iSuppli isn't pretending it's the profit margin. It's the too many people that see those numbers misinterpret the information and assume it's profit margin when it's not the case.
I'm not sure why you think the component pricing they estimate is unreasonably low.
You must've missed the post I replied to where someone used iSuppli's numbers as the basis for their claim about what a fair price should be.
As for their pricing estimates, as I wrote, they base their numbers entirely on the raw cost of materials, based on unmodified stock parts. It is well known that parts are modified (or ordered with custom features). Those prices are going to be higher (possibly much higher) than the price for the stock configuration. They also treat the cost of software as zero, which (for something as groundbreaking as an iPhone is far from cheap).
You must've missed the post I replied to where someone used iSuppli's numbers as the basis for their claim about what a fair price should be.
I know, I didn't miss that.
Quote:
As for their pricing estimates, as I wrote, they base their numbers entirely on the raw cost of materials, based on unmodified stock parts. It is well known that parts are modified (or ordered with custom features). Those prices are going to be higher (possibly much higher) than the price for the stock configuration.
With Apple's volumes, that's highly doubtful.
Quote:
They also treat the cost of software as zero, which (for something as groundbreaking as an iPhone is far from cheap).
I'm pretty sure gross margin isn't supposed to count the cost of software or R&D. If they were looking for net margin, then you'd have a valid point, but they weren't.
Leaving aside iSuppli's cost estimates, as someone pointed out earlier, the unsubsidised retail price of an iPhone can't be much more than an iPod Touch + basic 2G phone hardware.
ie. iPod Touch = ?299 + basic SE phone (eg SE W200i which goes for £40 on t-mobile PAYG with no contract in the UK, maybe more in Germany)
That's actually less than they sell the iPhone at with a contract. So ?999 does seem arbitrarily expensive.
In light of the rumour that in France Orange are selling the unlocked phone at only a ?100 premium it also makes the ?999 price seem totally 'unfair' whereby I'm using the idea of fairness as an honourable comparison not as some US capitalist market driven metric to weed out 'whiners' and the poor.
Leaving aside iSuppli's cost estimates, as someone pointed out earlier, the unsubsidised retail price of an iPhone can't be much more than an iPod Touch + basic 2G phone hardware.
ie. iPod Touch = €299 + basic SE phone (eg SE W200i which goes for £40 on t-mobile PAYG with no contract in the UK, maybe more in Germany)
That's actually less than they sell the iPhone at with a contract. So €999 does seem arbitrarily expensive.
In light of the rumour that in France Orange are selling the unlocked phone at only a €100 premium it also makes the €999 price seem totally 'unfair' whereby I'm using the idea of fairness as an honourable comparison not as some US capitalist market driven metric to weed out 'whiners' and the poor.
Hey, I heard that!
Again, what does "honorable" have to do with it? Offing a luxury product for sale isn't an act of altruism.
When such a product that is already "fairly" priced goes on sale, do you thank the manufacturer for their tender hearted gift, since any discount on "already fair" obviously puts us into "generous" territory?
I have no problem with terms like "poorly considered" or "incomprehensibly wrong headed" or "inevitably self-defeating" when it comes to the pricing of inessential products. Or, if you like "bone headed", "stupid" or "WTF?", as these speak to the relative wisdom of offering a luxury product at a price point that turns away buyers.
So as far as all of this being some kind of "US capitalistic market driven metric to weed out 'whiners' and the poor".....
Really? The unlocked pricing of a luxury consumer good like an iPhone is an example of economic injustice? Sorry, that strikes me as utter bullshit.
I care about the pricing of basic food, housing, clothing, etc. I care about corporations not abusing the economies that host them, or the planet from which they extract resources from. I care about a living wage for workers, and the quality of their working environment.
I do not care, outside the entirely trivial matter of what shiny new toys I might afford, about how luxury consumer goods are priced, and to pretend like such pricing has fuck all to do with treatment of "the poor" is to insanely trivialize the stuff that does mattter.
Apple could offer the iPhone at ten times what they are, or further convolute the story by offering all kinds of tiered pricing depending on assorted variables.
So what? The iPhone doesn't sell. Are the lives of the poor, or those of modest means, or the middle class or the rich therefore manifestly impoverished? Of course not-- they buy something else. For the poor's part, I'm thinking that lack of value priced multi-touch internet surfing phones isn't really high on the list of concerns.
At around ?1000 so £700 nice why not just bump it up to ?1500 so it hits the £1000 mark so we can archive this Vodafone tantrum
Actually this place sells unlocked iphones really cheap sends their phones international to Europe. I just got mine and it works perfectly. www.chronochrono.com $550 us dollars!
Although.... I wasn't aware that it is an European value to demand that luxury consumer goods be offered at "fair" prices. Is access to iPhones considered a quality of life issue, thereabouts?
