Mitchell Report

Posted:
in AppleOutsider edited January 2014
Mitchell Report



http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153509



...who's on the report?



http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153646



Wow, some suprising, other not so suprising. I thought for certain Sammy Sosa would be on the list, but he's not. Either way, some rather big names...MLB get your asterick engines ready...
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 29
    I stopped watching baseball years ago. If it finally dies, good riddance.
  • Reply 2 of 29
    mydomydo Posts: 1,888member
    Those cyclists should know not to dope like that. What sport are we talking about?
  • Reply 3 of 29
    This is exactly why I didn't start this topic...
  • Reply 4 of 29
    There was one episode of "Numbers" that hinted that if a really really smart person/ team were to "do the Math", by processing massive amounts of baseball stats they could identify who was doping...
  • Reply 5 of 29
    mydomydo Posts: 1,888member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    There was one episode of "Numbers" that hinted that if a really really smart person/ team were to "do the Math", by processing massive amounts of baseball stats they could identify who was doping...



    Yea that's like Freakenomics. It depends on the signal to noise ratio.
  • Reply 6 of 29
    dentondenton Posts: 725member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post


    Mitchell Report



    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153509



    ...who's on the report?



    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153646



    Wow, some suprising, other not so suprising. I thought for certain Sammy Sosa would be on the list, but he's not. Either way, some rather big names...MLB get your asterick engines ready...



    It's sort of hard to go back in time and change things, but if baseball (and any other sports) wants to clean things up, I like the following idea (not my idea):



    1. (obvious) Institute independent random testing.

    2. (extreme) When a player signs a contract, there is a clause in their contract that (essentially) states that if they are ever found to have knowingly taken performance enhancing drugs, their record will be expunged from the history of the game: they never played! They have to return any accolades they won and their records are gone: no Cooperstown, nothing. Doesn't matter if they played clean for 15 years, if they were caught cheating, it was all for nothing.

    3. (beyond extreme) They have to repay every penny that they made for their entire career.



    Let's see how many athletes deem cheating worth the chance if those are the consequences.



    But none of that's going to happen. Baseball is more popular than ever, and so long as the general public keeps packing the stadiums, nothing will change.



    Separately, it should also be mentioned that the Mitchel Report is not exhaustive -- it represents the list of players for which there is reasonable evidence of performance enhancing drugs. Sosa just gets a pass because there is not enough evidence against him.
  • Reply 7 of 29
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Denton View Post


    It's sort of hard to go back in time and change things, but if baseball (and any other sports) wants to clean things up, I like the following idea (not my idea):



    1. (obvious) Institute independent random testing.

    2. (extreme) When a player signs a contract, there is a clause in their contract that (essentially) states that if they are ever found to have knowingly taken performance enhancing drugs, their record will be expunged from the history of the game: they never played! They have to return any accolades they won and their records are gone: no Cooperstown, nothing. Doesn't matter if they played clean for 15 years, if they were caught cheating, it was all for nothing.

    3. (beyond extreme) They have to repay every penny that they made for their entire career.



    Let's see how many athletes deem cheating worth the chance if those are the consequences.



    But none of that's going to happen. Baseball is more popular than ever, and so long as the general public keeps packing the stadiums, nothing will change.



    Separately, it should also be mentioned that the Mitchel Report is not exhaustive -- it represents the list of players for which there is reasonable evidence of performance enhancing drugs. Sosa just gets a pass because there is not enough evidence against him.



    I like your #2 the extreme. It reminds of of the policy the Olympics have in place. I totally agree. Make them kowtow by giving them Marion Jones-like penalties. That ought to do it for the most part, and those who still partake and eventually get caught...bye, bye stats, bye-bye Hall of Fame.



    And that milktoast of a Commisioner, Bud Selig,...he best act as he said he would, otherwise go down in history not only as a milktoast, or as the commisioner who didn't have the cajones to let an All-Star game finish, but one who was at the helm and had steroids taint the game while he was on watch.
  • Reply 8 of 29
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post


    I stopped watching baseball years ago. If it finally dies, good riddance.



    It'll never die. Baseball has a long history of scandal and drama, but most of all forgiveness. Eventually, the public forgives and/or forgets, time goes on, Baseball, like our livelihood at times, takes a hit but moves on and still impresses.
  • Reply 9 of 29
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post


    It'll never die. Baseball has a long history of scandal and drama, but most of all forgiveness. Eventually, the public forgives and/or forgets, time goes on, Baseball, like our livelihood at times, takes a hit but moves on and still impresses.



