Report claims "major" Apple TV update in the pipeline

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  • Reply 61 of 154
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    DVDs are still fine for me. If I'm anything like the majority of Americans, we're waiting for the price of HDTVs (all varieties) to drop further before buying. Blu-Ray has little interest for me now, they are simply too expensive (the players and the media).



    Having said that, I think it's coming to do or die time for AppleTV. They need to vastly improve it, or drop it.



    I surely wouldn't say majority. I think the last survey was at about ~52% have HDTVs
  • Reply 62 of 154
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post


    To All who replied...



    I and nobody in my area gets digital OTA signals... they simply do not make it to here... mountain maybe? I dunno but all I do know is without a 200' tower I simply will not get any signal (acording to CEDA antenna-website..



    Dave



    Where do you live? how many miles outside metro area?
  • Reply 63 of 154
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by winterspan View Post


    although easily technically feasible (bitrate of DVDs is like 8-10mbps) WHY IN THE WORLD would someone WANT to do that? 99.9% of people who watch movies own a DVD player already connected to their TV. Why would they run to their mac to put the dvd in the drive??? That makes absolutely no logical sense.



    Thank you winterspan. I thought I was the only one who saw that little logistical oversight.



    I would, however, like the aTV much more if it could supplant the DVD player for me since it's a much tighter package and I could enjoy the other benefits it offers.
  • Reply 64 of 154
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post


    Okay so what do I do with my 500+ dvd collection? unplug replug every time I wanna use ATV and no a switch box will not work I have a wife and inlaws etc that will always find a way to screw them up and not be able to watch anything till I get home to 'fix' things.



    D



    why on earth would you have to "unplug/replug"? Your tv has one input? Plus look the other guy said, maybe Apple would do a passthrough feed
  • Reply 65 of 154
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    Also there are a lot of other HDMI switch boxes available.



    You don't have a mother-inlaw, mother, wife operating your TV do you... Switch boxes and such have never had the WAF seal of usability...



    WAF being Wife approval factor



    Dave
  • Reply 66 of 154
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by winterspan View Post


    why on earth would you have to "unplug/replug"? Your tv has one input? Plus look the other guy said, maybe Apple would do a passthrough feed



    Please read my posts...





    3 Inputs.. (hdmi inputs)



    1 - Cable box

    2 - DVD

    3 - Game console





    And switch boxes... Oh I give up already... Silly me the AppleTV is perfect JUST THE WAY IT IS!



    Steveie old boy, don't change a thing!



    Dave
  • Reply 67 of 154
    It's great seeing so many people post about upcoming changes to the Itv. I am a huge apple enthusiast, and have a few hopes.....If they have found a way to compress HD so that it appears as

    HD, but can be downloaded.....COOL! This has been rumored, and certainly would make

    the Itv more desirable. Obviously we can't download a 40gb blu-ray movie. That's just silly. But something that appears like HD, and it's downloadable.....oooooo. I sincerely doubt they are including a blu-ray player on the unit because of cost, but if they have found a way to make the unit with one,.....hey, cool. I"d rather not though since I already own a ps3, and have blu-ray.

    Obviously there's going to be some sort of big content change with all the hooplah about the different companies signing on for the rental service......
  • Reply 68 of 154
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    For everyone who says there is no way Apple would include an optical drive...ever hear of compromise and negotiation? It's pretty common in the business world.



    Including an optical drive (preferably BlueRay) would go a very long way towards appeasing the studios. Apple includes a drive, the studios agree to let Apple rent movie via iTunes. The studios protect their physical media sales and Apple expands the iTunes universe and sells more AppleTVs.



    Win-win for everybody!



    The switch to digital video downloads isn't going to happen overnight (content, bandwidth, etc are still challenges to be overcome). 5 years after the introduction of the iTunes Music Store, and CD sales still far outstrip digital download purchases. The video transition will take at least as long. This could be the perfect transitional device.



    Also, last time I checked, iTunes still plays all my CDs. Apple isn't forcing me to buy all my music from the iTunes Store. So it's not like there is no precedent for Apple supporting optical media that competes with iTunes sales. Imaging how big of a failure the iPod would have been if it had depended from day 1 on iTunes purchased content.
  • Reply 69 of 154
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,358member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    For everyone who says there is no way Apple would include an optical drive...ever hear of compromise and negotiation? It's pretty common in the business world.



