Apple chastised for ignoring two Mac data loss issues
Apple is taking some flak this week for failing to acknowledge and address two separate data loss issues -- one present in Leopard's Finder and another having to do with faulty Seagate hard drives used in the company's MacBook line of notebook computers.
Leopard data loss issue
Tom Karpik explains that Leopard?s Finder has a glaring bug in its directory-moving code, which could lead to horrendous data loss if a destination volume disappears while a move operation is in action.
Unlike a directory copy action across drives, which duplicates a directory from one volume to the other and leaves the original intact, a directory move action across drives is intended to duplicate the original directory from the source drive to the destination drive, then delete the original from the source drive when the move to the destination drive is complete.
It appears that Leopard's Finder (as well as Finder versions dating back to Mac OS X 10.3 Panther) fails to check the integrity of the directory copied to the destination drive before deleting the source directory from the source drive. Therefor, if a directory move is interrupted partially through the move process, the Finder assumes the move was successful and deletes the original directory from the source drive, leaving a directory with only partial file contents on the destination drive.
The bug occurs regardless of the type of destination drive -- be it a local USB drive, local Firewire drive, or SMB volume. On his website, Karpik has posted step-by-step instructions on how to reproduce glitch as well as a video demonstrating its affect.
Leopard data loss issue
Meanwhile, U.K.-based data-recovery firm Retrodata is warning Apple customers that they risk potential data loss due to a design flaw on certain 2.5-inch Seagate SATA drives, commonly found in notebooks such as the MacBook or MacBook Pro.
"The read/write heads are detaching from the arm and plowing deep gouges into the magnetic platter," says Retrodata Managing Director Duncan Clarke. "The damage is mostly on the inner tracks, but some scratches are on the outer track -- Track 0 -- and once that happens, the drive is normally beyond repair."
The problem is reportedly prevalent with Seagate 2.5-inch SATA drives that are manufactured in China and loaded with firmware Version 7.01. Model numbers affected include ST96812AS and ST98823AS.
Clark advises users to go to their System Profile, and under Serial ATA look for the "revision number."
"If it is firmware Version 7.01, then you have to panic," he said. "Apple is being utterly irresponsible and should launch a product recall."
Leopard data loss issue
Tom Karpik explains that Leopard?s Finder has a glaring bug in its directory-moving code, which could lead to horrendous data loss if a destination volume disappears while a move operation is in action.
Unlike a directory copy action across drives, which duplicates a directory from one volume to the other and leaves the original intact, a directory move action across drives is intended to duplicate the original directory from the source drive to the destination drive, then delete the original from the source drive when the move to the destination drive is complete.
It appears that Leopard's Finder (as well as Finder versions dating back to Mac OS X 10.3 Panther) fails to check the integrity of the directory copied to the destination drive before deleting the source directory from the source drive. Therefor, if a directory move is interrupted partially through the move process, the Finder assumes the move was successful and deletes the original directory from the source drive, leaving a directory with only partial file contents on the destination drive.
The bug occurs regardless of the type of destination drive -- be it a local USB drive, local Firewire drive, or SMB volume. On his website, Karpik has posted step-by-step instructions on how to reproduce glitch as well as a video demonstrating its affect.
Leopard data loss issue
Meanwhile, U.K.-based data-recovery firm Retrodata is warning Apple customers that they risk potential data loss due to a design flaw on certain 2.5-inch Seagate SATA drives, commonly found in notebooks such as the MacBook or MacBook Pro.
"The read/write heads are detaching from the arm and plowing deep gouges into the magnetic platter," says Retrodata Managing Director Duncan Clarke. "The damage is mostly on the inner tracks, but some scratches are on the outer track -- Track 0 -- and once that happens, the drive is normally beyond repair."
The problem is reportedly prevalent with Seagate 2.5-inch SATA drives that are manufactured in China and loaded with firmware Version 7.01. Model numbers affected include ST96812AS and ST98823AS.
Clark advises users to go to their System Profile, and under Serial ATA look for the "revision number."
"If it is firmware Version 7.01, then you have to panic," he said. "Apple is being utterly irresponsible and should launch a product recall."
Comments
"Apple is being utterly irresponsible and should launch a product recall."[c][url=http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=3388]
Sure.. Recall an enormous amount of compuers in an inufficent public relations fiaso, or reliase a software update. Hmm, Hmm if i were steve, what would i do
Fer chrissake, there is one demo'd bug in the finder, it's been less than 24 hours in getting this news out, and Apple needs to fix a bug in something as complex as the Finder.
As for the drive, it's not confirmed, if it is it's Seagate's problem, and as soon as they confirm it and get a fix in place, I'm sure Apple will be on board with it.
I have a lot of log files with a specific extension in a folder mixed with a lot of other files. For examples sake, lets say .storage is the extension.
The folder that all of those files are in is also called Storage.
Well, I did a Finder search in the folder "Storage" for all the files in that folder with the .storage extension that I wanted to delete, and the top level folder "Storage" was mixed in with the search results. When I selected Command + A to selected them and delete them, the folder "Storage" was also deleted. The is dangerous because that also deleted all the other files in that folder.
Fortunately I caught that the folder was missing before I emptied the Trash! I think this needs to be fixed?
And Apple should definitely issue a Leopard patch.
