I hate this argument. My iPhone, if I don't use the data connection, has the same battery life as my Nokia 6680, if I don't use the data connection there. If I don't use the 3G, it doesn't lower the battery life.
The Nokia has a setting for whether to use 3G or GPRS. If you want to use data you can choose whether to get the slower performance or the lower battery life.
Also, when I do use 3G on the Nokia, it gets around 3 hours battery life, when continually downloading. This is on a battery that's 3 years old and a bit shit. I'd be happy with that performance. My iPhone doesn't get much more than that when continually downloading.
Amorya
Why do you hate this argument, because it's correct?
The 6680 is almost twice as thick as the iPhone 20.5 vs 11.6 mm. Because of a larger battery? Couldn't find the mAh specs for the iPhone
The '3G' of the 6680 on the spec site is listed as 384 kbps. With my iPhone I've been getting between 140 and 220 kpbs in most locations in San Diego. So not much of a disadvantage.
I typically get a full 8 hours of combined voice and heavy internet (Web, Mail, RSS) use. If that went down to 4 that would certainly not be worth a 1.5-2+x speed increase, if that was real in all locations.
So it is a very valid tradeoff. Is it right for everyone? Of course not.
You're right, there are a lot of options that the iPhone could have that it doesn't. To deliver a phone that was had a revolutionary touch interface, yet was still semi-affordable required some trade-offs though, like: no GPS, no built-in radio, no 3G, 2mp camera. Looking at it in retrospect as to what apple has created, I agree with a lot of the trade-offs that were made. This is why the iPhone's customer-satisfaction ratings are off the charts. However, like you, I am looking forward to a 16GB 3G model...
I'm a relatively new iPhone user having been surprise gifted the device by my wife. I had been a user of a Nokia phone that offered nearly all the above that is missing, and had learned to enjoy its functionality, so I'm willing to admit that I may not be Apple's target audience.
I doubt the touch interface has anything to do with Apple's decision not to provide certain functionality that is purely software driven. While I understand the lack of 3G, GPS, or radio receiver given the trade-offs, I am surprised the iPhone lacks basic consumer phone features available in nearly all other phones, smart or dumb; the ability to forward a text message, or SMS several people at once, or a "To do list" and a decent calculator. These are applications or functions that would be relatively easy to address, so I assume its a conscious decision Perhaps 3rd party developers will fill the gap.
The lack of a genuine synch with MS Outlook is frustrating but, given that Apple has explicitly not targeted the business market, it is not surprising.
The iPhone is a marvelous consumer device (browser is even better than the press it has received and that's saying something), but for me it's simply not a good enough phone. The UI is innovative and fun, but IMHO, the iPhone is not that "smart." However I recognize that I am not the target audience given my limited interest I have in playing video or music on my phone (although I have discovered the joy in podcasts).
I'll be interested to see how well the iPhone is received beyond Apple's initial enthusiastic base, and how Nokia responds.
Nokia will respond acordingley but it remainsto be seen if they can produce a device which is as snazzy and clean cut as the iphone. One thing which Apple managed to do well is give us a device with a fantasticly easy to use interface which can be used by anyone of any age, the build quality of the phone is superb and the applications which Apple focus on are not where else exceeded by any other phone. But it still lacks a few others which is effectivley holding its progress back. Ill still be getting an iphone, as soon as the prices come down and better tarrifs are available.
All this talk of the N95 made me want to look at this device.
Has anyone actually looked at the Nokia website? If they can't build a decent web-site, what makes anyone confident that they can make a decent web-browser?
In describing the web browser it says: "Smart Text Fit identifies text and fits it to the width of the screen, preserving the original design of the web page. " Huh? The screenshot shows 20 column text and a photo of men hugging? Wouldn't it be more impressive to show us a popular website and see what it looks like?
The N series device pages are very well made im not sure what your referring to. RE though the web browsing on the S60 the coding is based on the same as Safari so apart from the iphone S60 devices give the best browsing experience next down in line.
The N95 was a good feature packed phone but had many negative points: crap build quality, crap battery life, low ram meant many out of memory errors when suring. The N95 8gb has solved those issues but even still it doesnt give you the same experience as using the iphone. I used one on iphone launch day after playing with an iphone for around 2 hours and it just ddint feel the same. its good i guess if you want GPS but for me the iphone still hold the most important things, good video player, good music player, nice surfing experience and excellent build quality and battery life. Im still pissed off there isnt video capture but im hoping that is implemented soon in a sofwtare update assuming of course the iphone has an in built motion sensor.
