I think it's safe to say I was talking about a "keyboard-free" tablet.
I know, but if I recall correctly, didn't you only add "keyboard-free" after one of the guys here hassled you about how he thought multitouch was the future, but that it'd have a keyboard, you gave your no keyboard speech, and then he told you it wasn't specified in the title, so you fixed it.
Even with more apps, you can't be as productive. And productivity is a major thing, and I believe it's a fair reason to pursue such product. Whatever it is.
There are a lot of things Apple could make that would be useful to some group of people. But these potential devices need to grow in their perspective markets. Tablet's thus far have not been a growing market by any stretch.
There are a lot of things Apple could make that would be useful to some group of people. But these potential devices need to grow in their perspective markets. Tablet's thus far have not been a growing market by any stretch.
Which is a shame, because I really want one. Sighhh
I agree about the size and productivity but I'm not sure if that is enough reason to pursue this product.
The various apps will come with the SDK.
Sorry, but it's just too tiny. Perhaps if Apple made the intelligent decision to allow a stylus, or even a fingernail, in addition to the finger method, it would be different. But the iPhone is far too limiting for many uses. It needs a bigger screen without question, to become something more than a smartphone. It also needs more powerful processors to do more than basic work for more needful applications, and a decent GPU for the screen graphics, so it doesn't bog the whole thing down when playing the games which I would hope would appear.
Quote:
Yeah the whole purpose of this is to use without a keyboard. This would be new to most consumers, which is why I called it a new form factor.
It is a new form factor (I'll concede the point). we just seem to be disagreeing on what.
Quote:
After using the iPhone for 5 months now. Multi-touch seems to favor a certain part of your finger or thumb. After using it long enough you come to understand the part of your finger that it responds best to and it becomes effortless to use.
For basic needs, such as typing, and poking icons, yes.
But try to do anything more complex, and you can't. Apple hasn't even given programs that you would need to select more carefully in, because the phone doesn't allow it.
If all you want to do is surf the web and check your gMail or yahooMail, then the iPod Touch does the trick (should be a big hit in Japan).
But as a self-confessed photographer, melgross: would you do any serious photo editing on a screen that size with iPhoto or (heaven-forfend) Photoshop Elements or (gasp!) Aperture or (gag!!) Photoshop? I could see a sub-notebook size tablet (with a sub-notebook size price) as fitting into an iLife digital-lifestyle size market, especially if it were also a media player.
Uh, who said anything about photo editing? I certainly didn't. Even so, I would never even consider it on one of these underpowered 10 or 11" models either.
But, what I have done over the years, is to draw layouts on my Palm, now Treo700p. Basic designs that come to mind anywhere I may be. I also use the program to draw parts for something I'm designing. Yes, they are crude, but they are the equiv. of the old drawing on a napkin.
I also use my scientific calculator on a regular basis, and there's just no way to pick the keys out with a finger. There are so many, and they are so small on screen. The stylus works just fine though,
With a 4 x6 inch screen and 768 x 512 rez, so much more could be done. It could be used as a sketchbook. Now, I have to carry a small one around that's about the same size.
But, I would love to be able to take my CF card from my camera, and dump it into the device so I can empty the card. Yes, I do carry at least a couple of 4GB cards, but at times, I would like to see the images in the field at a larger size than my 2.5" camera screen allows, without having to actually carry something to do it with. And to do that WITHOUT having to dump the card as well.
I can think of a myriad of uses a mid-size device would be capable of doing without getting in the way, that the iTouch or iPhone can't do, or that a 10 or 11" screen model would be overkill for.
I have covered this in the past, but I am to lazy to go looking for my old posts…
To sum it up, I think Apple could do three tablets (not counting the iPhone) in the following ranges:
8" (+/-) manufacturing/medical/etc.
13" (+/-) education/business/etc.
17" (+/-) graphics/designers/etc.
All with multi-touch (duh), all with solid-state HDDs, all with WiFi & BlueTooth
NO optical drives, no old-school spinning platter HDDs; these are contained in the (optional) docking station, which also allows adding a keyboard/mouse & extra display (display fed from docking station)
Make the docking station a modular unit, so end users can add HDDs/optical/GPU for extra display, etc. (possibly even added CPU power…?!?)
