Warner picks Amazon, not Apple for DRM-free debut; more

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Warner Music Group dealt Apple Inc. a symbolic blow on Thursday by announcing it would sell its first unprotected music through Amazon MP3 instead of iTunes. However, one financial group is more positive and expects Apple stock at $600 in 18 months.



Warner begins selling DRM-free music through Amazon



In a potentially significant move, Warner Music Group today said it has licensed its catalog to Amazon for use with its Amazon MP3 music store.



The deal is not fully explained by the music label but will include "album bundles" with tracks unavailable anywhere else, according to the two companies. Like all Amazon MP3 tracks, the songs go without digital rights management and can be copied an unlimited number of times and played back on nearly any device, including iPods.



Securing the Warner deal represents the latest in a series of victories for Amazon against Apple. Although launching only in September of this year, Amazon's store has already licensed MP3 music from Universal and forced Apple to lower iTunes Plus pricing to remain competitive. The iPod maker, in turn, has seen both Warner and Universal potentially opt out of long-term contracts for iTunes on a permanent basis. With today's announcement, both have also excluded Apple from their unprotected music offerings.



The agreement to offer MP3s also represents a dramatic shift in policy for Warner. The label's chief Edgar Bronfman began the year by lashing out at Steve Jobs for even suggesting that labels should drop copy protection, accusing the Apple executive of abandoning logic. Since then, three of the four major labels -- EMI, Universal, and Bronfman's own imprint -- have all offered unprotected songs to varying degrees. Only Sony BMG has so far maintained a requirement for copy protection on all its direct downloads.



Report: iPhone to boost Apple stock to $600



While Apple shares have only just flirted with the $200 mark this week, the company is poised to as much as triple that amount in 18 months, says Daedalus Capital chief investment officer Stephen Coleman in an update on his company's outlook.



The financial expert bases this largely on predicted success for the iPhone, which he believes will not only benefit Apple through sales of the phone itself but through revenue-sharing deals. In a more aggressive estimate than some analysts, Coleman estimates as much as 30 percent of subscription revenues for carriers are sent directly to the Cupertino firm.



"There's so much growth to look forward to," he says.



Mossberg credits Dell all-in-one as true iMac rival



Dell's new XPS One desktop is the only Windows PC that can 'match or exceed' the iMac in some areas, according to a new review by the Wall Street Journal's Walt Mossberg.



The technology columnist justifies the response by noting that the Dell all-in-one maintains a clever industrial design while incorporating features absent from the iMac, such as a memory card reader, a TV tuner, and side-mounted USB ports.



The iMac still wins through software, Mossberg adds: Mac OS X is both faster and more valuable than Vista, and is not burdened by trial versions or ad-based software, nicknamed "craplets" by the journalist. And in a reversal of stereotypes, Apple's systems are also less expensive while offering better overall performance and more screen options. Nonetheless, the system may prove viable for Windows users, he writes.



"If you want a stylish Windows Vista machine that runs well and won?t cost a fortune, the XPS One fits the bill, despite its unlikely heritage," Mossberg says.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 64
    MacProMacPro Posts: 17,868member
    600!!!! wow
  • Reply 2 of 64
    I think the analyst is smoking something very funky to believe that the stock will be $600 in 18 months.
  • Reply 3 of 64
    crebcreb Posts: 276member
    There are of options players banking on the $200 plus mark begin 1/1/2008 so the hype will flow to get, and try to keep Apple's stock at or above the $200 mark which will yield windfalls for these players. The $600 mark is irresponsible on Coleman's part with no substantiation.
  • Reply 4 of 64
    nceencee Posts: 836member
    No doubt baising this on the China market … which is 10 plus times that of the US and most all other markets combined.



    Oh, let's not forget what they will be announcing at MacExpo, and the rest of the year.



    $600.00 seems steep, but not that far off.



    Oh, Steve, just buy these record companies out, and do what you want with the music!



    Anyone heard anything lately on the Beatles music coming to itunes?



    Skip
  • Reply 5 of 64
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post


    I think the analyst is smoking something very funky to believe that the stock will be $600 in 18 months.