Also not seen much talk of it but you guys in the US had some price curs recently with the tarrifs. If they did that here in the UK i think it would bost sales a lot. Perhaps after xmas will be a good time to do so once we have seen the P5 and Nokias Touch s60 device presented.
It's a stupid noisy Flash site - which is really badly designed. At least in terms of getting to information I want.
There are "pull down menus" at the top - but only two of them ("experiences" and products) pull down - the other two (applications and workshop) need clicking. What do those words mean anyhow?
On the N95 page - the links for Technical Specs and Product Tutorial make that chirrup noise but don't do anything. All I wanted to see was what a proper web-page looked like on the N95. All I can see is Apple II style fonts. Does it have actual proportional fonts?
I have to leave the N95 page, and go to "Experiences" to see a shot of the browser. It seems unimpressive. If this is supposed to be strong point of the phone, why is Nokia being so coy about it?
I guess my point is, what good is 3G web browsing, if every page looks like ass?
You mean you're too idle. UK population nowhere 70 M, give or take nothing. Took 20 seconds to check. Its 60,776,238 (July 2007 est.) If you don't know a simple fact about the size of your own country you shouldn't be living it it
Whatever. It wasn't 15 million as originally stated. And I did do the maths but it's just too inflammatory around here to even suggest anything other than the sun shining out of Apple's arse.
Reg with their slanted uneven reporting as usual. These numbers are next to meaningless without something to compare them to. We need the sales numbers of other phone around the same price range to give some context to how well or not well the iPhone is selling.
Quote:
it's just too inflammatory around here to even suggest anything other than the sun shining out of Apple's arse.
Its not that you have to love the iPhone. Anyone certainly doesn't have to buy it. But some of you guys go way out of your way to find fault with it.
Reg with their slanted uneven reporting as usual. These numbers are next to meaningless without something to compare them to. We need the sales numbers of other phone around the same price range to give some context to how well or not well the iPhone is selling.
I offer them without comment. There's no report saying anything to counter their claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
Its not that you have to love the iPhone. Anyone certainly doesn't have to buy it. But some of you guys go way out of your way to find fault with it.
Trust me, we don't have to go out of our way. It's like AppleTV all over again.
I offer them without comment. There's no report saying anything to counter their claim.
Most publications seem to be waiting before weighing in on how well iPhones are selling. Reg of course ever quick to report any bad news on Apple.
Quote:
Trust me, we don't have to go out of our way. It's like AppleTV all over again.
In four months the iPhone has grabbed 27% of the US smartphone market, 1 in 4 smartphones sold in the US was an iPhone. Oh yeah the iPhone and AppleTV are in the exact same position.
Most publications seem to be waiting before weighing in on how well iPhones are selling. Reg of course ever quick to report any bad news on Apple.
They do that to everyone, not just Apple, though they've been pretty harsh on them of late. They're the red top tabloid of the IT press. If you were British you'd know where they were coming from and why they knock companies that are just a bit too full of themselves. It's a tradition here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
In four months the iPhone has grabbed 27% of the US smartphone market, 1 in 4 smartphones sold in the US was an iPhone. Oh yeah the iPhone and AppleTV are in the exact same position.
You really don't think you're expectations are a bit inflated? You attempt to show the iPhone to be a flop based on sales numbers for its fist day of sales. Usually a success or a flop is measured against the sales of similar devices at similar price points at least over the length of a quarter.
We won't see the true picture of how well the iPhone is doing until after Christmas.
without sounding too smug, i long suspected the iphone could possibly be a flop in the UK. the british public are too sophisticated to fall for just the 'pretty face' of the iphone. the US is behind europe in telephony development, and the british demand more from their phones than the iphone and its hype could deliver. to list just a few ways this phone falls behind the competition and hence doesn't fulfil its full potential:
1) it has no 3G
2) it has a crappy 2 mega pixel camera with no autofocus/ flash
3) you cannot record video clips on it
4)it has no GPS
5) it has no in-built radio (FM or DAB radio)
6) you cannot replace the battery or SIM
7) you cannot upgrade the memory with a memory card
8) you cannot customise the interface as you wish (wallpapers, icons?), neither can you use the songs you save on this phone as your ringtone
9) tied to one operator and apple's attempt to lock the phone? ripoff
i will go on the record and say that i suspect it will equally fail to set trails blazing in its launches in the advanced countries of asia - japan, korea, etc for the same reasons given above. besides, the delayed launch for asia has given the competition fair time to develop their own answers the iphone.
apple have made a revolutionary product, but have hampered it so badly that all its innovation is tarnished. this infuriates and frustrates me, as i so badly want an iphone but am discouraged by its drawbacks and the fact my current phone has more functionality than this phone!!!