All the portability & ease of use of a tablet (an Apple tablet folks, not some WinBlowz unit), with the abilities of a desktop when needed…
Okay, flame away, losers!
;^p
I don't see Apple doing this because, after the well known fact that tablets are simply not interesting computer users at large, it would be breaking up the small market for them that could exist, if Apple did choose to come out with it.
All I can see at this point, assuming that Apple will be doing them, and we have absolutely NO proof that Apple is, would be an ultralight, and something like the Newton.
There is simly no information, even amongst the rumor makers, of anything else.
And, I don't see anything else as making any sense whatsoever!
I don't see Apple doing this because, after the well known fact that tablets are simply not interesting computer users at large, it would be breaking up the small market for them that could exist, if Apple did choose to come out with it.
I think a problem is that there isn't a "killer app" yet, and Apple is the perfect company to make it. I think Apple can make a tablet type desirable to a lot more than its current market. Apple really doesn't seem to have anything like a zero-sum disadvantage, it looks to me like they can create interest in a new kind of product where there wasn't interest before, by approaching the problem differently and marketing it properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
Poll title question:
I think it's safe to say I was talking about a "keyboard-free" tablet.
Even if it didn't say that, the images attached to the poll don't show a keyboard in the tablet, in fact, one shows a virtual keyboard.
Uh, who said anything about photo editing? I certainly didn't. Even so, I would never even consider it on one of these underpowered 10 or 11" models either.
I think he misinterpreted what you meant when you said you are a photographer and didn't need one more thing to "lug around." I think he kind of missed that.
I think a problem is that there isn't a "killer app" yet, and Apple is the perfect company to make it. I think Apple can make a tablet type desirable to a lot more than its current market. Apple really doesn't seem to have anything like a zero-sum disadvantage, it looks to me like they can create interest in a new kind of product where there wasn't interest before, by approaching the problem differently and marketing it properly.
My feeling about this is that it's the physical thing that is the tablet that is the problem, and not any app.
When this is placed on a table, flat, there is little to no advantage over a keyed device, and it's difficult to see, as it faces the ceiling. you have to lean right over it. Very clumsy. It would have to have a built-in stand like the Wacom to be of any use that way, and that will just add complexity, weight, bulk, and cost. So that's out.
Try typing on an on-screen keyboard when it's flat to the table when you can't easily see it. That won't work either. Do people want to type while leaning hunched over the computer? I don't think so. Think of how that would look during a meeting! You couldn't pay attention to what's being presented, and type at the same time. Imagine sitting at a desk, or table, normally, as you would when using a computer now. Now imagine placing this tablet on the table in front of you. What will you see? A black, or blue, screen. Why? Because, as we all know, an LCD screen can't be viewed at such an extreme angle. Useless!!!
When holding it and using it, it will still run into the problem of weight on your forearm when writing. If you choose instead to use a screen keyboard, then you must do with one hand. These are both uncomfortable, and clumsy.
I don't see how any "killer app" can get around these terminal (no pun intended) problems, as it is what it is.
Hmmm... I spent the last little bit re-wording my argument over and over, and couldn't get it right. Ireland, come back, you're better at these arguments than I.
I agreed with you. I was saying even though a larger tablet would allow for more productive apps, I'm not sure its worth Apple pursuing this market.
Quote:
But try to do anything more complex, and you can't. Apple hasn't even given programs that you would need to select more carefully in, because the phone doesn't allow it.
I think you like being contrary Mel. I wasn't saying multi-touch allows you to easily use cells in Excel. I was just passing on what I've grown to understand about using it.
Comments
Like I said it's been talked to death, and the poll was not in favor of a slate.
That's a selective memory you have.
That's a selective memory you have.
Oh, snappity snap snap!!!!!
(even though technically you didnt really specify it was keyboard free until towards the end of the poll, did you not?)
Oh, snappity snap snap!!!!!
(even though technically you didnt really specify it was keyboard free until towards the end of the poll, did you not?)
Poll title question:
Will Apple make a multi-touch (keyboard-free) Mac tablet before the end of 2008?
