If I could make $15 an hour waiting tables I'd be set for the next five years. I'd spend 6 months in Hawaii, then 6 seeing the mountains in Utah, then 6 seeing the historic sites in Charleston, SC. I can't do that because skilled jobs have a large learning curve whereas all those hassles don't apply to jumping into a waiting job. This is just another reason that unskilled jobs pay less.
You can definitely make $15 as a server, it just has to be the right place. I pulled down that much as a waiter, and that was 7-10 years ago.
Waiting tables was a great job summers during college. I made good money, worked with a lot of good looking women, and learned a TON about dealing with irrationally unhappy people.
Shawn recommends 20% as a standard tip because, well, once you've worked in that industry you become sympathetic, and that's just what you do (I know that's what I do). I don't begrudge anyone if they want to have 15% as their standard.
You can definitely make $15 as a server, it just has to be the right place. I pulled down that much as a waiter, and that was 7-10 years ago.
Y'know, it does depend on the place. I find myself wanting to tip a much higher percent at cheap restaurants and a lower percent at expensive ones. If I get great service on a $10 entree with an included salad one day and mediocre service on a $30 entree with a $10 salad, why should I give the server at the second place 4X the tip?
I know the customer to server ratio might be different--but it is not 4X different...
PS Shawn, You will be happy to know that I pick the rice up off the floor after my son does his thing. I figure at the very least, it motivates me to pay attention to what he it doing.
Y'know, it does depend on the place. I find myself wanting to tip a much higher percent at cheap restaurants and a lower percent at expensive ones. If I get great service on a $10 entree with an included salad one day and mediocre service on a $30 entree with a $10 salad, why should I give the server at the second place 4X the tip?
I know the customer to server ratio might be different--but it is not 4X different...
I agree. I went to a lebanese restaurant with a group of about 12 people recently. Since not many people knew much about lebanese food, we just asked them to bring a selection of dishes to the table. This they did, and we had a lovely meal, each of us trying a bit of everything. Afterwards, they asked if we wanted dessert, and again brought a selection. There was more food than we could eat.
Including drinks, the price came to £9.50 each... including a 10% tip! We thought we'd worked it out wrong first. So everyone put in £10 just because it was easier and they deserved it for serving us a meal that cheaply.
For the record, 10% tip is normal in Britain for decent service. I would tip less than that, or nothing, if the service was bad, or a little more if it was exceptional. A tip should be a reward for good service, not something to be expected. Of course, it's different here in that a waiter cannot be paid less than minimum wage, even when not counting tips.
As a student, many of the places I frequent don't take tips. Anywhere where you pay before your food is delivered isn't an appropriate place to tip. It's almost a shame, as one restaurant on campus is absolutely brilliant, both in service and in food. The staff recognise me and my friends, and ask after us, and will happily accommodate requests for alterations in the dishes. But you can't tip in a situation like that: the till displays your price and you hand over your card.
If you can help it, sit where the hosts seat you. Servers usually have "sections" of assigned tables that are filled in a particular order. If you want to sit elsewhere, most restaurants will accommodate you, but understand you will be screwing up the order. Either another server will have to take your table out of turn, or someone else will take that server's table, leaving him or her with one less table and forcing him or her to either take tables outside their section or temporarily swap tables with the other server. That is not always possible, so at best you are screwing things up and at worst taking away earnings from another server. Instead, first ask if your server has another table in his or her section that you can sit at.
.
I buy all but this. If there is a nice table near the window available I don't want to sit in the corner by the men?s room because that was the next in line.
Sorry to be harsh in this post, but the real world is about adapting to whatever complexities are thrown at you. The list above really gets things backwards. The seller adjusts and accommodates to what the buyer wants. It doesn't work the other way around.
I do not suggest a restaurant should not accommodate customers.
I'm merely pointing out that customer expectations might be unreasonable if they don't take into account their own actions. I pointed out several examples where what customers do might affect the level and efficiency of service, ***regardless*** of the best efforts of the staff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindler
Two items on the list that make clear sense. One is that the waiter should be told beforehand how they should add up the check for groups. That way they don't have to do double work and make a new check. That's reasonable since there's no way around it. The second is that knowing a place is going to close at a certain time is easy enough and shows basic respect for the people who want to go home.
Just in general, I think you're missing a lot if you only see my points about consideration towards the staff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindler
But let's look at the other arguments. Why should the party have to seat themselves according to what is easier for the staff? That is absurd. If I'm a great programmer I know that 20% of projects will turn out more pain in the ass than the others. I don't get to pick the easy ones and let the other ones go. I have to adjust my skills to do the easy ones fast and do the hard ones carefully.