Here's hoping both companies do what is needed!
Meanwhile, I'd like to see some AP articles about how PC laptops are better because "Apple hard drives" are unreliable
I had to reinstall the OS, and chose to use the 'upgrade' method instead - which worked flawlessly.
On the first boot up, I noticed that it had toasted nearly all of the information in my home directory. My desktop was gone (which contained a number of files, Documents -- gone (containing archived work history for billing, and my Microsoft User Data), and a ton of other stuff.
Luckily, I had moved from Entourage over to Mail a few months ago, so my mail was still intact in the library.
At any rate -- ouch. It was a nasty couple of days recreating what was lost. Made me realize I had gotten sloppy in my weekly backups to the server. :-/
I never move files from one place to another. As a matter of fact I think it should be removed from the operating system. I spend the extra 3 seconds and copy the files and manually delete the original files when the copying is done.
Fer chrissake, there is one demo'd bug in the finder, it's been less than 24 hours in getting this news out.
I never move files from one place to another. As a matter of fact I think it should be removed from the operating system. I spend the extra 3 seconds and copy the files and manually delete the original files when the copying is done.
I'm with you. I copy and delete, and only delete after I'm really sure.
How many have had my experience of downloading a large file, and suddenly realizing there is not enough space, so then quickly starting a "move" of files to another volume to immediately free up space?
The Seagate bug isn't directly Apple's fault. If it can be fixed by Firmware, Apple should make that available in Software Update for those affected. Otherwise it's really a matter of identifying the true likelihood of failure and doing preventative repairs if needed. There have been many "bad drives" over the years (Maxtor had a big problem years back) and I never remember anyone doing an actual recall. This would be extremely costly for Seagate as they'd have to pay for tens or hundreds of thousands of repairs by authorized repair centers - not just for Macs, but every OEM that's put their drives into laptops. Apple won't do anything unless Seagate is footing the bill.
Same thing happened to me... sort of. When I was installing I chose the "archive and install" option. It was about 90+% done and was in the process of moving my user folder and settings over, when the install failed.
I had to reinstall the OS, and chose to use the 'upgrade' method instead - which worked flawlessly.
On the first boot up, I noticed that it had toasted nearly all of the information in my home directory. My desktop was gone (which contained a number of files, Documents -- gone (containing archived work history for billing, and my Microsoft User Data), and a ton of other stuff.
Luckily, I had moved from Entourage over to Mail a few months ago, so my mail was still intact in the library.
At any rate -- ouch. It was a nasty couple of days recreating what was lost. Made me realize I had gotten sloppy in my weekly backups to the server. :-/
Backups are important, and Backups on Macs are easy as heck.
Sure.. Recall an enormous amount of compuers in an inufficent public relations fiaso, or reliase a software update. Hmm, Hmm if i were steve, what would i do
Well now, I don't see anything in the article which claims that any firmware update Apple might be in a position to release would be able to fix the hard drive issue.
As I read it, all we have here is one person's observation that every drive he's encountered that has the alleged design flaw, also happens to be running firmware version 7.01. That's a far cry from establishing a cause-effect relationship.
Frankly, if this is true, and it is physically possible for any instructions provided by the HD's firmware to end up causing the read/write heads to detach from the drive armature (something I don't think should be possible unless they're in the "parked" position), then I think that does constitute a hardware design defect.
Alarmist? Maybe. Let's wait and see if any other sources can verify these observations.
I don't know if this is a new problem, but it was potentially dangerous in my case.
I have a lot of log files with a specific extension in a folder mixed with a lot of other files. For examples sake, lets say .storage is the extension.
The folder that all of those files are in is also called Storage.
Well, I did a Finder search in the folder "Storage" for all the files in that folder with the .storage extension that I wanted to delete, and the top level folder "Storage" was mixed in with the search results. When I selected Command + A to selected them and delete them, the folder "Storage" was also deleted. The is dangerous because that also deleted all the other files in that folder.
Fortunately I caught that the folder was missing before I emptied the Trash! I think this needs to be fixed?
The system did exactly what you asked it to do, of course. What is it you think the system /should/ have done? Prevented you from deleting a folder?
I believe Windows XP has similar behavior. It can be called a bug, but it can also be called a feature. The default behavior for dragging to another volume is copy, so one has to actively choose move.
How many have had my experience of downloading a large file, and suddenly realizing there is not enough space, so then quickly starting a "move" of files to another volume to immediately free up space?
Windows XP confirms that the file has been saved to the target drive before it deletes it from the source drive, at least for SMB shares. Mind you, this happens on a file-by-file basis, so if you're dragging a whole folder from one location to another, you may end up with some of the files moved over to the target drive, but other files still present on the source drive. However no files fill fly off into the ether. (Never tried with disconnecting USB sticks and the like, though.)
Why should we accept any different behaviour?
Seagate used to be very reliable - I have Seagate drives from the late 80s that still work on the occasions I use my compact macs - but none of the drive manufacturers are immune to problems. But it's certainly Seagate that should be fixing/recalling the drives, not Apple proper... especially since Seagate (which now includes Maxtor) accounts for at least a third of the consumer hard drive market....
The system did exactly what you asked it to do, of course. What is it you think the system /should/ have done? Prevented you from deleting a folder?