I think it's safe to say I was talking about a "keyboard-free" tablet.
Poll title question:
I think it's safe to say I was talking about a "keyboard-free" tablet.
I know, but if I recall correctly, didn't you only add "keyboard-free" after one of the guys here hassled you about how he thought multitouch was the future, but that it'd have a keyboard, you gave your no keyboard speech, and then he told you it wasn't specified in the title, so you fixed it.
Or maybe it was a dream.
Even with more apps, you can't be as productive. And productivity is a major thing, and I believe it's a fair reason to pursue such product. Whatever it is.
There are a lot of things Apple could make that would be useful to some group of people. But these potential devices need to grow in their perspective markets. Tablet's thus far have not been a growing market by any stretch.
There are a lot of things Apple could make that would be useful to some group of people. But these potential devices need to grow in their perspective markets. Tablet's thus far have not been a growing market by any stretch.
Which is a shame, because I really want one. Sighhh
Someone cheer me up
I agree about the size and productivity but I'm not sure if that is enough reason to pursue this product.
The various apps will come with the SDK.
Sorry, but it's just too tiny. Perhaps if Apple made the intelligent decision to allow a stylus, or even a fingernail, in addition to the finger method, it would be different. But the iPhone is far too limiting for many uses. It needs a bigger screen without question, to become something more than a smartphone. It also needs more powerful processors to do more than basic work for more needful applications, and a decent GPU for the screen graphics, so it doesn't bog the whole thing down when playing the games which I would hope would appear.
Yeah the whole purpose of this is to use without a keyboard. This would be new to most consumers, which is why I called it a new form factor.
It is a new form factor (I'll concede the point). we just seem to be disagreeing on what.
After using the iPhone for 5 months now. Multi-touch seems to favor a certain part of your finger or thumb. After using it long enough you come to understand the part of your finger that it responds best to and it becomes effortless to use.
For basic needs, such as typing, and poking icons, yes.
But try to do anything more complex, and you can't. Apple hasn't even given programs that you would need to select more carefully in, because the phone doesn't allow it.
If all you want to do is surf the web and check your gMail or yahooMail, then the iPod Touch does the trick (should be a big hit in Japan).
But as a self-confessed photographer, melgross: would you do any serious photo editing on a screen that size with iPhoto or (heaven-forfend) Photoshop Elements or (gasp!) Aperture or (gag!!) Photoshop? I could see a sub-notebook size tablet (with a sub-notebook size price) as fitting into an iLife digital-lifestyle size market, especially if it were also a media player.
Uh, who said anything about photo editing? I certainly didn't. Even so, I would never even consider it on one of these underpowered 10 or 11" models either.
But, what I have done over the years, is to draw layouts on my Palm, now Treo700p. Basic designs that come to mind anywhere I may be. I also use the program to draw parts for something I'm designing. Yes, they are crude, but they are the equiv. of the old drawing on a napkin.
I also use my scientific calculator on a regular basis, and there's just no way to pick the keys out with a finger. There are so many, and they are so small on screen. The stylus works just fine though,
With a 4 x6 inch screen and 768 x 512 rez, so much more could be done. It could be used as a sketchbook. Now, I have to carry a small one around that's about the same size.
But, I would love to be able to take my CF card from my camera, and dump it into the device so I can empty the card. Yes, I do carry at least a couple of 4GB cards, but at times, I would like to see the images in the field at a larger size than my 2.5" camera screen allows, without having to actually carry something to do it with. And to do that WITHOUT having to dump the card as well.
I can think of a myriad of uses a mid-size device would be capable of doing without getting in the way, that the iTouch or iPhone can't do, or that a 10 or 11" screen model would be overkill for.
I have covered this in the past, but I am to lazy to go looking for my old posts…
To sum it up, I think Apple could do three tablets (not counting the iPhone) in the following ranges:
8" (+/-) manufacturing/medical/etc.
13" (+/-) education/business/etc.
17" (+/-) graphics/designers/etc.
All with multi-touch (duh), all with solid-state HDDs, all with WiFi & BlueTooth
NO optical drives, no old-school spinning platter HDDs; these are contained in the (optional) docking station, which also allows adding a keyboard/mouse & extra display (display fed from docking station)
Make the docking station a modular unit, so end users can add HDDs/optical/GPU for extra display, etc. (possibly even added CPU power…?!?)
