(a) Last I checked, Apple was in the Blu-ray camp and we were Apple fans, yes?
We should be partying like the blind fanbois we surely want to be!
(b) I noticed someone said that Toshiba had fought the good fight with a superior product and lost.
Toshiba and others in the HD DVD camp may have provided better players - I for one don't know if this is the case or not as I have been waiting on the sidelines though I would imagine it to be hyberbole, but they did NOT have a superior media format. Blu-ray is better hands down, if only for the fact that it can store more.
HD DVD: 15GB single layer & 30GB dual layer
versus
Blu-ray: 25GB single layer & 50GB dual layer
So now Toshiba can get around to making Blu-ray players.
Won't matter to me though, I wouldn't buy Toshiba anyway.
Super Hi-Vision/Ultra High Defintion at 7680x4320 trumps RED. Check out the image. The audio for this format is 22.2 channels and I recall reading that it currently makes viewers nauseous.
Troll? He was making a valid point. While I wouldn't go as far as calling Jobs a con man, there's no question that he spins apple's present product line as all consumers will ever need. Until apple ships a product, he insists that consumers don't want it and that apple will never do it.
His forward looking statements about products simply can't be taken seriously - they are made to maximize sales, not speak the truth.
What I quoted is what I criticized. I don't have problems with people with different opinions, but there's a line between skepticism and trollishness. The other post crossed that line. Yours doesn't.
As far as what you're saying about his forward-looking statements not being taken seriously, I think you're wrong. It may be that I'm the one who's wrong. Unless one of us is an assistant to Mr Jobs, probably neither of us will ever know for sure.
But go back to the original iMac. He said floppies were dead. He wasn't deceiving us until apple could put something on the market. He said a thing, believed it, then stuck to his decision.
With the iPod, I think it all boils down to timing. Does anybody have an instance of Jobs saying "Nobody wants to see video on an iPod" in the two months prior to the video iPod's release? If so, I'd concede that he knew he was about to make one and was leading people astray. In which case your skepticism is warranted.
My own recollection, though, was that he'd said that a long time before the video iPod came out, and that what happened is that we all kept repeating him over and over up until the day the thing came out.
In which case, it seems like you ought to praise the guy for listening. There's a difference between changing your mind and lying. In the case of the iMac, he was saying floppies are the past; he know people would complain, and they did, but still he knew they were the past so he didn't change his mind. In the case of the iPod, he said "nobody wants..." and then discovered they did. Why does it have to be more sinister than that, is all I'm saying.
As far as trusting forward-looking statements... I dunno. I think the whole point about Apple is that they try not to give you any.
As far as what you're saying about his forward-looking statements not being taken seriously, I think you're wrong. It may be that I'm the one who's wrong. Unless one of us is an assistant to Mr Jobs, probably neither of us will ever know for sure.
Jobs has made plenty of statements that apple would never get into various things.
He knew they would.
We knew they would.
We knew he knew they would.
If you want to believe that he really thinks those things are true when he says them, go ahead and believe.
Apple will get into tons of new things. And until they are announced, Jobs will insist that nobody wants them.
What I quoted is what I criticized. I don't have problems with people with different opinions, but there's a line between skepticism and trollishness. The other post crossed that line. Yours doesn't.
Whether you think someone is being a troll or not, it's best to not use the term directly for risk of getting banned. The only rule here is to abstain from name calling.
Now, you may be able to get around this singular limitation by referring to the comment and not the commenter as being trollish.
Of course, it's company policy never to imply ownership in the event of a dildo. We have to use the indefinite article: "a dildo", never "your dildo".
Don't be so smug. It'll be good riddance Blu-ray sooner than you think. Now that Apple has downloadable HD movies , this is only the beginning. There should be a total convergence of HD over the internet in five years at which time the general public will finally have HDTVs and skip Blu-ray enitirely. People are not going to double dip their collections for yet another format that will eventually loose to downloads.
Maybe by 2015, but I doubt it will kill the format before that, and possibly not even then, though sales could slow down.
