I was all set to get my 24" iMac in January but I am not going to get one until Apple rectifies this problem. I'm really hoping all of this will lead to new video cards in the iMacs - hopefully an NVIDIA model. I was disappointed when I heard the new iMacs were going to have ATI cards in them and this news doesn't surprise me at all.
My friend just bought a mac to use as her college computer at my suggestion. It's the first mac she's ever used, and of course it's one of the affected iMacs. I've had it completely freeze on me personally at least three times during my few short visits to her college. Needless to say, it's ruined her opinion of macs and I feel like a jackass.
The white 24" iMacs did, I don't think the current ones do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanmugam
i wonder if apple put $10 more on better graphics card, then this issue would not be there at all...
it seems ATI quality much lower than nVidia, Apple should have chosen nVidia hmmm...
I've never had any problem with ATI, and I haven't heard of any systematic problem due to failures or flakiness of ATI chips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyKrz
O.... K.... I'll bite.
What the hell would I do with an HP or Dell? I agree they probably aren't much better in quality... What does that have to do with anything I said about the iMac? I run an all mac office, so HP or Dell wouldn't do me any good.
I think video cards in their desktops might be replaceable by swapping out one card. It's a five minute job.
I'm willing to bet that the internal design is restricting the thermal footprint of the gfx card.
I doubt if an nvidia card of similar power would run that much cooler.
I expect that apple would like to offer an upgrade card like they did with the previous gen imac but are restricted by how much heat the current design can dissipate.
BTW the gfx chip is on a MXM daughter card so is *relatively* easy to replace. unfortunately these cards are pretty propriatory so unlikely to see any 3rd party replacements even if thermal footprint is not the limiting factor.
Boo.
I'm shelving my plans to move to a 24" alu-mac for the time being...
I'm confused. I didn't think the iMac had a graphics card and the GPUs were built onto the motherboard. Would some one more knowledgable correct me if I'm wrong, as I often am.
It depends on the Mac and the chipset. Macs that have an Intel video chipset (MacBook, MacMini, low-end 17" iMac) have them integrated into the logic board. From there, its hit or miss. Some iMacs are using NVidia's MXM technology, which in lay terms is "Mini PCI-Express", so those video adapters are upgradeable. ATI doesn't use this technology (despite it being an open standard), so ATI graphics chipsets are usually integrated right on to the logic board.
I actually am having quite a few freezing issues with my brand new Macbook Pro as well. Even something as silly as the graphics in iDVD freeze and crash more than half the time you open the program. When it does open and stay open the level of video glitches is unlike anything I've experienced on a Mac before.
I have spent a month going back and forth with customer service and the best they offered after many fresh installs, new users and tests was for me to send my new almost 3000 dollar machine back to them for a week.
I decided against that because I have a project due with a serious deadline which is why I purchased the machine to begin with.
Has anyone had similar glitch and crash graphic issues on the newest Macbook Pros?
This issue doesn't seem to me related to thermal or hardware alone. If it were, why would these machines hang when temperatures are well below rated maximums or sometimes when the GPU is hardly even being used?
I own a 24" 2.8Ghz iMac Extreme which demonstrated the issue within its first week, but usually only occurred about once a week (I ordered mine direct from Apple the day it was announced.) Interestingly enough, since I upgraded my OS from 10.4 Tiger to 10.5 Leopard, again installing it before the official release time of 6pm local, I have not had a single hang in any application, whether graphical or audible.
This tells me that, rather than a hardware issue, there was some sort of software interference that caused a kernel panic, as likely to be audio-related as video, since video and audio both froze (got hung in a half-second loop in audio) at the same time for me.
Thermal issues can be easily verified. All you have to do is see if increasing air flow around/through the machine clears the problem. Clearing clutter from underneath the display and moving it a couple inches from the wall should be all you need, but you could try using some sort of fan to either inject cool air from the bottom or pull warm air away from the top to increase flow.
On the other hand, maybe all you need to do is install Leopard or wait for the next Tiger update.
Have you contacted Apple Support directly about your issue? I had a similar issue with my first iMac (one of the 2nd generation CRT all-in-one units) that effectively failed out of the box. After attempting to get it fixed locally (before we had an Apple Store) on the recommendation of the phone technician and getting the runaround by the 'authorized repair station.' my issue was raised to level-three status. I was able to duplicate the issue while talking on the phone with the tech and ended up getting a new one cross-shipped to me, the UPS driver carrying the new one up to my door and the old one down on the same day it arrived.