Its back to the courts in Hamburg on Thursday 29. Nov. for another hearing - and Telekom is hoping to get the former order reversed, so there could be no more unlocked iPhones in Stores by the end of the week!
Comments
iSuppli isn't pretending it's the profit margin. It's the too many people that see those numbers misinterpret the information and assume it's profit margin when it's not the case.
I'm not sure why you think the component pricing they estimate is unreasonably low.
You must've missed the post I replied to where someone used iSuppli's numbers as the basis for their claim about what a fair price should be.
As for their pricing estimates, as I wrote, they base their numbers entirely on the raw cost of materials, based on unmodified stock parts. It is well known that parts are modified (or ordered with custom features). Those prices are going to be higher (possibly much higher) than the price for the stock configuration. They also treat the cost of software as zero, which (for something as groundbreaking as an iPhone is far from cheap).
You must've missed the post I replied to where someone used iSuppli's numbers as the basis for their claim about what a fair price should be.
I know, I didn't miss that.
As for their pricing estimates, as I wrote, they base their numbers entirely on the raw cost of materials, based on unmodified stock parts. It is well known that parts are modified (or ordered with custom features). Those prices are going to be higher (possibly much higher) than the price for the stock configuration.
With Apple's volumes, that's highly doubtful.
They also treat the cost of software as zero, which (for something as groundbreaking as an iPhone is far from cheap).
I'm pretty sure gross margin isn't supposed to count the cost of software or R&D. If they were looking for net margin, then you'd have a valid point, but they weren't.
ie. iPod Touch = ?299 + basic SE phone (eg SE W200i which goes for £40 on t-mobile PAYG with no contract in the UK, maybe more in Germany)
That's actually less than they sell the iPhone at with a contract. So ?999 does seem arbitrarily expensive.
In light of the rumour that in France Orange are selling the unlocked phone at only a ?100 premium it also makes the ?999 price seem totally 'unfair' whereby I'm using the idea of fairness as an honourable comparison not as some US capitalist market driven metric to weed out 'whiners' and the poor.
Leaving aside iSuppli's cost estimates, as someone pointed out earlier, the unsubsidised retail price of an iPhone can't be much more than an iPod Touch + basic 2G phone hardware.
ie. iPod Touch = €299 + basic SE phone (eg SE W200i which goes for £40 on t-mobile PAYG with no contract in the UK, maybe more in Germany)
That's actually less than they sell the iPhone at with a contract. So €999 does seem arbitrarily expensive.
In light of the rumour that in France Orange are selling the unlocked phone at only a €100 premium it also makes the €999 price seem totally 'unfair' whereby I'm using the idea of fairness as an honourable comparison not as some US capitalist market driven metric to weed out 'whiners' and the poor.
Hey, I heard that!
Again, what does "honorable" have to do with it? Offing a luxury product for sale isn't an act of altruism.
When such a product that is already "fairly" priced goes on sale, do you thank the manufacturer for their tender hearted gift, since any discount on "already fair" obviously puts us into "generous" territory?
I have no problem with terms like "poorly considered" or "incomprehensibly wrong headed" or "inevitably self-defeating" when it comes to the pricing of inessential products. Or, if you like "bone headed", "stupid" or "WTF?", as these speak to the relative wisdom of offering a luxury product at a price point that turns away buyers.
So as far as all of this being some kind of "US capitalistic market driven metric to weed out 'whiners' and the poor".....
Really? The unlocked pricing of a luxury consumer good like an iPhone is an example of economic injustice? Sorry, that strikes me as utter bullshit.
I care about the pricing of basic food, housing, clothing, etc. I care about corporations not abusing the economies that host them, or the planet from which they extract resources from. I care about a living wage for workers, and the quality of their working environment.
I do not care, outside the entirely trivial matter of what shiny new toys I might afford, about how luxury consumer goods are priced, and to pretend like such pricing has fuck all to do with treatment of "the poor" is to insanely trivialize the stuff that does mattter.
Apple could offer the iPhone at ten times what they are, or further convolute the story by offering all kinds of tiered pricing depending on assorted variables.
So what? The iPhone doesn't sell. Are the lives of the poor, or those of modest means, or the middle class or the rich therefore manifestly impoverished? Of course not-- they buy something else. For the poor's part, I'm thinking that lack of value priced multi-touch internet surfing phones isn't really high on the list of concerns.
Here it begins then..
At around ?1000 so £700 nice
Actually this place sells unlocked iphones really cheap sends their phones international to Europe. I just got mine and it works perfectly. www.chronochrono.com $550 us dollars!
addabox, well done on being very American.
Thanks!
Although.... I wasn't aware that it is an European value to demand that luxury consumer goods be offered at "fair" prices. Is access to iPhones considered a quality of life issue, thereabouts?