I read it, carefully, and began to write a response to it.
I decided not to post my response (actually, I gave up pretty quickly), even though it was encouraging and cheekily 'sexist', because I don't know you, or your hypothetical wife, and it's really unguessable what goes on behind closed doors, I've never been married and my advice would have been internet nonsense, and not really useful. It was along the lines of 'compromise and selective indulgence save relationships.'
Me, I'm pretty pissed off because I thought you were being honest and I thought about you sort of kindly for a day, and now I know you were beating your men are victims hobbyhorse again. It's pretty lame.
First my wife isn't hypothetical. A member of this board has even met her.
Second you present a rather interesting paradox yourself. Apparently you enjoyed and thought kindly of me when I noted I was being victimized or at a minimum was troubled. However when I noted this wasn't the fact and in fact said men should not allow themselves to be victimized, well this you get pissed off about.
I mean aside from being tricked into this realization, can you tell me how the reasoning makes any sense? Why are you so pissed that I am only fictionally troubled for the purpose of reflection as opposed to legitimately troubled?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship
I was irritated with this game as well. Why? First of all my sister is having problems in her marriage and I have been there for her and it takes a toll on me as well being family and all. Some of my neighbors are having money issues and I have tried to encourage them during their hard times (their money problems are due to medical costs). Then to see Nick having "stuff" going on I wanted to extend to him my friendship in time of need also.
For the rug to be jerked out and Nick saying.... I lied to you all
It pissed me off. Being a Christian I forgive Nick right away but my goodness I hope Nick does not do this kind of stuff in the future. It is not cool to jerk around people in some kind of trick.
And Nick don't get on Shawn or any other posters here as if this is about some kind of fault on their behalf. This entire thread is your doing Nick. OWN that and move on.
Fellows
I assure you I own the thread. You know I personally PM'ed you about your concerns. However you shared. I'll gladly get on those who were not mislead or tricked in any fashion and still take offense as if they were. Nothing was done to them.
The thread is about paradoxes and one of them is the willingness to lie to bring about the truth. The truth is that men will victimize themselves because they do not believe they deserve better. Society enjoys pointing at the few winners but ignores the many, many losers as well. No one is clamoring to break into the glass cellar of men in prisons, dangerous jobs, being killed in wars, divorced and tossed out of the lives of their kids, etc. I mean we will decry these things briefly but since we consider men to be disposable, it is never addressed long term.
I'm tired of teaching kids who have no fathers in their homes. I'm tired of seeing a member of my family and a close friend of mine self-persecute themselves for having bothered to choose the wrong woman. My friend took all the family debts, gave her the house, borrowed from his own 401k to set up a new household, and finally has the kids 60% of the time while paying her child support even though she earns the same money.
He does this so she won't fight him for the kids whereby in a court he knows he would lose due to the sexism out there.
If we won't wake up to it, we can't fight it. If the wake up call feels like a slap then we should all ask ourselves why portraying a man as strong and a woman as weak engenders good and kind feelings while pondering the reverse engenders animosity and anger.
Second you present a rather interesting paradox yourself. Apparently you enjoyed and thought kindly of me when I noted I was being victimized or at a minimum was troubled. However when I noted this wasn't the fact and in fact said men should not allow themselves to be victimized, well this you get pissed off about.
I don't give a shit about whether or not you're a victim, I was thinking 'What advice can I give this guy about this perfectly normal but troubling situation he's in?'
The gender/ victim stuff I still don't get. I don't care about it.
This is my last response to you here, because I don't think the 'debate' is legitimate or legitimately started, ie, you shouldn't be allowed to get away with this shit.
I mean aside from being tricked into this realization....
Why are you so pissed that I am only fictionally troubled.....
For crying out loud! When you lie to people's face in a deliberate attempt to manipulate them, and get people to tell you their own personal (real, not fake) stories,people get pissed! There's nothing more complicated than that going on here.
Once again......
People get pissed off by bald-faced lies. It's as simple as that. No one gives a rat's ass pro or con about your gender theories in this situation. They care about being lied to. Hopefully I've repeated that enough that it actually sinks in.
You're just talking past everyone and trying to engage them in a conversation that no one cares about, because no one is going to get past your big pack-full of lies.