That replacement machine lasted 5 years, the CRT finally dying first, forcing me to use the RGB output to drive an external monitor until I bought a Mac Mini.
Yes, some techs will try to pass off the issue, this is true in any industry; but if you have AppleCare in particular, it should be a non-issue to get it replaced. Even without AppleCare, if you are under warranty, Apple will make it right.
I have an affected iMac, too. Often freezing while surfing the net or using Pages. I bought it on October 13. Can I get it replaced or am I too late for that?
I have an affected iMac, too. Often freezing while surfing the net or using Pages. I bought it on October 13. Can I get it replaced or am I too late for that?
You have 14 calendar days to replace it, unless you built it to order (BTO) (upgraded memory, hard drive, etc.). Your only option beyond 14 days, and non-BTO, is to get it repaired.
I'm confused. I didn't think the iMac had a graphics card and the GPUs were built onto the motherboard. Would some one more knowledgable correct me if I'm wrong, as I often am.
You're correct, the new iMac does not have a dedicated graphics card and yes, the GPU is built into the logic board.
It depends on the Mac and the chipset. Macs that have an Intel video chipset (MacBook, MacMini, low-end 17" iMac) have them integrated into the logic board. From there, its hit or miss. Some iMacs are using NVidia's MXM technology, which in lay terms is "Mini PCI-Express", so those video adapters are upgradeable. ATI doesn't use this technology (despite it being an open standard), so ATI graphics chipsets are usually integrated right on to the logic board.
Thank you for the response. So, if you are one of the owners of an iMac with a video card, you have the option of buying a replacement or upgrading to a faster video card. Good to know.
It depends on the Mac and the chipset. Macs that have an Intel video chipset (MacBook, MacMini, low-end 17" iMac) have them integrated into the logic board. From there, its hit or miss. Some iMacs are using NVidia's MXM technology, which in lay terms is "Mini PCI-Express", so those video adapters are upgradeable. ATI doesn't use this technology (despite it being an open standard), so ATI graphics chipsets are usually integrated right on to the logic board.
Can't a third party just make an ATI-based MXM card if they wanted it?
This issue doesn't seem to me related to thermal or hardware alone. If it were, why would these machines hang when temperatures are well below rated maximums or sometimes when the GPU is hardly even being used?
I own a 24" 2.8Ghz iMac Extreme which demonstrated the issue within its first week, but usually only occurred about once a week (I ordered mine direct from Apple the day it was announced.) Interestingly enough, since I upgraded my OS from 10.4 Tiger to 10.5 Leopard, again installing it before the official release time of 6pm local, I have not had a single hang in any application, whether graphical or audible.
This tells me that, rather than a hardware issue, there was some sort of software interference that caused a kernel panic, as likely to be audio-related as video, since video and audio both froze (got hung in a half-second loop in audio) at the same time for me.
Thermal issues can be easily verified. All you have to do is see if increasing air flow around/through the machine clears the problem. Clearing clutter from underneath the display and moving it a couple inches from the wall should be all you need, but you could try using some sort of fan to either inject cool air from the bottom or pull warm air away from the top to increase flow.
On the other hand, maybe all you need to do is install Leopard or wait for the next Tiger update.
It's not quite that simple. The heat is extremely localised and given the design of the iMac there isn't much you can do externally to cool it, other than using it inside a refrigerated room. Even then the area concerned will still get hot, it will just take longer to fall over.
When I had overheating problems on my upgraded G4, I opened the case and had a fan blowing across the processor directly. Despite that it would still freeze up when undergoing processor intensive tasks, like audio ripping or file conversions and I could feel the heat coming off it with my hand.
If I manually fanned it with a large board I could get it through tasks that otherwise would lock it up. Extremely tiring and ultimately futile.
btw I got that upgrade from OWC and was dropped like a hot potato immediately it looked like it was a dud. Last time I ever order from them.
I think it's important to mention that these problems are not isolated to iMacs.
I have a Mac Pro with an ATI X1900 XT graphics card, and it is exhibiting the exact same overheating problems described by iMac owners. A quick scan of the Apple discussion forums reveals that a lot of people are having the same problem with the Mac Pro/ATI combination, especially since upgrading to Leopard.
I've been having overheating issues on Windows XP (Boot Camp) for the last two months, but I never had any problems in OS X Tiger. Since upgrading to Leopard, I am experiencing constant graphics artifacts and system freezes.
At first I was sure that the problems were caused by a Leopard graphics driver issue, but it's looking more and more like the problems are the result of ATI's inability to adequately cool their own graphics hardware when placed under a heavy load. Others have posited that Leopard's increased dependence on GPU acceleration is bringing out the overheating problem that is inherent in the latest ATI hardware.