    It's gone up 3x in the past 12 months, 80x in the past 10 years, this quarter appears to be beating estimates (again) and the future outlook for Apple looks very strong. $600 in 18 months seems low to me.
  • Reply 6 of 64
    MacProMacPro Posts: 17,868member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    It's gone up 3x in the past 12 months, 80x in the past 10 years, this quarter appears to be beating estimates (again) and the future outlook for Apple looks very strong. $600 in 18 months seems low to me.



    On knees praying (and I am an atheist)
  • Reply 7 of 64
    Not too long before Apple's market valuation is greater than Microsoft.



    Oh, but.... isn't Apple going bankrupt???
  • Reply 8 of 64
    "...Daedalus Capital chief investment officer Stephen Coleman..." must be a real idiot, or whomever he's advising are idiots. Six-hundred? He's off his nut. Of course, what timeframe is this guy looking at? Could hit $600 in 3 or 4 years, possibly.
  • Reply 9 of 64
    Apple has been going bankrupt since 1995. When will all these people who have been foolish enough to prop the stock up like this these past several years wise up and buy Microsoft?



    Microsoft is the future! Microsoft is a growth stock! Why has it languished?

    They are the innovator! Apple is the copycat!



    Please, oh wise ones of Wall Street, shine your light on MSFT and darken AAPL.

    We need this now more than ever.



    [Note: the following ridiculous comment was made by someone long on MSFT.]
  • Reply 10 of 64
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    No doubt baising this on the China market … which is 10 plus times that of the US and most all other markets combined.



    Only in people not in buying power. China's GDP is nearly a seventh of the US. China's GDP is also behind the EU, Japan, and Germany. The average income in China is $2,034 far less than in most every other industrial country.
  • Reply 11 of 64
    Walt Mossberg is a horrible source and doesn't know what he's doing. He compared the $1200 iMac to the $1500 Dell and said after upgrading the iMac to match the dell it was a $100 difference.



    That is WRONG. He is not comparing two equally spec'd machines at all. He was quick to add thing to the iMac to match the dell's specs, but failed to match the dell to the iMac's specs!



    20" iMac: Graphics - ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT with 128MB memory

    20" Dell One: Graphics - Integrated GPU.



    There is a huge difference between an integrated gpu and a seperate gpu. You literally can't play recent (last 3 years) games on even the best integrated gpus without major problems. Plus, I called Dell and they wouldn't even tell me what model the integrated gpu was so i could find stats on it. But the rep assured me "It won't run World of Warcraft"



    Here's a far more telling comparison (the only one that has the internals close too):



    Dell One | iMac

    Processor: Core 2 at 2.33 ghz 1333mhz fsb 4mb l2 cache (E6550) VS Core 2 at 2.4 ghz 800mhz fsb 4mb l2 cache (T7700)

    Graphics Card: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2400 Video Card VS ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO 256MB

    Memory: both 2 GB DDR2 RAM at 667 mhz

    Hard Disk: 320 GB 7200 RPM on both

    Disk Drive: 8x DVD/CD burners on both

    TV Tuner: the Dell has one, iMac does not.

    Media Center: both have media center software and include remotes

    Media/Extra Ports: 8-in-1 media reader and firewire 400 port VS firewire 400 and 800 ports



    Price: $1649 VS $1899



    I just presented all that to two Dell sales reps and their only retort was "I assure you when you buy a Dell you are getting a quality system" :P
  • Reply 12 of 64
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quine View Post


    Walt Mossberg is a horrible source and doesn't know what he's doing. He compared the $1200 iMac to the $1500 Dell and said after upgrading the iMac to match the dell it was a $100 difference.



    That is WRONG. He is not comparing two equally spec'd machines at all. He was quick to add thing to the iMac to match the dell's specs, but failed to match the dell to the iMac's specs!



    20" iMac: Graphics - ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT with 128MB memory

    20" Dell One: Graphics - Integrated GPU.