    Including an optical drive (preferably BlueRay) would go a very long way towards appeasing the studios. Apple includes a drive, the studios agree to let Apple rent movie via iTunes. The studios protect their physical media sales and Apple expands the iTunes universe and sells more AppleTVs.



    Win-win for everybody!



    The switch to digital video downloads isn't going to happen overnight (content, bandwidth, etc are still challenges to be overcome). 5 years after the introduction of the iTunes Music Store, and CD sales still far outstrip digital download purchases. The video transition will take at least as long. This could be the perfect transitional device.



    Also, last time I checked, iTunes still plays all my CDs. Apple isn't forcing me to buy all my music from the iTunes Store. So it's not like there is no precedent for Apple supporting optical media that competes with iTunes sales. Imaging how big of a failure the iPod would have been if it had depended from day 1 on iTunes purchased content.





    Wait a minute. Why would adding Blu-ray appease the studios? They're in the business of selling content whether it be on optical disc or electronic. I don't really see where the "appeasement" comes through. Digital bits requires a microfraction of the space that you need for a tangible product like Blu-ray. Studios most likely want to reduce their logistics costs and resell content over and over. The studios aren't trying to protect their physical sales they're trying to augment them with profitable IP ventures. They certainly don't want piracry but if they can license content and forgo the immense costs of pressing discs they will do so.



    Yes iTunes plays your CDs but you didn't have to buy a CD player bundled with your iPod. It worked with existing CD hardware in most cases. There's no need to bundle an expensive optical drive for a product that is aimed at leveraging online content.



    It's not going to happen. Just like the Mac Pros don't have Blu-ray drives. I think too many people are not realizing the costs involved. Licensing 3 codecs (MPEG2, VC1 and AVC) AACS license and BD+ costs as well. DRM is not free folks.
  • Reply 70 of 154
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Wait a minute. Why would adding Blu-ray appease the studios? They're in the business of selling content whether it be on optical disc or electronic. I don't really see where the "appeasement" comes through. Digital bits requires a microfraction of the space that you need for a tangible product like Blu-ray. Studios most likely want to reduce their logistics costs and resell content over and over. The studios aren't trying to protect their physical sales they're trying to augment them with profitable IP ventures. They certainly don't want piracry but if they can license content and forgo the immense costs of pressing discs they will do so.



    Yes iTunes plays your CDs but you didn't have to buy a CD player bundled with your iPod. It worked with existing CD hardware in most cases. There's no need to bundle an expensive optical drive for a product that is aimed at leveraging online content.



    It's not going to happen. Just like the Mac Pros don't have Blu-ray drives. I think too many people are not realizing the costs involved. Licensing 3 codecs (MPEG2, VC1 and AVC) AACS license and BD+ costs as well. DRM is not free folks.



    If they refuse to let me play content I've already purchased without having to find some way to rip into iTunes then I've got absolutely no interest in this thing. If it's all or nothing then in this case I'll choose nothing. At a minimum I want it to have a drive to play DVDs. Barring that, an elegant add-on that stacks cleanly would do.



    I'd really like to see a melding of the mini and the aTV. That would really be something special.
  • Reply 71 of 154
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Wait a minute. Why would adding Blu-ray appease the studios? They're in the business of selling content whether it be on optical disc or electronic. I don't really see where the "appeasement" comes through. Digital bits requires a microfraction of the space that you need for a tangible product like Blu-ray. Studios most likely want to reduce their logistics costs and resell content over and over. The studios aren't trying to protect their physical sales they're trying to augment them with profitable IP ventures. They certainly don't want piracry but if they can license content and forgo the immense costs of pressing discs they will do so.



    Yes iTunes plays your CDs but you didn't have to buy a CD player bundled with your iPod. It worked with existing CD hardware in most cases. There's no need to bundle an expensive optical drive for a product that is aimed at leveraging online content.



    It's not going to happen. Just like the Mac Pros don't have Blu-ray drives. I think too many people are not realizing the costs involved. Licensing 3 codecs (MPEG2, VC1 and AVC) AACS license and BD+ costs as well. DRM is not free folks.



    Unfortunately I think Murch is right. I don't see blu ray on the new ATV nor a DVR feature.



    Without one or the other I don't see any new compelling features from a consumers point of view.



    The ATV is a nice idea but ahead of its time. When all our media is purchased over the internet, it'll be a must have. But we're not there yet.
  • Reply 72 of 154
    pmjoepmjoe Posts: 565member
    Well, this doesn't seem too Apple-esque, but maybe that external Blu-ray drive I'm envisioning for the so-called ultra-portable Mac will also connect to the Apple TV via USB as a player.