Second you present a rather interesting paradox yourself. Apparently you enjoyed and thought kindly of me when I noted I was being victimized or at a minimum was troubled. However when I noted this wasn't the fact and in fact said men should not allow themselves to be victimized, well this you get pissed off about.
BULLSHIT NICK
Stop the insanity. Stop twisting what Hassan and myself and others have told you FLATLY. This is not about Hassan wanting you to be in troubled times or hurt or "victimized" as you put it and now that you say it was a lie he is pissed because are you trying to suggest he is pissed you are not in a heap of issues???? If you think that is the case Nick you need to check in to see a doctor right away. Hassan does not wish for you to be in hurt or any such thing. SO don't twist the facts as you are so damn good at lately and claim that is what he wants.
STOP TWISTING THE FACTS NICK
PLEASE for God's SAKE
STOP telling lies to us
Stop fooling yourself.
If you can't for some reason you need to get yourself to a doctor.
For crying out loud! When you lie to people's face in a deliberate attempt to manipulate them, and get people to tell you their own personal (real, not fake) stories,people get pissed! There's nothing more complicated than that going on here.
In a large sense this is why the world hates the US under this Bush / war for oil admin.
Lies (too many to count) and insults (freedom fries) don't go over well with anybody. Anybody.
This thread too was created out of deception, lies, and bad bad judgement with wreckless abandon for the fallout it causes others.
For crying out loud! When you lie to people's face in a deliberate attempt to manipulate them, and get people to tell you their own personal (real, not fake) stories,people get pissed! There's nothing more complicated than that going on here.
Once again......
People get pissed off by bald-faced lies. It's as simple as that. No one gives a rat's ass pro or con about your gender theories in this situation. They care about being lied to. Hopefully I've repeated that enough that it actually sinks in.
You're just talking past everyone and trying to engage them in a conversation that no one cares about, because no one is going to get past your big pack-full of lies.
You are claiming that there are no studies where the participants in it are mislead about what data is being collected about? No one is ever given placebos?
Since we both know that isn't true, you should just fess up to being ticked off at what you saw in the mirror. You are like the kid who is ticked off that they group made him raise his hand on the wrong letter when asked which line is the longest.
If no one cases about the conversation then let it go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship
Directed to Hassan:
BULLSHIT NICK
Stop the insanity. Stop twisting what Hassan and myself and others have told you FLATLY. This is not about Hassan wanting you to be in troubled times or hurt or "victimized" as you put it and now that you say it was a lie he is pissed because are you trying to suggest he is pissed you are not in a heap of issues???? If you think that is the case Nick you need to check in to see a doctor right away. Hassan does not wish for you to be in hurt or any such thing. SO don't twist the facts as you are so damn good at lately and claim that is what he wants.
STOP TWISTING THE FACTS NICK
PLEASE for God's SAKE
STOP telling lies to us
Stop fooling yourself.
If you can't for some reason you need to get yourself to a doctor.
Fellows
I don't twist the facts. I see them for what they are and treat them accordingly. People are mostly pissed because they know that no one would ever coddle them the way they suggested I coddle my wife. They would never want to be lied to, given false praise, or any of the other stuff that was suggested.
I would love to here Shawn declare that every woman who pulls off a work and home shift and complains that the man in her life cannot is actually an oppressor as he did here with the reverse.
I am the one calling bullshit. I did it with a mirror. Sorry if some people don't like what they see but those are the facts.
Let me call some bullshit on you as well. What "fallout" is there related to this? Someone believed I was troubled for two days on the internet. Did they jump into their car and come help? Did they send me some money? Aside from my mirror which some don't like, what is the fall out?
You are claiming that there are no studies where the participants in it are mislead about what data is being collected about? No one is ever given placebos?
Since we both know that isn't true, you should just fess up to being ticked off at what you saw in the mirror. You are like the kid who is ticked off that they group made him raise his hand on the wrong letter when asked which line is the longest.
If no one cases about the conversation then let it go.
As much as you want to make this about whatever theories you have, it is still about you being a big fat liar.
I saw nothing in the mirror because when I skimmed your first post I thought "kinda sounds like a couple of losers" and left it at that.
Then when I skimmed your 'gotcha' post I thought 'what a duplicitous asshole who doesn't have the slightest clue how to go about doing what he's claiming to try and do."