All the portability & ease of use of a tablet (an Apple tablet folks, not some WinBlowz unit), with the abilities of a desktop when needed…
Okay, flame away, losers!
;^p
I don't see Apple doing this because, after the well known fact that tablets are simply not interesting computer users at large, it would be breaking up the small market for them that could exist, if Apple did choose to come out with it.
All I can see at this point, assuming that Apple will be doing them, and we have absolutely NO proof that Apple is, would be an ultralight, and something like the Newton.
There is simly no information, even amongst the rumor makers, of anything else.
And, I don't see anything else as making any sense whatsoever!
So, fellow loser, I hope that satisfies you.
I like Mac Ronin's idea myself..but then I am a crazy n00b!
Yup!!!
I don't see Apple doing this because, after the well known fact that tablets are simply not interesting computer users at large, it would be breaking up the small market for them that could exist, if Apple did choose to come out with it.
I think a problem is that there isn't a "killer app" yet, and Apple is the perfect company to make it. I think Apple can make a tablet type desirable to a lot more than its current market. Apple really doesn't seem to have anything like a zero-sum disadvantage, it looks to me like they can create interest in a new kind of product where there wasn't interest before, by approaching the problem differently and marketing it properly.
Poll title question:
I think it's safe to say I was talking about a "keyboard-free" tablet.
Even if it didn't say that, the images attached to the poll don't show a keyboard in the tablet, in fact, one shows a virtual keyboard.
Uh, who said anything about photo editing? I certainly didn't. Even so, I would never even consider it on one of these underpowered 10 or 11" models either.
I think he misinterpreted what you meant when you said you are a photographer and didn't need one more thing to "lug around." I think he kind of missed that.
Even if it didn't say that, the images attached to the poll don't show a keyboard in the tablet, in fact, one shows a virtual keyboard.
True.
What are you in favor of?
Yup!!!
Note that I didn't say Apple would do it...just that I liked it.
Even if it didn't say that, the images attached to the poll don't show a keyboard in the tablet, in fact, one shows a virtual keyboard.
True. I definitely want one.
But do we represent the minority?
I think a problem is that there isn't a "killer app" yet, and Apple is the perfect company to make it. I think Apple can make a tablet type desirable to a lot more than its current market. Apple really doesn't seem to have anything like a zero-sum disadvantage, it looks to me like they can create interest in a new kind of product where there wasn't interest before, by approaching the problem differently and marketing it properly.
My feeling about this is that it's the physical thing that is the tablet that is the problem, and not any app.
When this is placed on a table, flat, there is little to no advantage over a keyed device, and it's difficult to see, as it faces the ceiling. you have to lean right over it. Very clumsy. It would have to have a built-in stand like the Wacom to be of any use that way, and that will just add complexity, weight, bulk, and cost. So that's out.
Try typing on an on-screen keyboard when it's flat to the table when you can't easily see it. That won't work either. Do people want to type while leaning hunched over the computer? I don't think so. Think of how that would look during a meeting! You couldn't pay attention to what's being presented, and type at the same time. Imagine sitting at a desk, or table, normally, as you would when using a computer now. Now imagine placing this tablet on the table in front of you. What will you see? A black, or blue, screen. Why? Because, as we all know, an LCD screen can't be viewed at such an extreme angle. Useless!!!
When holding it and using it, it will still run into the problem of weight on your forearm when writing. If you choose instead to use a screen keyboard, then you must do with one hand. These are both uncomfortable, and clumsy.
I don't see how any "killer app" can get around these terminal (no pun intended) problems, as it is what it is.
Sorry, but it's just too tiny.
I agreed with you. I was saying even though a larger tablet would allow for more productive apps, I'm not sure its worth Apple pursuing this market.
But try to do anything more complex, and you can't. Apple hasn't even given programs that you would need to select more carefully in, because the phone doesn't allow it.
I think you like being contrary Mel. I wasn't saying multi-touch allows you to easily use cells in Excel. I was just passing on what I've grown to understand about using it.