    Anyhow, the 3 main things Apple needs to do with the Apple TV:
    1. beef up the HD playback specs (better hardware probably)

    2. software that works standalone over the Internet (online rentals, purchase content through iTunes Store, get podcasts automatically, etc. (without a Mac)

    3. ability to directly use an external drive over USB and also network storage

    Then get HD rentals and purchases going in the iTunes Store.



    Just getting the Apple TV both hardware and software-wise as a better standalone solution would vastly increase its value (and not cost much to implement). The software improvements could likely even be an update to the existing model. These other ideas like TV tuners, DVR, optical drives, etc. are gravy in comparison but would increase cost considerably.
  • Reply 73 of 154
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post


    You don't have a mother-inlaw, mother, wife operating your TV do you... Switch boxes and such have never had the WAF seal of usability...



    WAF being Wife approval factor



    There are auto switches. With those, you shouldn't have to touch the switch settings, just turn on and off the source devices. They're a bit more expensive, but not prohibitively so.
  • Reply 74 of 154
    No optical drive on the ATV. Most folks aren't going to buy it because it has DVD. Most people already have a DVD player. BR is too expensive too include.



    I say they make a model with cable card/tv tuner.



    Why?



    Well Cable companies have to support cable card and set top boxes are going retail (finally) in order to give consumers choice. Some of this is government mandated.



    Including this functionality would give folks another big reason to pick up an ATV aka to replace their set top box. Cable co charges you what? $5 or $10 a TV to rent them? Cable cards are around $2 or $3 to rent.



    What does this make the ATV? A Trojan horse. This new functionality gets it into the living room and meanwhile consumers discover iTunes movie rentals and all of the ATV's other capabilities.



    Note also that CAble Card doesn't do 2-way communciations. What does this mean? You can't use your CAble companies on-demand features with the ATV. This is where iTunes comes in.



    Comcast, in my area, has some pretty tiny set top boxes. Smaller than an ATV. I would imagine ATV wouldn't have to grow too much in order to include a TV tuner and cable card.



    Plus I would guess that including this cable set top box functionality would let you instantly access ATV while watching TV without switching inputs. Perhaps this gives you various overlay features as well.



    This thinking wouldn't be terribly unusual for Apple. Macs can run Windows now afterall.
  • Reply 75 of 154
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    If it includes a Blu Ray player then I might add one to my collection of Apple hardware. At a very minimum, it *needs* to be able to play DVDs. I want to replace a piece of hardware, not another one. A blu-ray player would be tempting. A DVR (which WONT happen) would make these things sell like hotcakes.



    You guys miss the entire purpose of ATV. Its not a DVD player, its not a DVR, its purpose is to augment and even replace these devices.



    There is little reason for Apple to compete in the DVR market. Cable has nearly all but dominated DVR. Tivo will eventually move from hardware to mostly supplying software to cable companies.



    I do agree that Apple limits ATV potential and sales by not allowing 3rd party ad ons.



    Quote:

    AGREE! DVD is dead ... HD-DVD is dead ... gotta be blu-ray!



    Blu-ray has to compete with SD-DVD, digital downloads, DVR, digital streaming, Video on Demand, Pay Per View. DVD didn't really have to compete with any of these distribution mediums. Its highly unlikely Blu-ray will see the success of DVD. The only obstacle holding downloading/streaming at bay and even giving Blu-ray a fighting chance of success is bandwidth.



    Quote:

    Consumers are pretty dumb, they just want to buy a TV and turn it on, not muck about with extra external boxes and new-fangled connectors.



    Most everyone I can think of has at least two external boxes under their television, cable box-DVD player. Many people have three or more.



    Quote:

    If they come out with a new piece of hardware thats gonna totally suck and will piss a lot of people off...I for one



    Of course they are going to update the hardware. More than likely they will offer older ATV any software improvements.
  • Reply 76 of 154
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    You guys miss the entire purpose of ATV. Its not a DVD player, its not a DVR, its purpose is to augment and even replace these devices.



    There is little reason for Apple to compete in the DVR market. Cable has nearly all but dominated DVR. Tivo will eventually move from hardware to mostly supplying software to cable companies.



    I do agree that Apple limits ATV potential and sales by not allowing 3rd party ad ons.







    Blu-ray has to compete with SD-DVD, digital downloads, DVR, digital streaming, Video on Demand, Pay Per View. DVD didn't really have to compete with any of these distribution mediums. Its highly unlikely Blu-ray will see the success of DVD. The only obstacle holding downloading/streaming at bay and even giving Blu-ray a fighting chance of success is bandwidth.