You don't HAVE to be such a troll, do you? I don't guess it's ever occurred to you that Steve Jobs is simply a man who speaks his mind. He's strongly opinionated, and he's not shy of throwing his opinions around. He's successful NOT because he's a con man, but because his insights are usually extraordinary.
I tend to think of myself as a sarcastic elf who speaks him mind. And just like Jobs, I have strong opinions and don't have a problem speaking them. Sorry, but I don't see Jobs' extraordinary insights.
Salesman. Con man. It's all about the same. Jobs says whatever he thinks will sell his products. Jobs is trying to push digital media via iTunes so he says the competing optical media is on its way to being obsolete.
Quote:
Unlike the psycho you seem to think he is, he also pays very sharp attention to the market. He said he didn't think people wanted to watch video on a tiny screen. I imagine he believed it. Hell, so did I. But a ton of people were running around saying that they DID want to watch video on an iPod. So Apple made one.
Then where was this great insight Jobs has? Basically he gave in to market pressure and created an iPod that plays video from what I get from what you said. Heck, I even have a 5th gen video playing iPod and considering how it plays video less than .1% of the time it's used, for me Jobs was right.
Quote:
Why has have you got to draw such asinine and frankly loony conclusions like "I guess if Steve said breathing oxygen was antiquated we could expect to find you dead from suffocation the next morning"??
In case you didn't bother to actually read the post I was replying to, it seemed to that the writer had this blind faith in everything Jobs says. The Jobs Reality Distortion Field. Thus my point about bringing up Jobs comment on video iPods. Just because Steve says it doesn't make it the gospel truth.
Quote:
He's also made statements about downloads vs Blu-Ray. He might be wrong. But he's right more than he's wrong. That's the reason people are fans of Apple. Not because of some creepy cult thing. But because Apple does really cool things, with innovations that go far deeper than just eye-candy.
Thing is, there are numerous people that make it feel like a creepy cult thing (just go over to the Apple love-fest shrine RoughlyDrafted that this site now likes to link to). And you're not really doing much to combat that cult image. All I did was point out that Jobs often says one thing and does another and you go off on a tirade. Video on iPods. Writing real software for the iPhone ("We have this great way to write programs for the iPhone, web apps!! No, wait a minute, I mean we have an SDK on the way."). And I expect Blu-Ray will be Jobs' next turnabout: "Optical discs are going out of style, but just in case, enjoy our new Mac Pros with Blu-Ray burners standard!"
Now like a good troll, I'll crawl back under the bridge and wait for some passerby's to scare (hope this iMac is waterproof)...
And I expect Blu-Ray will be Jobs' next turnabout: "Optical discs are going out of style, but just in case, enjoy our new Mac Pros with Blu-Ray burners standard!"
LOL, no doubt. I thought the exact same thing once I heard that the format war had ended:
Stevie J (in his 'wow, this is awesome' voice):
Fifty... GIGS... of... storage, per disc. Right on your Mac!!
You gotta love Steve, there'd be no Apple without him, but the guy can sell ice water to Eskimos, and that's for a reason.
I'm not tech-spec qualified to vouch for superiority of one format over another, but the one thing that was decidedly in Toshiba's favor in the early days was the HUGE point that HD DVDs could be manufactured in existing DVD manufacturing facilities, with little change in the lines and equipment investment; Blu-Ray supposedly required a new plant process altogether. I wish I had a dollar for every discussion I heard about how the major studios would favor the cheaper and faster delivery of existing multi-plant manufacturing over huge investment and startup costs of a single Blu-Ray production facility.
I guess that didn't turn out.
I'm not concerned about that. It didn't really matter. New tech always cost more in the beginning. Whether or not Toshiba pulled out, BD players would have continued to come down in price.
Look at this, when the players first came out, the cheapest BD player was $1,000, and the cheapest HD-DVD player was $500.
Now, except for the firesale pricing by Toshiba, the cheapest BD player is $300, and the cheapest HD-DVD was $200.
Where do you expect it would have been next holiday? BD players at $200, and HD-DVD at $150?