Written by someone who obviously does not have an iPhone, but wants one. What's the word. Tantrum?
Written by someone who obviously does not have an iPhone, but wants one. What's the word. Tantrum?
i don't deny what you say - i say the same in my last statement. my point is that i - along with many others - will be holding back from buying this device because it is a step backwards to what we are currently using. i currently own a nokia n95 and a blackberry. i had hoped the iphone would be the device to replace both. it obviously is not going to happen.
THE IPHONE IS A BEAUTIFUL DEVICE THAT IS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED...
i don't deny what you say - i say the same in my last statement. my point is that i - along with many others - will be holding back from buying this device because it is a step backwards to what we are currently using. i currently own a nokia n95 and a blackberry. i had hoped the iphone would be the device to replace both. it obviously is not going to happen.
THE IPHONE IS A BEAUTIFUL DEVICE THAT IS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED...
In Your Opinion based on features You desire. Other's don't.
You really don't think you're expectations are a bit inflated? You attempt to show the iPhone to be a flop based on sales numbers for its fist day of sales. Usually a success or a flop is measured against the sales of similar devices at similar price points at least over the length of a quarter.
I've done nothing of the sort. Appleinsider quoted the first day sales. I've quoted The Reg figures. I've absolutely no expectations on how many it'd sell. How would I know anyway?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
We won't see the true picture of how well the iPhone is doing until after Christmas.
Or we may never see the true picture since nobody else is actually quoting sales figures for how well their phones are doing for comparison just now.
This morning though, on the train, in the paper Carphone Warehouse were giving away FREE SE W910i phones with a free iPod Nano and an O2 contract that was better than they fleece you for with the iPhone. This is in the same store as those selling an iPhone. http://www.carphonewarehouse.com
I understand that the feature set doesn't meet your particular needs and expectations. Frankly I'm holding out for 3g whatever is next. I think 3rd party apps will be nice too.
But the iPhone is still a remarkable device that isn't 'fatally flawed' as mentioned earlier. The iPhone has received the highest customer satisfaction scores ever for a cell phone in pc magazines most recent survey.
Its not perfect but its still pretty damn good. Nonetheless_must_resist_and_wait_for_next_version.
Comments
I hate this argument. My iPhone, if I don't use the data connection, has the same battery life as my Nokia 6680, if I don't use the data connection there. If I don't use the 3G, it doesn't lower the battery life.
The Nokia has a setting for whether to use 3G or GPRS. If you want to use data you can choose whether to get the slower performance or the lower battery life.
Also, when I do use 3G on the Nokia, it gets around 3 hours battery life, when continually downloading. This is on a battery that's 3 years old and a bit shit. I'd be happy with that performance. My iPhone doesn't get much more than that when continually downloading.
Amorya
Why do you hate this argument, because it's correct?
The 6680 is almost twice as thick as the iPhone 20.5 vs 11.6 mm. Because of a larger battery? Couldn't find the mAh specs for the iPhone
The '3G' of the 6680 on the spec site is listed as 384 kbps. With my iPhone I've been getting between 140 and 220 kpbs in most locations in San Diego. So not much of a disadvantage.
I typically get a full 8 hours of combined voice and heavy internet (Web, Mail, RSS) use. If that went down to 4 that would certainly not be worth a 1.5-2+x speed increase, if that was real in all locations.
So it is a very valid tradeoff. Is it right for everyone? Of course not.
You're right, there are a lot of options that the iPhone could have that it doesn't. To deliver a phone that was had a revolutionary touch interface, yet was still semi-affordable required some trade-offs though, like: no GPS, no built-in radio, no 3G, 2mp camera. Looking at it in retrospect as to what apple has created, I agree with a lot of the trade-offs that were made. This is why the iPhone's customer-satisfaction ratings are off the charts. However, like you, I am looking forward to a 16GB 3G model...
I'm a relatively new iPhone user having been surprise gifted the device by my wife. I had been a user of a Nokia phone that offered nearly all the above that is missing, and had learned to enjoy its functionality, so I'm willing to admit that I may not be Apple's target audience.