It would take pages to describe all ways in which your "study" does not comport with current standards of ethics and scientific rigor.
If you think what you've done sheds any legitimate light on whatever the hell it is you think you're investigating, you're delusional, pure and simple.
You do realize that people who get placebos realize that this is a possibility when they enroll in the study, don't you? Any study that didn't would never get past IRB, and if it happened anyways, all federally funded research at that institution would likely get shut down for a period of time.
In fact, in many cases when, for example, a new cholesterol drug is being tested, the control group is given a different cholesterol drug instead of a placebo.
Wow. I didn't realize there were that many people on here that assumed everything they read on the Internet is true.
Knowing the origional post was made-up doesn't change my opinion/response to it (as if it had been true.) So in that case his amateur research is valid enough. I'm not left with the impression that this was intended to be "professional" research.
Did you people get this upset the first time you saw a "tranquil" or "innocent" Internet page interupted by a screaming monster? It's all part of this annonymous interaction that is the Internet.
So yeah as Shawn said, he's getting roasted at AN too. Apparently the significance of this happening at both sites escapes Nick.
He's been banned at AN and sent off for (temporary) motivation (hint, hint). Might I suggest that at the very least, a mod put a warning at the start of the thread so the unwary who haven't already read it don't get put through the BS that everybody else has had to cop.
... Might I suggest that at the very least, a mod put a warning at the start of the thread so the unwary who haven't already read it don't get put through the BS that everybody else has had to cop.
If someone wants to post to a thread without actually reading it first, then they deserve whatever they "get".
Yes that's what I meant. The name of the thread has been changed to "Hoax of Hoaxes" at AN so everybody knows what they're getting into and don't waste time feeling sorry for him.
After reflecting on my rather harsh replies after the hoax was revealed I am at a point of saying whatever it is Trumt is going through how about we just drop this whole thing and let Nick be.
I like Nick and I am personally sorry to him for my harsh replies.
Again whatever it is going on with Nick and this thread I think it would be a good thing to let this be behind us and move forward.
That is mighty nice of you Fellowship. If I spent the time in helping out someone and it turned out it was all some big farce, i wouldn't be so quick to forget.
Comments
I read it, carefully, and began to write a response to it.
I decided not to post my response (actually, I gave up pretty quickly), even though it was encouraging and cheekily 'sexist', because I don't know you, or your hypothetical wife, and it's really unguessable what goes on behind closed doors, I've never been married and my advice would have been internet nonsense, and not really useful. It was along the lines of 'compromise and selective indulgence save relationships.'
Me, I'm pretty pissed off because I thought you were being honest and I thought about you sort of kindly for a day, and now I know you were beating your men are victims hobbyhorse again. It's pretty lame.
First my wife isn't hypothetical. A member of this board has even met her.
Second you present a rather interesting paradox yourself. Apparently you enjoyed and thought kindly of me when I noted I was being victimized or at a minimum was troubled. However when I noted this wasn't the fact and in fact said men should not allow themselves to be victimized, well this you get pissed off about.
I mean aside from being tricked into this realization, can you tell me how the reasoning makes any sense? Why are you so pissed that I am only fictionally troubled for the purpose of reflection as opposed to legitimately troubled?
I was irritated with this game as well. Why? First of all my sister is having problems in her marriage and I have been there for her and it takes a toll on me as well being family and all. Some of my neighbors are having money issues and I have tried to encourage them during their hard times (their money problems are due to medical costs). Then to see Nick having "stuff" going on I wanted to extend to him my friendship in time of need also.
For the rug to be jerked out and Nick saying.... I lied to you all
It pissed me off. Being a Christian I forgive Nick right away but my goodness I hope Nick does not do this kind of stuff in the future. It is not cool to jerk around people in some kind of trick.
And Nick don't get on Shawn or any other posters here as if this is about some kind of fault on their behalf. This entire thread is your doing Nick. OWN that and move on.
Fellows
I assure you I own the thread. You know I personally PM'ed you about your concerns. However you shared. I'll gladly get on those who were not mislead or tricked in any fashion and still take offense as if they were. Nothing was done to them.