Both coming down in price, with BD dropping much faster. Next year, they would have been about the same.
Don't get banned like that mdotdubz guy (or whatever his name was) just yesterday.
All he did was call ppl idiot and loser, nothing worse, but he did it consistently enough to get his ass canned by the mods. My guess is that "tiny brain" and loser will get it done for you too, if you keep it up.
What is up with people using "then" instead of "than"? Is it a typo or deliberate?
I'm sure it's just a typo. The lackadaisical nature of internet conversations, whether it be IMs, email or forum-based seems to promote casual expressions that mimic homonymic spoken language. While we mean "less than" in the statement above, we tend to actually say "less then".
Personally, I could care less so long as I know what the heck is being expressed and it doesn't fall into "leetspeak" argot. AI posters are pretty good compared to most sites in this respect.
Does anybody know the answer to this: when somebody like George Lucas films a movie in digital, what resolution are they filming? Is this it?
For all intents and purposes, yes, George Lucas & Co. do shoot in around 4k resolution... but high resolution digital video has existed for a while now... it's just that until Red, the technology was far out of reach for most people both in terms of cost of the camera but also cost and ease of editing such high res. video.
Comments
...but I still haven't forgiven him for thinking the hockey-puck mouse that came with the Bondi-blue G3 PM was a good idea...
Oh God, yeah. What a POS that thing was.
.
We should be partying like the blind fanbois we surely want to be!
(b) I noticed someone said that Toshiba had fought the good fight with a superior product and lost.
Toshiba and others in the HD DVD camp may have provided better players - I for one don't know if this is the case or not as I have been waiting on the sidelines though I would imagine it to be hyberbole, but they did NOT have a superior media format. Blu-ray is better hands down, if only for the fact that it can store more.
HD DVD: 15GB single layer & 30GB dual layer
versus
Blu-ray: 25GB single layer & 50GB dual layer
So now Toshiba can get around to making Blu-ray players.
Won't matter to me though, I wouldn't buy Toshiba anyway.
(
So now Toshiba can get around to making Blu-ray players.
Won't matter to me though, I wouldn't buy Toshiba anyway.
They said they don't want to.
They're busy falling on swords and stuff.
UHDV: the RED camera http://www.red.com/cameras/technology
Super Hi-Vision/Ultra High Defintion at 7680x4320 trumps RED. Check out the image. The audio for this format is 22.2 channels and I recall reading that it currently makes viewers nauseous.
They said they don't want to.
They're busy falling on swords and stuff.
Good God. 4520 X 2540. I'd heard about this.
Does anybody know the answer to this: when somebody like George Lucas films a movie in digital, what resolution are they filming? Is this it?
Wikipedia, as usual, has all the tech-related answers.
Troll? He was making a valid point. While I wouldn't go as far as calling Jobs a con man, there's no question that he spins apple's present product line as all consumers will ever need. Until apple ships a product, he insists that consumers don't want it and that apple will never do it.
His forward looking statements about products simply can't be taken seriously - they are made to maximize sales, not speak the truth.
What I quoted is what I criticized. I don't have problems with people with different opinions, but there's a line between skepticism and trollishness. The other post crossed that line. Yours doesn't.
As far as what you're saying about his forward-looking statements not being taken seriously, I think you're wrong. It may be that I'm the one who's wrong. Unless one of us is an assistant to Mr Jobs, probably neither of us will ever know for sure.
But go back to the original iMac. He said floppies were dead. He wasn't deceiving us until apple could put something on the market. He said a thing, believed it, then stuck to his decision.
With the iPod, I think it all boils down to timing. Does anybody have an instance of Jobs saying "Nobody wants to see video on an iPod" in the two months prior to the video iPod's release? If so, I'd concede that he knew he was about to make one and was leading people astray. In which case your skepticism is warranted.
My own recollection, though, was that he'd said that a long time before the video iPod came out, and that what happened is that we all kept repeating him over and over up until the day the thing came out.
