The Belgium case will set the precedent in the European Courts in which Finland must adhere to.
You obviously have no clues about Finns. You can go ask the operators if their big branding campaign was successful or not. People opted to pay full price for a phone rather than have branding crap, and crippled phones. The same will happen here as well. You might see some attempts to lock phones to a network but operators and phone manufacturers know that the subscribers will not go for it. Considering the fact that no contractual deal could be struck between Apple and the operators is proof positive that locked phones will not fly here.
You obviously have no clues about Finns. You can go ask the operators if their big branding campaign was successful or not. People opted to pay full price for a phone rather than have branding crap, and crippled phones. The same will happen here as well. You might see some attempts to lock phones to a network but operators and phone manufacturers know that the subscribers will not go for it. Considering the fact that no contractual deal could be struck between Apple and the operators is proof positive that locked phones will not fly here.
But that's MY point, isn't it?
Whether the carriers would do certain things have nothing to do with these European legal consumer protection frameworks. Without any US government intervention and without any contractual terms obligating American carriers to provide unlocking codes --- American carriers do provide unlocking codes to their customers.
You can have the European Court of Justice striking down the Belgium and Finnish simlocking/anti-bundling laws --- and these Belgium and Finnish carriers may very well still provide unlocked phones to their customers.
Whether the carriers would do certain things have nothing to do with these European legal consumer protection frameworks. Without any US government intervention and without any contractual terms obligating American carriers to provide unlocking codes --- American carriers do provide unlocking codes to their customers.
You can have the European Court of Justice striking down the Belgium and Finnish simlocking/anti-bundling laws --- and these Belgium and Finnish carriers may very well still provide unlocked phones to their customers.
Who knows?
By the way, any chance you will part with that "study" by the "Finnish" university or should we chalk this up as one of life's unsolved mysteries that can not be verified do to lack of information?
By the way, any chance you will part with that "study" by the "Finnish" university or should we chalk this up as one of life's unsolved mysteries that can not be verified do to lack of information?
I cited the original source on page 2 --- all the information are on the front page of the pdf file.
I missed the part about the Finnish study. Can you point this out?
What Finnish study?
I said I cited repeated about an academic paper from a Finnish university --- and I gave the pdf file as my original source.
Here is another 2 Finnish research people from the same Finnish university and gave a seminar powerpoint presentation at the International Telecommunications Society Biennial Conference in Berlin in 2004.
While waiting for your info, I took the liberty of contacting several colleagues working for the various operators here in Finland and they all agreed that some give away items were part of the mix. DVD players, and such never were as these would cost more than the handset. I did mention your info as well and they too were asking about your source. Now that you posted it, I can forward it on to them.
Anyway, it says that Elisa wants to have SIMlocks put in place, while the other guys don't. Easy to understand. Elisa is bleeding customers to TeliaSonera, and DNA. Two reasons. TeliaSonera has a better network and DNA has cheaper prices. There were some interesting items in this article that appear to be incorrect. Not that this is a reflection on you, but some of his data and conclusions are not true. Anyway, I am going back to get my DVD or digital camera tomorrow.
As for the unlocking issue. If AT&T does it. Who cares? If they don't. Who cares again? Not me because I bought my iPhone and unlocked my self with the help of a very smart guy (Geohot), who seems to be able to kick Apple's and AT&T's butt any time they throw something at him. Belgium may loose the case but in the end, Finnish customers will not have anyone tell them how to use their phones. Just ain't gonna happen.
Belgium may loose the case but in the end, Finnish customers will not have anyone tell them how to use their phones. Just ain't gonna happen.
Except that Nokia is eyeing the same sort of business model as well with their preminet/nokia content discoverer/ovi. Nokia didn't spend $60 million on Loudeye online music store for no reason and they didn't spend a few billion for maps for nothing.
As I said repeatedly --- government rules have nothing to do with what the carriers are going to do and what the general public is willing to accept. Finnish customers may prefer a very cheap locked-up cell phone.
Except that Nokia is eyeing the same sort of business model as well with their preminet/nokia content discoverer/ovi. Nokia didn't spend $60 million on Loudeye online music store for no reason and they didn't spend a few billion for maps for nothing.
As I said repeatedly --- government rules have nothing to do with what the carriers are going to do and what the general public is willing to accept. Finnish customers may prefer a very cheap locked-up cell phone.
I got you there. Ovi is going after itunes. Hopefully it will be moderatley successful and open up the DRM/pricing model.
I would be willing to bet you a pizza that Finns will not go for any locking of their phones. They would rather pay full price and be able to do with them what they please.
Comments
The Belgium case will set the precedent in the European Courts in which Finland must adhere to.
You obviously have no clues about Finns. You can go ask the operators if their big branding campaign was successful or not. People opted to pay full price for a phone rather than have branding crap, and crippled phones. The same will happen here as well. You might see some attempts to lock phones to a network but operators and phone manufacturers know that the subscribers will not go for it. Considering the fact that no contractual deal could be struck between Apple and the operators is proof positive that locked phones will not fly here.
