Report claims "major" Apple TV update in the pipeline

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  • Reply 121 of 154
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    AppleTV is ahead of it's time in terms of market, but behind in terms of functionality. Take a gander at the competition and try to convince me that ATV is the best solution out there. Not a chance.



    Agreed.
  • Reply 122 of 154
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    I stand by my belief that its a minor difference. From a users perspective the ablity to utilize one's existing content trumps the neat interface and other features of the ATV. Do you think the iPod would be as successful today as it is if iTunes didn't allow you to rip cds so easily? I can't find the link but I remember seeing an article at ars where 70% of the content on iPods was ripped from existing cds.



    What's the must have feature to get people to buy an ATV? Most people don't have much content they want or need to get from their Mac to their HDTV. Lackluster sales of the ATV support this belief. Increasing the storage on the ATV isn't going to change things much either.



    Then let us rip DVDs via iTunes (legally not allowable) or legally copy content like Tivo.
  • Reply 123 of 154
    areseearesee Posts: 776member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    Then let us rip DVDs via iTunes (legally not allowable) or legally copy content like Tivo.



    Then write your congressman and get him to create and pass a Video Home Recording Act to explicitly allow the home copying of DVDs. Just like the Audio Home Recording Act permits the copying of CDs. This is a legal debate not a technical one.
  • Reply 124 of 154
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    The point about not being able to rip right through iTunes is a good one. If Apple really wants the aTV successor to be a success in exactly the way the first one *wasn't* then they'll have to make some concessions on this one. If that means a really large standard drive for storing ripped content and a simple process to rip DVD content into iTunes then so be it. If it's just a point of sale terminal and display device for purchased content then it's a failure. I like the iPod because it means *fast* access to my entire library of music. There is no way I could dig through all my CDs to find the one I'm itching to listen to in the time I can navigate to it on my iPod. Make video this easy *especially my current content* and I'll order the first day. I'll even consider the iTMS offerings for future content.



    For those of you with immaculate bandwidth and the desire to clutter your lives with more devices, rather then simplifying (which I thought Apple was trying to do ala iPod) then I wish you well. They'll probably sell another 100 or even 150 of them. If it's not being completely revamped then why bother doing it at Macworld?
  • Reply 125 of 154
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Not only that, it needs to be backwards compatible with non-HD televisions. Most people have not gone digital. Apple really screwed the pooch on their market research.



    Yep. I'm sure that granny is going to want to buy an AppleTV to download content for her 18" black and white Sylvania set.



    AppleTV will work with most TVs purchased in the past 5 years or so - which has to cover the vast majority of people who would buy an Apple TV.
  • Reply 126 of 154
    irelandireland Posts: 17,794member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post


    If it could record TV I'd buy one. Oh well.



    You're missing it. Recording TV will be a non-issue when you can get your TV shows through an iTunes subscription. Why record when you can stream and watch?
  • Reply 127 of 154
    irelandireland Posts: 17,794member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    They should rename it the iTunes TV to help people understand what it is. "Apple TV" is a big mystery and people are too busy these days to find out what it does.



    Clever.



    They may just do that when they get the subscription TV show model setup.
  • Reply 128 of 154
    irelandireland Posts: 17,794member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bancho View Post


    A DVD drive is a simple cheap addition to the device that lets me get rid of a larger, less functional device. I do "get it". "It" just doesn't appeal to me without that functionality. I'm sure Steve would like me to simplify my collection of electronic devices and that simple addition would go a long way toward helping achieve that.



    I've accumulated a good sized library of ccontent and I don't even want to consider the time and effort of ripping it all. The device you're suggesting asks too much of me and delivers too little.



    Why do you assume that because people already have devices littered about their TV that they actually *want* to add to that clutter?



    Bingo, bingo bingo! I think about Apple TV exactly like this.



    I too will never consider buying an Apple TV until it has a DVD slot. I have too many DVD's to be even interested.
  • Reply 129 of 154
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    I can't put a DVD in my computer and have iTunes "rip" it onto my hard-drive/library. The process needs to be THAT easy for the product to be accepted like the iPod. But Apple can't do that without being sued, so the solution is to put an optical drive in the aTV.