I do not think customers *must* seat themselves according to what's easier for the staff.
Restaurants will accommodate your seating choices. But let me explain something about seating that clearly customers don't understand. If you *do* deviate from how restaurants seat you, it may very well affect your service *regardless* of the best efforts of your server. If it's a busy night and the server had to end up taking a table far away from his or her section, you might wait longer for service throughout the night. There's often nothing the restaurant can do about this if no other server can take the table. So adjust your expectations accordingly.
Tipping is all good, -but being from a part of the world where tips are not obligatory all your discussions concerning tipping "standards" is really weird.
To me a tip is something given as a "tip" for good service.
Yes I did work in the service industry, not as a waiter, but still in a place where tips were given to show appreciation.
I suppose a waiters standard pay, - not incl. tips, in the U.S. is really bad?
People are told the wait time for seating, but not for food service. No restaurant should seat a person, take their drink order, deliver the drinks and then express astonishment if food is refused or the drinks demanded as comped when leaving because meals fails to arrive within 30 minutes of being ordered. I enjoyed the ambiance for the 30 minute wait for a seat. If the wait for food is exceptional, state so at the beginning and let me choose.
And the corollary to that is to not bring out the food too quickly either. The Olive Garden once brought out my dinner 8 minutes after I ordered. Going to a chain restaurant, you're going to expect they emphasize efficient cooking and high turnover rates, but that's just too quick.
With longer cooking times, anywhere from 20-40 minutes is not out of the ordinary. Generally restaurants want to get the food out between 20 and 30 minutes. Any longer and you're killing your turnover rate, so trust me, long food waits aren't good for the restaurant either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman
Temperature/Environment
If you cannot keep your restaurant at a reasonable temperature or refuse to do so as a cost saving measure, be prepared to eat any and all associated costs once the parties inside have acclimated and realized that it isn't just them but your refusal to move your thermostat.
Yes, if it's too cold then that's not going to make many happy customers. But most restaurants besides the small independent ones are not authorized to fiddle with the thermostat. It's usually set by policy either by a corporate office or otherwise. So while some customers might leave or be uncomfortable during their stay, most times there's nothing the staff or managers can do about it.
I do not suggest a restaurant should not accommodate customers.
I'm merely pointing out that customer expectations might be unreasonable if they don't take into account their own actions. .
Well from that perspective I agree with what you are saying except for the 20% tip. But, just for the sake of argument, your initial post seemed to written from the point of view of what customers should be *expected* to do. that's why people are getting on you.
It wasn't called "Tips to get more efficient service". It was about "etiquette" which is the requirements of acting properly, like if you go to Japan you must follow etiquette or will look foolish.
One line said "Check-splitting is an issue with larger groups. If multiple people will pay, be sure to tell your server before ordering. Also, if you're going to split the check, please sit in some sort of arrangement that your server can follow." These seem more like commands. It didn't say "IF you tell your server beforehand then you won't waste ten minutes later."
I realize you probably just copied this text from somewhere else (nothing wrong with that) but it seems more like rules to follow from the tone then time saving tips for the consumer.
I'm not against doing a little thing to make the worker's job 10 times easier. I'm just pointing out the hard situations are as much a part of the job as the easy ones.
The right hand wants to two-finger type, but the left hand uses all 5 fingers. I don't know why this is, but I'm sure you could tell me where I'm going wrong. It's probably just a discipline thing. Keep the right hand in the proper position on the keys and that'll solve my problems. It'll be a little slower at first, but soon things will speed up nicely once I adjust to typing correctly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel
I'm kind of saying "what's the point" to this entire thread.
All joking aside, this thread is *primarily* about how customer actions in a restaurant affect the level and efficiency of service--regardless of the best efforts of the staff. It's also dabbles in what I (and others in response) feel is the proper tipping standard. And lastly it's an attempt to get people to think about just generally having a little empathy and patience for the restaurant staff in the context of what we all know about the traditional customer-staff relationship. A little more organization would have helped, but I think I did a good job of clearing things up in my subsequent posts. Give 'em a read perhaps!
Comments
If I could make $15 an hour waiting tables I'd be set for the next five years. I'd spend 6 months in Hawaii, then 6 seeing the mountains in Utah, then 6 seeing the historic sites in Charleston, SC. I can't do that because skilled jobs have a large learning curve whereas all those hassles don't apply to jumping into a waiting job. This is just another reason that unskilled jobs pay less.
You can definitely make $15 as a server, it just has to be the right place. I pulled down that much as a waiter, and that was 7-10 years ago.
Waiting tables was a great job summers during college. I made good money, worked with a lot of good looking women, and learned a TON about dealing with irrationally unhappy people.
