I think perhaps Europeans also use more of those features so learn them and use them regularly enough that they become second nature.
That's likely true. Over here, people don't seem to be as interested. I know a fair amount of others who also have Treo's, and most use few of the features, and own no other programs for them.
Different markets. Apple knows this one very well, perhaps not so well, others.
Quote:
I don't think it's very hard to implement. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't just a case of Apple providing an XServe or three to the carrier that acts like a mail server with the carrier only having to link that in with their existing voicemail system. Visual Voicemail works over a data connection IIRC, not the voice line.
I don't know what it involves. I do know that ATT said that they had to write new software, modify their own, and have a testing period.
This isn't only about France or Germany. Its economic disincentive to make it difficult to buy a glut of iPhones and sell them on the grey market around the world.
Quote:
Not the case in Europe. We're all GSM here but some have very different plans, addons and freebies. Apple are bucking that trend by trying to lock in carriers and plans US style, and we don't like it.
I certainly agree that the tariffs being offerd are not very attractive.
I told the o2 manager at my local shop... 'Unless I get hit by red kryptonite? I won't be buying one.'
There may be quite a few UK buyers who agree with me.
Want to own the market? Cheaper contract. PAYG. I don't mind paying more on the phone.
It's just a revolutionary phone, folks.
Apple did the right thing with the price drop.
Now it's o2's turn.
Lemon Bon Bon.
It's Apple and O2's right to charge whatever they want or feel the market can bear but the tariffs are much higher for an iPhone and that simply has to be because Apple has insisted on getting a significant share of carrier revenues. Apple may have to give up much more if they want more sales. Then again, they might be quite happy with what they have right now.
Apple may have to give up much more if they want more sales. Then again, they might be quite happy with what they have right now.
That's another great point. I don't know what their manufacturing capacity is, but if they're operating near peak and don't expect to be able to boost production for a while, then a lower price will only create a shortage without raising profits.
I did not. I addressed it with the second part of my response. That the locked iPhone was priced higher than normal rather than the unlocked price being a function of that price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamino
A locked iPhone costs $400 in the US, when other locked AT&T smartphones cost $150-200. If a locked iPhone costs twice what other smartphones cost, it stands to reason that an unlocked one will cost twice what some other unlocked smartphones cost.
I'm sure it's not that simple. It appears to me that Apple's accounting scheme is different.
Apple are rumoured to be getting up to 30% of revenue each month from the carrier whereas Nokia do not do that. Both will sell a phone to the carrier at say $200 (I'm just making up a figure here). Once Nokia have their cash though, they're out of the picture, not Apple.
Since Apple demand a 30% kickback each month, the carrier charges the customer more up front so they (the carrier) aren't out of pocket over the life of the contract. The customer is essentially subsidising the carrier. The high unlocked price pays for the kickback.
With Nokia, the carrier doesn't have to pay a kickback to Nokia each month so they don't have to sell the locked phone at such a high price. The carrier is subsidising the purchase of the handset which they amortise over the life of the contract.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamino
All the discussions of "an iPhone contains 20 cents worth of used pinball parts, so Apple is ripping you off" were beaten to death when the device was first introduce months ago. If you want to continue that thread, please take it over there.
In this thread, the complaints have specifically been about the price difference between the locked and unlocked models. It is unreasonable to expect a phone with a much higher base-price to not also have a much-higher unlocked price.
Again, I'm sure it's not that simple. The example I gave was an N95 8GB which is available for NOTHING here locked with a contract similar to an iPhone, but costs MORE unlocked than an unlocked iPhone does in France. Basing the unlocked price as a multiplier of the locked price in that situation is obviously ridiculous. There's more to it than just component costs.
I wasn't getting in to the parts breakdown situation at all but really, do you think an N95 8GB is cheaper to manufacture than the iPhone? I would say no. They're probably similarly expensive to manufacture. The different unlocked price is in the accounting details.
And I just got my associates in Germany to send me an unlocked iPhone for Euro 999. Here are some details why I think it was a good deal. Firstly, I am from a red dot called Singapore. Our expected iPhone Lanuch date is somewhere Q3 next year. (Provide this doesn't slip) At the moment, there are "unlocked" versions of the iPhone going for SGD$850.00 or so which is USD$588.00 of course, no upgrades without risking bricking your new shinny iphone. I took a very deep breath and made the order of that said iphone which is on its way to me now (left Germany on Tuesday) because I need it for my employees to play with it. (In case people are wondering, it is SGD$2133.00) I honestly think that the Euro 250.00 is a big slap in the face. However I don't have associates in France to purchase them for me. Speaking of which if you can lay your hands on offical unlocked iphones from France, I have buyers in Singapore and Australia looking for them. And a local Telco friend informs me that it is possible but not worth the effort to get them at SGD$1500.00 from certain sales channels from Apple for operator evaluations which are fully unlocked.
But back to my vent, luckily, I can write off the cost of the Euro 999 against business cost. (Designing Games for a living does have its tax advantages) In asia, it is cheap to buy a mobile phone. And it is important to have it sim unlocked. I have seen people which travel between China and Hong Kong switching SIMS cards after they cross the border for the cheaper costs. For those who travel, a cheap prepaid card is cheaper then paying the roaming charges. (I had to pay a USD$75.00 for a 30 minute phone call in LA back to Singapore) which is well, over the top. The biggest thing out in the Greater China region now is mobile phones which can support 2 sim cards. And we have telcos now offering multiple sim cards for the same number. Phones here have become a tool and a lifestyle.