    True to some degree. But DVD ripping software has been around for a long time and has gotten a lot better over the years. The software much of the time is free and the interfaces has become very easy to use easy to use. Handbreak has presets for the device you want to play the movie on. It doesn't get much easier than that.



    I agree digitizing and importing a large DVD collection is a lot of work. But you cannot act like its not an option when it clearly is. As opposed to when DVD was first introduced you had no choice but to purchase your entire collection over again.



    Apple's idea really is for the consumer to not deal with DVD at all. The solution is for Apple to open ATV to several digital downloading services. So that ATV has access to a wider variety of content.



    Quote:

    You know this isn't true. CDs are directly ripped within iTunes. No such option exists for ATV.



    Because it doesn't exist in iTunes means it doesn't exist period?



  • Reply 130 of 154
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    User can continue to use their existing content - on the DVD player that they already have connected to their TV. There's little (or no) benefit to ripping the videos to the Apple TV - unless you're just too lazy to get off the couch to change a disk.



    There is a benefit. It allows instant access to any video in your collection. But its sort of an individual choice whether that is worth the effort or not.



    Quote:

    If Apple really wants the aTV successor to be a success in exactly the way the first one *wasn't* then they'll have to make some concessions on this one.



    I think you are just being stubborn on this one. DVR, VOD, PPV, and internet downloading don't involve physical DVD and they are all faster growing revenue markets than the DVD market. The DVD market has actually reached its peak and is flattening out.



    What they all have that ATV has not had is access to a wide variety of content.



    Quote:

    I too will never consider buying an Apple TV until it has a DVD slot. I have too man DVD's to be even interested.



    If you are really that invested in your DVD collection then a DVD player is what you need. ATV, cable box, Sling Box, and Tivo are all about moving past physical media. If what you need is a physical media box none of these will ever suite that need.



    I have a relatively modest DVD collection and have mostly been renting DVD's for the past few years. Over the past year I've used my cable DVR and VOD just as much as I've used the DVD player. Once their is enough digital content I can pretty easily see using the DVD player very little.
  • Reply 131 of 154
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,359member
    Steve Jobs has stated that the Apple TV (ATV) is the "DVD for the Internet" and while I see value in adding an optical drive I don't see enough to warrant the additional engineering complexity (the ATV already runs hot and has a HDD. Adding "another" moving part isn't a good idea IMO)



    We all have DVDs that we want to view but I doubt that even 10% care about reducing clutter so much so long as they have enough ports for all of their AV gear.



    The ATV is about leveraging iTunes content from the Internet and from local Macs and PCs on the network. It's not designed to be your swiss army "everything in one box". Your clutter management is your issue..not Apple's.



    As Tenobell has stated you "can" get your DVD content ripped and playable on the ATV but Apple cannot do this because it's still illegal. The sweat equity goes to those who expend the effort.



    Frankly I don't want to pay extra so that some guy/gal can eliminate their DVD player. I'm fine with my current DVD playback device. The ATV to me just augments your current setup. I know longer keep a VHS player in my AV stack so clutter reduction happens over time regardless. I'd much rather get rid of my cable box than worry about DVD/ATV integration.
  • Reply 132 of 154
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Because it doesn't exist in iTunes means it doesn't exist period?







    Yes, I'm aware of handbrake and use it myself. I doubt the average user is aware of it though.
  • Reply 133 of 154
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Steve Jobs has stated that the Apple TV (ATV) is the "DVD for the Internet" and while I see value in adding an optical drive I don't see enough to warrant the additional engineering complexity (the ATV already runs hot and has a HDD. Adding "another" moving part isn't a good idea IMO)



    We all have DVDs that we want to view but I doubt that even 10% care about reducing clutter so much so long as they have enough ports for all of their AV gear.