    I suppose they still play cricket in the UK. Baseball is already backseat to football and Nascar; in one generation's time it will also be behind the other football. There's only one series worth watching in all of the sport: Yankees v. Red Sox. For the rest, the fan support isn't nearly energizing enough to makeup for the fact that the sport itself is pretty boring. NFL ratings are starting to dip, too, because of lame fan support and bloatedness of the format. This is really what Nascar and soccer have going for them: even if you find the sport boring, the fan support is fucking nuts and provides a second reason to watch or partake.



    I don't really intend to baselessly shit on baseball. I watch it occasionally, about as often as I watch NFL, and to be honest I don't care at all about the drug thing. If it weren't for the potential of collateral damage, a-la Chris Benoit, I honestly would have no problem with them doping. It's just that I find it hard to deny that it's on the way down. You just don't see a lot of kids wearing baseball merch anymore -- or for that matter US football merch. In the suburbs for sure, the most dominant, casually-worn sports attire is replica gear of Champions League teams. That's crazy, given that it's not even an American league.
  • Reply 10 of 29
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post


    I suppose they still play cricket in the UK. Baseball is already backseat to football and Nascar; in one generation's time it will also be behind the other football. .



    I'd really like to know what you are basing that on?



    In almost any category that would justify making that statement, baseball is at the top.



    So...I'm confused.



    To me, it just seems like you don't like baseball, but you don't have to go around and make shit up to support your personal beliefs and justify them.



    Baseball is America's sport. Has been and will be for the foreseeable future.
  • Reply 11 of 29
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by El Capitan View Post


    I'd really like to know what you are basing that on?



    ....



    Baseball is America's sport. Has been and will be for the foreseeable future.



    I don't "hate" baseball. I've just found there are more interesting sports to watch. Baseball is surpassed in the domestic ratings by football and Nascar, last I checked. If it didn't have an 168 game schedule (or whatever) this would be far more pronounced. The other thing about baseball is that, as a league, it's protected by US law, being the "national pastime" and all. The idea of a government-backed national pastime is ridiculous to begin with, but at the end of the day it matters almost none as competition in the sports-entertainment sector has clearly gone global as of late. This is very bad news for US leagues, which are manipulated by their administrations in order to maximize profit to the club/team at the cost of providing a less compelling product. This doesn't work in a competitive market where there's greater consumer choice. Perhaps the greatest economic paradox of our [my] generation is the fact that big-money sports leagues in the capitalist USA are centrally-planned oligarchies, and the leagues in the quasi-socialist EU are about as laissez-faire as it gets.



    Seriously: you want to know a way for baseball to garner interest again after this debacle? Relegation-promotion: they even have the league structure to make it happen. Of course, this isn't going to happen as long as they have their monopoly or any semblance of revenue, and I will continue to be indifferent about our "national pastime."
  • Reply 12 of 29
    Who cares if it's "protected by US law"? What are you even rambling about.



    And the only reason the NFL gets "higher ratings" is because there are only 16 games, one day a week during the winter when everyone is indoors at a tv. It is by no means an evaluation of the popularity or success of a league.



    The tv revenue generated by a 162 baseball game season far exceeds that of the NFL anyway so I actually have no idea what point you are trying to make.

  • Reply 13 of 29
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by El Capitan View Post


    Who cares if it's "protected by US law"?

    . . .

    I actually have no idea what point you are trying to make.



    1) I do. If there were some competition among baseball leagues, it might be more interesting.



    2) Then you're thick. The massively reiterated point is that people don't get jazzed up about baseball, unless they're in Boston or New York. You're also wrong about the economics: here's a link and interesting article. Also take note that the English Premier League, err, Barclay's Premier League, is quickly on its way to leaving the NFL way back in the dust. It's skyrocketing success is entirely due to international patronage.
  • Reply 14 of 29
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post


    1) The massively reiterated point is that people don't get jazzed up about baseball, unless they're in Boston or New York.



    Not true. The Dodgers and Angels consistently lead the league in total attendance. San Francisco has the longest waiting list for season ticket holders in baseball.



    The Northeast is not the only place where baseball flourishes.
  • Reply 15 of 29
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post


    San Francisco has the longest waiting list for season ticket holders in baseball.



    heh. Giants fans are so sedate, that going to a game is like attending a funeral. That's a case study, which is also beside the point. Match attendance is an insignificant portion of revenue.