Comments
This will be remedied as it has been in the past, I just hope they have a better supply of replacement parts than they did for the first iMac G5s
LOL... Obviously you were editing as I was responding.
24" iMac's have cards.
The white 24" iMacs did, I don't think the current ones do.
i wonder if apple put $10 more on better graphics card, then this issue would not be there at all...
it seems ATI quality much lower than nVidia, Apple should have chosen nVidia hmmm...
I've never had any problem with ATI, and I haven't heard of any systematic problem due to failures or flakiness of ATI chips.
O.... K.... I'll bite.
What the hell would I do with an HP or Dell? I agree they probably aren't much better in quality... What does that have to do with anything I said about the iMac? I run an all mac office, so HP or Dell wouldn't do me any good.
I think video cards in their desktops might be replaceable by swapping out one card. It's a five minute job.
I doubt if an nvidia card of similar power would run that much cooler.
I expect that apple would like to offer an upgrade card like they did with the previous gen imac but are restricted by how much heat the current design can dissipate.
BTW the gfx chip is on a MXM daughter card so is *relatively* easy to replace. unfortunately these cards are pretty propriatory so unlikely to see any 3rd party replacements even if thermal footprint is not the limiting factor.
Boo.
I'm shelving my plans to move to a 24" alu-mac for the time being...
I'm confused. I didn't think the iMac had a graphics card and the GPUs were built onto the motherboard. Would some one more knowledgable correct me if I'm wrong, as I often am.
It depends on the Mac and the chipset. Macs that have an Intel video chipset (MacBook, MacMini, low-end 17" iMac) have them integrated into the logic board. From there, its hit or miss. Some iMacs are using NVidia's MXM technology, which in lay terms is "Mini PCI-Express", so those video adapters are upgradeable. ATI doesn't use this technology (despite it being an open standard), so ATI graphics chipsets are usually integrated right on to the logic board.
I have spent a month going back and forth with customer service and the best they offered after many fresh installs, new users and tests was for me to send my new almost 3000 dollar machine back to them for a week.
I decided against that because I have a project due with a serious deadline which is why I purchased the machine to begin with.
Has anyone had similar glitch and crash graphic issues on the newest Macbook Pros?
I own a 24" 2.8Ghz iMac Extreme which demonstrated the issue within its first week, but usually only occurred about once a week (I ordered mine direct from Apple the day it was announced.) Interestingly enough, since I upgraded my OS from 10.4 Tiger to 10.5 Leopard, again installing it before the official release time of 6pm local, I have not had a single hang in any application, whether graphical or audible.
This tells me that, rather than a hardware issue, there was some sort of software interference that caused a kernel panic, as likely to be audio-related as video, since video and audio both froze (got hung in a half-second loop in audio) at the same time for me.
Thermal issues can be easily verified. All you have to do is see if increasing air flow around/through the machine clears the problem. Clearing clutter from underneath the display and moving it a couple inches from the wall should be all you need, but you could try using some sort of fan to either inject cool air from the bottom or pull warm air away from the top to increase flow.
On the other hand, maybe all you need to do is install Leopard or wait for the next Tiger update.
Have you contacted Apple Support directly about your issue? I had a similar issue with my first iMac (one of the 2nd generation CRT all-in-one units) that effectively failed out of the box. After attempting to get it fixed locally (before we had an Apple Store) on the recommendation of the phone technician and getting the runaround by the 'authorized repair station.' my issue was raised to level-three status. I was able to duplicate the issue while talking on the phone with the tech and ended up getting a new one cross-shipped to me, the UPS driver carrying the new one up to my door and the old one down on the same day it arrived.
That replacement machine lasted 5 years, the CRT finally dying first, forcing me to use the RGB output to drive an external monitor until I bought a Mac Mini.
Yes, some techs will try to pass off the issue, this is true in any industry; but if you have AppleCare in particular, it should be a non-issue to get it replaced. Even without AppleCare, if you are under warranty, Apple will make it right.
I think I just ruled out getting an iMac for Christmas.
apple will fix that soon, iMac is a great machine with leopard on it ...
I have an affected iMac, too. Often freezing while surfing the net or using Pages. I bought it on October 13. Can I get it replaced or am I too late for that?
You have 14 calendar days to replace it, unless you built it to order (BTO) (upgraded memory, hard drive, etc.). Your only option beyond 14 days, and non-BTO, is to get it repaired.