    The ATV is about leveraging iTunes content from the Internet and from local Macs and PCs on the network. It's not designed to be your swiss army "everything in one box". Your clutter management is your issue..not Apple's.



    As Tenobell has stated you "can" get your DVD content ripped and playable on the ATV but Apple cannot do this because it's still illegal. The sweat equity goes to those who expend the effort.



    Frankly I don't want to pay extra so that some guy/gal can eliminate their DVD player. I'm fine with my current DVD playback device. The ATV to me just augments your current setup. I know longer keep a VHS player in my AV stack so clutter reduction happens over time regardless. I'd much rather get rid of my cable box than worry about DVD/ATV integration.





    Well, what can/should Apple do to improve sales of the ATV?



    Doesn't look like the current recipe works.
  • Reply 134 of 154
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Honestly, I haven't seen anything suggested by those advocating against features like an optical drive, or other functions that would really differentiate a revamped aTV from the current one. Maybe more content? Movie rentals? That's it?



    Well, the aTV must not be the device I was looking for and I look forward to seeing how well it sells. The iPod and iTunes integrated my content really well with new content available online. The thing seems to give me the finger and say "my way or the highway, bitch".



    I guess, that being the case, I'd take the highway.



    Do you really think that Steve & co. looked at the aTV and said:



    Steve: "what's wrong with the aTV?"

    Nameless Apple Minion: "Maybe it lacks key features that keep potential buyers from biting."

    Steve: "Nah, we just need more stuff to sell to play on it."



    After spending $XXX it better do a heck of a lot out of the box. If, after spending that , I'm faced with $X.99 to rent a movie, I'd be pissed.
  • Reply 135 of 154
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,359member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    Well, what can/should Apple do to improve sales of the ATV?



    Doesn't look like the current recipe works.



    1. High Definition

    2. Offer Rentals

    3. Distributed movies for homes with multiple ATV.

    4. Internet Browsing/ .Mac support

    5. Lower Price



    In typical fashion too many computer enthusiasts want to go upmarket (Add a Terabyte drive, add Blu-ray etc) but items become mass market and reach critical mass when you hit $199 and $99 price points.



    I look for the next ATV major update to leverage the improved filesharing and video features of Leopard. I look for the next hardware refresh to be cheaper to manufacture yet more functional. Perhaps there's some truth to Apple utilizing Intel's Slilverthorne or Canmore technology.



    I didn't figure the original ATV would sell like gangbusters. It's priced at the same price as a base Xbox 360. $299 is a tough pricepoint to sell electronics to the masses unless they get a lot of enjoyment from that device.



    You gotta figure that consumers also realize they have to take the plunge into HDTV sooner or later. Also let's not forget that HD camcorders are HOT. If Apple's smart they'll somehow tie in iLife to the ATV making it drop dead easy to view or listen to your own content on the Big Screen.
  • Reply 136 of 154
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    Well, what can/should Apple do to improve sales of the ATV? Doesn't look like the current recipe works.



    Content, content, content. ATV currently does not have access to a wide variety of content. Nearly every other digital delivery service has far more video content than iTunes. Inspite of this however iTunes is still the top video downloading service.



    Quote:

    Maybe more content? Movie rentals? That's it?



    Essentially yes. I think people's loyalty is more to content and convenience than their loyalty is to any particular delivery medium.



    Once people are able to push a button and instantaneously receive the same amount of digital content that is currently available on DVD. Physical media sales will plummet.



    Movie studios and television networks know this. That is why they are careful about giving the digital download market to Apple the way the record industry did.
  • Reply 137 of 154
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    1. High Definition

    2. Offer Rentals

    3. Distributed movies for homes with multiple ATV.

    4. Internet Browsing/ .Mac support

    5. Lower Price



    In typical fashion too many computer enthusiasts want to go upmarket (Add a Terabyte drive, add Blu-ray etc) but items become mass market and reach critical mass when you hit $199 and $99 price points.



    I look for the next ATV major update to leverage the improved filesharing and video features of Leopard. I look for the next hardware refresh to be cheaper to manufacture yet more functional. Perhaps there's some truth to Apple utilizing Intel's Slilverthorne or Canmore technology.