    You can argue all you want: the money numbers don't lie. If baseball somehow became hugely popular again, I honestly would be fine with that, but this is not the case presently.
  • Reply 16 of 29
    iposteriposter Posts: 1,560member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Denton View Post


    It's sort of hard to go back in time and change things, but if baseball (and any other sports) wants to clean things up, I like the following idea (not my idea):



    1. (obvious) Institute independent random testing.

    2. (extreme) When a player signs a contract, there is a clause in their contract that (essentially) states that if they are ever found to have knowingly taken performance enhancing drugs, their record will be expunged from the history of the game: they never played! They have to return any accolades they won and their records are gone: no Cooperstown, nothing. Doesn't matter if they played clean for 15 years, if they were caught cheating, it was all for nothing.

    3. (beyond extreme) They have to repay every penny that they made for their entire career.



    Institute #1 immediately. I really like #2. It avoids the * problem.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mydo View Post


    Those cyclists should know not to dope like that. What sport are we talking about?



    I LOLed!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post


    I stopped watching baseball years ago. If it finally dies, good riddance.



    Agreed. And apparently most Americans agree with us:



    From Gallup, the poll wording was "What is your favorite sport to follow?", so I'm taking this as both TV or live:



    "Younger Americans are much more likely than older Americans to say football is their favorite sport, while older Americans mention baseball more often than younger Americans do."



    Average among all age groups:





    And the trend isn't new, etiher:







    Baseball and Basketball have such long (and dare I say boring) seasons, only the die hard fans I know bother to watch more than the playoff games, unless it's their home/favorite team.
  • Reply 17 of 29
    kishankishan Posts: 732member
    I think the only thing that the Mitchell Report does is to bring to light some new names. With a few exceptions (Roger Clemens), most of these guys are fringe-type players who probably felt they needed to juice in order to advance their careers. To me, this is the saddest thing about the situation; these guys felt they had no choice but to juice in order to compete.



    What about in other sports? American football is one of the fastest and most violent games that is played. Certainly some of the men who play are naturally built like Greek or Roman Gods, but how many more of them are likely using performance enhancing drugs? Are we more willing to forgive them because of the violence of their game? Do we come down hard on baseball players because we all feel that "Hey! Anyone can play baseball, why should they juice?"



    PS: as far TV ratings go, I can only say that American Football is a sport that came to maturity along side of broadcast television. One could argue that it is a sport that is at least partially designed around television. No wonder it is more fun to watch!
  • Reply 18 of 29
    YAwn...........
  • Reply 19 of 29
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post


    heh. Giants fans are so sedate, that going to a game is like attending a funeral. That's a case study, which is also beside the point. Match attendance is an insignificant portion of revenue.



    You can argue all you want: the money numbers don't lie. If baseball somehow became hugely popular again, I honestly would be fine with that, but this is not the case presently.



    Attendance is an insignificant portion of revenue? That's just a ridiculous statement. Season ticket and single game ticket sales for an 81 game season is a huge part of revenue. Albeit, television is probably the most important, but planting butts in the seats is a huge priority for major league teams. If it were insignificant, the Nationals would be playing in Montreal, the Giants would be playing in St. Petersburg, and nearly every major league team would be playing in a 30 year old facility.



    How is baseball not popular again? This is the fourth consecutive year baseball has broken it's all-time attendance record. If it weren't popular, people wouldn't be going to the games.



    http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/news/...=.jsp&c_id=mlb



    I'm not going to get on you for your Giants fans comment. All I can say is that I guarantee you've never been to a game since AT&T was built. And if you did, it was on a Sunday afternoon game or it was after August 7th, 2007.



    Show me your case study.
  • Reply 20 of 29
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post


    How is baseball not popular again? This is the fourth consecutive year baseball has broken it's all-time attendance record. If it weren't popular, people wouldn't be going to the games.



    This is an asinine comment and you know it. If 33,000 home fans show up at each game, that is a small portion of the million-plus households that each sport market is targeting. If you determine the average ticket price, you can also figure the amount of revenue garnered by attendance. Perhaps it is very important for the MLB to get butts in seats, because they sure aren't winning on the television.



    Lastly: why are you refuting my personal case study that you explicitly agree with one sentence prior? AT&T park (or whatever they call it now) should be renamed "The Library." At least, then, it would have an identity. To be fair, US sports fans are generally pretty sedate, but there are a few exceptions.
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