The thread is about paradoxes and one of them is the willingness to lie to bring about the truth. The truth is that men will victimize themselves because they do not believe they deserve better. Society enjoys pointing at the few winners but ignores the many, many losers as well. No one is clamoring to break into the glass cellar of men in prisons, dangerous jobs, being killed in wars, divorced and tossed out of the lives of their kids, etc. I mean we will decry these things briefly but since we consider men to be disposable, it is never addressed long term.
I'm tired of teaching kids who have no fathers in their homes. I'm tired of seeing a member of my family and a close friend of mine self-persecute themselves for having bothered to choose the wrong woman. My friend took all the family debts, gave her the house, borrowed from his own 401k to set up a new household, and finally has the kids 60% of the time while paying her child support even though she earns the same money.
He does this so she won't fight him for the kids whereby in a court he knows he would lose due to the sexism out there.
If we won't wake up to it, we can't fight it. If the wake up call feels like a slap then we should all ask ourselves why portraying a man as strong and a woman as weak engenders good and kind feelings while pondering the reverse engenders animosity and anger.
Second you present a rather interesting paradox yourself. Apparently you enjoyed and thought kindly of me when I noted I was being victimized or at a minimum was troubled. However when I noted this wasn't the fact and in fact said men should not allow themselves to be victimized, well this you get pissed off about.
I don't give a shit about whether or not you're a victim, I was thinking 'What advice can I give this guy about this perfectly normal but troubling situation he's in?'
The gender/ victim stuff I still don't get. I don't care about it.
This is my last response to you here, because I don't think the 'debate' is legitimate or legitimately started, ie, you shouldn't be allowed to get away with this shit.
I mean aside from being tricked into this realization....
Why are you so pissed that I am only fictionally troubled.....
For crying out loud! When you lie to people's face in a deliberate attempt to manipulate them, and get people to tell you their own personal (real, not fake) stories,people get pissed! There's nothing more complicated than that going on here.
Once again......
People get pissed off by bald-faced lies. It's as simple as that. No one gives a rat's ass pro or con about your gender theories in this situation. They care about being lied to. Hopefully I've repeated that enough that it actually sinks in.
You're just talking past everyone and trying to engage them in a conversation that no one cares about, because no one is going to get past your big pack-full of lies.
Second you present a rather interesting paradox yourself. Apparently you enjoyed and thought kindly of me when I noted I was being victimized or at a minimum was troubled. However when I noted this wasn't the fact and in fact said men should not allow themselves to be victimized, well this you get pissed off about.
BULLSHIT NICK
Stop the insanity. Stop twisting what Hassan and myself and others have told you FLATLY. This is not about Hassan wanting you to be in troubled times or hurt or "victimized" as you put it and now that you say it was a lie he is pissed because are you trying to suggest he is pissed you are not in a heap of issues???? If you think that is the case Nick you need to check in to see a doctor right away. Hassan does not wish for you to be in hurt or any such thing. SO don't twist the facts as you are so damn good at lately and claim that is what he wants.
STOP TWISTING THE FACTS NICK
PLEASE for God's SAKE
STOP telling lies to us
Stop fooling yourself.
If you can't for some reason you need to get yourself to a doctor.
Fellows
For crying out loud! When you lie to people's face in a deliberate attempt to manipulate them, and get people to tell you their own personal (real, not fake) stories,people get pissed! There's nothing more complicated than that going on here.
In a large sense this is why the world hates the US under this Bush / war for oil admin.
Lies (too many to count) and insults (freedom fries) don't go over well with anybody. Anybody.
This thread too was created out of deception, lies, and bad bad judgement with wreckless abandon for the fallout it causes others.
Fellows
For crying out loud! When you lie to people's face in a deliberate attempt to manipulate them, and get people to tell you their own personal (real, not fake) stories,people get pissed! There's nothing more complicated than that going on here.
Once again......
People get pissed off by bald-faced lies. It's as simple as that. No one gives a rat's ass pro or con about your gender theories in this situation. They care about being lied to. Hopefully I've repeated that enough that it actually sinks in.
You're just talking past everyone and trying to engage them in a conversation that no one cares about, because no one is going to get past your big pack-full of lies.
You are claiming that there are no studies where the participants in it are mislead about what data is being collected about? No one is ever given placebos?