I'm confused. I didn't think the iMac had a graphics card and the GPUs were built onto the motherboard. Would some one more knowledgable correct me if I'm wrong, as I often am.
You're correct, the new iMac does not have a dedicated graphics card and yes, the GPU is built into the logic board.
It depends on the Mac and the chipset. Macs that have an Intel video chipset (MacBook, MacMini, low-end 17" iMac) have them integrated into the logic board. From there, its hit or miss. Some iMacs are using NVidia's MXM technology, which in lay terms is "Mini PCI-Express", so those video adapters are upgradeable. ATI doesn't use this technology (despite it being an open standard), so ATI graphics chipsets are usually integrated right on to the logic board.
Thank you for the response. So, if you are one of the owners of an iMac with a video card, you have the option of buying a replacement or upgrading to a faster video card. Good to know.
It depends on the Mac and the chipset. Macs that have an Intel video chipset (MacBook, MacMini, low-end 17" iMac) have them integrated into the logic board. From there, its hit or miss. Some iMacs are using NVidia's MXM technology, which in lay terms is "Mini PCI-Express", so those video adapters are upgradeable. ATI doesn't use this technology (despite it being an open standard), so ATI graphics chipsets are usually integrated right on to the logic board.
Can't a third party just make an ATI-based MXM card if they wanted it?
This issue doesn't seem to me related to thermal or hardware alone. If it were, why would these machines hang when temperatures are well below rated maximums or sometimes when the GPU is hardly even being used?
I own a 24" 2.8Ghz iMac Extreme which demonstrated the issue within its first week, but usually only occurred about once a week (I ordered mine direct from Apple the day it was announced.) Interestingly enough, since I upgraded my OS from 10.4 Tiger to 10.5 Leopard, again installing it before the official release time of 6pm local, I have not had a single hang in any application, whether graphical or audible.
This tells me that, rather than a hardware issue, there was some sort of software interference that caused a kernel panic, as likely to be audio-related as video, since video and audio both froze (got hung in a half-second loop in audio) at the same time for me.
Thermal issues can be easily verified. All you have to do is see if increasing air flow around/through the machine clears the problem. Clearing clutter from underneath the display and moving it a couple inches from the wall should be all you need, but you could try using some sort of fan to either inject cool air from the bottom or pull warm air away from the top to increase flow.
On the other hand, maybe all you need to do is install Leopard or wait for the next Tiger update.
It's not quite that simple. The heat is extremely localised and given the design of the iMac there isn't much you can do externally to cool it, other than using it inside a refrigerated room. Even then the area concerned will still get hot, it will just take longer to fall over.
When I had overheating problems on my upgraded G4, I opened the case and had a fan blowing across the processor directly. Despite that it would still freeze up when undergoing processor intensive tasks, like audio ripping or file conversions and I could feel the heat coming off it with my hand.
If I manually fanned it with a large board I could get it through tasks that otherwise would lock it up. Extremely tiring and ultimately futile.
btw I got that upgrade from OWC and was dropped like a hot potato immediately it looked like it was a dud. Last time I ever order from them.
20" model
2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT with 128MB of GDDR3 memory \t
20" model & 24" model
2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO with 256MB of GDDR3 memory
24" model
2.8GHz Intel Core 2 Extreme
ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO with 256MB of GDDR3 memory
Macbook: Intel GMA X3100 graphics processor with 144MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory (Supports 256MB but Apple reserves part of that memory)
Macbook Pro: nVidia
15.4-inch: 2.2GHz (MA895LL/A) 2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
PCI Express: NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT with 128MB of GDDR3 SDRAM and dual-link DVI
15.4-inch: 2.4GHz (MA896LL/A) \t17-inch: 2.4GHz (MA897LL/A) 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
PCI Express: NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT with 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM and dual-link DVI
The iMac graphics are all on-board soldered.
I have a Mac Pro with an ATI X1900 XT graphics card, and it is exhibiting the exact same overheating problems described by iMac owners. A quick scan of the Apple discussion forums reveals that a lot of people are having the same problem with the Mac Pro/ATI combination, especially since upgrading to Leopard.
I've been having overheating issues on Windows XP (Boot Camp) for the last two months, but I never had any problems in OS X Tiger. Since upgrading to Leopard, I am experiencing constant graphics artifacts and system freezes.
At first I was sure that the problems were caused by a Leopard graphics driver issue, but it's looking more and more like the problems are the result of ATI's inability to adequately cool their own graphics hardware when placed under a heavy load. Others have posited that Leopard's increased dependence on GPU acceleration is bringing out the overheating problem that is inherent in the latest ATI hardware.