    There is a huge difference between an integrated gpu and a seperate gpu. You literally can't play recent (last 3 years) games on even the best integrated gpus without major problems. Plus, I called Dell and they wouldn't even tell me what model the integrated gpu was so i could find stats on it. But the rep assured me "It won't run World of Warcraft"



    Here's a far more telling comparison (the only one that has the internals close too):



    Dell One | iMac

    Processor: Core 2 at 2.33 ghz 1333mhz fsb 4mb l2 cache (E6550) VS Core 2 at 2.4 ghz 800mhz fsb 4mb l2 cache (T7700)

    Graphics Card: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2400 Video Card VS ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO 256MB

    Memory: both 2 GB DDR2 RAM at 667 mhz

    Hard Disk: 320 GB 7200 RPM on both

    Disk Drive: 8x DVD/CD burners on both

    TV Tuner: the Dell has one, iMac does not.

    Media Center: both have media center software and include remotes

    Media/Extra Ports: 8-in-1 media reader and firewire 400 port VS firewire 400 and 800 ports



    Price: $1649 VS $1899



    I just presented all that to two Dell sales reps and their only retort was "I assure you when you buy a Dell you are getting a quality system" :P



    Why would you present that to the Dell reps? Were you serious about buying or just wanting to point out to some people trying to scrap out a living in a crappy job that your mac is better than their Dell?
  • Reply 13 of 64
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Why would you present that to the Dell reps? Were you serious about buying or just wanting to point out to some people trying to scrap out a living in a crappy job that your mac is better than their Dell?



    Oh, one of my friends actually wanted to buy a new comp, and my other friend made a bet to me that I couldn't configure an iMac to be better than a Dell One within the proper price range, so I did. Then he denied it and said to call up sales reps and they'd know something that was better about the Dell, so I did, and they literally had nothing to say.



    My purchasing friend was leaning toward an iMac already but wanted to be sure, and after I showed my other friend those facts and talked to the reps, my friend (the one who was buying) went to Apple's site and went ahead and bought his iMac.



    So, that's why I called the reps, not to be a jerk I actually thanked the second rep for doing her best and had her record a good word from me for her boss because she really tried hard to come up with good reasons.



    PS: Sorry for the myriad pronoun problems in that!
  • Reply 14 of 64
    wilcowilco Posts: 985member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quine View Post


    Walt Mossberg is a horrible source and doesn't know what he's doing. He compared the $1200 iMac to the $1500 Dell and said after upgrading the iMac to match the dell it was a $100 difference.



    That is WRONG. He is not comparing two equally spec'd machines at all. He was quick to add thing to the iMac to match the dell's specs, but failed to match the dell to the iMac's specs!



    20" iMac: Graphics - ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT with 128MB memory

    20" Dell One: Graphics - Integrated GPU.



    There is a huge difference between an integrated gpu and a seperate gpu. You literally can't play recent (last 3 years) games on even the best integrated gpus without major problems. Plus, I called Dell and they wouldn't even tell me what model the integrated gpu was so i could find stats on it. But the rep assured me "It won't run World of Warcraft"



    Here's a far more telling comparison (the only one that has the internals close too):



    Dell One | iMac

    Processor: Core 2 at 2.33 ghz 1333mhz fsb 4mb l2 cache (E6550) VS Core 2 at 2.4 ghz 800mhz fsb 4mb l2 cache (T7700)

    Graphics Card: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2400 Video Card VS ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO 256MB

    Memory: both 2 GB DDR2 RAM at 667 mhz

    Hard Disk: 320 GB 7200 RPM on both

    Disk Drive: 8x DVD/CD burners on both

    TV Tuner: the Dell has one, iMac does not.

    Media Center: both have media center software and include remotes

    Media/Extra Ports: 8-in-1 media reader and firewire 400 port VS firewire 400 and 800 ports



    Price: $1649 VS $1899



    I just presented all that to two Dell sales reps and their only retort was "I assure you when you buy a Dell you are getting a quality system" :P



    If I was that Dell rep., my retort would have been, "get a life, nerd".



  • Reply 15 of 64
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post


    I think the analyst is smoking something very funky to believe that the stock will be $600 in 18 months.



    Not necessarily, I think many people fail to understand the significance of the iPhone and it's forthcoming big brother(s). Greater mac sales. Plus I'm 100% convinced Apple will make a success of movie downloads this year also.
  • Reply 16 of 64
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quine View Post


    Walt Mossberg is a horrible source and doesn't know what he's doing. He compared the $1200 iMac to the $1500 Dell and said after upgrading the iMac to match the dell it was a $100 difference.