Shawn recommends 20% as a standard tip because, well, once you've worked in that industry you become sympathetic, and that's just what you do (I know that's what I do). I don't begrudge anyone if they want to have 15% as their standard.
You can definitely make $15 as a server, it just has to be the right place. I pulled down that much as a waiter, and that was 7-10 years ago.
Y'know, it does depend on the place. I find myself wanting to tip a much higher percent at cheap restaurants and a lower percent at expensive ones. If I get great service on a $10 entree with an included salad one day and mediocre service on a $30 entree with a $10 salad, why should I give the server at the second place 4X the tip?
I know the customer to server ratio might be different--but it is not 4X different...
PS Shawn, You will be happy to know that I pick the rice up off the floor after my son does his thing. I figure at the very least, it motivates me to pay attention to what he it doing.
Y'know, it does depend on the place. I find myself wanting to tip a much higher percent at cheap restaurants and a lower percent at expensive ones. If I get great service on a $10 entree with an included salad one day and mediocre service on a $30 entree with a $10 salad, why should I give the server at the second place 4X the tip?
I know the customer to server ratio might be different--but it is not 4X different...
I agree. I went to a lebanese restaurant with a group of about 12 people recently. Since not many people knew much about lebanese food, we just asked them to bring a selection of dishes to the table. This they did, and we had a lovely meal, each of us trying a bit of everything. Afterwards, they asked if we wanted dessert, and again brought a selection. There was more food than we could eat.
Including drinks, the price came to £9.50 each... including a 10% tip! We thought we'd worked it out wrong first. So everyone put in £10 just because it was easier and they deserved it for serving us a meal that cheaply.
For the record, 10% tip is normal in Britain for decent service. I would tip less than that, or nothing, if the service was bad, or a little more if it was exceptional. A tip should be a reward for good service, not something to be expected. Of course, it's different here in that a waiter cannot be paid less than minimum wage, even when not counting tips.
As a student, many of the places I frequent don't take tips. Anywhere where you pay before your food is delivered isn't an appropriate place to tip. It's almost a shame, as one restaurant on campus is absolutely brilliant, both in service and in food. The staff recognise me and my friends, and ask after us, and will happily accommodate requests for alterations in the dishes. But you can't tip in a situation like that: the till displays your price and you hand over your card.
Yep, I'm with Mr. Pink on this one.
Why is the service not included in the bill, and tips left to reward exceptional performance or to compensate for extra trouble caused?
Poor little waiter.
I'd tip ya 20%...
Yep, I'm with Mr. Pink on this one.
Well, I'm with Joe on it.
A few things you should know or do:
Seating
If you can help it, sit where the hosts seat you. Servers usually have "sections" of assigned tables that are filled in a particular order. If you want to sit elsewhere, most restaurants will accommodate you, but understand you will be screwing up the order. Either another server will have to take your table out of turn, or someone else will take that server's table, leaving him or her with one less table and forcing him or her to either take tables outside their section or temporarily swap tables with the other server. That is not always possible, so at best you are screwing things up and at worst taking away earnings from another server. Instead, first ask if your server has another table in his or her section that you can sit at.
.
I buy all but this. If there is a nice table near the window available I don't want to sit in the corner by the men?s room because that was the next in line.
Sorry to be harsh in this post, but the real world is about adapting to whatever complexities are thrown at you. The list above really gets things backwards. The seller adjusts and accommodates to what the buyer wants. It doesn't work the other way around.
I do not suggest a restaurant should not accommodate customers.
I'm merely pointing out that customer expectations might be unreasonable if they don't take into account their own actions. I pointed out several examples where what customers do might affect the level and efficiency of service, ***regardless*** of the best efforts of the staff.
Two items on the list that make clear sense. One is that the waiter should be told beforehand how they should add up the check for groups. That way they don't have to do double work and make a new check. That's reasonable since there's no way around it. The second is that knowing a place is going to close at a certain time is easy enough and shows basic respect for the people who want to go home.
Just in general, I think you're missing a lot if you only see my points about consideration towards the staff.
But let's look at the other arguments. Why should the party have to seat themselves according to what is easier for the staff? That is absurd. If I'm a great programmer I know that 20% of projects will turn out more pain in the ass than the others. I don't get to pick the easy ones and let the other ones go. I have to adjust my skills to do the easy ones fast and do the hard ones carefully.
I do not think customers *must* seat themselves according to what's easier for the staff.