I doubt the touch interface has anything to do with Apple's decision not to provide certain functionality that is purely software driven. While I understand the lack of 3G, GPS, or radio receiver given the trade-offs, I am surprised the iPhone lacks basic consumer phone features available in nearly all other phones, smart or dumb; the ability to forward a text message, or SMS several people at once, or a "To do list" and a decent calculator. These are applications or functions that would be relatively easy to address, so I assume its a conscious decision Perhaps 3rd party developers will fill the gap.
The lack of a genuine synch with MS Outlook is frustrating but, given that Apple has explicitly not targeted the business market, it is not surprising.
The iPhone is a marvelous consumer device (browser is even better than the press it has received and that's saying something), but for me it's simply not a good enough phone. The UI is innovative and fun, but IMHO, the iPhone is not that "smart." However I recognize that I am not the target audience given my limited interest I have in playing video or music on my phone (although I have discovered the joy in podcasts).
I'll be interested to see how well the iPhone is received beyond Apple's initial enthusiastic base, and how Nokia responds.
Has anyone actually looked at the Nokia website? If they can't build a decent web-site, what makes anyone confident that they can make a decent web-browser?
In describing the web browser it says: "Smart Text Fit identifies text and fits it to the width of the screen, preserving the original design of the web page. " Huh? The screenshot shows 20 column text and a photo of men hugging? Wouldn't it be more impressive to show us a popular website and see what it looks like?
C.
The N95 was a good feature packed phone but had many negative points: crap build quality, crap battery life, low ram meant many out of memory errors when suring. The N95 8gb has solved those issues but even still it doesnt give you the same experience as using the iphone. I used one on iphone launch day after playing with an iphone for around 2 hours and it just ddint feel the same. its good i guess if you want GPS but for me the iphone still hold the most important things, good video player, good music player, nice surfing experience and excellent build quality and battery life. Im still pissed off there isnt video capture but im hoping that is implemented soon in a sofwtare update assuming of course the iphone has an in built motion sensor.
Also not seen much talk of it but you guys in the US had some price curs recently with the tarrifs. If they did that here in the UK i think it would bost sales a lot. Perhaps after xmas will be a good time to do so once we have seen the P5 and Nokias Touch s60 device presented.
There are "pull down menus" at the top - but only two of them ("experiences" and products) pull down - the other two (applications and workshop) need clicking. What do those words mean anyhow?
On the N95 page - the links for Technical Specs and Product Tutorial make that chirrup noise but don't do anything. All I wanted to see was what a proper web-page looked like on the N95. All I can see is Apple II style fonts. Does it have actual proportional fonts?
I have to leave the N95 page, and go to "Experiences" to see a shot of the browser. It seems unimpressive. If this is supposed to be strong point of the phone, why is Nokia being so coy about it?
I guess my point is, what good is 3G web browsing, if every page looks like ass?
C.
But it still lacks a few others which is effectivley holding its progress back.
Holding its progress back based on what exactly?
You mean you're too idle. UK population nowhere 70 M, give or take nothing. Took 20 seconds to check. Its 60,776,238 (July 2007 est.) If you don't know a simple fact about the size of your own country you shouldn't be living it it
Whatever. It wasn't 15 million as originally stated. And I did do the maths but it's just too inflammatory around here to even suggest anything other than the sun shining out of Apple's arse.
26,500 activations so far.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/11...e_activations/
26,500 activations so far.
Reg with their slanted uneven reporting as usual. These numbers are next to meaningless without something to compare them to. We need the sales numbers of other phone around the same price range to give some context to how well or not well the iPhone is selling.
it's just too inflammatory around here to even suggest anything other than the sun shining out of Apple's arse.
Its not that you have to love the iPhone. Anyone certainly doesn't have to buy it. But some of you guys go way out of your way to find fault with it.
Reg with their slanted uneven reporting as usual. These numbers are next to meaningless without something to compare them to. We need the sales numbers of other phone around the same price range to give some context to how well or not well the iPhone is selling.
I offer them without comment. There's no report saying anything to counter their claim.
Its not that you have to love the iPhone. Anyone certainly doesn't have to buy it. But some of you guys go way out of your way to find fault with it.
Trust me, we don't have to go out of our way. It's like AppleTV all over again.
I offer them without comment. There's no report saying anything to counter their claim.
Most publications seem to be waiting before weighing in on how well iPhones are selling. Reg of course ever quick to report any bad news on Apple.
Trust me, we don't have to go out of our way. It's like AppleTV all over again.
In four months the iPhone has grabbed 27% of the US smartphone market, 1 in 4 smartphones sold in the US was an iPhone. Oh yeah the iPhone and AppleTV are in the exact same position.