You obviously have no clues about Finns. You can go ask the operators if their big branding campaign was successful or not. People opted to pay full price for a phone rather than have branding crap, and crippled phones. The same will happen here as well. You might see some attempts to lock phones to a network but operators and phone manufacturers know that the subscribers will not go for it. Considering the fact that no contractual deal could be struck between Apple and the operators is proof positive that locked phones will not fly here.
But that's MY point, isn't it?
Whether the carriers would do certain things have nothing to do with these European legal consumer protection frameworks. Without any US government intervention and without any contractual terms obligating American carriers to provide unlocking codes --- American carriers do provide unlocking codes to their customers.
You can have the European Court of Justice striking down the Belgium and Finnish simlocking/anti-bundling laws --- and these Belgium and Finnish carriers may very well still provide unlocked phones to their customers.
But that's MY point, isn't it?
Whether the carriers would do certain things have nothing to do with these European legal consumer protection frameworks. Without any US government intervention and without any contractual terms obligating American carriers to provide unlocking codes --- American carriers do provide unlocking codes to their customers.
You can have the European Court of Justice striking down the Belgium and Finnish simlocking/anti-bundling laws --- and these Belgium and Finnish carriers may very well still provide unlocked phones to their customers.
Who knows?
By the way, any chance you will part with that "study" by the "Finnish" university or should we chalk this up as one of life's unsolved mysteries that can not be verified do to lack of information?
Who knows?
By the way, any chance you will part with that "study" by the "Finnish" university or should we chalk this up as one of life's unsolved mysteries that can not be verified do to lack of information?
I cited the original source on page 2 --- all the information are on the front page of the pdf file.
I cited the original source on page 2 --- all the information are on the front page of the pdf file.
I missed the part about the Finnish study. Can you point this out?
I missed the part about the Finnish study. Can you point this out?
What Finnish study?
I said I cited repeated about an academic paper from a Finnish university --- and I gave the pdf file as my original source.
Here is another 2 Finnish research people from the same Finnish university and gave a seminar powerpoint presentation at the International Telecommunications Society Biennial Conference in Berlin in 2004.
http://www.netlab.hut.fi/tutkimus/le...nen_slides.pdf
What Finnish study?
I said I cited repeated about an academic paper from a Finnish university --- and I gave the pdf file as my original source.
Here is another 2 Finnish research people from the same Finnish university and gave a seminar powerpoint presentation in 2004.
http://www.netlab.hut.fi/tutkimus/le...nen_slides.pdf
It only took 24 hours to get the link.
While waiting for your info, I took the liberty of contacting several colleagues working for the various operators here in Finland and they all agreed that some give away items were part of the mix. DVD players, and such never were as these would cost more than the handset. I did mention your info as well and they too were asking about your source. Now that you posted it, I can forward it on to them.
Anyway, it says that Elisa wants to have SIMlocks put in place, while the other guys don't. Easy to understand. Elisa is bleeding customers to TeliaSonera, and DNA. Two reasons. TeliaSonera has a better network and DNA has cheaper prices. There were some interesting items in this article that appear to be incorrect. Not that this is a reflection on you, but some of his data and conclusions are not true. Anyway, I am going back to get my DVD or digital camera tomorrow.
As for the unlocking issue. If AT&T does it. Who cares? If they don't. Who cares again? Not me because I bought my iPhone and unlocked my self with the help of a very smart guy (Geohot), who seems to be able to kick Apple's and AT&T's butt any time they throw something at him. Belgium may loose the case but in the end, Finnish customers will not have anyone tell them how to use their phones. Just ain't gonna happen.
Belgium may loose the case but in the end, Finnish customers will not have anyone tell them how to use their phones. Just ain't gonna happen.
Except that Nokia is eyeing the same sort of business model as well with their preminet/nokia content discoverer/ovi. Nokia didn't spend $60 million on Loudeye online music store for no reason and they didn't spend a few billion for maps for nothing.
As I said repeatedly --- government rules have nothing to do with what the carriers are going to do and what the general public is willing to accept. Finnish customers may prefer a very cheap locked-up cell phone.
Except that Nokia is eyeing the same sort of business model as well with their preminet/nokia content discoverer/ovi. Nokia didn't spend $60 million on Loudeye online music store for no reason and they didn't spend a few billion for maps for nothing.
As I said repeatedly --- government rules have nothing to do with what the carriers are going to do and what the general public is willing to accept. Finnish customers may prefer a very cheap locked-up cell phone.
I got you there. Ovi is going after itunes. Hopefully it will be moderatley successful and open up the DRM/pricing model.
I would be willing to bet you a pizza that Finns will not go for any locking of their phones. They would rather pay full price and be able to do with them what they please.