Since we both know that isn't true, you should just fess up to being ticked off at what you saw in the mirror. You are like the kid who is ticked off that they group made him raise his hand on the wrong letter when asked which line is the longest.
If no one cases about the conversation then let it go.
Directed to Hassan:
BULLSHIT NICK
Stop the insanity. Stop twisting what Hassan and myself and others have told you FLATLY. This is not about Hassan wanting you to be in troubled times or hurt or "victimized" as you put it and now that you say it was a lie he is pissed because are you trying to suggest he is pissed you are not in a heap of issues???? If you think that is the case Nick you need to check in to see a doctor right away. Hassan does not wish for you to be in hurt or any such thing. SO don't twist the facts as you are so damn good at lately and claim that is what he wants.
STOP TWISTING THE FACTS NICK
PLEASE for God's SAKE
STOP telling lies to us
Stop fooling yourself.
If you can't for some reason you need to get yourself to a doctor.
Fellows
I don't twist the facts. I see them for what they are and treat them accordingly. People are mostly pissed because they know that no one would ever coddle them the way they suggested I coddle my wife. They would never want to be lied to, given false praise, or any of the other stuff that was suggested.
I would love to here Shawn declare that every woman who pulls off a work and home shift and complains that the man in her life cannot is actually an oppressor as he did here with the reverse.
I am the one calling bullshit. I did it with a mirror. Sorry if some people don't like what they see but those are the facts.
Let me call some bullshit on you as well. What "fallout" is there related to this? Someone believed I was troubled for two days on the internet. Did they jump into their car and come help? Did they send me some money? Aside from my mirror which some don't like, what is the fall out?
what is the fall out?
Your credibility.
I have no more time for this lab rat trick of yours. Cheers
Fellows
You are claiming that there are no studies where the participants in it are mislead about what data is being collected about? No one is ever given placebos?
Since we both know that isn't true, you should just fess up to being ticked off at what you saw in the mirror. You are like the kid who is ticked off that they group made him raise his hand on the wrong letter when asked which line is the longest.
If no one cases about the conversation then let it go.
As much as you want to make this about whatever theories you have, it is still about you being a big fat liar.
I saw nothing in the mirror because when I skimmed your first post I thought "kinda sounds like a couple of losers" and left it at that.
Then when I skimmed your 'gotcha' post I thought 'what a duplicitous asshole who doesn't have the slightest clue how to go about doing what he's claiming to try and do."
It would take pages to describe all ways in which your "study" does not comport with current standards of ethics and scientific rigor.
If you think what you've done sheds any legitimate light on whatever the hell it is you think you're investigating, you're delusional, pure and simple.
You do realize that people who get placebos realize that this is a possibility when they enroll in the study, don't you? Any study that didn't would never get past IRB, and if it happened anyways, all federally funded research at that institution would likely get shut down for a period of time.
In fact, in many cases when, for example, a new cholesterol drug is being tested, the control group is given a different cholesterol drug instead of a placebo.
You are absolutely right I never said I what I did was an error in judgement. I don't consider it to be such and wouldn't change what I did.
Really... are we surprised?
He's already shown where his ethics lay.
Knowing the origional post was made-up doesn't change my opinion/response to it (as if it had been true.) So in that case his amateur research is valid enough. I'm not left with the impression that this was intended to be "professional" research.
Did you people get this upset the first time you saw a "tranquil" or "innocent" Internet page interupted by a screaming monster? It's all part of this annonymous interaction that is the Internet.
Did you people get this upset the first time you saw a "tranquil" or "innocent" Internet page interupted by a screaming monster?
Good analogy.
He's been banned at AN and sent off for (temporary) motivation (hint, hint). Might I suggest that at the very least, a mod put a warning at the start of the thread so the unwary who haven't already read it don't get put through the BS that everybody else has had to cop.
... Might I suggest that at the very least, a mod put a warning at the start of the thread so the unwary who haven't already read it don't get put through the BS that everybody else has had to cop.
If someone wants to post to a thread without actually reading it first, then they deserve whatever they "get".
I like Nick and I am personally sorry to him for my harsh replies.
Again whatever it is going on with Nick and this thread I think it would be a good thing to let this be behind us and move forward.
Peace,
Fellows