    That is WRONG. He is not comparing two equally spec'd machines at all. He was quick to add thing to the iMac to match the dell's specs, but failed to match the dell to the iMac's specs!



    20" iMac: Graphics - ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT with 128MB memory

    20" Dell One: Graphics - Integrated GPU.



    There is a huge difference between an integrated gpu and a seperate gpu. You literally can't play recent (last 3 years) games on even the best integrated gpus without major problems. Plus, I called Dell and they wouldn't even tell me what model the integrated gpu was so i could find stats on it. But the rep assured me "It won't run World of Warcraft"



    Here's a far more telling comparison (the only one that has the internals close too):



    Dell One | iMac

    Processor: Core 2 at 2.33 ghz 1333mhz fsb 4mb l2 cache (E6550) VS Core 2 at 2.4 ghz 800mhz fsb 4mb l2 cache (T7700)

    Graphics Card: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2400 Video Card VS ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO 256MB

    Memory: both 2 GB DDR2 RAM at 667 mhz

    Hard Disk: 320 GB 7200 RPM on both

    Disk Drive: 8x DVD/CD burners on both

    TV Tuner: the Dell has one, iMac does not.

    Media Center: both have media center software and include remotes

    Media/Extra Ports: 8-in-1 media reader and firewire 400 port VS firewire 400 and 800 ports



    Price: $1649 VS $1899



    I just presented all that to two Dell sales reps and their only retort was "I assure you when you buy a Dell you are getting a quality system" :P



    You didn't actually READ what Mossberg said, did you?



    He said that while the Dell is the best competitor to the iMac he's seen, and is a big departure for Dell, in the end, the iMac is a better machine.



    He also said that the iMac is cheaper, even after you add the wireless keyboard and mouse. He also said that Dell doesn't offer anything other than the 20" models. He also said that Apple's 24" model is better, AND cheaper than Dell's top 20" model. He also said that Dell uses the integrated graphics chip, which isn't as good as the GPU Apple offers. He also said that OS X is a much better OS than Vista, which is the only choice on the Dell. And not least, he also said that Apple's software bundle is much better than the one that Dell offers.



    But, you didn't actually READ any of that, did you?
  • Reply 17 of 64
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Why would you present that to the Dell reps? Were you serious about buying or just wanting to point out to some people trying to scrap out a living in a crappy job that your mac is better than their Dell?



    He didn't speak to any Dell reps. He just wrote that for this thread.
  • Reply 18 of 64
    Not sure what the big stink is over the $600 price tag-- it's optimistic but not completely out of line. My expectation is $400 in 12 months, and if Apple can keep delivering on new products between now and then, another year at 100% annualized growth isn't out of line.



    Mac profits are set to double or better this quarter, and iPod/iPhones should see a huge jump, if the number of iPhones I keep seeing around is any indicator.



    Over the last 5 years, EPS growth is 117%... this basically assumes "more of the same, but maybe a little slower."
  • Reply 19 of 64
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    He didn't speak to any Dell reps. He just wrote that for this thread.



    Wow, you guys are rough on newbies...... trial by fire, Quine...



    Oh, btw, welcome!
  • Reply 20 of 64
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,323member
    While $600 does seem to be a bit much for 18 months, I bought my stock mid 2004 for $16.93 a share, pre-split, so it's possible.



    If Apple gains momentum, anything is possible, including absurd P/E's, ala Google.



    We have to see what transpires this quarter, now, oh so close to an end.



    If Apple can really beat their numbers, and get to around $10 billion, with $1.4 billion in profit, it could indicate that 2008 will be a stronger year than the most positive expectations I've yet seen.



    That could give Apple a possible $35+ billion year, with $5 billion in profits, $20 billion in the bank, and no long term debt.



    If that happens, next holiday season could see Apple with $13 billion in sales, possibly even higher.



    Also according to a long NYTimes article about Apple's stores, they did 43% more business in 2007 than in 2006. With at least 40 more stores opening in 2008, that will add even more. And the sales at the non

    US stores are contributing more percentage to those sales every quarter, and Apple is opening more of those in 2008 than ever before, another reason to be expectant.



    So $600 might not be so pie in the sky after all.
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