At SGD$2133 is alot of money, however, it still not the most expensive phone in the market, I have seen phones with $12000 price tags (Vertu)
And honestly, I know for a fact that under Singapore law, all phones cannot have a carrier lock here when sold. Which means that if you want to wait till say Q3 2008, I think you can get the iphone unlock from here for say USD$400.00 which maybe the 3G model. Go figure.
P.S. If there are any iphone freelance programmer looking for work, PM or email me.
Comments
I think perhaps Europeans also use more of those features so learn them and use them regularly enough that they become second nature.
That's likely true. Over here, people don't seem to be as interested. I know a fair amount of others who also have Treo's, and most use few of the features, and own no other programs for them.
Different markets. Apple knows this one very well, perhaps not so well, others.
I don't think it's very hard to implement. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't just a case of Apple providing an XServe or three to the carrier that acts like a mail server with the carrier only having to link that in with their existing voicemail system. Visual Voicemail works over a data connection IIRC, not the voice line.
I don't know what it involves. I do know that ATT said that they had to write new software, modify their own, and have a testing period.
1100 bucks for a phone? Jeez Apple...
This isn't only about France or Germany. Its economic disincentive to make it difficult to buy a glut of iPhones and sell them on the grey market around the world.
Not the case in Europe. We're all GSM here but some have very different plans, addons and freebies. Apple are bucking that trend by trying to lock in carriers and plans US style, and we don't like it.
I certainly agree that the tariffs being offerd are not very attractive.
I told the o2 manager at my local shop... 'Unless I get hit by red kryptonite? I won't be buying one.'
There may be quite a few UK buyers who agree with me.
Want to own the market? Cheaper contract. PAYG. I don't mind paying more on the phone.
It's just a revolutionary phone, folks.
Apple did the right thing with the price drop.
Now it's o2's turn.
Lemon Bon Bon.
It's Apple and O2's right to charge whatever they want or feel the market can bear but the tariffs are much higher for an iPhone and that simply has to be because Apple has insisted on getting a significant share of carrier revenues. Apple may have to give up much more if they want more sales. Then again, they might be quite happy with what they have right now.
Apple may have to give up much more if they want more sales. Then again, they might be quite happy with what they have right now.
That's another great point. I don't know what their manufacturing capacity is, but if they're operating near peak and don't expect to be able to boost production for a while, then a lower price will only create a shortage without raising profits.
You're ignoring my point.
I did not. I addressed it with the second part of my response. That the locked iPhone was priced higher than normal rather than the unlocked price being a function of that price.
A locked iPhone costs $400 in the US, when other locked AT&T smartphones cost $150-200. If a locked iPhone costs twice what other smartphones cost, it stands to reason that an unlocked one will cost twice what some other unlocked smartphones cost.
I'm sure it's not that simple. It appears to me that Apple's accounting scheme is different.
Apple are rumoured to be getting up to 30% of revenue each month from the carrier whereas Nokia do not do that. Both will sell a phone to the carrier at say $200 (I'm just making up a figure here). Once Nokia have their cash though, they're out of the picture, not Apple.
Since Apple demand a 30% kickback each month, the carrier charges the customer more up front so they (the carrier) aren't out of pocket over the life of the contract. The customer is essentially subsidising the carrier. The high unlocked price pays for the kickback.
With Nokia, the carrier doesn't have to pay a kickback to Nokia each month so they don't have to sell the locked phone at such a high price. The carrier is subsidising the purchase of the handset which they amortise over the life of the contract.
All the discussions of "an iPhone contains 20 cents worth of used pinball parts, so Apple is ripping you off" were beaten to death when the device was first introduce months ago. If you want to continue that thread, please take it over there.
In this thread, the complaints have specifically been about the price difference between the locked and unlocked models. It is unreasonable to expect a phone with a much higher base-price to not also have a much-higher unlocked price.
Again, I'm sure it's not that simple. The example I gave was an N95 8GB which is available for NOTHING here locked with a contract similar to an iPhone, but costs MORE unlocked than an unlocked iPhone does in France. Basing the unlocked price as a multiplier of the locked price in that situation is obviously ridiculous. There's more to it than just component costs.
I wasn't getting in to the parts breakdown situation at all but really, do you think an N95 8GB is cheaper to manufacture than the iPhone? I would say no. They're probably similarly expensive to manufacture. The different unlocked price is in the accounting details.
But back to my vent, luckily, I can write off the cost of the Euro 999 against business cost. (Designing Games for a living does have its tax advantages) In asia, it is cheap to buy a mobile phone. And it is important to have it sim unlocked. I have seen people which travel between China and Hong Kong switching SIMS cards after they cross the border for the cheaper costs. For those who travel, a cheap prepaid card is cheaper then paying the roaming charges. (I had to pay a USD$75.00 for a 30 minute phone call in LA back to Singapore) which is well, over the top. The biggest thing out in the Greater China region now is mobile phones which can support 2 sim cards. And we have telcos now offering multiple sim cards for the same number. Phones here have become a tool and a lifestyle.
At SGD$2133 is alot of money, however, it still not the most expensive phone in the market, I have seen phones with $12000 price tags (Vertu)
And honestly, I know for a fact that under Singapore law, all phones cannot have a carrier lock here when sold. Which means that if you want to wait till say Q3 2008, I think you can get the iphone unlock from here for say USD$400.00 which maybe the 3G model. Go figure.
P.S. If there are any iphone freelance programmer looking for work, PM or email me.
No Englishman deserves such a fate.
When the French riot, it's for political/economic reasons; when the English riot, it's because it's Saturday night.