Restaurants will accommodate your seating choices. But let me explain something about seating that clearly customers don't understand. If you *do* deviate from how restaurants seat you, it may very well affect your service *regardless* of the best efforts of your server. If it's a busy night and the server had to end up taking a table far away from his or her section, you might wait longer for service throughout the night. There's often nothing the restaurant can do about this if no other server can take the table. So adjust your expectations accordingly.
To me a tip is something given as a "tip" for good service.
Yes I did work in the service industry, not as a waiter, but still in a place where tips were given to show appreciation.
I suppose a waiters standard pay, - not incl. tips, in the U.S. is really bad?
/tinker
Wait Times
People are told the wait time for seating, but not for food service. No restaurant should seat a person, take their drink order, deliver the drinks and then express astonishment if food is refused or the drinks demanded as comped when leaving because meals fails to arrive within 30 minutes of being ordered. I enjoyed the ambiance for the 30 minute wait for a seat. If the wait for food is exceptional, state so at the beginning and let me choose.
And the corollary to that is to not bring out the food too quickly either. The Olive Garden once brought out my dinner 8 minutes after I ordered. Going to a chain restaurant, you're going to expect they emphasize efficient cooking and high turnover rates, but that's just too quick.
With longer cooking times, anywhere from 20-40 minutes is not out of the ordinary. Generally restaurants want to get the food out between 20 and 30 minutes. Any longer and you're killing your turnover rate, so trust me, long food waits aren't good for the restaurant either.
Temperature/Environment
If you cannot keep your restaurant at a reasonable temperature or refuse to do so as a cost saving measure, be prepared to eat any and all associated costs once the parties inside have acclimated and realized that it isn't just them but your refusal to move your thermostat.
Yes, if it's too cold then that's not going to make many happy customers. But most restaurants besides the small independent ones are not authorized to fiddle with the thermostat. It's usually set by policy either by a corporate office or otherwise. So while some customers might leave or be uncomfortable during their stay, most times there's nothing the staff or managers can do about it.
I suppose a waiters standard pay, - not incl. tips, in the U.S. is really bad?
$15,310 mean yearly wage for full-time servers (including tips).
I do not suggest a restaurant should not accommodate customers.
I'm merely pointing out that customer expectations might be unreasonable if they don't take into account their own actions. .
Well from that perspective I agree with what you are saying except for the 20% tip. But, just for the sake of argument, your initial post seemed to written from the point of view of what customers should be *expected* to do. that's why people are getting on you.
It wasn't called "Tips to get more efficient service". It was about "etiquette" which is the requirements of acting properly, like if you go to Japan you must follow etiquette or will look foolish.
One line said "Check-splitting is an issue with larger groups. If multiple people will pay, be sure to tell your server before ordering. Also, if you're going to split the check, please sit in some sort of arrangement that your server can follow." These seem more like commands. It didn't say "IF you tell your server beforehand then you won't waste ten minutes later."
I realize you probably just copied this text from somewhere else (nothing wrong with that) but it seems more like rules to follow from the tone then time saving tips for the consumer.
I'm not against doing a little thing to make the worker's job 10 times easier. I'm just pointing out the hard situations are as much a part of the job as the easy ones.
$15,310 mean yearly wage for full-time servers (including tips).
That data is from 2001.
That data is from 2001.
My bad.
$17,190 in 2006.
My bad.
$17,190 in 2006.
A lot of wait staff are part-time workers. Yes, food services is a low-paying industry. What's the point?
I could have sworn this was a satire piece when I read it.
+1 FP!
A lot of wait staff are part-time workers. Yes, food services is a low-paying industry. What's the point?
Those statistics are for full-time staff.
Tinker asked.
Follow along please.
Those statistics are for full-time staff.
Tinker asked.
I'm kind of saying "what's the point" to this entire thread. Are you practicing typing or something?
Are you practicing typing or something?
Yes, I think you've nailed it.
The right hand wants to two-finger type, but the left hand uses all 5 fingers. I don't know why this is, but I'm sure you could tell me where I'm going wrong. It's probably just a discipline thing. Keep the right hand in the proper position on the keys and that'll solve my problems. It'll be a little slower at first, but soon things will speed up nicely once I adjust to typing correctly.
I'm kind of saying "what's the point" to this entire thread.
All joking aside, this thread is *primarily* about how customer actions in a restaurant affect the level and efficiency of service--regardless of the best efforts of the staff. It's also dabbles in what I (and others in response) feel is the proper tipping standard. And lastly it's an attempt to get people to think about just generally having a little empathy and patience for the restaurant staff in the context of what we all know about the traditional customer-staff relationship. A little more organization would have helped, but I think I did a good job of clearing things up in my subsequent posts. Give 'em a read perhaps!
And yes I'm still in school. Just on break.