    Most everyone I can think of has at least two external boxes under their television, cable box-DVD player. Many people have three or more.







    Of course they are going to update the hardware. More than likely they will offer older ATV any software improvements.



    A DVD drive is a simple cheap addition to the device that lets me get rid of a larger, less functional device. I do "get it". "It" just doesn't appeal to me without that functionality. I'm sure Steve would like me to simplify my collection of electronic devices and that simple addition would go a long way toward helping achieve that.



    I've accumulated a good sized library of ccontent and I don't even want to consider the time and effort of ripping it all. The device you're suggesting asks too much of me and delivers too little.



    Why do you assume that because people already have devices littered about their TV that they actually *want* to add to that clutter?
  • Reply 77 of 154
    bsenkabsenka Posts: 799member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trip1ex View Post


    No optical drive on the ATV. Most folks aren't going to buy it because it has DVD. Most people already have a DVD player.



    Then why are there still so many mfrs selling so many DVD players? People still buy DVD players, whether to add a second (or third, etc) one, to replace an old one, or to finally catch up with the times. If ATV was also a DVD player, even people who aren't interested in iTunes video would still have it as a purchasing option.



    A tuner, PVR, and a recordable optical drive are all needed for the TV to be viable. People who don't want these features, don't want the product to survive, because without them, it won't.
  • Reply 78 of 154
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    A DVD drive is a simple cheap addition to the device that lets me get rid of a larger, less functional device. I do "get it". "It" just doesn't appeal to me without that functionality.



    Doesn't sound like you get it to me. Apple's intention for ATV is to use digital downloads as a replacement for DVD as a delivery medium.



    Quote:

    I've accumulated a good sized library of ccontent and I don't even want to consider the time and effort of ripping it all. The device you're suggesting asks too much of me and delivers too little.



    Sounds as if you need to stick with the DVD player.



    Quote:

    A tuner, PVR, and a recordable optical drive are all needed for the TV to be viable. People who don't want these features, don't want the product to survive, because without them, it won't.



    I think you are going a bit over board. Currently no one box does all of these things. The cable box does not have a DVD player. Most DVD players don't have a recordable optical drive, tuner or DVR recorder, or able to download digital content at all. Tivo doesn't have a DVD player. The video game consoles don't have a recordable optical drive, tuner, or DVR recorder. I'm not sure why you think ATV has to perform all of these functions to succeed.



    What the ATV needs to succeed is easy access to a wide variety of content with acceptable quality at a competitive price. Which to me says Netflix.
  • Reply 79 of 154
    bsenkabsenka Posts: 799member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Currently no one box does all of these things.



    Which is precisely why TV should. Nobody wants a stack of devices connected to their TV. Give me one box that replaces all of them, with a simple Mac-like on screen interface, and I'll buy 3 of them. Leave even one of those features out, and I'll make do with what I have.



    Cable boxes already come with PVRs in them, and you can order movies with them. Only thing missing is an optical player/recorder (DVD or Blu-Ray) built-in. First box to market with that will own the home video market the way iPods own the music player market now.
  • Reply 80 of 154
    markbmarkb Posts: 153member
    Quote:

    Wait a minute. Why would adding Blu-ray appease the studios?



    HD content is NOT going to be downloadable in the near future due its to excessive need for bandwidth. That in my opinion means there will be a market for an affordable Blu Ray player for quite some time. I think that studios might have recognized that they are near a tipping point with digital downloads and they could get smacked down like music sales on CDs if they dont get with the program. That said HD content is still going to be exclusively physical media for a couple of years more most likely.



    Including a Blu ray in ATV would be the best of both worlds for the studios. They get a majority of the profits from rentals of digital download of nonHD old media (DVD), and they greatly expand the market for HD. Could this be why the studios have recently dumped HDDVDs enmasse?



    The problem with this idea that I see is the cost factor for the ATV. It has to stay in the $300-400 range for Apple to sell any and it would have to also support full 1080p. As an owner of the current one I would be a little annoyed, but I would have to think a $400 ATV with Blu-ray would sell pretty well. I know the profit margins on the current ATVs are already below Apple standards (~30%) so inclusion of major new hardware and codecs while maintaining the same price could turn them into a loss leader, which isnt the strategy Apple has pursues with iTunes sales to date.



    In the end I am just confused and wanting it to be Tuesday already.
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