[quote] one of the things that irritates me in os x is when you click on the findr icon in the dock, theres no way of hiding all apps and showing the desktop. its really irritating having a finder window pop up. also if you try to empty the tras then switch to another app and theres a problem with the trash the finder icon bounces but when you click on it instead of just showing the trash error dialog it opens a new finder window on top. try it!! <hr></blockquote>
Agreed. There needs to be a way to click on the finder icon with some modifier and move to the finder, hide other apps, and NOT open any finder windows. I don't see the need to have it automatically open a new finder window, when if someone wants one, it's only one more click away.
OSX is way too complicated for an Apple OS, in my opinion. I am still baffled as to why I have to give myself permission for Mail.App to check my e-mail and open my mailboxes.
Permissions? What? Isn't this supposed to be a MacOS?
I don't want to think to have to use the MacOS, that's not how it is supposed to be.
Agreed. There needs to be a way to click on the finder icon with some modifier and move to the finder, hide other apps, and NOT open any finder windows. I don't see the need to have it automatically open a new finder window, when if someone wants one, it's only one more click away.</strong><hr></blockquote>
there is a keycombo. not sure what it is right now, not in OS X but it's something like command-option-click. finder window still opens though
<strong>OSX is way too complicated for an Apple OS, in my opinion. I am still baffled as to why I have to give myself permission for Mail.App to check my e-mail and open my mailboxes.
Permissions? What? Isn't this supposed to be a MacOS?
I don't want to think to have to use the MacOS, that's not how it is supposed to be.</strong><hr></blockquote>
it's using keychain to remember your password.. this happened in email clients using the keychain in OS 9 also.
Each subsequent version of Windows seems to give the use less and less control over the operation of the OS. The theme at MS seems to be to do everything for you. This of course puts you in a position of dependency on MS. If other OSes actually expect you to know how to configure things (as you should), those who are used to the MS do-it-for-me will be clueless and just stick with Windoze. Sigh.
[quote]Originally posted by the cool gut:
<strong>Of course, X could have taken the XP route and simply offer no control of the OS to the user what so ever, all in the name of "simplicity"
XP won't even let you pick your own flippin' drivers for Gods sake.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Uhh.. you can tell the keychain to always allow access to that password. It really isn't that complicated. If you want to avoid having things as secure as they are you can go back to the ways of system bombs and type1 errors. We won't miss you in OS X land.
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>OSX is way too complicated for an Apple OS, in my opinion. I am still baffled as to why I have to give myself permission for Mail.App to check my e-mail and open my mailboxes.
Permissions? What? Isn't this supposed to be a MacOS?
I don't want to think to have to use the MacOS, that's not how it is supposed to be.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple could have a switch in the Sharing control panel to completely turn off permissions except for Network users (I think if the Sharing, Users and Login control panels were merged it'll help make things easier by showing that they use the same user lists.
And make that Keychain a control panel, jeeze... make it a little bit more obvious
I can't help but notice that when it was only the classic OS, us MACheads seemed to yell about how it was so fluid, and easy, and stable, and, USER FRIENDLY. But now that it is absolutely dense to the computer illiterate I seem to hear the opposite arguement coming from the mouths of the faithfull.
I hear the arguement that wooley-Windows users used to use.
I agree with Michael. It is very complicated and is NOT laid out in an intuitive manner. . . .even finding things is complicated if your tired and a beginner.
I won't make OS X my main drive's system till I have to, mainly because my wife will have a very hard time getting to learn it . . .she is very impatient with computers...the kind of person MACS used to be so proud of being able to please.
I'm on the point of switching back to OS 9. I love the look of X but I hate the fact that it's really one of those Nazi OSes dressed up in a pretty uniform. I totally agree with the earlier post: my computers should work for me not the other way round, and they always used to. I have five computers in a network and I want them all to be able to share all their resources and let any user see anything on any machine. In 9 it was easy, in X it's impossible.
Don't get me wrong -- extra security is great news and in a corporate environment is essential. The defaults should all be set to maximum security out of the box. But you should be able to switch it off if you don't need it, but you can't.
Here's a challenge to you experts: How do I share those five drives (actually, six including the firewire external) under X without let or hindrance? Bear in mind that I only do three letter extensions under protest and emphatically don't go near a command line interface (ie I'm a Mac user).
<strong>Here's a challenge to you experts: How do I share those five drives (actually, six including the firewire external) under X without let or hindrance? Bear in mind that I only do three letter extensions under protest and emphatically don't go near a command line interface (ie I'm a Mac user).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Here's three ways, one of them easy, one of them difficult, and one of them arguably expensive:
1. Download SharePoints, an add-in preference panel that makes it point-click easy to add new shares. Just pick a name, a drive (or for all drives, use "/"), and add the share--instantly you're sharing all over again.