In which case, it seems like you ought to praise the guy for listening. There's a difference between changing your mind and lying. In the case of the iMac, he was saying floppies are the past; he know people would complain, and they did, but still he knew they were the past so he didn't change his mind. In the case of the iPod, he said "nobody wants..." and then discovered they did. Why does it have to be more sinister than that, is all I'm saying.
As far as trusting forward-looking statements... I dunno. I think the whole point about Apple is that they try not to give you any.
As far as what you're saying about his forward-looking statements not being taken seriously, I think you're wrong. It may be that I'm the one who's wrong. Unless one of us is an assistant to Mr Jobs, probably neither of us will ever know for sure.
Jobs has made plenty of statements that apple would never get into various things.
He knew they would.
We knew they would.
We knew he knew they would.
If you want to believe that he really thinks those things are true when he says them, go ahead and believe.
Apple will get into tons of new things. And until they are announced, Jobs will insist that nobody wants them.
What I quoted is what I criticized. I don't have problems with people with different opinions, but there's a line between skepticism and trollishness. The other post crossed that line. Yours doesn't.
Whether you think someone is being a troll or not, it's best to not use the term directly for risk of getting banned. The only rule here is to abstain from name calling.
Now, you may be able to get around this singular limitation by referring to the comment and not the commenter as being trollish.
Don't be so smug. It'll be good riddance Blu-ray sooner than you think. Now that Apple has downloadable HD movies , this is only the beginning. There should be a total convergence of HD over the internet in five years at which time the general public will finally have HDTVs and skip Blu-ray enitirely. People are not going to double dip their collections for yet another format that will eventually loose to downloads.
Maybe by 2015, but I doubt it will kill the format before that, and possibly not even then, though sales could slow down.
You don't HAVE to be such a troll, do you? I don't guess it's ever occurred to you that Steve Jobs is simply a man who speaks his mind. He's strongly opinionated, and he's not shy of throwing his opinions around. He's successful NOT because he's a con man, but because his insights are usually extraordinary.
I tend to think of myself as a sarcastic elf who speaks him mind. And just like Jobs, I have strong opinions and don't have a problem speaking them. Sorry, but I don't see Jobs' extraordinary insights.
Salesman. Con man. It's all about the same. Jobs says whatever he thinks will sell his products. Jobs is trying to push digital media via iTunes so he says the competing optical media is on its way to being obsolete.
Unlike the psycho you seem to think he is, he also pays very sharp attention to the market. He said he didn't think people wanted to watch video on a tiny screen. I imagine he believed it. Hell, so did I. But a ton of people were running around saying that they DID want to watch video on an iPod. So Apple made one.
Then where was this great insight Jobs has? Basically he gave in to market pressure and created an iPod that plays video from what I get from what you said. Heck, I even have a 5th gen video playing iPod and considering how it plays video less than .1% of the time it's used, for me Jobs was right.
Why has have you got to draw such asinine and frankly loony conclusions like "I guess if Steve said breathing oxygen was antiquated we could expect to find you dead from suffocation the next morning"??
In case you didn't bother to actually read the post I was replying to, it seemed to that the writer had this blind faith in everything Jobs says. The Jobs Reality Distortion Field. Thus my point about bringing up Jobs comment on video iPods. Just because Steve says it doesn't make it the gospel truth.
He's also made statements about downloads vs Blu-Ray. He might be wrong. But he's right more than he's wrong. That's the reason people are fans of Apple. Not because of some creepy cult thing. But because Apple does really cool things, with innovations that go far deeper than just eye-candy.
Thing is, there are numerous people that make it feel like a creepy cult thing (just go over to the Apple love-fest shrine RoughlyDrafted that this site now likes to link to). And you're not really doing much to combat that cult image. All I did was point out that Jobs often says one thing and does another and you go off on a tirade. Video on iPods. Writing real software for the iPhone ("We have this great way to write programs for the iPhone, web apps!! No, wait a minute, I mean we have an SDK on the way."). And I expect Blu-Ray will be Jobs' next turnabout: "Optical discs are going out of style, but just in case, enjoy our new Mac Pros with Blu-Ray burners standard!"