    I didn't figure the original ATV would sell like gangbusters. It's priced at the same price as a base Xbox 360. $299 is a tough pricepoint to sell electronics to the masses unless they get a lot of enjoyment from that device.



    You gotta figure that consumers also realize they have to take the plunge into HDTV sooner or later. Also let's not forget that HD camcorders are HOT. If Apple's smart they'll somehow tie in iLife to the ATV making it drop dead easy to view or listen to your own content on the Big Screen.



    Your suggestions make sense. However:



    1. HD. Bandwidth is a big issue. Not everyone has FIOS and is able to download HD content in a reasonable timeframe. This issue is going to be around for a while too.



    2. Offer Rentals. Good idea but last I read Apple is a little short on content.



    3. Distributed Movies for homes with multiple ATVs. Hmm. Seems a bit ambitious given the weak sales of the ATV. How many people have multiple ATVs?



    4 Internet Browsing and .Mac support. A nice feature. Would help.



    5. Lower Price. No brainer if no DVR or optical drive features added.



    I think your suggestions would help but at the end of the day the ATV is starved of content. It may also puts the fate of the ATV in the hands of the studios.
  • Reply 138 of 154
    bwikbwik Posts: 564member
    I believe Apple will offer 2 Apple TV products:



    #1: $299



    Apple TV with HDTV tuner, ability to control cable / sat boxes.



    * Interface for channel navigation and information -- now your TV surfing is an Apple experience, no matter what.

    * Possible ability to record like TiVo

    * Digital media server / iTunes browser just like it is now. Ability to send email and possibly web browse if desired.

    * DVD player. (which costs Apple about $25 to put in)

    * Upshot: Same as it is now but with HDTV surfing and DVD built-in.





    #2: $499 or $599



    Same as above but with Blu-Ray drive.
  • Reply 139 of 154
    jensonbjensonb Posts: 530member
    This is a bit out of left field, but I posted this idea on my blog as part of my second look at MacWorld this year:



    Apple ships a piece of software for Nintendo's Wii via the WiiWare (Wii Software in Europe) system. This will be FrontRow 2. Possibly branded as iTunes or AppleTWii or something cute like that.



    I'll call it AppleTV for Wii here.



    AppleTV for Wii will mirror AppleTV in features. However, instead of downloading your content, it will rely solely on streaming. So all the content on your Mac or PC can be watched, listened to our whatevered on your TV via Wii.



    This is a big win for Apple as well as The Big N. Nintendo gets to monetise Mario and co on Apple's various platforms and, in exchange, gets software which essentially leapfrogs its Wii ahead of Microsoft's Xbox 360 and Sony's PS3 as a media entertainment hub. Which sucks for Microsoft and Sony since that's really their main defense against Nintendo's unstoppable onslaught with Wii.



    Apple, meanwhile, gets to sell a slightly cut down version of Apple TV to less HD-oriented customers without having to build any hardware. All they do is charge a one-off software fee, say, 1200 Wii Points (If they even decide to charge) and the iTunes/AppleTV ecosystem becomes backwards compatible with non-HD TVs and draws in new customers to iTunes from those who have Wiis and want to watch movies on their TVs.
  • Reply 140 of 154
    irelandireland Posts: 17,794member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    If you are really that invested in your DVD collection then a DVD player is what you need. If what you need is a physical media box none of these will ever suite that need.



    You are missing the point. If Apple TV had a slot-load DVD drive, and iTunes had a decent collection of movies that would only mean I could also use it to play my DVD's, and I could download all my future content. The best of both worlds. If Apple doesn't look at Apple TV this way then they are missing the point too. Adding a slot just makes the device more useful, it doesn't undermine their business model at all. Nobody is going to download a movie they already own anyway.



    How Apple will make people choose to download is by offering a better service, just like they did with music.



    And by them adding a slot I can have one item under my TV, not two. That's a good thing, not a bad thing.
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