3. Realize that if you need to share that much stuff and your network depends on it, you should probably be using Mac OS X Server and go buy a copy (or you could look around for it on your personal filesharing client of choice, to try it out, though that would be illegal software piracy, and Apple is a great company deserving of your money).
Hope this kinda helps.
P.S. I too think it was kinda screwed up that Apple did this to us, revoking something that was part of the regular consumer OS back in OS 9, but I'm okay and so are a lot of other people. I got it to work, one way or another. Maybe if enough people complain, however, they'll bring it back--I sure hope so.
Actually no it doesn't. OS X is the future of Apple. If you do not like to work with it, then you can go back to 8.6.
It isn't hard to learn if you keep an open mind.
[quote]Originally posted by Michaelm8000:
<strong>
ME! ME work WITH OS X!! Hell No! OS X Needs to Work for ME!
I know how to use OS X! I am worried about lower end users. they do not whant to spend time learning, geting uesed to, and Working with OS X. they just need every thing to be oviose.</strong><hr></blockquote>
[quote]Here's a challenge to you experts: How do I share those five drives (actually, six including the firewire external) under X without let or hindrance? Bear in mind that I only do three letter extensions under protest and emphatically don't go near a command line interface (ie I'm a Mac user). <hr></blockquote>
Lets make it more interesting. Define a Group so you can easily add more users for those shared drives. Netinfo and Terminal anyone?
<strong>Actually no it doesn't. OS X is the future of Apple. If you do not like to work with it, then you can go back to 8.6.
It isn't hard to learn if you keep an open mind.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just beacuse OS X is the future of Apple dose not mean it is the best it can be. Althogh I think OS X is just the coolest and best OS out there it has not yet filled it's potental. What you are saying is: Well, Apple mad OS X a little harder to use, humm, guess I will have to live with it. That is total BS! Apple needs to fill OS X's potental with these lesft out features wail making it a lot easyer to use.
Think of your self as a boss incharge of your computer, an isistant that you hired to work just for you. It help you get information, comulicate and creat things that you never could beafor. Like any other employe, it is expected to do what the boss tells it to do, affter all you are paying it. The employe dose not tell the boss what to do.
So why should I (the Boss),who payed $2599, work with my computer. Why should I have to go all over the internet and download shareware apps, and read articals on how to use my computer. The isistant (my computer), withc cost $2599, should be working with me to help me get all of the things I need to get done.
Macuser --Its so easy, you don't have to fiddle with a buncha stuff, it's "user friendly" --and boy-o-boy, it's the best at those there graphic programs!!!!
PC user --But this is real computing power, the ability to get in to the real nitty gritty and make a difference . . . not cookie-cutter computing
5 Years later:
Macuser -- this is real computing power,the ability to get in to the real nitty gritty and THINK different (different than the tried and true ease-of-use)
PC user--yeah but we got 2Ghz and pretty shapes and all the peripherals work, and they are cheaper, faster (sure they're out of control but so what) and everybody else is using them too!.
The problem is is that Apple pays too much attention to these Apple-fanatic sites where everybody who posts knows how to set up a TCP_IP network, and knows what a port sniffer is (not me though) . . . they are targetting their OS for these people and they will lose what support they had that was due to the "user friendliness" --at least this is what I fear.
I hope that they will work to simplify in the next OS X upgrades . . . To merge the old ETHOS with the supposed computing benifits of "fiddling about"
<strong>The problem is is that Apple pays too much attention to these Apple-fanatic sites where everybody who posts knows how to set up a TCP_IP network, and knows what a port sniffer is (not me though) . . . they are targetting their OS for these people and they will lose what support they had that was due to the "user friendliness" --at least this is what I fear.
I hope that they will work to simplify in the next OS X upgrades . . . To merge the old ETHOS with the supposed computing benifits of "fiddling about"
Yes Apple is doing that. And that is great!!! there are a lot of people out there that know how to do all this stuff. And they need a great Apple OS to. But they can not let that take down the easy of use by any means at all! If Apple can pull of a SUPER power full, and SUPER easy to use OS they will really outdo them selves (and the rest of the industery). And when I say easy to use I am talking all features, the powerfullones and the basic ones. Right now OS X feels like a really powerfull OS that is pretty easy to use. But still it is the best thing out there. But that is not good enogh for me.
