my little Airport express.
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