Now like a good troll, I'll crawl back under the bridge and wait for some passerby's to scare (hope this iMac is waterproof)...
And I expect Blu-Ray will be Jobs' next turnabout: "Optical discs are going out of style, but just in case, enjoy our new Mac Pros with Blu-Ray burners standard!"
LOL, no doubt. I thought the exact same thing once I heard that the format war had ended:
Stevie J (in his 'wow, this is awesome' voice):
Fifty... GIGS... of... storage, per disc. Right on your Mac!!
You gotta love Steve, there'd be no Apple without him, but the guy can sell ice water to Eskimos, and that's for a reason.
.
I'm not tech-spec qualified to vouch for superiority of one format over another, but the one thing that was decidedly in Toshiba's favor in the early days was the HUGE point that HD DVDs could be manufactured in existing DVD manufacturing facilities, with little change in the lines and equipment investment; Blu-Ray supposedly required a new plant process altogether. I wish I had a dollar for every discussion I heard about how the major studios would favor the cheaper and faster delivery of existing multi-plant manufacturing over huge investment and startup costs of a single Blu-Ray production facility.
I guess that didn't turn out.
I'm not concerned about that. It didn't really matter. New tech always cost more in the beginning. Whether or not Toshiba pulled out, BD players would have continued to come down in price.
Look at this, when the players first came out, the cheapest BD player was $1,000, and the cheapest HD-DVD player was $500.
Now, except for the firesale pricing by Toshiba, the cheapest BD player is $300, and the cheapest HD-DVD was $200.
Where do you expect it would have been next holiday? BD players at $200, and HD-DVD at $150?
Both coming down in price, with BD dropping much faster. Next year, they would have been about the same.
Good God. 4520 X 2540. I'd heard about this.
Does anybody know the answer to this: when somebody like George Lucas films a movie in digital, what resolution are they filming? Is this it?
He was filming first in 1980 x 1080p, but he moved from that.
This is for theatrical release, it won't make it into homes for ages.
The next move is to 1440p, which will be done in late 2009, for possible release in 2010.
Don't get banned like that mdotdubz guy (or whatever his name was) just yesterday.
All he did was call ppl idiot and loser, nothing worse, but he did it consistently enough to get his ass canned by the mods. My guess is that "tiny brain" and loser will get it done for you too, if you keep it up.
Not hating, just watchin' out for ya.
.
Thank you Mr. Baggins. My apologies to the board.
How big is your screen and how far away from it do you sit when watching video content?
34 inches, and he, no doubt, watches from 15 feet.
He was filming first in 1980 x 1080p, but he moved from that.
This is for theatrical release, it won't make it into homes for ages.
The next move is to 1440p, which will be done in late 2009, for possible release in 2010.
Oh great so were just gunna have to hear 'Eriamjh' yell at us saying that he wont settle for anything less then 1440p and calling 1080 inferior
anything less then 1440p and calling 1080 inferior
What is up with people using "then" instead of "than"? Is it a typo or deliberate?
What is up with people using "then" instead of "than"? Is it a typo or deliberate?
I'm sure it's just a typo. The lackadaisical nature of internet conversations, whether it be IMs, email or forum-based seems to promote casual expressions that mimic homonymic spoken language. While we mean "less than" in the statement above, we tend to actually say "less then".
Personally, I could care less so long as I know what the heck is being expressed and it doesn't fall into "leetspeak" argot. AI posters are pretty good compared to most sites in this respect.
$0|_1|*5][$|\\/| FTW
Good God. 4520 X 2540. I'd heard about this.
Does anybody know the answer to this: when somebody like George Lucas films a movie in digital, what resolution are they filming? Is this it?
For all intents and purposes, yes, George Lucas & Co. do shoot in around 4k resolution... but high resolution digital video has existed for a while now... it's just that until Red, the technology was far out of reach for most people both in terms of cost of the camera but also cost and ease of editing such high res. video.