Oh quit being whiners. How many users need to worry about permissions? How many users care? I can only see one reason they would, and that would be filesharing. Which is solved very well by how users on the same computer can access (read and write) just about everything other than that in other users' Home folders, and how Public folders are shared when you turn filesharing on. Seems like it works pretty good for most dummies. (And if you're not dummy, surely you can install a piece of software called SharePoints as I pointed out above, or dig into NIM, or if you otherewise want o screw with permissions, get a UNIX manual and discover Terminal.app.) Besides, there is never going to be an easy way for a user to go around tweaking permissions on files scattered around the whole unix system--it wasn't exactly easy nor elegant in OS 9, and it hasn't improved much with OS X, but a solution has at least been put in place so users don't HAVE to mess with all of that.
Damn, it isn't even that hard. If you need-to-know, you should be in-the-know, Michael.
Comments
Agreed. There needs to be a way to click on the finder icon with some modifier and move to the finder, hide other apps, and NOT open any finder windows. I don't see the need to have it automatically open a new finder window, when if someone wants one, it's only one more click away.
Permissions? What? Isn't this supposed to be a MacOS?
I don't want to think to have to use the MacOS, that's not how it is supposed to be.
<strong>
Agreed. There needs to be a way to click on the finder icon with some modifier and move to the finder, hide other apps, and NOT open any finder windows. I don't see the need to have it automatically open a new finder window, when if someone wants one, it's only one more click away.</strong><hr></blockquote>
there is a keycombo. not sure what it is right now, not in OS X but it's something like command-option-click. finder window still opens though
<strong>OSX is way too complicated for an Apple OS, in my opinion. I am still baffled as to why I have to give myself permission for Mail.App to check my e-mail and open my mailboxes.
Permissions? What? Isn't this supposed to be a MacOS?
I don't want to think to have to use the MacOS, that's not how it is supposed to be.</strong><hr></blockquote>
it's using keychain to remember your password.. this happened in email clients using the keychain in OS 9 also.
Don't get me wrong, I love the MacOS, but I am well able to understand and use more advanced OSes.
I think it's good for us to be put into a position to learn to use something a little more advanced.
[quote]Originally posted by the cool gut:
<strong>Of course, X could have taken the XP route and simply offer no control of the OS to the user what so ever, all in the name of "simplicity"
XP won't even let you pick your own flippin' drivers for Gods sake.</strong><hr></blockquote>
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>OSX is way too complicated for an Apple OS, in my opinion. I am still baffled as to why I have to give myself permission for Mail.App to check my e-mail and open my mailboxes.
Permissions? What? Isn't this supposed to be a MacOS?
I don't want to think to have to use the MacOS, that's not how it is supposed to be.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And make that Keychain a control panel, jeeze... make it a little bit more obvious
I hear the arguement that wooley-Windows users used to use.
I agree with Michael. It is very complicated and is NOT laid out in an intuitive manner. . . .even finding things is complicated if your tired and a beginner.
I won't make OS X my main drive's system till I have to, mainly because my wife will have a very hard time getting to learn it . . .she is very impatient with computers...the kind of person MACS used to be so proud of being able to please.
Don't get me wrong -- extra security is great news and in a corporate environment is essential. The defaults should all be set to maximum security out of the box. But you should be able to switch it off if you don't need it, but you can't.
Here's a challenge to you experts: How do I share those five drives (actually, six including the firewire external) under X without let or hindrance? Bear in mind that I only do three letter extensions under protest and emphatically don't go near a command line interface (ie I'm a Mac user).
<strong>Here's a challenge to you experts: How do I share those five drives (actually, six including the firewire external) under X without let or hindrance? Bear in mind that I only do three letter extensions under protest and emphatically don't go near a command line interface (ie I'm a Mac user).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Here's three ways, one of them easy, one of them difficult, and one of them arguably expensive:
1. Download SharePoints, an add-in preference panel that makes it point-click easy to add new shares. Just pick a name, a drive (or for all drives, use "/"), and add the share--instantly you're sharing all over again.
2. Open NetInfo Manager and put in an admin password, and then.. eh, well, if you're really interested in digging in there, there's a well-written 3 or 4 step explanation of what you do to change what is shared right here: <a href="http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20011108161839416"; target="_blank">http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20011108161839416</a>;
3. Realize that if you need to share that much stuff and your network depends on it, you should probably be using Mac OS X Server and go buy a copy (or you could look around for it on your personal filesharing client of choice, to try it out, though that would be illegal software piracy, and Apple is a great company deserving of your money).
Hope this kinda helps.
P.S. I too think it was kinda screwed up that Apple did this to us, revoking something that was part of the regular consumer OS back in OS 9, but I'm okay and so are a lot of other people. I got it to work, one way or another. Maybe if enough people complain, however, they'll bring it back--I sure hope so.