Most publications seem to be waiting before weighing in on how well iPhones are selling. Reg of course ever quick to report any bad news on Apple.
They do that to everyone, not just Apple, though they've been pretty harsh on them of late. They're the red top tabloid of the IT press. If you were British you'd know where they were coming from and why they knock companies that are just a bit too full of themselves. It's a tradition here.
In four months the iPhone has grabbed 27% of the US smartphone market, 1 in 4 smartphones sold in the US was an iPhone. Oh yeah the iPhone and AppleTV are in the exact same position.
The clue is in the title of the thread.
The clue is in the title of the thread.
You really don't think you're expectations are a bit inflated? You attempt to show the iPhone to be a flop based on sales numbers for its fist day of sales. Usually a success or a flop is measured against the sales of similar devices at similar price points at least over the length of a quarter.
We won't see the true picture of how well the iPhone is doing until after Christmas.
I'm not sure I agree with the Daily Mail...
Stop there... That's all that needs to be said.
without sounding too smug, i long suspected the iphone could possibly be a flop in the UK. the british public are too sophisticated to fall for just the 'pretty face' of the iphone. the US is behind europe in telephony development, and the british demand more from their phones than the iphone and its hype could deliver. to list just a few ways this phone falls behind the competition and hence doesn't fulfil its full potential:
1) it has no 3G
2) it has a crappy 2 mega pixel camera with no autofocus/ flash
3) you cannot record video clips on it
4)it has no GPS
5) it has no in-built radio (FM or DAB radio)
6) you cannot replace the battery or SIM
7) you cannot upgrade the memory with a memory card
8) you cannot customise the interface as you wish (wallpapers, icons?), neither can you use the songs you save on this phone as your ringtone
9) tied to one operator and apple's attempt to lock the phone? ripoff
i will go on the record and say that i suspect it will equally fail to set trails blazing in its launches in the advanced countries of asia - japan, korea, etc for the same reasons given above. besides, the delayed launch for asia has given the competition fair time to develop their own answers the iphone.
apple have made a revolutionary product, but have hampered it so badly that all its innovation is tarnished. this infuriates and frustrates me, as i so badly want an iphone but am discouraged by its drawbacks and the fact my current phone has more functionality than this phone!!!
Written by someone who obviously does not have an iPhone, but wants one. What's the word. Tantrum?
Written by someone who obviously does not have an iPhone, but wants one. What's the word. Tantrum?
i don't deny what you say - i say the same in my last statement. my point is that i - along with many others - will be holding back from buying this device because it is a step backwards to what we are currently using. i currently own a nokia n95 and a blackberry. i had hoped the iphone would be the device to replace both. it obviously is not going to happen.
THE IPHONE IS A BEAUTIFUL DEVICE THAT IS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED...
i don't deny what you say - i say the same in my last statement. my point is that i - along with many others - will be holding back from buying this device because it is a step backwards to what we are currently using. i currently own a nokia n95 and a blackberry. i had hoped the iphone would be the device to replace both. it obviously is not going to happen.
THE IPHONE IS A BEAUTIFUL DEVICE THAT IS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED...
In Your Opinion based on features You desire. Other's don't.
You really don't think you're expectations are a bit inflated? You attempt to show the iPhone to be a flop based on sales numbers for its fist day of sales. Usually a success or a flop is measured against the sales of similar devices at similar price points at least over the length of a quarter.
I've done nothing of the sort. Appleinsider quoted the first day sales. I've quoted The Reg figures. I've absolutely no expectations on how many it'd sell. How would I know anyway?
We won't see the true picture of how well the iPhone is doing until after Christmas.
Or we may never see the true picture since nobody else is actually quoting sales figures for how well their phones are doing for comparison just now.
This morning though, on the train, in the paper Carphone Warehouse were giving away FREE SE W910i phones with a free iPod Nano and an O2 contract that was better than they fleece you for with the iPhone. This is in the same store as those selling an iPhone. http://www.carphonewarehouse.com
I understand that the feature set doesn't meet your particular needs and expectations. Frankly I'm holding out for 3g whatever is next. I think 3rd party apps will be nice too.
But the iPhone is still a remarkable device that isn't 'fatally flawed' as mentioned earlier. The iPhone has received the highest customer satisfaction scores ever for a cell phone in pc magazines most recent survey.
Its not perfect but its still pretty damn good. Nonetheless_must_resist_and_wait_for_next_version.