It isn't hard to learn if you keep an open mind.
[quote]Originally posted by Michaelm8000:
<strong>
ME! ME work WITH OS X!! Hell No! OS X Needs to Work for ME!
I know how to use OS X! I am worried about lower end users. they do not whant to spend time learning, geting uesed to, and Working with OS X. they just need every thing to be oviose.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>Actually no it doesn't. OS X is the future of Apple. If you do not like to work with it, then you can go back to 8.6.
It isn't hard to learn if you keep an open mind.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I never thought mac users would lower themselves the pitiful standards you just demonstrated.
that is sad
Lets make it more interesting. Define a Group so you can easily add more users for those shared drives. Netinfo and Terminal anyone?
Why do I have to re-enter my password to install some apps? I'm already friggin' logged in!
What's all this talk about not having control over Windows?
<strong>Actually no it doesn't. OS X is the future of Apple. If you do not like to work with it, then you can go back to 8.6.
It isn't hard to learn if you keep an open mind.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just beacuse OS X is the future of Apple dose not mean it is the best it can be. Althogh I think OS X is just the coolest and best OS out there it has not yet filled it's potental. What you are saying is: Well, Apple mad OS X a little harder to use, humm, guess I will have to live with it. That is total BS! Apple needs to fill OS X's potental with these lesft out features wail making it a lot easyer to use.
Think of your self as a boss incharge of your computer, an isistant that you hired to work just for you. It help you get information, comulicate and creat things that you never could beafor. Like any other employe, it is expected to do what the boss tells it to do, affter all you are paying it. The employe dose not tell the boss what to do.
So why should I (the Boss),who payed $2599, work with my computer. Why should I have to go all over the internet and download shareware apps, and read articals on how to use my computer. The isistant (my computer), withc cost $2599, should be working with me to help me get all of the things I need to get done.
it is really simple.
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/mikesicons/Menu3.html"; target="_blank">
[ 12-12-2001: Message edited by: Michaelm8000 ]</p>
And I will rephrase:
5 Years ago:
Macuser --Its so easy, you don't have to fiddle with a buncha stuff, it's "user friendly" --and boy-o-boy, it's the best at those there graphic programs!!!!
PC user --But this is real computing power, the ability to get in to the real nitty gritty and make a difference . . . not cookie-cutter computing
5 Years later:
Macuser -- this is real computing power,the ability to get in to the real nitty gritty and THINK different (different than the tried and true ease-of-use)
PC user --yeah but we got 2Ghz and pretty shapes and all the peripherals work, and they are cheaper, faster (sure they're out of control but so what) and everybody else is using them too!.
The problem is is that Apple pays too much attention to these Apple-fanatic sites where everybody who posts knows how to set up a TCP_IP network, and knows what a port sniffer is (not me though) . . . they are targetting their OS for these people and they will lose what support they had that was due to the "user friendliness" --at least this is what I fear.
I hope that they will work to simplify in the next OS X upgrades . . . To merge the old ETHOS with the supposed computing benifits of "fiddling about"
[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: pfflam ]</p>
<strong>The problem is is that Apple pays too much attention to these Apple-fanatic sites where everybody who posts knows how to set up a TCP_IP network, and knows what a port sniffer is (not me though) . . . they are targetting their OS for these people and they will lose what support they had that was due to the "user friendliness" --at least this is what I fear.
I hope that they will work to simplify in the next OS X upgrades . . . To merge the old ETHOS with the supposed computing benifits of "fiddling about"
[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: pfflam ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes Apple is doing that. And that is great!!! there are a lot of people out there that know how to do all this stuff. And they need a great Apple OS to. But they can not let that take down the easy of use by any means at all! If Apple can pull of a SUPER power full, and SUPER easy to use OS they will really outdo them selves (and the rest of the industery). And when I say easy to use I am talking all features, the powerfullones and the basic ones. Right now OS X feels like a really powerfull OS that is pretty easy to use. But still it is the best thing out there. But that is not good enogh for me.
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/mikesicons/Menu3.html"; target="_blank">
[ 12-12-2001: Message edited by: Michaelm8000 ]</p>
Damn, it isn't even that hard. If you need-to-know, you should be in-the-know, Michael.
*mutters something about go-tards*
In Windows:
Right-click on file select "Sharing" or "Security". BAM
Not complicated.
I'm sure it will improve in a while, but as it stands now far too much of it is complicated.
(And what's this madness about not being able to pick drivers in XP? It has driver rollback for God's sake.)
[ 12-12-2001: Message edited by: groverat ]</p>